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[Negotiator101]

See this here is a great example of what I was referring to earlier in the thread, when I said:

Although to be fair, there is some loss of detail in that demo screengrab due to YouTube's compression and the lower bitrate.

Every publisher touches up their screenshots though.

 

[mortal]

Every publisher touches up their screenshots though.

Many publishers do, but not every one of them does.

I wasn't sure If I was just wrong or if there was some bullshoting going on.
So many titles now also have some type of in-game screenshot editor, making it possible to recreate within the retail versions.
I did get some pushback, so maybe I was wrong.

 

[sendit]

See this here is a great example of what I was referring to earlier in the thread, when I said:

Although to be fair, there is some loss of detail in that demo screengrab due to YouTube's compression and the lower bitrate.

Didn't think the obvious needed to be stated when comparing the two screen shots. But it doesn't fit the agenda that is being pushed.

I think quit a bit of people will be eating crow once this game releases. Including myself.

 

[mortal]

Didn't think this needed to be stated when comparing the two screen shots. But it doesn't fit the agenda that is being pushed.

I think quit a bit of people will be eating crow once this game releases. Including myself.

Sorry, I don't follow. What agenda?

Man, I can't type for shit today lol

 

[RoadHazard]

It is.

Look at speed at which Spiderman swings.

It's just not polished to next gen shine. In other words, is only using the SSD, not the teraflops.

To be fair, it's impressive what the PS5 can do with just the SSD. Imagine when they start using the GPU too!

 

[Stafford]

Every publisher touches up their screenshots though.

Rockstar being really guilty of. Their screenshots for GTA IV for example were so damn clean, it then came out and it was nothing like it. None of the shots showed the horrible grain the game has, those grainy shadows and what not. Same story for RDR2, incredibly crisp and clean screenshots but it just is not that clean on console. PC I guess?


But as for Spidey 2, I think people were expecting a generational leap over the first one because this is PS5 only? It's absolutely not as good looking as the announcement trailer and iirc it did say ingame? Not sure. I'm sure it will be a good improvement over the first and MM, but probably not as huge as folks expected.

 

[hyperbertha]

To be fair, it's impressive what the PS5 can do with just the SSD. Imagine when they start using the GPU too!

They will only start using the GPU later in the gen. To keep suspense.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Game looks mediocre. Never understood the praise the first game got, it was average at best.

Kind of true. It wasn't bad by any means, but the combat was average, a worse version of Arkham. The AI was shit, you couldn't really stealth it all and their behaviour wouldn't change. The MJ and Miles levels were horrible. And the lab puzzles were trash, though you could skip them.

Miles Morales was better, it was smaller and more focused. I enjoyed it more.

 

[staticshock]

It is.

Look at speed at which Spiderman swings.

It's just not polished to next gen shine. In other words, is only using the SSD, not the teraflops.

You can swing faster than that in Spiderman PC using a mod without SSD/IO.
It has nothing to do with "next gen".

 

[lh032]

Kind of true. It wasn't bad by any means, but the combat was average, a worse version of Arkham. The AI was shit, you couldn't really stealth it all and their behaviour wouldn't change. The MJ and Miles levels were horrible. And the lab puzzles were trash, though you could skip them.

Miles Morales was better, it was smaller and more focused. I enjoyed it more.

I played both arkham and spiderman, arkham was worse imo. I had more fun playing spiderman.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

I played both arkham and spiderman, arkham was worse imo. I had more fun playing spiderman.

Same. I like Arkham and enjoyed it, but something about Spiderman's take is more fun for me. Zipping around in combat, webbing enemies into the air or launching them, then zipping to another target, etc.. I like the fast paced action. I really enjoyed this game but went in with zero expectations.

 

[Msamy]

You can swing faster than that in Spiderman PC using a mod without SSD/IO.
It has nothing to do with "next gen".

Ssd really affects the next generation experience much but not as much as they sale it to us there are other many things that they are missed in this gen

 

[UniformDeliverance]

We doing puddle-gate again with this one? Keep in mind this is an open world game in a city. Lots of reflections, items, NPCs.. I think the game looks great and I’m not sure what people are expecting.

 

[Dr. Claus]

We doing puddle-gate again with this one? Keep in mind this is an open world game in a city. Lots of reflections, items, NPCs.. I think the game looks great and I’m not sure what people are expecting.

People were expecting to see the new changes/updates instead of... more of the same. From a sequel supposedly 5+ years in the making on a next generation system. The only thing we have really seen that "leveraged the power of the PS5" as some would say, would be the quick switch thanks to SSD and quite frankly saving a whole 4-8 seconds isn't that impressive to me.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Guys guys guys I think I finally got it. What’s going on here that is.

So Spider-Man is being positioned as a major gaming franchise. It will not be on the prestige of say a Last of Us, a Horizon, a New IP.

Instead, they’re treating it like COD/Madden/FIFA sort of. Fully catering to a completely casual market who knows nothing about graphics and will just skip the cutscenes, beat the tutorial and swing around the city before dropping the game.

Ergo, SM2018, SM:MM, and now SM2 are just sort of all DLC’s of each other and they’re phoning in the graphics to save money to net a higher profit from casuals because they know it’ll sell millions of copies to them whether it looks impressive or not.

 

[PeteBull]

We doing puddle-gate again with this one? Keep in mind this is an open world game in a city. Lots of reflections, items, NPCs.. I think the game looks great and I’m not sure what people are expecting.

Puddle gate was 100% real, screenshots posted by insomaniac are ofc touched up, aka bullshots, ofc for ur common casual they look very close to the real thing, but still those arent actual screens from the game and on top dev feels urge to fake them then present them as real, thats low blow.
Personally im perfectly fine with how actual spiderman 2 gameplay looks like, its not gamebreaking visuals but still 9/10 in my book, but thats another story.

 

[bad guy]

Just learn from it and don't do the hype again or else you'll get motorstormed.

 

[Doctor Hades]

The game looks fantastic to me and will only be more polished by the time of its release. The Remaster and Miles Morales still look amazing to my eyes with RT and a near locked 60 fps on a console that has weak ray-tracing hardware from AMD. Insomniac never disappoint with their games, whether it is graphics, audio or gameplay, in my opinion so I doubt Spider-Man 2 will be any different. Personally, I want comic book style visuals in a superhero game like this and not photo-realistic graphics because that has a more pleasing aesthetic and style to my eyes. Once you get to photo-realism then where else is there to go?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Puddle gate was 100% real, screenshots posted by insomaniac are ofc touched up, aka bullshots, ofc for ur common casual they look very close to the real thing, but still those arent actual screens from the game and on top dev feels urge to fake them then present them as real, thats low blow.
Personally im perfectly fine with how actual spiderman 2 gameplay looks like, its not gamebreaking visuals but still 9/10 in my book, but thats another story.

Not necessarily, because Insomniac/Sony studios do not usually do that kind of stuff.

The more logical explanation is that the screenshots are from a newer build, while the vertical slice they cut and edited of course had to be at least a couple of months old by now.

 

[Msamy]

The game looks fantastic to me and will only be more polished by the time of its release. The Remaster and Miles Morales still look amazing to my eyes with RT and a near locked 60 fps on a console that has weak ray-tracing hardware from AMD. Insomniac never disappoint with their games, whether it is graphics, audio or gameplay, in my opinion so I doubt Spider-Man 2 will be any different. Personally, I want comic book style visuals in a superhero game like this and not photo-realistic graphics because that has a more pleasing aesthetic and style to my eyes. Once you get to photo-realism then where else is there to go?

No one ask for photo realistic we asked for next gen experience not just iterative upgrade as digital foundry said , rift apart looks next gen upgrade, that's what we want for spiderman 2

 

[mckmas8808]

Puddle gate was 100% real, screenshots posted by insomaniac are ofc touched up, aka bullshots, ofc for ur common casual they look very close to the real thing, but still those arent actual screens from the game and on top dev feels urge to fake them then present them as real, thats low blow.
Personally im perfectly fine with how actual spiderman 2 gameplay looks like, its not gamebreaking visuals but still 9/10 in my book, but thats another story.

Puddlegate was stupid because the actual game looked 95% as good as that OG trailer in most spots and better in others.

 

[PeteBull]

Puddlegate was stupid because the actual game looked 95% as good as that OG trailer in most spots and better in others.

Game was made specially better/polished for trailer, then downgraded in same spot for launch product, ofc overall qality was amazing still.

 

[Heisenberg007]

No one ask for photo realistic we asked for next gen experience not just iterative as digital foundry said , rift apart looks next gen upgrade, that's what we want for spiderman 2

So does Spider-Man. A proper next-gen experience graphically (as can be seen below) as well as gameplay mechanics (the faster traversal and flying).

 

[Msamy]

So does Spider-Man. A proper next-gen experience graphically (as can be seen below) as well as gameplay mechanics (the faster traversal and flying).

no Spiderman 2 in that showcase looks disappointed as hell even digital foundry state that no new technology have been used other than better buildings models and applying rt in water , other wise its core tech remains the same and not even use rt shadows as spider man pc version , that's not next gen to me , spider man 2 in that last showcase looks like shit compared to horizon forbidden west (cross gen title )

 

[Agent_4Seven]

A proper next-gen experience graphically (as can be seen below)

Meanwhile in GTA V:


The game was primarily made for PS3.

as well as gameplay mechanics (the faster traversal and flying).

Nothing says next-gen more than "faster traversal and flying" in a game primarily made for PS4 (both SP and MM) and which changing absolutely nothing when it comes to gameplay experience and open world gameplay, content and design. You can web swing almost as fast in PS3 games as in a PS4 game and open world content and gameplay changes are even less drastic. Don't even get my started on that SM2 being PS5 only game, changes absolutely nothing as well in comparison to PS4 games except faster loading times.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Meanwhile in GTA V:


The game was primarily made for PS3.

Yeah that looks like shit and absolutely isn't comparable. Why even post that?

Nothing says next-gen more than "faster traversal and flying" in a game primarily made for PS4 (both SP and MM) and which changing absolutely nothing when it comes to gameplay experience and open world gameplay, content and design. You can web swing almost as fast in PS3 games as in a PS4 game and open world content and gameplay changes are even less drastic. Don't even get my started on that SM2 being PS5 only game, changes absolutely nothing as well in comparison to PS4 games except faster loading times.

The gameplay experience is literally affected by faster traversal and flying because, apart from gameplay, that's what you do in a Spider-Man game. You traverse and swing. That's literally gameplay.

 

[Heisenberg007]

no Spiderman 2 in that showcase looks disappointed as hell even digital foundry state that no new technology have been used other than better buildings models and applying rt in water , other wise its core tech remains the same and not even use rt shadows as spider man pc version , that's not next gen to me , spider man 2 in that last showcase looks like shit compared to horizon forbidden west (cross gen title )

HFW and Spider-Man 2 have very different games. Why compare them?

The things that are happening in HFW (complex CPU calculations, big machines, destruction and craftable components) and the things that are happening in Spider-Man 2 (building density, hundreds of NPCs, faster traversal, switching b/w multiple characters) are different.

Both look amazing on their own.

And I don't care what anybody or even Digital Foundry says. The proof is in the pudding. We can literally see the 2 photos I posted above. There is a generational leap between the two. Just look with your own eyes and make a decision.

 

[Msamy]

HFW and Spider-Man 2 have very different games. Why compare them?

The things that are happening in HFW (complex CPU calculations, big machines, destruction and craftable components) and the things that are happening in Spider-Man 2 (building density, hundreds of NPCs, faster traversal, switching b/w multiple characters) are different.

Both look amazing on their own.

And I don't care what anybody or even Digital Foundry says. The proof is in the pudding. We can literally see the 2 photos I posted above. There is a generational leap between the two. Just look with your own eyes and make a decision.

no go see showcase gameplay and spider man 2018 and you will see what i mean , some youtuber do that comparison but he is banned here , you may find this comparison in first page in this thread , and yes we can compare spider man 2 and horizon forbidden west both are open world and hfw is cross gen title which have , way better lighting , way better character models , way better textures , way better water technology and etc , also i don't like to make excuse or pretend that showcase looks good , i tell the truth this showcase sure not look like next gen to me, and there is only one option for me here that this build that they shown was very old build and the final release will look a lot better other than that this just shit for next gen game

 

[Agent_4Seven]

The gameplay experience is literally affected by faster traversal and flying because, apart from gameplay, that's what you do in a Spider-Man game. You traverse and swing. That's literally gameplay.

I've played both games and PS3 games, there's literally no noticeable (let alone drastic) difference in traversal and flying between PS3, PS4 and PS5, you can only see the difference in production and budget. What's so next-gen about that anyway if the game is not even next-gen visually in a true sense of the word and faster loading times aside? Forbidden West looks miles better on PS5 even in performance mode with clean af PQ and asset quality.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Game looks amazing , but visually its not that much of an upgrade. I guess its really left for Forza to push next gen graphics this year

 

[vaibhavpisal]

The following is the summary of Digital Foundry's analysis of Spider-Man 2:

And I don't care what anybody or even Digital Foundry says. The proof is in the pudding. We can literally see the 2 photos I posted above. There is a generational leap between the two. Just look with your own eyes and make a decision.

You just recently quoted Digital Foundry in other thread to prove your point.

Can't make this up

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Also, have someone here forgot that original PS4 game had way better water rendering than PS5 and PC version has now and SM2 as well? DF haven't even mentioned it in their video.

 

[Doctor Hades]

No one ask for photo realistic we asked for next gen experience not just iterative upgrade as digital foundry said , rift apart looks next gen upgrade, that's what we want for spiderman 2

So you don't think a game that has features that the last gen could not support, like the catapult move and near-instant character swaps are next gen upgrades?

Honestly, what it is it exactly that you are expecting? Seriously, I am curious to know because other than the dodgy LOD I cannot see where else they can improve the game based what we've seen is only 11 minutes of gameplay from a, likely, 15-20 hour campaign so there may be other things that Insomniac are keeping quiet about for now until nearer the game's release.

What exactly makes a game "next-gen" in your eyes? I mean the thread title mentions the graphics being disappointing but in what way could they be better if not more photo-realistic which you say isn't what people want? Most improvements in games are iterative anyway; things like subtle improvements to physics, AI and so on to make them more immersive and entertaining. The most noticeable improvements gen-on-gen are usually the graphics because you can immediately see those but that isn't necessary what makes a game next-gen for me. It's about all the other things that go to make the complete package. Great as Ratchet & Crank: Rift Apart was (and still is), apart from the dimension transitions at certain points and the massive improvement to the visuals, the actual gameplay was very similar to the previous games so I would argue that wasn't really next-gen either. Are you implying that only games with amazing graphics are "next-gen"?

 

[Senua]

Also, have someone here forgot that original PS4 game had way better water rendering than PS5 and PC version has now and SM2 as well? DF haven't even mentioned it in their video.

power of jaguar cores bro

 

[Skifi28]

no Spiderman 2 in that showcase looks disappointed as hell even digital foundry state that no new technology have been used other than better buildings models and applying rt in water , other wise its core tech remains the same and not even use rt shadows as spider man pc version , that's not next gen to me , spider man 2 in that last showcase looks like shit compared to horizon forbidden west (cross gen title )

What new technlology would a game even have when compared to three years ago? Why would you want RT shadows on console? Waste of resources on hardware that's terrible at RT.

 

[Banjo64]

Just revisiting this thread.

When I watched it live and saw the jungle in the initial scene my first thought was ‘Factions?’ (ND trademark I suppose).

Within a few seconds of looking at the character model and foliage though, I actually thought it was one of Sony’s b-tier studios (Bend was who came to mind).

I know there’s time to polish, but not a good impression considering Sony pride themselves on graphical prowess as one of their key selling points.

 

[CGNoire]

So you don't think a game that has features that the last gen could not support, like the catapult move

SM2 on Ps2 in 2004 had the exact same move and let you Travel just as Fast as you do here.

 

[Msamy]

What new technlology would a game even have when compared to three years ago? Why would you want RT shadows on console? Waste of resources on hardware that's terrible at RT.

not that i want rt shadows , that an example only , they can use better character models lighting and textures as horizon forbidden west

 

[Msamy]

So you don't think a game that has features that the last gen could not support, like the catapult move and near-instant character swaps are next gen upgrades?

Honestly, what it is it exactly that you are expecting? Seriously, I am curious to know because other than the dodgy LOD I cannot see where else they can improve the game based what we've seen is only 11 minutes of gameplay from a, likely, 15-20 hour campaign so there may be other things that Insomniac are keeping quiet about for now until nearer the game's release.

What exactly makes a game "next-gen" in your eyes? I mean the thread title mentions the graphics being disappointing but in what way could they be better if not more photo-realistic which you say isn't what people want? Most improvements in games are iterative anyway; things like subtle improvements to physics, AI and so on to make them more immersive and entertaining. The most noticeable improvements gen-on-gen are usually the graphics because you can immediately see those but that isn't necessary what makes a game next-gen for me. It's about all the other things that go to make the complete package. Great as Ratchet & Crank: Rift Apart was (and still is), apart from the dimension transitions at certain points and the massive improvement to the visuals, the actual gameplay was very similar to the previous games so I would argue that wasn't really next-gen either. Are you implying that only games with amazing graphics are "next-gen"?

so we buy shit next gen consoles to have instant characters swap , all i can say to you that some moders in pc managed to do that in 2018 Spiderman without ssd , also rift apart looks generational ahead in both gameplay and graphics (not just dimensions transitions as you said) and for your last question go see burning shores final boss to know what the next generation for me , you guys just making excuses for developers to give us shit

 

[Skifi28]

go see burning shores final boss to know what the next generation for me , you guys just making excuses for developers to give us shit

We've had huge bosses that take up entire levels since at least the PS3. While the spectacle was nice, the fight itself was mediocre and I didn't notice anything that hasn't been done before.

"Next-gen" means different things to different people and I fear that those expecting to be blown away by graphics will have a terrible time if it hasn't been apparent already in the last three years. As for me, next-gen has been about 99% of games having a 60fps mode which couldn't technically be done on the previous consoles. We can zoom at screenshots to count pixels or do math to try and calculate if the lighting is correct based on the angle of the sun, but in the end the framerate will always be the most obvious change that benefits both graphics and gameplay.

 

[Msamy]

We've had huge bosses that take up entire levels since at least the PS3. While the spectacle was nice, the fight itself was mediocre and I didn't notice anything that hasn't been done before.

"Next-gen" means different things to different people and I fear that those expecting to be blown away by graphics will have a terrible time if it hasn't been apparent already in the last three years. As for me, next-gen has been about 99% of games having a 60fps mode which couldn't technically be done on the previous consoles. We can zoom at screenshots to count pixels or do math to try and calculate if the lighting is correct based on the angle of the sun, but in the end the framerate will always be the most obvious change that benefits both graphics and gameplay.

so by your opinion we just buy next gen for just this 60 fps shit , this clearly not reason for me , i bought ps5 to have better overall experience not just (this shit 60 fps )

 

[hyperbertha]

HFW and Spider-Man 2 have very different games. Why compare them?

The things that are happening in HFW (complex CPU calculations, big machines, destruction and craftable components) and the things that are happening in Spider-Man 2 (building density, hundreds of NPCs, faster traversal, switching b/w multiple characters) are different.

Both look amazing on their own.

And I don't care what anybody or even Digital Foundry says. The proof is in the pudding. We can literally see the 2 photos I posted above. There is a generational leap between the two. Just look with your own eyes and make a decision.

Yes we saw and concluded that sm2 looks barely different than the PS4 game. It's readily apparent. Generational leap lmao.

 

[hyperbertha]

So you don't think a game that has features that the last gen could not support, like the catapult move and near-instant character swaps are next gen upgrades?

Honestly, what it is it exactly that you are expecting? Seriously, I am curious to know because other than the dodgy LOD I cannot see where else they can improve the game based what we've seen is only 11 minutes of gameplay from a, likely, 15-20 hour campaign so there may be other things that Insomniac are keeping quiet about for now until nearer the game's release.

What exactly makes a game "next-gen" in your eyes? I mean the thread title mentions the graphics being disappointing but in what way could they be better if not more photo-realistic which you say isn't what people want? Most improvements in games are iterative anyway; things like subtle improvements to physics, AI and so on to make them more immersive and entertaining. The most noticeable improvements gen-on-gen are usually the graphics because you can immediately see those but that isn't necessary what makes a game next-gen for me. It's about all the other things that go to make the complete package. Great as Ratchet & Crank: Rift Apart was (and still is), apart from the dimension transitions at certain points and the massive improvement to the visuals, the actual gameplay was very similar to the previous games so I would argue that wasn't really next-gen either. Are you implying that only games with amazing graphics are "next-gen"?

Spiderman 3 on PS3 had catapult, and flew far greater distances.
When people say next gen they mostly mean visuals. I don't see how this is so hard to understand.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Yes we saw and concluded that sm2 looks barely different than the PS4 game. It's readily apparent. Generational leap lmao.

If you can't see the difference in the following 2 photos, then you're trolling (which makes sense, considering your post history) or you're lying. But at least be honest with yourself.

So does Spider-Man. A proper next-gen experience graphically (as can be seen below) as well as gameplay mechanics (the faster traversal and flying).

 

[Heisenberg007]

You just recently quoted Digital Foundry in other thread to prove your point.

Can't make this up

I did. But you missed the point.

My point was not that DF is right. My point was that one person is saying water rendering looks bad; the other person says water rendering looks good.

But the confusion is understandable because I didn't add any comment and only posted Digital Foundry's comment. But that was the intention of my post.

 

[John Wick]

I told you the media spin has already begun, mental gymnastics to begin downplaying the flaws meanwhile praising the tiniest improvements as immense all the while claiming the people dissapointed are insane/unreasonable. Shit is like clockwork, all that remains is a buzzword calling it a "visual tour de force on the ps5". They just cannot criticize the big studios...always the safety bubble scenario.

If he said there were issues that he is sure will get improved it would be understandable but to feign ignorance is disappointing from digital foundry. These guys used to be so enthusiastic about tech advancements in past generations.

Unfinished game looks rough news at 10.
So what your saying is the gameplay demo that they showed using a work in progress game should look better than the finished game or post release patched game. Okay...........

 

[hyperbertha]

If you can't see the difference in the following 2 photos, then you're trolling (which makes sense, considering your post history) or you're lying. But at least be honest with yourself.

If you see any generational leap you're the one who's trolling. Like the only difference is time of day and higher draw distance.

 

[Heisenberg007]

If you see any generational leap you're the one who's trolling. Like the only difference is time of day and higher draw distance.

• Higher draw distance
• Better Lighting
• Extra foliage
• Improved water quality
• Improved asset quality
• Reflections in buildings
• Higher poly and better geometry

In addition, (1) buildings now have better reflections, and (2) there are NPCs within the buildings that move, act, and look at Spider-Man like normal NPCs.

And if you can't see ANY of what I mentioned above, should you should even be "analyzing" or commenting on threads about games visuals and graphics?

 

[john2gr]

You can swing faster than that in Spiderman PC using a mod without SSD/IO.
It has nothing to do with "next gen".

This needs to be quoted on every page TBH. The swing speed and the distance that it covers are way bigger than what Spiderman 2 does. So no, Spiderman 2 is not using any secret I/O SSD sauce.

 

[PeteBull]

Not necessarily, because Insomniac/Sony studios do not usually do that kind of stuff.

The more logical explanation is that the screenshots are from a newer build, while the vertical slice they cut and edited of course had to be at least a couple of months old by now.

I think its on game by game basis, we do have access to first spiderman 2 trailer, lemme post it again:

Ofc it was very likely target render/ingame cinematic/running in engine, all those tech words, which mean not actual gameplay simply
Kinda like back then UC4 60fps teaser trailer
I fully understand game can look visibly worse vs trailer from 2-3years before launch.

Same thing here, last of us part 2 e3 gameplay reveal trailer, pay attention to enemy faces in supposed gameplay, those were touched up too vs actual game .

All those games look great to this very day, 0 complains from me but cant say lies about sony studios not doing bullshots, including parts of their trailers