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[Thirty7ven]

Well we can see when later this year we get Forza and star field and then judge the quality of them games

It’s not about the quality of the games, it’s about the size of the audience that buys games and publishers can compete for.

Gamepass is great for MS, bad for premium releases (full price games). Right now third party publishers don’t care because PlayStation is once again running away with the generation.

 

[phil_t98]

It’s not about the quality of the games, it’s about the size of the audience that buys games and publishers can compete for.

Gamepass is great for MS, bad for premium releases (full price games). Right now third party publishers don’t care because PlayStation is once again running away with the generation.

it depends how big gamepass goes I guess, the more money it makes the more people will want a slice of that pie

 

[GHG]

Mixer and GFWL aren't the only examples of this, it also happened to zune and windows phone.

And to people saying the activision acquisition makes this scenario unlikely, it was the Nokia acquisition that ultimately killed the windows phone division. With more investment comes more scrutiny and expectation. If the activision acquisition doesn't bear fruit then serious questions will be asked.

 

[ManaByte]

it was the Nokia acquisition that ultimately killed the windows phone division.

No it wasn’t. It was MS stubbornly trying to make their own mobile OS to compete with iOS and Android. Nokia was just for the hardware. It was the software and the rejection of the OS by app makers that killed it.

 

[Drizzlehell]

No it wasn’t. It was MS stubbornly trying to make their own mobile OS to compete with iOS and Android. Nokia was just for the hardware. It was the software and the rejection of the OS by app makers that killed it.

More like the fact that nobody wanted these phones, and Nokia acquisition was a marketing move more than anything. Idk, maybe they looked at all of those "indestructible Nokia 3310" memes and thought that people are suddenly gonna start buying Windows phones or something. Bottom line, they paid lots of money, the strategy failed, so they pulled the plug.

Just like it has a potential of happening it the current strategy of studio acquisitions and Game Pass won't turn a profit. Only at least with Xbox the brand is much stronger so the likeliness of that scenario is lower.

 

[M1chl]

Mixer? I mean they got the tech from it, which is used in their Teams and xCloud, so it wasn't really a flop. Like the stream platform was, but it was still by far the best streaming quality I've seen.

 

[ManaByte]

More like the fact that nobody wanted these phones, and Nokia acquisition was a marketing move more than anything. Idk, maybe they looked at all of those "indestructible Nokia 3310" memes and thought that people are suddenly gonna start buying Windows phones or something. Bottom line, they paid lots of money, the strategy failed, so they pulled the plug.

Just like it has a potential of happening it the current strategy of studio acquisitions and Game Pass won't turn a profit. Only at least with Xbox the brand is much stronger so the likeliness of that scenario is lower.

You completely have ignored the explanation as to why Windows Phone flopped for your own made up fantasy. MS has a phone now, the Surface Duo, which runs on Android instead of their own Phone OS. If the Nokia phones were Android phones they’d still be around.

 

[Fuz]

Gamepass is the future, so it makes sense for MS to invest in that model. Cloud is the same to

Stop with this crap.

 

[Fuz]

Sure, because I fantasize about my Xbox account getting nuked and me losing all those digital games that I bought for that console.

I wish this happened and sober up people before it's too late.

 

[Three]

No it wasn’t. It was MS stubbornly trying to make their own mobile OS to compete with iOS and Android. Nokia was just for the hardware. It was the software and the rejection of the OS by app makers that killed it.

He isn't saying that without the Nokia acquisition WP would have been fine. More that it ultimately ended with a big acquisition.

 

[GHG]

No it wasn’t. It was MS stubbornly trying to make their own mobile OS to compete with iOS and Android. Nokia was just for the hardware. It was the software and the rejection of the OS by app makers that killed it.

Nothing stubborn about wanting to provide competition to the mobile OS industry. At the time I very much preferred the windows phone experience compared to the alternatives. They purchased Nokia for a number of reasons but at the time it was very much seen as a "hail Mary" for the windows phone division and one that ultimately didn't pay off.

If the activision deal doesn't pay off and results in them needing to make sweeping changes are you going to say that Xbox hardware was a "stubborn" endeavor and that they should just be a 3rd party provider to playstation and Nintendo?

 

[diffusionx]

The chance that MS is still working on unprofitable stuff is 100%, obviously, if they knew "X" was unprofitable they would kill it. People overestimate the competence of these big companies and what it takes to get approval for major investments that end up being horrible.

The streaming business is not what people thought it was even 2-3 years ago. Bob Iger is out there saying that they need to rethink it totally to turn a profit, and he is the guy who greenlighted the FOX acquisition for $71 billion... to bolster his streaming service. Now obviously the game streaming is not totally analogous to the tv/movie streaming business but I doubt MS execs saw Bob saying that and were reassured with their decisions.

 

[Drizzlehell]

I wish this happened and sober up people before it's too late.

Yeah, it's a big enough brand that its failure would be sure to wake people up. Even Stadia's closure was pretty big news and probably soured the overall view on cloud streaming. And it wasn't even that popular to begin with.

But then again, Xbox is too big to fail completely. It's more likely that they would simply change strategy. Maybe start investing in first party IPs again and ditch the whole Game Pass thing.

 

[onQ123]

Sometimes it's not about buying a company to make it successful sometimes you just need to take it off the market so your competition can't get it & become more successful .

 

[Ozriel]

I don't want to derail the thread. Just look at actual sales trackers please and show me the games selling, I don't want to get into sales estimates from steam reviews, when you can just look at NPD which includes steam sales.

Sea of Thieves sale number was released officially. 5 million by December 2021.

Sure, I’ve pointed you to Steam estimates for the others, but they consistently show up in Steam’s Platinum or Gold bestseller tier. And it’s easy enough to infer relative performance from that.

It's funny you're going back to 5 years ago when gamepass had far fewer users and day one was only just started that year.

5 years? Sea of Thieves released June 2020 on Steam. Don’t be loud and wrong

FH5 launched 2021.

Comparing FH5 to R&C is the worst of them all. As if that is some massive accomplishment. A game on 3 platforms with big install base vs R&C launching on 1 platform near platform launch where install base is really low. I would absolutely expect it to sell more even if it weren't but you're clutching at straws there.

I’m not comparing vs Ratchet and Clank to make any sort of statement about ‘accomplishments’. Stop projecting. The inference I thought you would get is that even with day one Gamepass, and being relatively similar to the previous version, it still outsold another well marketed AAA game without the GamePass baggage.

You were the one making the claim that GamePass games don’t sell at all.

 

[ManaByte]

If the activision deal doesn't pay off and results in them needing to make sweeping changes are you going to say that Xbox hardware was a "stubborn" endeavor and that they should just be a 3rd party provider to playstation and Nintendo?

No, that’s what this thread is. There are people with some demented fantasy that MS is going to end their console division. We keep getting this same thread over and over. It’s Xbox Derangement Syndrome.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Regarding big acquisitions, the problem MS does is they often buy the 3rd or 4th player on the market and hope they can power it up to #1 or #2. Hard to do.

Activision is the top third party maker, so we'll see how it goes. When they peeled out big money for Linked in it was the #1 career networking site. Still is. Success.

My company buys up brands too sometimes. But only when they are #1 or #2 in marketshare in the products they play in. I think Jack Welsh said the same thing when he was at GE. If his brands arent #1 or #2, might be worth avoiding or selling it off.

 

[Thirty7ven]

No, that’s what this thread is. There are people with some demented fantasy that MS is going to end their console division. We keep getting this same thread over and over. It’s Xbox Derangement Syndrome.

It's perfectly reasonable to see a future where Xbox console no longer makes sense for MS. If Gamepass and Xcloud are to become the main drivers, on PC and other devices, then suddenly losing money on a console to drive subscriptions doesn't make sense.

The thing that Xbox fans like you cling to the most, that MS no longer cares about Xbox console sales, is ultimately the exact same reasoning that can lead MS to not need Xbox console period.

Don't know why you are scared about it either, after all.... it doesn't matter if you are playing their games on Xbox console right?

 

[adamsapple]

No, that’s what this thread is. There are people with some demented fantasy that MS is going to end their console division. We keep getting this same thread over and over. It’s Xbox Derangement Syndrome.

I expect the frequency of MS/Xbox doom threads to increase as the Activision acquisition draws to a closure.

And also to see the same 3, 4 user names in those threads to rehash the same talking points over and over.

 

[Three]

And it’s easy enough to infer relative performance from that.

The steam numbers are included in the sales trackers why not use them when talking about relative performance?

5 years? Sea of Thieves released June 2020 on Steam. Don’t be loud and wrong

I mean, it's cute that you're clinging on to steam to make me "loud and wrong" but Sea of Theives is a 2018 game. As is FH4 that you mentioned.

FH5 launched 2021.



I’m not comparing vs Ratchet and Clank to make any sort of statement about ‘accomplishments’. Stop projecting. The inference I thought you would get is that even with day one Gamepass, and being relatively similar to the previous version, it still outsold another well marketed AAA game without the GamePass baggage.

You were the one making the claim that GamePass games don’t sell at all.

You didn't mention FH5 sales because you have no data there. That's not part of the 5yr old games I'm talking about. I was referring to SoT and FH4.

You're using R&C in a comparison when it was likely to sell very few copies near PS5 launch being a smaller PS5 only game. You're comparing that to one of the biggest MS releases on Xbox one, Xbox series and PC to qualify it as selling well relatively. The reality is that game sales are low with everywhere it released due to the gamepass effect. Nobody said they literally don't sell at all, don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

No, that’s what this thread is. There are people with some demented fantasy that MS is going to end their console division. We keep getting this same thread over and over. It’s Xbox Derangement Syndrome.

To be fair, MS have been making decisions that lowers the value of their console, like releasing games day and date on PC and gamepass, so of course people will speculate if they are slowly phasing it out.

 

[ManaByte]

To be fair, MS have been making decisions that lowers the value of their console, like releasing games day and date on PC and gamepass, so of course people will speculate if they are slowly phasing it out.

Adding more people to the Xbox ecosystem suddenly translates to MS killing off Xbox to console warriors detached from logic.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I expect the frequency of MS/Xbox doom threads to increase as the Activision acquisition draws to a closure.

And also to see the same 3, 4 user names in those threads to rehash the same talking points over and over.

Do console sales matter or not?

 

[mrmustard]

They tried to get a piece from the cake, but were too late just like with Windows Phones. Actually they were also too late for the console market, but they keep trying.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Adding more people to the Xbox ecosystem suddenly translates to MS killing off Xbox to console warriors detached from logic.

Bro, if they release all their games on PC, why would anyone with a PC buy a Xbox?

They are adding people to the ecosystem by sacrificing their potential console audience.

Doesn't seem like something someone would do if they want to sell consoles.

 

[Beer Baelly]

MS did the right thing quitting that freakshow.

 

[adamsapple]

Do console sales matter or not?

OP is not talking about console sales, OP is talking about an unfounded fear or MS shutting down their entire gaming division, which extends to multiple other venues beyond strictly console sales.

My main concern here is that one day we're gonna wake up to the news that Microsoft pulled the plug with some bullshit corporate statement apologizing to everyone, because they've had enough of Phil Spencer and Game Pass because it never made them any money. And then all of that blood, sweat, and tears (and money) that you invested in on your Xbox account is gonna go down the drain, just like when it did on GFWL. Just like it did with Mixer.

 

[Bond007]

Not that i would want XBX to close its doors- but you gotta think what this would look like on the digital front of purchasing games if it were to ever happen to any console maker. Sure, the storefront would remain for while, but not longterm.
Makes me even more attached to my discs.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It's perfectly reasonable to see a future where Xbox console no longer makes sense for MS. If Gamepass and Xcloud are to become the main drivers, on PC and other devices, then suddenly losing money on a console to drive subscriptions doesn't make sense.

The thing that Xbox fans like you cling to the most, that MS no longer cares about Xbox console sales, is ultimately the exact same reasoning that can lead MS to not need Xbox console period.

Don't know why you are scared about it either, after all.... it doesn't matter if you are playing their games on Xbox console right?

If MS dumps consoles down the line and all they have is software and subs to go on, why are people s scared then? Similar to Sega, MS will unleash all their games on every platform.

 

[Thirty7ven]

OP is not talking about console sales, OP is talking about an unfounded fear or MS shutting down their entire gaming division, which extends to multiple other venues beyond strictly console sales.

Well that’s never ever going to happen. I thought it was about the games you own on console and the fear of losing them if they decided selling consoles were no longer the strategy for them.

 

[Three]

Bro, if they release all their games on PC, why would anyone with a PC buy a Xbox?

They are adding people to the ecosystem by sacrificing their potential console audience.

Doesn't seem like something someone would do if they want to sell consoles.

Do console sales matter or not?

They're stuck between a rock and a hard place on messaging:

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/nov/11/xbox-phil-spencer-interview-microsoft-series-x

They said it didn't matter before and that it wasn't something they were that invested in but they've certainly changed their tune since then. I don't know how much of it is driven by trying to paint a picture of being unable to compete for regulators now though or just owning up to a truth they knew.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Bro, if they release all their games on PC, why would anyone with a PC buy a Xbox?

They are adding people to the ecosystem by sacrificing their potential console audience.

Doesn't seem like something someone would do if they want to sell consoles.

Because there's always an audience for consoles.

Why does Sony release all their hit games on PC?

 

[Ozriel]

The steam numbers are included in the sales trackers why not use them when talking about relative performance?

I mean, it's cute that you're clinging on to steam to make me "loud and wrong" but Sea of Theives is a 2018 game. As is FH4 that you mentioned.

Sea of Thieves released on Steam in June 2020, and the Five Million unit sales counts from June 2020. It has three years of sales tracking on that Platform. 'five years old' makes no sense.

Sea of Thieves celebrates five million Steam sales with a limited-time giveaway

Sea of Thieves has sold five million units on Steam alone

www.pcgamesn.com

The PC GamePass release in the Windows Store has been up since 2018. And yet SoT still sold 5 million copies in 1.5 years on Steam.

You didn't mention FH5 sales because you have no data there. That's not part of the 5yr old games I'm talking about. I was referring to SoT and FH4.

Yes, I don't have the data. But at least we know that FH5 outsold games like Resident Evil Village, Days Gone (PC), It Takes Two, Deathloop and Outriders on Steam. We know it was 4th in November NPD behind only launch month sales of COD Vanguard, BF 2042 and Pokemon.
We also know from this quote:

“Forza Horizon 5 set a new Forza franchise launch month sales record — including both Forza Horizon and Forza Motorsport titles — while ranking as the 4th best-selling game of November 2021,” said Piscatella. “Forza Horizon 5 was the No. 3 best-selling game on Xbox platforms in the month.”

That despite being on Gamepass day one, FH5 sold more in its first month than any other Forza product ever.
You should really have chosen an easier title to downplay.

You're using R&C in a comparison when it was likely to sell very few copies near PS5 launch being a smaller PS5 only game. You're comparing that to one of the biggest MS releases on Xbox one, Xbox series and PC to qualify it as selling well relatively. The reality is that game sales are low with everywhere it released due to the gamepass effect. Nobody said they literally don't sell at all, don't put words in my mouth.

I think we've pretty much debunked this point already. And it's a well known fact that - thanks to the issues with the Windows Store - Steam sales aren't as drastically affected by PC Gamepass. Despite a November released, Forza Horizon 5 ended up in Steam's highest tier Platinum category for new releases, and in the 'Gold' tier for overall games.

I'm not saying Gamepass isn't dampening retail sales. Far from it. But good games will always sell well, despite GamePass.

 

[bluecowboys]

Xbox series consoles is MS fastest selling consoles without ABK deal going through. Once it goes through and all COD games and future blizzard games go exclusive it will only increase their market share.

Also, MS leverages PC and Cloud gaming as well to get more users.

Sorry, but Xbox isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[feynoob]

There goes a meaningful discussion

 

[In Cold Blood]

Meh, Xbox is here to stay.
Microsoft has just spent just under 80 Billion Dollars in game studios and IPs, which once ABK goes through makes them the biggest publisher in the world, with the most valuable gaming IPs under one roof.

It's all about the games. If Xbox has all those IPs exclusive to Xbox, and the ones that are multiplatform are day and date into Gamepass, it will become undeniable.

The PS3 was a cluster fuck in all regards.
Too expensive, a year late, shit first party game support for the first 2 years, woeful multiplatform comparisons, and Sony was on the way down.
Sony, however, doubled down on creating amazing first-party games for the platform, and this is what turned it around for them at the end.
To think the same won't happen with Xbox once the exclusives start dropping, and the console are in stock everywhere, is laughable.

 

[Three]

Sea of Thieves released on Steam in June 2020, and the Five Million unit sales counts from June 2020. It has three years of sales tracking on that Platform. 'five years old' makes no sense.

http://[URL][URL][URL][URL][URL][UR...n.com/sea-of-thieves/five-million-steam-sales

[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]



The PC GamePass release in the Windows Store has been up since 2018. And yet SoT still sold 5 million copies in 1.5 years on Steam.

It makes sense if you're talking about the games age, I didn't know you were referring to steam sales specifically. I can certainly see fewer steam people on GP than I can with xbox.

Yes, I don't have the data. But at least we know that FH5 outsold games like Resident Evil Village, Days Gone (PC), It Takes Two, Deathloop and Outriders on Steam. We know it was 4th in November NPD behind only launch month sales of COD Vanguard, BF 2042 and Pokemon.
We also know from this quote:

What's with the fascination of steam numbers only? Resident Evil Village for example was 8th for the year according to NPD, FH5 was 20th. FH5 was below Back 4 Blood and Far Cry 6. The fact that you're resorting to It Takes 2 and Days gone (on steam yrs late) should tell you everything. Outriders was a gamepass game too. FH5 is one of MS' biggest releases in comparison.

That despite being on Gamepass day one, FH5 sold more in its first month than any other Forza product ever.
You should really have chosen an easier title to downplay.

What are you on about? I'm not the one who brought up FH5 in the first place to boast about sales against R&C of all things. Weirdly the fact that this particular Forza was on steam in the first month at launch unlike previous entries plays no part in this fact for you now.

I think we've pretty much debunked this point already. And it's a well known fact that - thanks to the issues with the Windows Store - Steam sales aren't as drastically affected by PC Gamepass. Despite a November released, Forza Horizon 5 ended up in Steam's highest tier Platinum category for new releases, and in the 'Gold' tier for overall games.

I'm not saying Gamepass isn't dampening retail sales. Far from it. But good games will always sell well, despite GamePass.

Despite a November release? November is a huge month. Yes those on steam are less affected but overall and especially regarding xbox they are not selling much relatively. You can see this in sales trackers.

 

[DarkMage619]

It's perfectly reasonable to see a future where Xbox console no longer makes sense for MS. If Gamepass and Xcloud are to become the main drivers, on PC and other devices, then suddenly losing money on a console to drive subscriptions doesn't make sense.

The thing that Xbox fans like you cling to the most, that MS no longer cares about Xbox console sales, is ultimately the exact same reasoning that can lead MS to not need Xbox console period.

Don't know why you are scared about it either, after all.... it doesn't matter if you are playing their games on Xbox console right?

You realize that their cloud blades are based on the XSX right? Also console is one of the easiest ways for a customer to access Game pass. Why would it make sense to remove avenues to Game pass and expect success? Pretty sure PlayStation and Nintendo will not allow Game pass so dropping console would make things worse for MS. I don't think Xbox customers are advocating MS to drop consoles so we have to really look at who is calling for that action. Console sales do matter just less so for Xbox than the other companies who only have consoles to access their respective ecosystems.

 

[Lasha]

I’ve always really struggled to see how they get gamespass profitable. It’s expensive to run, it’s expensive to licence third party games to it, especially day one titles, marketing is also expensive, developing first party titles is very expensive. Even excluding the cost of the acquisitions it’s barely profitable. If you throw in what will it be after acti? 95bn ish? Whilst taking on all the staff for those studios. Longer term it also programs an entire generation of gamers to NEVER buy games on xbox. Right now it’s a mixed bag, it’s hurting game purchases but also providing marketing and mindshare for those games and there’s plenty of gamers outside of gamespass. 5-10 years from now all the 13 year olds playing now will have always just had all their games “for free” they won’t be buying games. So I really don’t see how it doesn’t crumble under its own weight never mind recouping the crazy cost of the acquisitions.

Their ai investments whilst currently openAi is burning through cast at a crazy rate I do expect to flip to being very profitable and in turn profitable for microsoft.

Gamepass profit increases as Microsoft buys more studios. Microsoft can toss all previous COD games on gamepass to boost the library with zero marginal cost while taking in profit from the current COD games. The more IP owned by Microsoft the easier it is to make GP profitable.

Scale is what you aren't grasping. Microsoft would love for all of it's players to stop buying games in favor of gamepass. An annual gamepass subscription generates more revenue for Microsoft than what they get from a typical user who buys 1-2 games per year. The revenue generated by gamepass at 25 million subscribers is enough to fully fund 30 or so AAA games per year alone while still making a profit. That's before any actual sales of games. Before any mtx or dlc. There's a reason Sony followed suit with its own version of the service. The potential is quite massive if you have deep enough pockets to get the ball rolling.

 

[Captain Toad]

Gamepass is the future, so it makes sense for MS to invest in that model.

 

[bluecowboys]

It is the future for AAA games because it is so expensive to make. Not to mention average user only buys 2 new AAA game a year.

 

[diffusionx]

Gamepass profit increases as Microsoft buys more studios. Microsoft can toss all previous COD games on gamepass to boost the library with zero marginal cost while taking in profit from the current COD games. The more IP owned by Microsoft the easier it is to make GP profitable.

This was the theory behind video streaming for a long time, hence Netflix borrowing like $10 billion to make new content, the race to IP, again Disney buying FOX. The more content you have the more valuable and attractive your service is. Turns out it is NOT TRUE! And the streamers are learning this the hard way. And it is arguably less true of videogame streaming than TV streaming because videogames require a significant time investment that TV/movies do not. In fact I think most people would rather gravitate to one or two games than sample endless amounts of stuff. If I only play one game then GamePass makes no sense. It's cheaper to just buy the game outright than pay GamePass.

 

[feynoob]

You would have a point, if Sony didn't upgrade their service.
Their service is more like gamepass, minus day1 games. And it will be a matter of time, before they do day1 games, considering they are dropping their 1st party games in the first 1-2 year (forbidden west).

 

[Lasha]

This was the theory behind video streaming for a long time, hence Netflix borrowing like $10 billion to make new content, the race to IP, again Disney buying FOX. The more content you have the more valuable and attractive your service is. Turns out it is NOT TRUE! And the streamers are learning this the hard way. And it is arguably less true of videogame streaming than TV streaming because videogames require a significant time investment that TV/movies do not. In fact I think most people would rather gravitate to one or two games than sample endless amounts of stuff. If I only play one game then GamePass makes no sense. It's cheaper to just buy the game outright than pay GamePass.

Netflix has been profitable for twenty years now. It's decision to decouple from studios and chase its own IP to hedge against licensing is a major factor in it's success. The issue Disney and other new entrants face is the cost of acquiring enough users to make the service sustainable. Netflix had an easier time by right of being among the first to enter the market. Microsoft is taking a similar risk.

 

[semiconscious]

i'm curious to see how things pan out when starfield, & other triple-a titles, finally begin releasing (yes, i realize that this could be a while). because, imo, until a few would-be multi-million-sellers start releasing day 1 on game pass, it's hard to say just how feasible the whole thing is...

 

[Stardust_Dragon]

In the worst case scenario, if Microsoft were to just completely end their console hardware division and subsequently shut down their digital storefront + Xbox live online infrastructure, one thing I think they could do is just offer a free update for all Xbox Series S|X consoles to install Windows 11 onto the console, and then those console owners could just install Steam, Epic, and other PC launchers on their Xbox. I don't think the 360 nor the Xbox One consoles could run Windows 11 so sadly they'd probably just shut down since Windows 10 is set to reach end of life around 2025 or so. I don't think Microsoft would just want to leave the tens of millions of the Xbox Series owners holding onto a paper weight, and they would rather garner goodwill with them.

Also, in this scenario I've described, I could see Microsoft making sure to put a lot of their games on deep sales on the Steam storefront for a period of time so those Xbox console owners could try to refill their library quickly on Steam. I could even see Epic trying to strike a deal with Microsoft to offer some of their games as part of their 'free' weekly game offering, to try and entice those Xbox console owners to shift to their digital storefront instead of them just moving to Steam.

So at the end of the day, I wouldn't actually be too worried about the Xbox console owners (or at least the Xbox Series consoles anyways) losing everything and being left with absolutely nothing upon a digital store shutdown by Microsoft, since there are still tens of millions of Xbox console owners out there and I think other companies would see a valuable opportunity to try and entice them in that doomsday scenario.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Buying Activision is the pivot. It should eventually pay for itself. I see them buying one more publisher, like Ubisoft. GaaS and open world games will be perfect for them.

I see current Xbox leadership getting removed. All “free to play” “ongoing“ games currently being developed, will require gamepass.

 

[Goalus]

Sea of Thieves sold 6 million on Steam despite being on Gamepass. Forza Horizon 4 sold millions there, too. Even the most conservative estimates for Grounded sales on Steam have it at 2+ million sales on Steam.

Forza Horizon 5 outsold Ratchet Rift Apart despite being on the market for much less time…and also being a GamePass title.

Retail doesn’t end with Xbox console.

Sea of Thieves should be approaching 10 million units on Steam. As soon as it hits 300k reviews, we can safely say it sold 10M copies on Steam.

 

[ReBurn]

It's not uncommon for companies to fund products or services that are not profitable on their own with or in support of another product or service that is. Doesn't mean it's dumb. Sometimes it's a cost of doing business. Sony reported billions in losses on PS3 over its first 4 years before finally breaking even on a per-unit basis. If it hadn't been for strong PS2 sales at the beginning of the PS3's lifecycle that generation might have turned out worse for them.

 

[Kdad]

Reading this on my Zune browser.