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Media Create Sales: Week 19, 2016 (May 09 - May 15)

horuhe

Member
I mean, ya, most conditions look good next to a corpse. Losing, potentially, 100k sales on the newer,would-be 'healthy' platform while the old melts away like the Wicked Witch of the West, is not what I'd call encouraging.

What a comparison, lol. Well, I was referring more to the percentages. The PS4 version would be around 40% less, and the PS3 version would be around 80% less. I mean, the Musou curse is there, but some resisted better than others, haha.

I still think the 3DS will remain the lead hardware platform this year, Pokemon is just too large of a juggernaut, especially if its paired with a price drop. Admittedly, I don't actually expect much in the way of sustained or major affects on hardware from Persona or Final Fantasy, they're too expected and established, and many who would buy hardware have long-since jumped in with other jRPGs.

Yeah, I can buy you argument, especially for the reasons you mentioned, but there's only 30k difference between PS4 and 3DS this year, it's been a battle, and a really difficult one to determine who will win.
 

Vena

Member
What a comparison, lol. Well, I was referring more to the percentages. The PS4 version would be around 40% less, and the PS3 version would be around 80% less. I mean, the Musou curse is there, but some resisted better than others, haha.

I don't think its really a resistance against the curse, more that everything fell hard but some of the old PS3 user base has transitioned to the PS4. There's a convolution of Musou curse, transitioning audience, side-transition to PSV, and lost audience (for both Musou and the PS ecosystem).

And I like using fun comparisons!

Yeah, I can buy you argument, especially for the reasons you mentioned, but there's only 30k difference between PS4 and 3DS this year, it's been a battle, and a really difficult one to determine who will win.

The gap is closer to 100k, the 2DS is a big chunk on there.
 

Maniel

Banned
Week 21, 2016 (May 23 - May 29)
YSO predictions

01. [PS4] Dragon Quest Heroes II: Futago no Ou to Yogen no Owari < 160k (average 135k)
02. [PSV] Dragon Quest Heroes II: Futago no Ou to Yogen no Owari < 120k (average 100k)
03. [PS3] Dragon Quest Heroes II: Futago no Ou to Yogen no Owari < 70k (average 55k)
00. [PS4+PSV+PS3] Dragon Quest Heroes II: Futago no Ou to Yogen no Owari < 350k (average 290k)
00. [PS4] Overwatch < 50k (average 45k)
That's pretty disappointing for the first and likely only DQ game on Vita. Yes, I know about the Musou curse, but it's still disappointing.
 

Takao

Banned
That's pretty disappointing for the first and likely only DQ game on Vita. Yes, I know about the Musou curse, but it's still disappointing.

It's disappointing that Vita has the best selling version of Dragon Quest Builders, and the second best selling version of a Musou game? Not really. Musou games have always been more popular on home consoles. Sony's commercials for the game play that up too, pretending it's another PS4-only release.
 

Maniel

Banned
It's disappointing that Vita has the best selling version of Dragon Quest Builders, and the second best selling version of a Musou game? Not really. Musou games have always been more popular on home consoles.
Whoops, I forgot about builders. And about your point of having the second best selling version of both games, that's not really my issue. It's that this game will see big drops from the first one despite Vita being added to the mix.
 

L~A

Member
Yeah, I mostly agree with you. But, imo 3DS won't have any impact (or at least a smaller one) on the YoY comparison. PS4 should be the star this year, and as Vena said a price drop for 3DS in Japan will be the only way it could affect this variable.

My point was: the only way HW could be up this year is if 3DS sales don't drop too much / remain stable. Because I honestly don't see the PS4 be able to compensate for a big drop in sales for the 3DS (+ the "written on the wall" big drop for the Wii U).
 

Vena

Member
It's disappointing that Vita has the best selling version of Dragon Quest Builders, and the second best selling version of a Musou game? Not really. Musou games have always been more popular on home consoles. Sony's commercials for the game play that up too, pretending it's another PS4-only release.

What a great way to engender confidence in your audience.
 

Takao

Banned
Whoops, I forgot about builders. And about your point of having the second best selling version of both games, that's not really my issue. It's that this game will see big drops from the first one despite Vita being added to the mix.

Unless it has 0 legs, DQH2 should be the best selling Musou on Vita.

Musou sequels always drop now. It's an inevitability. The Vita version exists to try to ensure the sequel isn't dropping even more than it naturally would had it stayed PS3/PS4.

What a great way to engender confidence in your audience.

They've also done that with Attack on Titan, One Piece: Burning Blood and I'm sure some other games I've forgotten. Good luck to Koei Tecmo if they let Sony pull that with Toukiden 2.
 

Maniel

Banned
Unless it has 0 legs, DQH2 should be the best selling Musou on Vita.

Musou sequels always drop now. It's an inevitability. The Vita version exists to try to ensure the sequel isn't dropping even more than it naturally would had it stayed PS3/PS4.
In regards to the bolded, that's actually encouraging to hear. Maybe I was just expecting more out of Dragon Quest, but I see now it's not immune to the Musou curse.
 

Takao

Banned
I do wonder if Square Enix's release schedule is taking a negative toll on all the DQ games. They've been doing bi-monthly DQ launches through the first six months of 2016 (DQX PS4 in July?). While they're all very different games, there's only so much you can take.
 

Vena

Member
I do wonder if Square Enix's release schedule is taking a negative toll on all the DQ games. They've been doing bi-monthly DQ launches through the first six months of 2016 (DQX PS4 in July?). While they're all very different games, there's only so much you can take.

Well they've been throwing everything at the wall at this point to try and get a stick for the home console market and for their own investments in said market, and Dragon Quest is their strongest domestic brand.

Of course, the unknown date and split/multi release on DQXI may well have undermined said "brand strength" with spin-offs flooding the market.
 
Another predicted drop for DQH sequel. Why am I not surprised here.

The sequel should clear 500k atleast and considering the original did more than 1 million for JP+Asia, I am curious to see what happens for the sequel in Asia.
 

Ōkami

Member
  1. [3DS] Kirby: Planet Robobot - 45
  2. [PS4] Homefront The Revolution - 38
  3. [PS4] Uncharted: The Pirate King and The Last Treasure (Deluxe Edition) - 36
  4. [PS4] DOOM - 21
  5. [3DS] Yo-Kai Sangokushi - 17
  6. [3DS] My Hero Academia: Battle for All - 16
  7. [PSV] Minecraft: PlayStation Vita Edition - 15
  8. [3DS] Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 3 - 14
  9. [PS4] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 2016 - 13
  10. [PS4] Uncharted: The Pirate King and The Last Treasure - 11
  11. [PS3] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 2016 - 11
  12. [PSV] Kencha Bancho Otome - 8
  13. [PSV] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 2016 - 7
  14. [PS4] Battleborn - 7
  15. [PS4] Dying Light: The Following - Enhanced Edition - 7
  16. [3DS] Monster Hunter Generations - 7
  17. [3DS] Ansatsu Kyoushitsu: Assassin Ikusei Keikaku!! - 7
  18. [WIU] Splatoon - 6
  19. [PS4] Grand Theft Auto V [New Price Edition] - 5
  20. [3DS] Pokémon AlphaSapphire - 5
 
Unless it has 0 legs, DQH2 should be the best selling Musou on Vita.

Since I typed it up for... somewhere else, might as well share here:

For reference, other Warriors on Vita, sorted by FW sales:

One Piece Pirate Warriors 2: 60,315 / 127,869
Dynasty Warriors Gundam Reborn: 54,667 / 121,954
One Piece Pirate Warriors 3: 54,308 / 80,779
Samurai Warriors 4: 39,597 / 103,614
Dynasty Warriors Next: 29,181 / 91,671
Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate: 25,483 / 60,100
Samurai Warriors 4-II: 23,519 / 39,423
Samurai Warriors Chronicles 3: 22,152 / 33,205
Samurai Warriors 4 Empires: 13,056 / 13,056
Dynasty Warriors 8 XL: 11,870 / 40,690
 

Ryng_tolu

Banned
Yeah, I can buy you argument, especially for the reasons you mentioned, but there's only 30k difference between PS4 and 3DS this year, it's been a battle, and a really difficult one to determine who will win.

But that's the point :D so far 3DS is over PS4. Doesn't matter by how much, is head.

Holidays is always a stronger period for Nintendo, and i don't really see PS4 do better than 3DS, not with a new Pokèmon game and a pricedrop... And no, Persona and Final Fantasy won't be bigger.

EDIT: Maybe a new version of PS4 like the PS4 neo or who know, but that's the only chance i see, imo.
 

horuhe

Member
Rakuten Books Sales Ranking Week 20, 2016 (May 16 - May 22)

01./02. [3DS] Kirby: Planet Robobot <ACT> (Nintendo)
02./01. [PS4] Uncharted 4: A Thief's End <ADV> (Sony Computer Entertainment)
03./00. [PS4] Homefront: The Revolution <ACT> (Spike Chunsoft)
04./00. [PSV] Kenka Bancho Otome <ADV> (Spike Chunsoft)
05./16. [PS3] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 2016 <SPT> (Konami)
06./03. [PSV] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 2016 <SPT> (Konami)
07./04. [3DS] Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 3 <RPG> (Square Enix)
08./06. [WiiU] Splatoon <ACT> (Nintendo)
09./05. [3DS] Yo-Kai Sangokushi <SLG> (Level 5)
10./00. [PS4] Doom <ACT> (Bethesda Softworks)
11./00. [3DS] Boku no Hero Academia: Battle for All <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games)
12./09. [PS4] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 2016 <SPT> (Konami)
13./07. [PSV] Minecraft: PlayStation Vita Edition <ADV> (Sony Computer Entertainment)
14./00. [XB1] Homefront: The Revolution <ACT> (Spike Chunsoft)
15./00. [PSV] Period Cube: Torikago no Amadeus <ADV> (Idea Factory)
16./08. [WiiU] Super Mario Maker <ACT> (Nintendo)
17./17. [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf [Nintendo Selects] <ETC> (Nintendo)
18./11. [3DS] Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games <SPT> (Nintendo)
19./14. [PS4] Dark Souls III <RPG> (From Software)
20./00. [PS4] Battleborn <ACT> (Take-Two Interactive Japan)

Rakuten Books Pre-Orders Ranking Week 20, 2016 (May 16 - May 22)

01./01. [PS4] Dragon Quest Heroes II <RPG> (Square Enix)
02./03. [3DS] Ace Attorney 6 <ADV> (Capcom)
03./04. [PSV] Dragon Quest Heroes II <RPG> (Square Enix)
04./07. [PS3] Dragon Quest Heroes II <RPG> (Square Enix)
05./08. [PS4] Overwatch: Origins Edition <ACT> (Square Enix)
06./13. [3DS] Story of Seasons: Cherished Friends of Three Town <SLG> (Marvelous)
07./02. [PS4] Persona 5 (20th Anniversary Edition) <RPG> (Atlus)
08./15. [PS3] Guilty Gear Xrd: Revelator (Limited Edition) <FTG> (Arc System Works)
09./00. [PS4] Sengoku Basara: Legend of Sanada Yukimura (Limited Edition) <ACT> (Capcom)
10./14. [3DS] Yo-Kai Watch 3: Sushi / Tempura Set <RPG> (Level 5)

Rakuten Books Ranking Week 19, 2016 (May 9 - May 15)

* Note: Games on the Rakuten Books Rankings are only based on sales at Rakuten Books and does not count games sold by other retailers at Rakuten.
 

Vena

Member
EDIT: Maybe a new version of PS4 like the PS4 neo or who know, but that's the only chance i see, imo.

I think the Neo is going to be more trouble than gain in Japan, particularly if there really is a mandate on its performance/games. Thats even more work and Q&A time for low performing titles on an even worse performing console variant. Can you imagine if the 2DS had had a mandated "performance" specific for it with ever so slightly different hardware?
 

casiopao

Member
Another predicted drop for DQH sequel. Why am I not surprised here.

The sequel should clear 500k atleast and considering the original did more than 1 million for JP+Asia, I am curious to see what happens for the sequel in Asia.

Second musou Curse is real though. It is almost certain that it will happen.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
I think the Neo is going to be more trouble than gain in Japan, particularly if there really is a mandate on its performance/games. Thats even more work and Q&A time for low performing titles on an even worse performing console variant. Can you imagine if the 2DS had had a mandated "performance" specific for it with ever so slightly different hardware?
I dont think there will be any mandate in performance, how would that work? Only thing i can think of is a 1080p resolution, but that seems fairly trivial if the GPU is ~2x(?) more powerful, especially for lower performing titles (as in not pushing graphics that much).

Otherwise, i dont think QA costs will go up that much. The games will run on the same discs, so its likely to just automatically trigger graphical settings depending on if the disc is being inserted into a PS4 or PS4K. Imagine what a complete nightmare it would be on PC regarding QA if graphical settings ment a lot more QA time, where you can have hundreds of different graphics/resolution settings, and running on hundreds of different sets of hardware configurations.
 

Fdkn

Member
Almost every game is already 1080p on the base ps4 except some troublesome AAAs, so the rumored requirement of 1080p for Neo mode is irrelevant for the medium and low budget games, they're already there.
 

MacTag

Banned
I think the Neo is going to be more trouble than gain in Japan, particularly if there really is a mandate on its performance/games. Thats even more work and Q&A time for low performing titles on an even worse performing console variant. Can you imagine if the 2DS had had a mandated "performance" specific for it with ever so slightly different hardware?
2DS has the exact same architecture as 3DS. It'd be more like if Nintendo put some sort of performance mandate on 3DS games with n3DS like 60fps or something. Even n3DS isn't a great example since it's just an overclocked 3DS with extra cores and more RAM, while Neo is evidently a whole new architecture from PS4. Neo's really a new system being marketed as a revision and Sony's forcing cross compatibility in the process, we haven't really seen anything like it done before.
 
I thought DQH2 wouldn't drop so hard since they're expanding the scope plus adding multiplayer. What is it about Musou that causes such a steep drop off with sequels?
 

casiopao

Member
I thought DQH2 wouldn't drop so hard since they're expanding the scope plus adding multiplayer. What is it about Musou that causes such a steep drop off with sequels?

The freshness effect ended? Considering how huge usually musou game, i can see many ended getting bored before actually finishing the game so they are not bothering to get the second one.

I can even picture Hyrule Warriors 2 underperforming in the future here.^~^
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Almost every game is already 1080p on the base ps4 except some troublesome AAAs, so the rumored requirement of 1080p for Neo mode is irrelevant for the medium and low budget games, they're already there.
Good point. After i wrote my post and shut off the PC, i was wondering if perhaps most, if not all, PS4 games from japanese developers already are running in 1080p.


2DS has the exact same architecture as 3DS. It'd be more like if Nintendo put some sort of performance mandate on 3DS games with n3DS like 60fps or something. Even n3DS isn't a great example since it's just an overclocked 3DS with extra cores and more RAM, while Neo is evidently a whole new architecture from PS4. Neo's really a new system being marketed as a revision and Sony's forcing cross compatibility in the process, we haven't really seen anything like it done before.
PS4 Neo is running the same architecture as the PS4, but it has more powerful hardware. Its kinda like upgrading a PC. The hardware will be more powerful, but it will easily run the same OS and software.
 

MacTag

Banned
I can even picture Hyrule Warriors 2 underperforming in the future here.^~^
A theoretical HW2 could benefit from being both multiplatform and crossgen, plus the original has a super low bar to pass. I do sort of wonder if it's happening soonish given Koei Tecmo recently confirmed they still have Wii U software in development?

PS4 Neo is running the same architecture as the PS4, but it has more powerful hardware. Its kinda like upgrading a PC. The hardware will be more powerful, but it will easily run the same OS and software.
From my understanding it has a compatibility mode, but these are new chips and not upgraded chips, which is different from the mid-cycle handheld upgrades we're used to. It'd be like calling Wii U an upgraded Wii rather than a new architecture.
 
From my understanding it has a compatibility mode, but these are new chips and not upgraded chips, which is different from the mid-cycle handheld upgrades we're used to.
We don't know for certain, but the leaks strongly indicate upgraded hardware, not new chips. The API appears to make any changes at the micro level invisible to the developer.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
The freshness effect ended? Considering how huge usually musou game, i can see many ended getting bored before actually finishing the game so they are not bothering to get the second one.

I can even picture Hyrule Warriors 2 underperforming in the future here.^~^

There will be at least 2-3 years between HW and a potential HW2, HW 2 will also have had a maingame in between and be on the next generation. DQH2 is selling like this because SE have been dropping DQ spin-offs/remakes like every other month for a while and DQ Heroes just came out - yet we still are waiting on more concrete DQ11 launch details.

HW 2 will be just fine. DQH had the also the benefit of being the first Playstation DQ title in quite a while....that was a one time bonus though.
 
I thought DQH2 wouldn't drop so hard since they're expanding the scope plus adding multiplayer. What is it about Musou that causes such a steep drop off with sequels?

I think 14 months since the previous game really hasn't helped in these circumstances, combined with rapid Dragon Quest releases this year like Takao says.

OPPW 1 -> 2 was 12 months and saw almost exactly the same performance as DQH. Though, a 2 year gap from 2 -> 3 didn't stop a further drop off.
 

mao2

Member
DQH had the also the benefit of being the first Playstation DQ title in quite a while....that was a one time bonus though.
That's probably the reason why One Piece: Pirate Warriors sold so well too. The last One Piece title released on a PlayStation hardware was Pirates' Carnival in 2005. It was a huge 7 year gap. During this period all the One Piece games were exclusive to Nintendo hardware.
 

MacTag

Banned
We don't know for certain, but the leaks strongly indicate upgraded hardware, not new chips. The API appears to make any changes at the micro level invisible to the developer.
Well if the API abstracts everything then it's a non-issue. Although if Neo is actually Polaris based then that'd be a new chip rather than an upgraded existing chip, so still rather unlike something like n3DS.
 

L~A

Member
The freshness effect ended? Considering how huge usually musou game, i can see many ended getting bored before actually finishing the game so they are not bothering to get the second one.

I can even picture Hyrule Warriors 2 underperforming in the future here.^~^

If there's one Musou game one shouldn't be sure about, it's HW.

Wii U vs NX (console + handheld) is not something comparable (what's more, we know squat about the latter, especially sales potential).

If NX platform sells well, I'm expecting HW2 to do even better than HW.

A theoretical HW2 could benefit from being both multiplatform and crossgen, plus the original has a super low bar to pass. I do sort of wonder if it's happening soonish given Koei Tecmo recently confirmed they still have Wii U software in development?

No way there's a new HW in development for the Wii U. HWL and HW are getting DLC until November, so I don't see them releasing a new entry so soon after that. And a Wii U game in 2017 is pure commercial suicide (and no way Nintendo would greenlight it, especially with them waiting for March to release the NX... in order to have enough games at launch and in the following months to begin with).

If KT has been developing HW2 for a while and is planning to release it "soon", it'd be as a NX launch title.
 

Vena

Member
2.7 million, eh.

More like on the nose then, since that .2 is within a reasonable error bar.

Otherwise, i dont think QA costs will go up that much. The games will run on the same discs, so its likely to just automatically trigger graphical settings depending on if the disc is being inserted into a PS4 or PS4K. Imagine what a complete nightmare it would be on PC regarding QA if graphical settings ment a lot more QA time, where you can have hundreds of different graphics/resolution settings, and running on hundreds of different sets of hardware configurations.

Just of note, you don't Q&A for every machine on computers. Much of the performance is coming from driver support from external parties, and then internal performance benchmarks against ghost hardware profile (min/max settings and such). But PCs have the grace of being open platforms, so optimization can come from all sorts of places even internal control by the end-user on settings (and a lot of the times, that's where the actual optimization for "a machine" comes from (the end-user or drivers), and can lead to crashes or bugs, all of these basically being signs that nothing was extensively Q&Aed or at all). A console is fixed profiles, so each has to be Q&Aed extensively, especially if Sony is throwing on specific demands. No matter how you shake it, its more work for the developer and, in the case of Japan, its a nonsensical demand for a platform that no one will buy.
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
As for why I tend to talk about mobile in these threads given the games I play and that I can do long write-ups like these, frankly I just think the business side of the mobile industry is a lot more interesting than dedicated devices in Japan. On the dedicated device side, we see a bunch of publishers flailing around trying to figure out how to decline less quickly with a bunch of safe bets and low budget new (and sometimes old) ideas, with only a few standout products going against the curve. Over in mobile land, there's tons of investment and publishers (both new and old) are flooding the market with ideas trying to find paths to success and figure out where the quickly growing and evolving market is going. I think there's a lot more exciting (business) ideas to be seen on a frequent basis there as opposed to the dedicated industry where everything is ramping down and publishers are leaving (or at least culling down their domestic targeted investment).

It's weird, for me I find the business side of the dedicated devices to be much more interesting than what's going on in mobile... seems that Japanese mobile devs have settled into a formula that usually works - the F2P with IAP gatcha model, daily quests and incentives to log in every day. The same few games have been dominating the list for years, and games tied to an existing IP also do pretty well. But seeing how different companies who are normally strong on dedicated devices and bigger-budget titles cope with the loss of marketshare is more interesting:

-Companies looking toward Asia
-Companies looking toward Europe (which seemed to get the shaft from Japan for a long while)
-Companies looking inward, laser-focusing on otaku who still reliably spend money
-Companies realizing that, after a generation of the western press chastizing their games, there are actually a bunch of people over here who appreciate what Japan brings to the table in terms of game design and unique storylines/environmental design
-Companies discovering the PC and releasing their backlog of games on there.
-SE making more smaller budget RPGs and playing more to their core strengths in hope of stimulating console sales for their big-budget releases.
-Konami nearly completely bailing out from the marketplace.
-SNK dropping Pachinko and returning to console games
 

test_account

XP-39C²
From my understanding it has a compatibility mode, but these are new chips and not upgraded chips, which is different from the mid-cycle handheld upgrades we're used to. It'd be like calling Wii U an upgraded Wii rather than a new architecture.
The Giant Bomb rumors has the specs at being pretty much the same components, just being more powerful.


Just of note, you don't Q&A for every machine on computers. Much of the performance is coming from driver support from external parties, and then internal performance benchmarks against ghost hardware profile (min/max settings and such). But PCs have the grace of being open platforms, so optimization can come from all sorts of places even internal control by the end-user on settings (and a lot of the times, that's where the actual optimization for "a machine" comes from (the end-user or drivers), and can lead to crashes or bugs, all of these basically being signs that nothing was extensively Q&Aed or at all). A console is fixed profiles, so each has to be Q&Aed extensively, especially if Sony is throwing on specific demands. No matter how you shake it, its more work for the developer and, in the case of Japan, its a nonsensical demand for a platform that no one will buy.
Sure, i know, the example was just that if heavy QA testing were needed for every graphical settings, it would be a real nightmare on PC :)

QA is often done as an own initiative to make sure that the product works, not that its required by a 3rd party like Microsoft/Nintendo/Sony. Those have requirements that needs to be ok to pass certification, but not that it requires tons of extra QA. For example, look at recent Lichdom Battlemage, running at 10-15fps on PS4/Xbox One, and it still passed certification fine. And afterall, console games still have techincal issues like bugs and crashing, and i dont think that PC games/SKUS are riddled with a lot more bugs and crashes compared to console versions, so QA happends across all platforms.

Yeah, its extra work, but i doubt its in any amount that would really make or break anything.
 

Vena

Member
The Giant Bomb rumors has the specs at being pretty much the same components, just being more powerful.

There's a lot of rumors on this flying around but it could also potentially be a side-shift in uarch on the CPU, and a GCN generation leap on the GPU. Both can and will complicate things. :p

But until we know anything, we know very little. Go figure.

Yeah, its extra work, but hardly in any amount that would really make or break anything.

The framerate requirements are the ones that stick out to me (well aside from even having requirements, I think that's a dumb move), because that's never linear or easy to track down. If you have it running 30 stable on PS4, you MUST have it running at 30 stable on PS4Neo. But the actual run-environment won't be identical. I mean, the very fact that all games must ship with a "Neo" mode tells me that even Sony doesn't expect it to be a non-zero effort. I don't think we're going to be seeing a hardware revision where code runs from (A.) on (B.) no prob as we're used to with nigh-identical, just clock-changed hardware.

I can just imagine the clusterfuck that will be Unity performance.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
It's weird, for me I find the business side of the dedicated devices to be much more interesting than what's going on in mobile... seems that Japanese mobile devs have settled into a formula that usually works - the F2P with IAP gatcha model, daily quests and incentives to log in every day. The same few games have been dominating the list for years, and games tied to an existing IP also do pretty well. But seeing how different companies who are normally strong on dedicated devices and bigger-budget titles cope with the loss of marketshare is more interesting:

-Companies looking toward Asia
-Companies looking toward Europe (which seemed to get the shaft from Japan for a long while)
-Companies looking inward, laser-focusing on otaku who still reliably spend money
-Companies realizing that, after a generation of the western press chastizing their games, there are actually a bunch of people over here who appreciate what Japan brings to the table in terms of game design and unique storylines/environmental design
-Companies discovering the PC and releasing their backlog of games on there.
-SE making more smaller budget RPGs and playing more to their core strengths in hope of stimulating console sales for their big-budget releases.
-Konami nearly completely bailing out from the marketplace.
-SNK dropping Pachinko and returning to console games
Actually I think this is a good opportunity for me to elaborate a bit.

It's true that the service business model for mobile is quite static and games tend to use slight variations or obvious next steps.

By the same token, my feeling is that most of the things you listed above are obvious next steps as well.

Condensing it down, we have:
1.) Double down on the tastes of your existing market.
2.) Expand to new platforms and geographies.
3.) Make the products where you feel you have an existing competitive advantage.
4.) Exit any markets where you feel you are no longer competitive and focus on those where you think you are (Konami and SNK are opposite sides of the same coin here).

So, with the core business strategy feeling similarly familiar to me between the two, I tend to focus on the most interesting products or corporate initiatives instead.

To start, I'll list out a few examples of what I feel interesting dedicated devices games from Japan look like, and some that aren't.

Final Fantasy XV: This is a game that tries to take a long successful but fading RPG series and remake it in the image of the West (as an open world action RPG) while trying to retain some of the brand's identity. Seeing whether that runs aground with cultural conflicts (in one or more regions) and first-time-in-a-new-genre game design problems or actually succeeds strikes me as quite interesting.

Metal Gear Solid V: This case is pretty similar to Final Fantasy XV, except that the material is a bit more inherently workable globally. Hooking in lots of open world mechanics, progression systems, and online functionality that feels like both a natural extension of the IP and a notably on point release for current global trends was interesting to see unfold, and its success made strong statements about the potential to launch a truly AAA Japanese game and have it succeed (sans the part where the company imploded and exited the market, but that didn't feel 100% related to the product they delivered versus the situation and direction of the company).

Monster Hunter Stories: There aren't a lot of people making new successful series targeted at children, and this is an area Capcom has notably struggled in. Here we see them trying to leverage a new business for themselves by tackling a new genre and age group with a currently very successful IP. They also seem to be spending a solid amount of money on development and the surrounding promotional/transmedia efforts. The difference between selling 300K or 800K here means a lot to both Capcom and other companies who might try to do the same, but have similarly struggled to follow in Level 5's footsteps thus far.

Splatoon: This was a case of a Japanese company that's been seen as perennially behind the time when it comes to core gaming manage to launch a competitive third person shooter (both in the genre and product senses) with a strong service model that retained their corporate identity, added new innovations to the genre, and also launched the first successful E10+ shooter in existence. It also accomplished all this despite being made by less experienced/younger staff and being in a genre that's completed dominated by the West. It's strong overperformance speaks volumes about how well Nintendo has managed to adapt in the past few years, and their potential to do so in the future.

However, I feel this type of stuff is few and far between. Much more often we either see a scenario like Persona 5 (growing brand + lots of money + strong but expected iteration = more sales, shocking!), a scenario like Tales (relatively unambitious changes + middling budget + constant output = declining sales), or a scenario like Star Ocean (let's revive this thing that died off, give it a low budget, and have it pretty much be like before = it didn't sell very much).

With mobile, I feel that we actually see the types of products being released change very frequently, even if each of them is molded to the business model that dominates the medium. We've went from barely interactive clicker games to puzzle titles, to action RPGs, to synchronous multiplayer games, to even having lite-MMOs like Final Fantasy Grandmasters all within the course of about four years. Production values have seen significant changes, as has the degree of similarity and scope between mobile titles and dedicated devices games. Due to the comparatively low cost and growing nature of that market, we get to see unusual attempt after unusual attempt try to go out and succeed, sometimes where others have failed before, and then try to glean why things failed and why things worked.

To demo some of this evolution, back in 2011, the best performing Final Fantasy mobile game was Airship Brigade, which worked like every other tap-to-win "card battler" ever.

In 2016, it's Final Fantasy: Brave Exvius, which includes a CG opening, lots of ingame cutscenes, a battle system with tactical ability usage/healing/status effects/MP management (and yes, an auto button for trash mobs), explorable towns with shops and lots of NPCs to talk to and sidequests to pick up, and explorable maps with random encounters and items/chests to collect hidden throughout: https://youtu.be/R6BedDSvC_0?t=55

I feel the process of figuring out the market and getting all these kinds of ideas to work where products like Chaos Rings failed has been the most interesting and dynamic part of the Japanese industry over the past few years.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
There's a lot of rumors on this flying around but it could also potentially be a side-shift in uarch on the CPU, and a GCN generation leap on the GPU. Both can and will complicate things. :p

But until we know anything, we know very little. Go figure.
Yeah, much is still uncertain. Officially, the PS4 Neo doesnt even exist. Maybe we will learn more at E3.


The framerate requirements are the ones that stick out to me (well aside from even having requirements, I think that's a dumb move), because that's never linear or easy to track down. If you have it running 30 stable on PS4, you MUST have it running at 30 stable on PS4Neo. But the actual run-environment won't be identical. I mean, the very fact that all games must ship with a "Neo" mode tells me that even Sony doesn't expect it to be a non-zero effort. I don't think we're going to be seeing a hardware revision where code runs from (A.) on (B.) no prob as we're used to with nigh-identical, just clock-changed hardware.

I can just imagine the clusterfuck that will be Unity performance.
If there is a framerate requirement, i imagine that its only for VR games, but even there, i dont think its an absolute must (i cant really see how a 3rd party are going to check the whole game in a more automated way if the framerate is super stable or not).

Do we know (or any rumor saying it) that there are any mandatory PS4 Neo requirements by the way? I'm under the impression that the other way around is more important, making sure that the game also works fine on the standard PS4.
 

Vena

Member
Do we know (or any rumor saying it) that there are any mandatory PS4 Neo requirements by the way? I'm under the impression that the other way around is more important, making sure that the game also works fine on the standard PS4.

My initial "Neo mode" stuff comes from rumors back when Osiris made his blow-out thread. But its nothing more than that until we hear more on it. I can try to dig up the actual source of that rumor but I don't have it off-hand, but I know its been floating around for some time. Heck, its even floating around in some of the NX discussion threads.

Back then we also had the "games running on PS4 will have performance sacrifices" for games made more to favor Neo. But what any of that means is going to be unknown until we see more from Sony themselves.

Any plans for buying Media Create White Book this year?

Whatever happened with that? I was onboard for handling a large chunk of the costs but then the emails died off, or I lost track of it?
 

MacTag

Banned
No way there's a new HW in development for the Wii U. HWL and HW are getting DLC until November, so I don't see them releasing a new entry so soon after that. And a Wii U game in 2017 is pure commercial suicide (and no way Nintendo would greenlight it, especially with them waiting for March to release the NX... in order to have enough games at launch and in the following months to begin with).

If KT has been developing HW2 for a while and is planning to release it "soon", it'd be as a NX launch title.
I was guessing based on their annual report mentioning Wii U being one of the systems they're still actively developing for this year (along with both 3DS and NX), but that could very well be just for the additional HW dlc.
 

Ōkami

Member
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Everything gets a PS4 LE
 
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