-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Mitsuda Maniac
Member
The story is hot garbage. Gameplay is good (I put in like 150 hrs) but I feel it is kind of overrated. The base stuff is kind of cool at first, but grows tiring quickly. Its never really beneficial to kill anyone so I feel I didn't get great use of all of the cool lethal weapons. The terrain you fight in kind of feels flat and boring for both major locations. It probably is the worst Metal Gear Solid game by far. At least 4 feels like classic Kojima, and has some great story mixed in.
Kamina
Golden Boy
So Iiking a game is equal to being a fanboy now?
Edit:
Never mind. Keep up your dislike-mania. I dont care.
Last edited:
ethomaz
Banned
Maybe, maybe you don't get it.
Arachnid
Member
MGSV was great, but it was REALLY stripped down from prior entries gameplay wise. It made it more accessible to others at least, so that's good for them. I, personally, wasn't a fan of how dumbed down a lot of it was. Still love the sandbox gameplay though. That was the major upgrade it brought to the table.
Last edited:
Roni
Gold Member
I'm sure the pro scene of MGS4 was teeming with the best of the best. The prizes were huge back then!
Dude, just get off your nostalgia trip.
sonomamashine
Member
nope you said thisSo Iiking a game is equal to being a fanboy now?
Edit:
Never mind. Keep up your dislike-mania. I dont care.
and i said true definition of a fan boy
what story ? the game was like you opened fox engine and started messing with assets.
i found MGS4 gameplay far superior than 5, and i explained why.
well since i played them in the pro scene it's the first maybe.
it's not about nostalgia just facts, you can't understand if you didn't experience it.
Kamina
Golden Boy
sircaw
Banned
When i first got my playstation a few years i tried out mgs 5 as everyone was raving about it. I personally hated it and after a few hours of play i just said no this not for me. I can not understand why people liked and raved so much about it. It is the same with this new death stranding game i just don't feel it but some people are making it out to be like the greatest thing ever.
Just for reference other games people raved about on the ps4 i did really like, uncharted collection was great, rachet and clank is fantastic, God of was and bloodborne prehaps the best game i have played on ps4, wow that's all i can say.
At the end of the day i people are different, i was just surprised that i actually loathed a game so many love.
Just for reference other games people raved about on the ps4 i did really like, uncharted collection was great, rachet and clank is fantastic, God of was and bloodborne prehaps the best game i have played on ps4, wow that's all i can say.
At the end of the day i people are different, i was just surprised that i actually loathed a game so many love.
Last edited:
Roni
Gold Member
Well, you're hung up on the fact MGO3 didn't take off the way you'd want it to. I guess that's a fact...
#Phonepunk#
Banned
???? for real? uh, like what is present in earlier entries that is missing in this?
you have more range of movement in this than in any prior game. you can crawl, crouch, run, and also do slow sneaking versions of the above. you can throw smoke grenades, sleep grenades, lay down traps, use decoys. you can shoot a rocket hand. upon CQC grab you can choke someone out, slice their kneck, or interrogate them two different ways. you have more options for equipment load outs. you have the slow motion thing you can turn on or off. you can call in weaponry, supplies, vehicles. you have support characters in D-Dog, Quiet, D-Horse, and D-Walker, all which give you different options for mobility, stealth, and infilatration.
i mean FOB alone provides for fully customizable battle scenarios that you could never do in earlier games. you can do everything from easy infiltrations to super insane difficult with laser trip wires everywhere and armored flying drones. honestly i'm baffled at "gameplay stripped down from other entries"
Last edited:
ethomaz
Banned
ethomaz
Banned
The opposite the gameplay is enhanced with way more options than previous entries.
Anybody calling it stripped down is clearly lying.
Last edited:
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
i just started it recently. i just done the mission "occupation forces".
i have no idea WTF is happening story wise and i'm sick to death of seeing "Hideo Kojima" every 2 seconds.
gameplay is fun but kinda ridiculous and too easy. it's fun that you can customise your load out, drop in, plan your approach etc but the AI is dumb as hell. the missions overall are too easy. the one i just done i sneaked up but got caught so just started killing everyone, called in the helicopter for support, and that was it really...no back up enemies sent or anything. then of course the tanks appear so i just launched a few grenades and called in a bombardment. end of. so damn easy.
i actually enjoyed Ground Zeroes much better. sure it's shorter but it i found it more challenging.
i'm gonna stick with it for now but don't think i'll be finishing it.
i have no idea WTF is happening story wise and i'm sick to death of seeing "Hideo Kojima" every 2 seconds.
gameplay is fun but kinda ridiculous and too easy. it's fun that you can customise your load out, drop in, plan your approach etc but the AI is dumb as hell. the missions overall are too easy. the one i just done i sneaked up but got caught so just started killing everyone, called in the helicopter for support, and that was it really...no back up enemies sent or anything. then of course the tanks appear so i just launched a few grenades and called in a bombardment. end of. so damn easy.
i actually enjoyed Ground Zeroes much better. sure it's shorter but it i found it more challenging.
i'm gonna stick with it for now but don't think i'll be finishing it.
Last edited:
Roni
Gold Member
Well, you've pretty clearly mastered the combat in the game. You should focus on mastering the stealth now.
Thaedolus
Gold Member
All valid points I agree with, but I think the lack of structure and narrative drive to the game really threw it off. There was a lot done in service of making this an open world game, but given how repetitive the missions became, I'm not sure there's much of a case to be made that it should've been structured as an open world game. And given how MGS games typically over explain everything, the abrupt ending really did a disservice to the plot (though that's probably Konami's fault).
Still, the game is amazing for all the reasons mentioned. Its shortcomings are probably more apparent/hurt more because of how high the highs are.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
i think the open world is perfect and wonderful and something hinted at every since MGS3. it would have been a shame if they never got to try this out and had to do the same old thing again. previous games have you sneak into and out of a handful of bases for most of the game, this one has you do that for a full base nearly every mission. yes they could have done linear corridors where you are stopped by a cutscene every time you walk 3 rooms, but they already did that for like 4 previous games. no harm in stretching out.
if you go back and replay MGS1 and imagine you are in the level with new controls, it is apparently that style of storytelling no longer works when you have a modern engine and more realistic controls. you could probably run through the whole game in an hour. indeed that was the complain for many about Ground Zeroes. MGS4 proved this by featuring the MGS1 base as a single level you just run through. what worked for early controls doesn't work anymore. this is really the main case for open world. we can't have Snake blocked by 2-foot-tall boxes on the floor anymore. it's not realistic. when he looks and controls like a real person, he needs more freedom.
the open world serves a number of functions. first of all, every story mission takes place in a new area, a new base. no more backtracking like in old games. secondly it provides player freedom, if you want to jump in a car and drive to another base and do a side op or whatever, you are free to do so. Peace Walker was the first to really lay on the side ops, but due to the tech, it reused the same 3-4 areas over and over. with MGSV's open world, the side ops take place in areas in & outside of standard mission areas. instead of fighting tanks over and over in 2 closed areas, you are out in the desert, or on the savannah, in new areas, with new landscape, new challenges, etc.
if you go back and replay MGS1 and imagine you are in the level with new controls, it is apparently that style of storytelling no longer works when you have a modern engine and more realistic controls. you could probably run through the whole game in an hour. indeed that was the complain for many about Ground Zeroes. MGS4 proved this by featuring the MGS1 base as a single level you just run through. what worked for early controls doesn't work anymore. this is really the main case for open world. we can't have Snake blocked by 2-foot-tall boxes on the floor anymore. it's not realistic. when he looks and controls like a real person, he needs more freedom.
the open world serves a number of functions. first of all, every story mission takes place in a new area, a new base. no more backtracking like in old games. secondly it provides player freedom, if you want to jump in a car and drive to another base and do a side op or whatever, you are free to do so. Peace Walker was the first to really lay on the side ops, but due to the tech, it reused the same 3-4 areas over and over. with MGSV's open world, the side ops take place in areas in & outside of standard mission areas. instead of fighting tanks over and over in 2 closed areas, you are out in the desert, or on the savannah, in new areas, with new landscape, new challenges, etc.
Last edited:
#Phonepunk#
Banned
one thing i was super impressed with was that throughout the open world, i never once got stuck on level design, never once got trapped in geometry. not that this happened in previous games, but it is a common occurrence in other open worlds and it's cool they keep quality control here. many bases, you can crawl the entire way through. they played through these areas over and over perfecting them.
sonomamashine
Member
keep twisting what i said to suits your narrative, i said this game (A) is better than this game (B), it's like this football team (A) is better than team (B), when you know (what's going on in the football scene) very well it's a fact.
not at all, you can ask anyone that played them both wich is better than the other.He played in Pro so it makes what he thinks better
sonomamashine
Member
history and achievements makes it a fact.
ethomaz
Banned
Nope.
Makes it your opinion.
MGSV gameplay is factually better even if you don't like it.
Last edited:
-Arcadia-
Banned
I love this game. I don’t know if I could ever go back anytime soon, because I spent so much time in the world, but there’s no doubt that it’s one of my favorite experiences of the generation. In a sea of mindless, not-particularly-well-designed ‘AAA’ games, gameplay this well done, genuinely sticks out.
Not to say it doesn’t have flaws, but people seem to beat those to death. Perhaps it’s the nature of a society oriented towards negativity. To me, the bigger story, is all the stuff the game got right. I won’t soon be forgetting my trip to 1980s Afghanistan and Africa, soundtrack and all, actually building, piece by piece, the legend of Big Boss we’ve heard for so long.
Not to say it doesn’t have flaws, but people seem to beat those to death. Perhaps it’s the nature of a society oriented towards negativity. To me, the bigger story, is all the stuff the game got right. I won’t soon be forgetting my trip to 1980s Afghanistan and Africa, soundtrack and all, actually building, piece by piece, the legend of Big Boss we’ve heard for so long.
Arachnid
Member
I’m talking about raw controls/gameplay. The core aspects of the game. Not necessarily all the bells and whistles you played with in the open world like buddies or decoys. I can elaborate.
-The camo system in V is awful and discouraged actually blending in despite the options in outfits. No in-game camo indicator, and you couldn’t change your outfit mid-mission without waiting 5 minutes for a suit supply drop (and using supply drops lowers your final score). The Octocamo was better since it offered some kind of chameleon gameplay but almost never gave you a ridiculously high camo index. You were still plenty visible since enemies were always confined to closer quarters with you, and it was always more of a fun struggle trying to max out the camo indicator with it (which was impossible without getting the unlockable octocamo mask from Laughing Octopus). It also wasn’t just impacted by visual aspects. Being in alert phase made the camo indicator red which meant you were more noticeable. The blue camo indicator meant you were also being obstructed/less noticeable due to loud noises in the area drawing attention. MGS3 was better too since you could change in the field and it complimented the close quarters gameplay better. The stealth suit or ocelot at night was usually the best option in V anyways, so not much point to switching; this boiled the stealth down to binary light and dark mechanics most of the time.
-Stripped down cqc; just spam the right trigger. There was more manual action in prior entries.
-Regenerating health that replaced the health gauge and the psyche gauge so no more health or psych management.
-VERY lacking bosses. MGS4 had you using wind and footsteps to track Crying Wolf through a high intensity whiteout (with the freezing conditions draining Snakes psyche as the battle wore on) in an intense sniper battle. MGSV didn’t have a single moment that lived up to this kind of boss design. The Skulls and the Metal Gear were were bullet sponges you dumped LMGs into. Worst case scenario, they shoot you and you wait for your health to regen in five seconds. This was awful.
-lacking difficulty options, but too many options to make it easier like buddies, slow motion, marking
-same gameplay loop all the way through. Abysmal mission structure other than a few very rare stand outs like the honey bee mission. Otherwise, you were just assassinating or exfiltrating some faceless engineer or interpreter. The actual locations you infiltrated were also all really lame/simple in design and layout. The exception here is the honey bee mission which was fantastic all the way through (and maaaaybe the code talker mansion, though they could have done more with the layout inside). Camp Omega in ground zeroes was also much better done and more varied than any location in V.
-buddies were fun, but they flat out hurt the stealth. Quiet could snipe out entire bases for you, and D-dog was a walking radar that automatically lit everyone up with those markers. D-walker wasn’t made for stealth at all. D-horse was pretty good. Other than him, all these guys did was make the easy stealth easier and take out enemies for you. This didn’t improve it in any way. IMO Metal Gear Mk. II in MGS4 was a better done buddy than all of them and it complimented the stealth gameplay better.
-You could do all that in MGS4 and it was more useful. Most of the time in MGSV, enemies aren’t in that close a proximity, and you could stealth past them without having to slowly crawl past. I also almost never had to use the ‘play dead/lay flat’ mechanic’ which I used it constantly in MGS4. The “open world” simplified the hell out of infiltration. Stealth is at its best when infiltrating tight quarters/interiors like in Splinter Cell and prior MGS entries.
-MGS4 also had the sound indicator from the solid eye. It monitored the sound you made which made the varying speeds of movement much more necessary to use. It also monitored all the sound around you.
-They removed codec conversations. Remember being stumped on how to tackle a boss and having to call Otacon or Paramedic for advice? Even the codec calls that gave backstory or layed out the story for us were fantastic. The cassette tapes were a lazy shadow of this, and barely a step above the destiny grimoire. There's no excuse for such important story tidbits to be buried in cassette tapes. Some of this stuff should have been given its own cutscene.
-interrogations are the exact same as MGS3. You just have options as far as questions/intel type now because there are more useless pick ups in the “open world”. They removed the option to frisk for items during interrogations too (you didn’t need to question people in MGS4 either, though you could still go through the motions to frisk them for ammo, rations, (etc...).
-Mostly useless stuff that weren’t worth the GP drain to take every mission. Also do we really need 100 unsilenced LMGs, assault rifles, pistols and SMGs (though MGS4 did the same thing and it was useless there too)? MGS4 had an extensive inventory too, and more of the items were actually useful.
-MGS4 had different factions fighting eachother that you could use to your advantage.
-lacking story (I actually liked the ‘language as a bioweapon’ angle just for the originality, though they didn’t do much with it all and the ending that was there fizzed out; this isn't gameplay obviously, but it's still worth mentioning)
-MGS4 had the solid eye, the syringe, the mood tranquilizers (which were fun as hell), the Octocamo, better CQC, health/psych management, better mission structure (though you can chalk this up to it being a more linear/story based game), more and better bosses, more difficulty options (which is a huge plus since it directly impacts and compliments the stealth gameplay), frisking for items (better than supply drops), Metal Gear Mk. II which was a better addition to the game than any buddy, better use of the mobility system in tighter quarters, sound indicators, a more fine tuned and visible camo index that actually impacted the moment to moment gameplay, and probable tons aspects more I’m forgetting.
The main improvement MGSV brought to the table was the open world. This is what blew people away enough to make them look past simplified stealth gameplay. It was a good addition, but it also boiled down to the same gameplay loop every mission. This wouldn’t even be a problem for me if they put more effort into the individual locations and mission designs. Most of them were small outposts, and the bigger locations we had weren’t varied enough (code talkers mansion was just a bunch of copied and pasted rooms surrounded by forest for example). The exception is, again, the honey bee mission (Snake sneaks past a heavily guarded bridge to infiltrate an enemy cliffside complex with the mission to recover a secret weapon prototype before having his first encounter with Skullface and the new Metal Gear as well as the first boss battle with the Skulls). That mission was fucking fantastic. There should have been more of this. They should have made more areas varied like this and Camp Omega in Ground Zeroes.
BTW don't take any of this as me saying it's a bad game. It's amazing. It may be my least favorite of the mainline MGSVs, but that's more because of the story and the lacking ending than anything else. Even the worst mainline MGS is in the 9/10 and up range for me.
Last edited:
Roni
Gold Member
That's a nice rant and all, but you and I know the name of the game is fun and variation keeps you into any game. For most people, so long as there's something different to do in a game, they keep going.
Sure, MGS4 had more controls than MGSV.
As en example: you could crawl on your back at will in MGS4, with an exclusive command to turn belly up while crawling.
Again, what exactly did that accomplish to help the player?
Snake still crawls on his back if you've got your weapon drawn in MGSV. If what you guys mean when you say MGS4 had better gameplay than V is that type of shit, then yeah, it had more of that. But that doesn't make for better gameplay.
The camo system was streamlined for V, sure. You don't have to keep pressing a button to adjust your camo every 12 steps because the game had nothing else for your to do from point A to point B, or Z.
Having to think less frequently about my camouflage, but still having to think about it strategically, and more about the enemies around me in V is a good thing, not a bad one. I'm more focused on what matters and what makes the infiltration experience what it is: outsmarting the enemy.
You all keep saying MGSV is easy as pie and yet I never hear you people talk about how easy it is to get No Traces in every mission without looking it up in some guide.
Yeah, MGSV is accessible and not obtusely difficult like Dark Souls, but there are levels of achievement within the game for every level of player.
Just because even poor players can get through this game and you got through it easily using the easiest and most accessible method available doesn't mean MGSV has bad gameplay or that it doesn't differentiate between the cream of the crop and the common players with one form or another of mode or achievement.
MGSV is the better game because it can be played by anyone at any level. Regardless, I'd also like to say that despite all of this discussion MGS4 is top 3 for me in the franchise.
Last edited:
lucius
Member
Yeah the prologue and Ground Zeros was very boring to me. But the gameplay of V is maybe best of series. It’s Peacewalker but expanded on and updated better, thing is I kind of hated it at first the slowmo and the added extra menu stuff was similar to Peacewalker but seemed too much. But the way you can run, stop turn, change directions compared to something like RD2 it is amazing how smooth it still is. You can tackle many missions in different ways and it will still be fun changing buddy systems calling in different strikes or support. Also there is a good balance of difficulty, where you have enough tools or places to hide when you die there still that sense of oh I know what I can try the next time.
Arachnid
Member
That wasn't meant to be a rant man. You wanted me to elaborate on what was removed so I did. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You're right. That is a somewhat pointless gameplay addition. It also doesn't help your argument at all because you could do that exact same movement in MGSV.
So they kept that for some reason while stripping more important stealth game staples like camo index, health management, and sound management.
It was too hard for you to change an outfit and to blend in? The camo system wasn't complicated. Arguing in favor of dumbing that down doesn't make sense. That is part of the strategy in a stealth game. That is part of "outsmarting the enemy". If all you're doing is walking around an open world while avoiding cones of vision, there isn't much "outsmarting" involved.
Doing no traces in any stealth game is the hardest thing to do. You could make any game more difficult by adding self-imposed restrictions like that. Difficulty should come from difficulty options, not bs like that.
Also, It was a lot easier to do 'No Traces' in MGSV than in MGS4 or older Splinter Cell games. It really isn't difficult to pull off without a guide.
-Not for more hardcore stealth players, which is why they should have been difficulty options.
Sorry man, but that is a load crap. I agree the game is fun, but it isn't half the stealth game prior entries are or games like Splinter Cell. This isn't a hardcore RPG MMORPG like WoW that needs streamlining on the 50 different aspects you have to track. Stuff like the camo index, sound monitoring, difficulty options, and health/psych management are all staples of the stealth genre and they're boons to the gameplay.
Also, your entire post just agreed with me. My first post said
To which you replied:
I then elaborated on everything that was stripped from the gameplay (all HUGE gameplay elements in prior games) to dumb down the game. Now you're saying all that stuff is stripped to make it more accessible to new players, which is exactly what I said in my first post that you felt the need to contradict in the first place. I'm not sure what you're arguing.
It's like going from Chaos Theory to Blacklist. There is no sound or light meter, Sam has a one touch melee instant kill button, and the stealth is super binary (you are either visible in the light or invisible in the dark). Blacklist was a damn good game but there is no denying that it's not half the stealth game Chaos Theory was. 'Streamlining' in a stealth game is just dumbing it down and taking away from the core stealth experience. Accessibility should come from difficulty options.
Last edited:
Roni
Gold Member
I didn't say it was hard to manage the camo index, but I would say it is annoying.
And accessibility in the form of streamlining the gameplay is a valid and very profitable strategy. You may not like it because you're looking for something closer to a simulator, but that's on you for wanting something explicitly more complex instead of just more fun.
Also, you're quoting someone else thinking it was me...
Last edited:
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
xool
Member
It's a great game for people who didn't enjoy the previous metal gear too (me). Sorry for the original fans though, at least they got Ground Zeros I suppose.
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
andreymagnus
Member
It is a fine game with some great moments and some problems. Played over 130 hours of MGS V and I can definitely say that I liked it
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Rick Dangerous
Member
Im very LTTP. Just played this after Horizon the frozen wilds...well as a huge mgs fan, i Hated the 10 hours i just spent.
Just this button when in the middle of a fight you jump and crawl and get killed drives me mad. I quit now after 5 missions completed.
The only open world i loked was horizon. This one is so boring. It s a job, not a game.
Arrgg. Never touch this again.
Just this button when in the middle of a fight you jump and crawl and get killed drives me mad. I quit now after 5 missions completed.
The only open world i loked was horizon. This one is so boring. It s a job, not a game.
Arrgg. Never touch this again.
sonomamashine
Member
Couldn't agree more soldier.
Guilty_AI
Member
Funny enough i found MGSV to be far more enjoyable than other open world games i've played (including critically acclaimed games like GTAV or RDR2).
Unlike the others, the gameplay loop is pretty solid and dynamic. While the story definitely isn't a strong point, i found the way it was told to be pretty good. It didn't felt intrusive like other story-driven games (or even past MGS's) and it adapted to the gameplay-driven nature of the game.
Unlike the others, the gameplay loop is pretty solid and dynamic. While the story definitely isn't a strong point, i found the way it was told to be pretty good. It didn't felt intrusive like other story-driven games (or even past MGS's) and it adapted to the gameplay-driven nature of the game.
Grinchy
Banned
If the awesome gameplay was paired with an awesome MGS storyline, it would have been one of the best Metal Gear games of the series.
Guilty_AI
Member
But admittedly, it would be kinda hard to make an MGS-style story while still maintaining player control.
Grinchy
Banned
Sure, but a few of the things they had in the game were pretty damn good and pretty worthy of MGS-style story. The hospital segment, especially. You can just tell that development wasn't going properly.
There is a point at the end where you literally sit in the back of a car facing the bad guy, in complete silence, for minutes and the game, having no idea what to do, just starts playing a song again
It's so obvious that more was planned for the narrative. There is cut content of chapter 3 you can find on youtube as well, so we know there was stuff that was cut in general. I just think a ton of story aspects got sliced out while they were fighting with Kojima.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Gameplay 10/10
Story non existent.
Story non existent.