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(LTTP) Horizon Forbidden West is one of the most disappointing sequels I've ever played.

DonJorginho

Banned
Sequels.

They exist to advance the story and to provide us with more time with the characters we love, all whilst advancing the game's design and offering more for the player to do with intuitive new design elements and using the faults from the first game to deliver numerous improvements that wildly enhance the game experience as a whole.

We all know some sequels that did just that and more: Assassin's Creed II, Uncharted - Among Thieves, Mass Effect 2, Silent Hill 2 and many more.

So in the lead up to Horizon Forbidden West you can imagine the excitement heading into the game's launch, the graphics were wildly improved upon, the combat looked snappier, the story looked ambitious and the new explorable areas looked like exactly what fans of the first game were desperate for if Aloy ever returned. But after spending 45 hours in the world of Forbidden West and having recently acquired the Platinum Trophy, I can't help but feel like Forbidden West is nothing but a series of missed opportunities and half assed game mechanics thrusted into a sequel that feels in some ways more like a DLC.

Let's start with the story, Forbidden West was always going to suffer story wise after the excellent narrative in the first game, you have already solved a lot of the mysteries about this world by the end of the first game so you're having to retread across already covered plot points and the writers have to drop in bigger threats to up the threat levels so that Aloy isn't OP upon their arrival. The problem with this is, the game seems to lack any feeling of urgency, the villains aren't compelling, the stakes aren't bigger than the first game and most characters show NO signs of development, the largest culprit of this is Aloy herself, she has remained the same wooden shell of a protagonist from the first game and hasn't changed at all heading into this game. Come the end of the game I felt like nothing had changed in the world except from one bad guy being taken out and another appearing to set up another game.

Horizon Forbidden West also has a tendency for setting up intriguing scenarios, only to either end them lacklustre or just ignoring them flat out. One has to be near the end of the game where you go into a certain characters "Tomb" under the ground, it uses environmental storytelling, atmosphere and tension to amazing effect to set up a monumental story in the wider narrative of the series and a potentially epic conclusion to one of the game's biggest plot points, but instead the devs cocktease the player and end it abruptly in disappointing fashion when the payoff they needed to utilise was (LITERALLY) right behind a door. After that point I felt robbed of a pivotal moment in the game's wider narrative and what could've been the highlight of the game, nothing ever came close to that moment again for the rest of the game.

Also fuck this game for using the most predictable trope in narratives by having the big baddy go from wanting to kill you, to apparently wanting to help you and being your best friend, to only wanting to actually kill you all along in their masterplan once you help them get to where they wanted to be, it was cheap.

Enough about the story, what about the amazing improvements to Gameplay? The advancements to quest design and mission structure?

There aren't any. The most credit I could give is the slight improvements to melee combat and the ability to eventually use a flying mount. Every "advancement" here feels like it was forced in to appease the crowds who compared the game to BOTW. Fine you enjoy gliding? here's a glider you never use that we actually will sometimes script it's movement and speed so you can't get to areas you should be able to get to. What you like grappling? Here's a grapple that stops momentum and is only useful for moving certain blue boxes and opening blue vents. You want to climb everywhere? Well tough how about only being able to climb 60% of the time and us on purpose making easily scalable areas impossible for Aloy to climb so you have to play through our shitty puzzles.

Every advancement is a setback to the overall design philosophy of the game, it doesn't add anything genuine to the game, it just adds more steps to solving problems. Most of the in-game activities haven't been improved, Cauldrons are worse with nothing new aside from some awful "timed" climbing puzzles that consist of you waiting for an animation cycle to end. What seem like cool additions like Ruins and Arena Challenges end up being recycled bore fests and don't go far enough to justify them being there. You are given a multitude of weapons and outfits but barely any of them feel useful and it always seems like you're given them way too late as your current gear set far outlevel what you've been given.

Also quest design has not improved at all, almost every quest in the game follows this path:

1) Follow NPC and have a slow trailing section where you talk exposition
2) Go to area and scan around using your detective vision, I mean eagle vision, I mean Focus.
3) Follow path of tracks using Focus
4) Short climbing/Puzzle section
5) Fight against robots/humans

And repeat, again and again and again, maybe the order of these 5 pillars may change slightly, but you generally do the same thing with some optional crappy stealth mechanics thrown in for good use. This game is a jack of all trades but a master of none.

This isn't a completely terrible game however, some of the environments, particularly further west are breath-taking and worth exploring, the sheer amount of things to do will make any Ubisoft fan cream in delight, the amount of content on offer (albeit not enjoyable or unique) do make up the price of admission in terms of price per hour of gametime. The robot designs are truly amazing as always and you can tell in some ways they did try to improve the game with how they approached the larger Rebel Camps, trying to make copy and paste content multi faceted. And for all my hate on the game, some missions are truly memorable like the one I mentioned in the "tomb". But all of this just makes the game's shortcomings all that more frustrating.

Now I want to stress that I am not calling this game a bad one, in some ways it is a good one, and in some ways it could've even been a great one. I just come away from this game extremely let down given the fact that this took 5 years to develop (3.5/4 if you take out time for COVID) and it hasn't even answered the problems of the first game, let alone improved upon them majorly or utilise elements from more successful and more intuitive titles like BOTW. In general this game feels like a more polished Ubisoft title and I'd give it a 7/10 if I was reviewing it officially, but overall this game just feels like a missed opportunity to create something special when Guerilla had all the pieces right at their disposal, all they had to do was put them in the right places.

TLDR FOR THOSE WHO HATE MY WALL OF TEXT: Horizon Forbidden West is a disappointing sequel as it fails to build upon any of the pillars of the gameplay, severely misses in the narrative and gameplay variety department, and a lot of it's "new" mechanics come off half assed in terms of implementation once the novelty wares off. I hope they nail Horizon III as I want to love this series so bad but it just isn't meeting it's potential.

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The Cockatrice

Gold Member
Also quest design has not improved at all, almost every quest in the game follows this path:

1) Follow NPC and have a slow trailing section where you talk exposition
2) Go to area and scan around using your detective vision, I mean eagle vision, I mean Focus.
3) Follow path of tracks using Focus
4) Short climbing/Puzzle section
5) Fight against robots/humans

I cringe every single time I read these kind of complaints. I'm curious what kind of quest design have you played that is significantly better? Red Baron quest from Witcher 3? It has the exact same design as the thing your complaining. From a gameplay perspective what else would a quest or side quest make you do besides the actual gameplay and some great narrative writing? Did you expect quests and side quests to give you different and unique gameplay mechanics never encountered in the game? Go there find this, go there kill that, every game is the same.

As for everything else, the game is an improved version of the first which was highly praised especially on gaf so yeah.
 
Yeah I agree with your assessment, I was super hyped because I enjoyed the first one immensely. The second one just felt like more of the same, but with incredibly boring characters and a weird mismatched culture vibe. The combat was fun, environtments were beautiful, but the climbing I found to be atrocious and the exploration was bland and unrewarding.

If I realize I'm playing a game and can see behind the curtain in a sense it's almost always over for me at that point. Regarding the settlements, it's almost like they made the skin colors different but literally nothing else. Cool you got your diversity points... but if you're gonna have black npc's at least get some black voice actors to voice them or else it sounds incredibly weird, same for the asian npcs, hispanic npcs, etc. That aspcet of it really took the "believability" out of the settlements. It's like someone forgot to tell them that what makes cultures fucking rad are the differences in dialect and behavior/day to day activities, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. Cyberpunk Voodoo Boys were a perfect example of this, was awesome to walk around and explore a "Haitian-esque" culture and all the npc's were literally dripping with character and charisma.
 

DonJorginho

Banned
I cringe every single time I read these kind of complaints. I'm curious what kind of quest design have you played that is significantly better? Red Baron quest from Witcher 3? It has the exact same design as the thing your complaining. From a gameplay perspective what else would a quest or side quest make you do besides the actual gameplay and some great narrative writing? Did you expect quests and side quests to give you different and unique gameplay mechanics never encountered in the game? Go there find this, go there kill that, every game is the same.

As for everything else, the game is an improved version of the first which was highly praised especially on gaf so yeah.
Improved in which ways?

The story is worse, the missions are less memorable, the level of character development is on a lower level to the first, the stakes are lesser, the novelty of the first game's at first new and fresh mechanics are now stale and not being improved upon.

And I love your logic, game was praised by GAF so anything opposing it is wrong. Fortnite is the most popular game in the world, so I guess anyone who wants to criticise that is wrong too also yes?

I am not saying this is a bad game, it is just one that misses the mark and fails to be the ambitious sequel it could and SHOULD have been.

And also games can easily switch up quest variety without bringing in new mechanics all the time, if half of the quests were actually interesting in this game for me I would be able to maybe look past it's shortcomings structure wise, but alas it does not.
 
I haven't played it yet. I will soon though. Guerrilla have always been top level technically with graphics but I never saw them as being up there with the likes of santa Monica and naughty dog overall. I know they haven't done open worlds but I'm talking from a narrative, tone and the way they tell a story. Outside if that, they do everything else really well and are still one of sonys killer studios.
 

DonJorginho

Banned
I literally said I liked the first game and stressed that HFW isn't a bad game? I am just personally disappointed with it.

Don't be so defensive whenever someone comes for the games you love, if you don't agree and love HFW for what it is then I'm glad you got what you wanted out of it man, I ain't making this post to shit on those who like the game.
 

The Cockatrice

Gold Member
Improved in which ways?

The story is worse, the missions are less memorable, the level of character development is on a lower level to the first, the stakes are lesser, the novelty of the first game's at first new and fresh mechanics are now stale and not being improved upon.

And I love your logic, game was praised by GAF so anything opposing it is wrong. Fortnite is the most popular game in the world, so I guess anyone who wants to criticise that is wrong too also yes?

I am not saying this is a bad game, it is just one that misses the mark and fails to be the ambitious sequel it could and SHOULD have been.

And also games can easily switch up quest variety without bringing in new mechanics all the time, if half of the quests were actually interesting in this game for me I would be able to maybe look past it's shortcomings structure wise, but alas it does not.

Worse my ass. Characters are much more fleshed out, you get to interact with them, do their personal side quests. Every single side quest in the game has a background/lore behind it as well as great voice acting, it's miles better than the first. YOu only liked the first because it had a nice twist, but besides that, it does nothing unique or interesting, and all of its side-quests are forgetable trash, except the one at the lodge.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
100% agreed. The Ted Faro cocktease was bs especially after they spent an hour building it up. The combat no longer feels fun and snappy. The villains were a huge missed opportunity. ZERO improvements in level design and game design. It's literally copy paste which is mostly ok since this is a last gen sequel, but this fucking game took 5 years to make. CD Project made an entirely new IP in five years. SSM completely rebooted GOW in 4 years. This is a long time and they just couldnt do much to change up the core design.

Like you said, its not a bad game. It's quite good and comptent. Graphics are amazing, but doesnt mean the game isnt a huge missed opportunity. It was hilarious to see the finale feature a massive fight between alien robots and dinbots featuring hundreds of robots on screen at once only for it to turn out to be a bs cutscene and you avoid the whole battlefield altogether. I thought the director did an interview saying they were able to accomplish everything they wanted to on the PS4, and yet they werent able to put you in the middle of this setpiece. I wonder why.
 
I didnt read that huge wall. And the picture pisses me of. Looks like that annoying dude that eats food on youtube.

But yes the story isnt as good as the first. Gameplay is way better, but I wish they just took more risks with the story.

Not reading that wall of text

It’s a perfectly adequate sequel and I enjoyed it similarly to the first

I think they spent too much time on checklist design rather than curating the open world, that’s my only complaint


When your target audience can't be arsed to spend 3 minutes reading a few paragraphs, this is the game you make for them.
 

DonJorginho

Banned
When your target audience can't be arsed to spend 3 minutes reading a few paragraphs, this is the game you make for them.
Well There It Is Jurassic Park GIF


Seriously though, I ain't hating those who disagree with me on this, I'm happy that they enjoy the game for what it is.

Just wish that people were mature enough to debate with me instead of just saying "didn't read lol", but hey that's what you get on the internet.
 
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Banjo64

cumsessed
Not sure why people are always so eager to show that they can’t even read a relatively short summary/review of a video game. Why are you even on an enthusiast forum if you can’t read more than a paragraph? Thanks for sharing your thoughts OP. I’m yet to start Forbidden West but I didn’t think the story in the first game was all that either, I just like the gameplay/scenery and the completionist nature of the plat.
 

Valt7786

Member
I was enjoying it for the story enough until the floating invincible space people turned up, felt it went a little too off the rails at that point. (I know I know, robot dinosaurs, advanced AI and technology etc) It just looked so out of place.
 

MDSLKTR

Member
I actually hated the 3/4 of it but got hooked towards the end... Like the first one. I don't think they should have had kept the flying mount for the endgame.
 
Same. The first one had a moment that broke all motivation and care that I had for the story. The second one makes the same mistake. Shame...cuz is a masterpiece (technically and artistic)
 

Dodkrake

Banned
The problem with this is, the game seems to lack any feeling of urgency, the villains aren't compelling, the stakes aren't bigger than the first game and most characters show NO signs of development, the largest culprit of this is Aloy herself, she has remained the same wooden shell of a protagonist from the first game and hasn't changed at all heading into this game. Come the end of the game I felt like nothing had changed in the world except from one bad guy being taken out and another appearing to set up another game.

Hard BS - you have plenty of new characters and character development for them and existing ones, and Aloy herself is way more mature and confident in this game.

There aren't any. The most credit I could give is the slight improvements to melee combat and the ability to eventually use a flying mount. Every "advancement" here feels like it was forced in to appease the crowds who compared the game to BOTW. Fine you enjoy gliding? here's a glider you never use that we actually will sometimes script it's movement and speed so you can't get to areas you should be able to get to. What you like grappling? Here's a grapple that stops momentum and is only useful for moving certain blue boxes and opening blue vents. You want to climb everywhere? Well tough how about only being able to climb 60% of the time and us on purpose making easily scalable areas impossible for Aloy to climb so you have to play through our shitty puzzles.

There aren't any - Proceeds to list new gameplay features and improvements.

Additionally, in a close to 70h playthrough, I never had a case where the glider was scripted. As for climbing, not all surfaces are climbable in real life, why should they be in the game?

Every advancement is a setback to the overall design philosophy of the game, it doesn't add anything genuine to the game, it just adds more steps to solving problems. Most of the in-game activities haven't been improved, Cauldrons are worse with nothing new aside from some awful "timed" climbing puzzles that consist of you waiting for an animation cycle to end. What seem like cool additions like Ruins and Arena Challenges end up being recycled bore fests and don't go far enough to justify them being there. You are given a multitude of weapons and outfits but barely any of them feel useful and it always seems like you're given them way too late as your current gear set far outlevel what you've been given.

What more steps to solve a problem? As for cauldrons, how are they worse if they are essentially the same with more puzzle solving?

Also quest design has not improved at all, almost every quest in the game follows this path:

1) Follow NPC and have a slow trailing section where you talk exposition
2) Go to area and scan around using your detective vision, I mean eagle vision, I mean Focus.
3) Follow path of tracks using Focus
4) Short climbing/Puzzle section
5) Fight against robots/humans

Bullshit. Plenty of side quests add to the main story, even if they are optional, and do not follow that path.

Sequels.

They exist to advance the story and to provide us with more time with the characters we love, all whilst advancing the game's design and offering more for the player to do with intuitive new design elements and using the faults from the first game to deliver numerous improvements that wildly enhance the game experience as a whole.

Game design - advanced
More for the player to do - check
New intuitive design elements - check
Numerous improvements - check

Interestingly enough, here's what you said about a game that rips off No Man's Sky and adds some Fallout to the mix

1000???? This sounds insane, hope they can pull it off.
 
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DonJorginho

Banned
Interestingly enough, here's what you said about a game that rips off No Man's Sky and adds some Fallout to the mix
I was going to reply to the rest of your post in detailed description but I can clearly see you're war baiting and trying to corner me into saying a response you want to hear.

I just mentioned that 1000 planets in Starfield is an insane amount and I hope they can pull that off, I love gaming on all platforms buddy and have no allegiances, I may joke around from time to time but I have no hard ties to any of the big three.

For what it's worth, I'm glad you like the game and can see past it's issues, I'm not policing opinions here saying I am the one with facts and those who like the game are not, just giving my take and allowing people to *respectfully* challenge my takes.

You are just annoyed that I praised an Xbox game and have made a post respectfully criticising a Sony game.
 

sloppyjoe_gamer

Gold Member
As someone who platinumed the first game, while i am enjoying HFW, it does seem like a drag at times and i find myself struggling often to want to keep going. The game is gorgeous, and the story (so far) is interesting, i can't quite put my finger on what it is that makes me feel like its a drag at times.
 
oh I read a few paragraphs hence my agreement on the risk free story. But after the orange spoiler I noticed it kept going. No gracias.

Druckmann save this franchise.
I thought the OG Horizon was waaay better than I expected when it came to Steam. Personally I don't think the lore is worth expanding on after two 40 hour games. Stronk Cave Woman Shoot Arrows at Robot Dinos can only go so far before you reach utter absurdity. In fact it's a credit to GG that we didn't get there sooner. I'd rather see that talented team work on a new IP.
 

Vick

Member
Absolutely loved it. Story isn't necessarily on the same level as the first (nothing is in gaming to me), and neither were logs, but as for the rest.. characters, traversals, enemies, quests.. just chef kiss.
Not to mention facial animations and graphics in general.

Vegas alone was worth the price of admission, and became one of my favorite places, quests and characters ever.
 

N30RYU

Member
iggy azalea s GIF


platinumed it... is a good game... but is very very forgettable

and the tomb part is a big WTF... I hope they left it for a sequel... I don't think such an important character ends that way.


the game fails miserably at building any kind of hurry or tension
 
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Dodkrake

Banned
I was going to reply to the rest of your post in detailed description but I can clearly see you're war baiting and trying to corner me into saying a response you want to hear.

War baiting what? Your "opinion" on HFW reads like an opinion of someone that hasn't actually played the game but rather formulated it using youtube as a source. I may be wrong, but you're off the mark on a lot of objective things.

I just mentioned that 1000 planets in Starfield is an insane amount and I hope they can pull that off, I love gaming on all platforms buddy and have no allegiances, I may joke around from time to time but I have no hard ties to any of the big three.

Being so heavily critical of HFW when it does the things you claim it should do while advocating for 1000 planets being somewhat groundbreaking or bonkers... Yeah. It's not an insane amount when No Man's sky has 18 quintillion planets and was developed by a handful of people.

You are just annoyed that I praised an Xbox game and have made a post respectfully criticising a Sony game.

Not really - I don't give two shits. But this forum is usually plagued by threads which seem to be overly concerned about Sony games but then the exact same people fail to point any shortcomings on other games. I find it really curious, that's all.

And for the record, I want to play (on PC) Starfield and I'm primarily a PC player.
 

Vick

Member
Taste and preferences aside.. i can read some:

the largest culprit of this is Aloy herself, she has remained the same wooden shell of a protagonist from the first game and hasn't changed at all heading into this game.

Fine you enjoy gliding? here's a glider you never use that we actually will sometimes script it's movement and speed so you can't get to areas you should be able to get to.

I can't replay Zero Dawn without dying every minute because of the glider.
 
It's disappointing and it was a struggle to even play it all the way through which i never expected.
Also...lol at that ending.

So much bloat on those sidequests only to underdevelop the entire main game...and even worse, the nemesis part at the end. Seriously? They are setting up a "cloud" as the main boss for the next game? Like...at that point i don't even care anymore.

I'll say this: If Guerrilla were to announce the end of this IP to work on something different i'd honestly love it. When you're hyped for a sequel because the first game was so good...but somehow the sequel is so lackluster that by the end of it you're over the entire main plotpoints and even the ones they set up for the 3rd game are even worse than the ones they did for the second game...maybe it's time to just move on. I won't be buying the next one on day one for sure.
 

jorgejjvr

Member
I stopped playing, nothing was bad.....but it all just felt like more of the same, and never felt like I got something new out of it

yeah it was prettier, yeah some gameplay elements was better but.....the same excitement of 1 wasnt there
 

DonJorginho

Banned
War baiting what? Your "opinion" on HFW reads like an opinion of someone that hasn't actually played the game but rather formulated it using youtube as a source. I may be wrong, but you're off the mark on a lot of objective things.
Firstly to help you believe me:
8TcXtlo.jpg


Being so heavily critical of HFW when it does the things you claim it should do while advocating for 1000 planets being somewhat groundbreaking or bonkers... Yeah. It's not an insane amount when No Man's sky has 18 quintillion planets and was developed by a handful of people.
This isn't a who's dick is bigger contest, I love No Man's Sky and fully appreciate what they did with a small team, I also love Bethesda games for the most part and think that if they really push themselves quality wise these 1000 planets could be great and an innovative feature, aside from No Man's Sky who else is doing that, let alone in AAA fashion.
Not really - I don't give two shits. But this forum is usually plagued by threads which seem to be overly concerned about Sony games but then the exact same people fail to point any shortcomings on other games. I find it really curious, that's all.

And for the record, I want to play (on PC) Starfield and I'm primarily a PC player.
NeoGAF is a gaming enthusiast thread where hardcore fans reside, you're gonna get a bit of that sadly, if you look through my post history you'll find plenty of me criticising Xbox, Sony and Nintendo, I want all three to be the best they can be and I have no allegiances to brandish, this isn't meant to be some troll concern thread, it's just me stating an opinion that I know may prove unpopular but why not speak on my thoughts given its a discussion forum after all.
 

Vick

Member
War baiting what? Your "opinion" on HFW reads like an opinion of someone that hasn't actually played the game but rather formulated it using youtube as a source. I may be wrong, but you're off the mark on a lot of objective things.

Being so heavily critical of HFW when it does the things you claim it should do while advocating for 1000 planets being somewhat groundbreaking or bonkers... Yeah. It's not an insane amount when No Man's sky has 18 quintillion planets and was developed by a handful of people.

Not really - I don't give two shits. But this forum is usually plagued by threads which seem to be overly concerned about Sony games but then the exact same people fail to point any shortcomings on other games. I find it really curious, that's all.

And for the record, I want to play (on PC) Starfield and I'm primarily a PC player.
I get what you're saying as it's really annoying in general, but from my experience OP is definitely not some salty troll of fanboy in general.
I don't agree with basically the entirety of his post, but i totally trust this being his genuine opinion.
 
Sequels.

They exist to advance the story and to provide us with more time with the characters we love, all whilst advancing the game's design and offering more for the player to do with intuitive new design elements and using the faults from the first game to deliver numerous improvements that wildly enhance the game experience as a whole.

We all know some sequels that did just that and more: Assassin's Creed II, Uncharted - Among Thieves, Mass Effect 2, Silent Hill 2 and many more.

So in the lead up to Horizon Forbidden West you can imagine the excitement heading into the game's launch, the graphics were wildly improved upon, the combat looked snappier, the story looked ambitious and the new explorable areas looked like exactly what fans of the first game were desperate for if Aloy ever returned. But after spending 45 hours in the world of Forbidden West and having recently acquired the Platinum Trophy, I can't help but feel like Forbidden West is nothing but a series of missed opportunities and half assed game mechanics thrusted into a sequel that feels in some ways more like a DLC.

Let's start with the story, Forbidden West was always going to suffer story wise after the excellent narrative in the first game, you have already solved a lot of the mysteries about this world by the end of the first game so you're having to retread across already covered plot points and the writers have to drop in bigger threats to up the threat levels so that Aloy isn't OP upon their arrival. The problem with this is, the game seems to lack any feeling of urgency, the villains aren't compelling, the stakes aren't bigger than the first game and most characters show NO signs of development, the largest culprit of this is Aloy herself, she has remained the same wooden shell of a protagonist from the first game and hasn't changed at all heading into this game. Come the end of the game I felt like nothing had changed in the world except from one bad guy being taken out and another appearing to set up another game.

Horizon Forbidden West also has a tendency for setting up intriguing scenarios, only to either end them lacklustre or just ignoring them flat out. One has to be near the end of the game where you go into a certain characters "Tomb" under the ground, it uses environmental storytelling, atmosphere and tension to amazing effect to set up a monumental story in the wider narrative of the series and a potentially epic conclusion to one of the game's biggest plot points, but instead the devs cocktease the player and end it abruptly in disappointing fashion when the payoff they needed to utilise was (LITERALLY) right behind a door. After that point I felt robbed of a pivotal moment in the game's wider narrative and what could've been the highlight of the game, nothing ever came close to that moment again for the rest of the game.

Also fuck this game for using the most predictable trope in narratives by having the big baddy go from wanting to kill you, to apparently wanting to help you and being your best friend, to only wanting to actually kill you all along in their masterplan once you help them get to where they wanted to be, it was cheap.

Enough about the story, what about the amazing improvements to Gameplay? The advancements to quest design and mission structure?

There aren't any. The most credit I could give is the slight improvements to melee combat and the ability to eventually use a flying mount. Every "advancement" here feels like it was forced in to appease the crowds who compared the game to BOTW. Fine you enjoy gliding? here's a glider you never use that we actually will sometimes script it's movement and speed so you can't get to areas you should be able to get to. What you like grappling? Here's a grapple that stops momentum and is only useful for moving certain blue boxes and opening blue vents. You want to climb everywhere? Well tough how about only being able to climb 60% of the time and us on purpose making easily scalable areas impossible for Aloy to climb so you have to play through our shitty puzzles.

Every advancement is a setback to the overall design philosophy of the game, it doesn't add anything genuine to the game, it just adds more steps to solving problems. Most of the in-game activities haven't been improved, Cauldrons are worse with nothing new aside from some awful "timed" climbing puzzles that consist of you waiting for an animation cycle to end. What seem like cool additions like Ruins and Arena Challenges end up being recycled bore fests and don't go far enough to justify them being there. You are given a multitude of weapons and outfits but barely any of them feel useful and it always seems like you're given them way too late as your current gear set far outlevel what you've been given.

Also quest design has not improved at all, almost every quest in the game follows this path:

1) Follow NPC and have a slow trailing section where you talk exposition
2) Go to area and scan around using your detective vision, I mean eagle vision, I mean Focus.
3) Follow path of tracks using Focus
4) Short climbing/Puzzle section
5) Fight against robots/humans

And repeat, again and again and again, maybe the order of these 5 pillars may change slightly, but you generally do the same thing with some optional crappy stealth mechanics thrown in for good use. This game is a jack of all trades but a master of none.

This isn't a completely terrible game however, some of the environments, particularly further west are breath-taking and worth exploring, the sheer amount of things to do will make any Ubisoft fan cream in delight, the amount of content on offer (albeit not enjoyable or unique) do make up the price of admission in terms of price per hour of gametime. The robot designs are truly amazing as always and you can tell in some ways they did try to improve the game with how they approached the larger Rebel Camps, trying to make copy and paste content multi faceted. And for all my hate on the game, some missions are truly memorable like the one I mentioned in the "tomb". But all of this just makes the game's shortcomings all that more frustrating.

Now I want to stress that I am not calling this game a bad one, in some ways it is a good one, and in some ways it could've even been a great one. I just come away from this game extremely let down given the fact that this took 5 years to develop (3.5/4 if you take out time for COVID) and it hasn't even answered the problems of the first game, let alone improved upon them majorly or utilise elements from more successful and more intuitive titles like BOTW. In general this game feels like a more polished Ubisoft title and I'd give it a 7/10 if I was reviewing it officially, but overall this game just feels like a missed opportunity to create something special when Guerilla had all the pieces right at their disposal, all they had to do was put them in the right places.

TLDR FOR THOSE WHO HATE MY WALL OF TEXT: Horizon Forbidden West is a disappointing sequel as it fails to build upon any of the pillars of the gameplay, severely misses in the narrative and gameplay variety department, and a lot of it's "new" mechanics come off half assed in terms of implementation once the novelty wares off. I hope they nail Horizon III as I want to love this series so bad but it just isn't meeting it's potential.

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don't know about HFW but jorginho is so overrated
 
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