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Metroid Prime: Federation Force Review Thread

Gaf has a ton of diehard Metroid fans, me included. As of right now, the Fed Force review thread has 4 pages, the Fed Force ending thread has 4 pages, and the thread for people who bought and are playing the game (the OT)... just made it to two. Two pages.

That tells me loud and clear that no one is going to buy this game.

This was my thought yesterday too. When the OT was still on page 1 halfway through the day, I thought there might have been some sort of inventory issue where Nintendo shipped so few games people were having trouble finding a copy.

Indeed.


 
We all know the series is over. It was never a big seller, and nobody would invest in such a toxic userbase now.

What kind of hyperbole is this?

"Retro making another fucking Donkey Kong" notwithstanding, (and even then, that a case of expectations with the developer, rather than a Metroid title), Other M and Federation Force make up a grand total of two red-headed stepchilds of the series that receive a ton of flak from the fans. Virtually every other Metroid game in the fanbase is either acclaimed at best or considered decent at worst (spinoffs like Pinball and Hunters).

Even then, its been stated by several people so many times before on this board--fans wouldn't be so on edge if there was any sign of a traditional 2D or 3D Metroid game on the horizon (and not just assumptions or predictions that they are being held away for the NX).
 

KingBroly

Banned
What kind of hyperbole is this?

"Retro making another fucking Donkey Kong" notwithstanding, (and even then, that a case of expectations with the developer, rather than a Metroid title), Other M and Federation Force make up a grand total of two red-headed stepchilds of the series that receive a ton of flak from the fans. Virtually every other Metroid game in the fanbase is either acclaimed at best or considered decent at worst (spinoffs like Pinball and Hunters).

Even then, its been stated by several people so many times before on this board--fans wouldn't be so on edge if there was any sign of a traditional 2D or 3D Metroid game on the horizon (and not just assumptions or predictions that they are being held away for the NX).

This is why several people, including myself, keep bringing up Zelda. Zelda gets spin-offs, but they're still getting main games and know those games are coming. This is a case of people feel like Nintendo's out of ideas and have simply given up.
 
This is why several people, including myself, keep bringing up Zelda. Zelda gets spin-offs, but they're still getting main games and know those games are coming. This is a case of people feel like Nintendo's out of ideas and have simply given up.


Yeah. It doesn't rile up the Zelda fanbase because that series is practically yearly, bi annual at worst including remasters. If metroid was in the same position, I'd have no problems with them experimenting with the series alongside the main titles.
 

nynt9

Member
I read it a lot of times. There were excellent points regarding the quality of writing but misogynistic the game is not.

Just like how racism is not limited to people who wear klan hoods and also includes subtler racism, misogyny isn't just limited to men with wifebeaters who get drunk and hit their wives.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
As a spinoff the game can be seen as fine since it's basically from a Federation perspective.

But I think fans of the series like me want some assurance that a mainline title is at least being thought about. I've always wanted a Metroid set after Fusion and yet they seemingly don't ever want to do that. Which is a shame because that's where the story arc takes an interesting turn.

Another issue you'll see is that since Zelda and Metroid were both released in the same year in 1986 they will always hold events for Zelda while leaving Metroid as an afterthought. And has been true for a while considering the contrast between the 20th,25th, and now 30th anniversaries for both of them.

Which is sad since I like both franchises equally and don't think one should get more attention over the other.
 

Branduil

Member
Just like how racism is not limited to people who wear klan hoods and also includes subtler racism, misogyny isn't just limited to men with wifebeaters who get drunk and hit their wives.

Adam actually
shoots Samus though. In the back.
 
Virtually every other Metroid game in the fanbase is either acclaimed at best or considered decent at worst (spinoffs like Pinball and Hunters).

Even then, its been stated by several people so many times before on this board--fans wouldn't be so on edge if there was any sign of a traditional 2D or 3D Metroid game on the horizon (and not just assumptions or predictions that they are being held away for the NX).

Look. Nintendo might have a rapidly increasing amount of poorly received software since WiiU came out, endless droughts, anti-consumer online systems, projects that actively spite fan feedback like Starfox Zero and Sticker Star 2. So when they don't even halt to take a dump all over one of their most beloved (thought to be dead) legacy franchises, Metroid, it's the fans that are wrong.
Speaking up instead of silently accepting Nintendo's constant allegoric middle finger makes you entitled and a toxic troll. /whatfanboysbelieve

Nintendo's stubborness has led to this kind of feedback and it's more than fair. If they stay stubborn, keep believing they still have that Nintendogs audience and the series dies with FF, so be it. As a fan, I rather have their franchises dead than to endure more insults like this.
 

TheMoon

Member
But I think fans of the series like me want some assurance that a mainline title is at least being thought about.

And that happened. Twice. But nobody ever wants to acknowledge it for some reason. This is what I don't understand. I get the "action speaks louder than words" perspective but you know how gamedev works. You know how Nintendo works. But how many more times do they need to say it?
 
And that happened. Twice. But nobody ever wants to acknowledge it for some reason. This is what I don't understand. I get the "action speaks louder than words" perspective but you know how gamedev works. You know how Nintendo works. But how many more times do they need to say it?

That first article was from before Federation Force was announced. So that's how they "took care of" 3D Metroid.

I guess we can expect the 2D Metroid on NX then?
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
This was my thought yesterday too. When the OT was still on page 1 halfway through the day, I thought there might have been some sort of inventory issue where Nintendo shipped so few games people were having trouble finding a copy.
Actually yes, people outside of NA have trouble finding a copy..
 

KingBroly

Banned
Prime is not 2D. Prime is the 3D/FPS sublabel.

Here's the problem though. Sakamoto's gone on record saying he doesn't want to return to the series. Tanabe's gone on record saying Sakamoto's still in charge of 2D Metroid. What's that mean? Federation Force is all we're getting.
 

Synless

Member
Here's the problem though. Sakamoto's gone on record saying he doesn't want to return to the series. Tanabe's gone on record saying Sakamoto's still in charge of 2D Metroid. What's that mean? Federation Force is all we're getting.
Sakamoto stated he didn't want to work on Metroid anymore? Did the backlash of Other M get to him?
 
This is why several people, including myself, keep bringing up Zelda. Zelda gets spin-offs, but they're still getting main games and know those games are coming. This is a case of people feel like Nintendo's out of ideas and have simply given up.

Zelda sells though
 

maxcriden

Member
Here's the problem though. Sakamoto's gone on record saying he doesn't want to return to the series. Tanabe's gone on record saying Sakamoto's still in charge of 2D Metroid. What's that mean? Federation Force is all we're getting.

Maybe so, until we get the next Metroid Prime. Though, we did get Blast, which has a whole game's worth of content and is surely better liked that Other M or Fed Force.
 

Vitacat

Member
Here's the problem though. Sakamoto's gone on record saying he doesn't want to return to the series. Tanabe's gone on record saying Sakamoto's still in charge of 2D Metroid. What's that mean? Federation Force is all we're getting.

And that's how Nintendo operates? At the whims of developers? Odd for a traditional Kyoto company.

F-Zero GX, which is IMO the best F-Zero, was outsourced to Sega IIRC. Could Nintendo not have another internal group work on a proper Metroid, or outsourced to a developer who is enthusiastic about the franchise?
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
And that happened. Twice. But nobody ever wants to acknowledge it for some reason. This is what I don't understand. I get the "action speaks louder than words" perspective but you know how gamedev works. You know how Nintendo works. But how many more times do they need to say it?

I don't think words will be enough. When your last full on Metroid game was in 2010 and in 2016 out of the blue you hand out Federation Force there is going to be diversity. Especially since it was already diverse with Other M.

Especially the contrast in artstyle and atmosphere.

FF can be fun but when I think of Metroid I think of isolation and exploration and progressive power increases you carry with you and not arbitrary mission objectives in a pickup and play mission based format.

I felt the same way with Dark Moon. Instead of everchanging mansion's based on progression they chose to do a mission based format with objectives and was a bunch of do this, come back, do this again. Across 5-6 locations?

And I can see the same framework of the game design from Dark Moon applied in Federation Force.

What I would give to see Metroid in a Survival Horror setting what with the whole thematic lose your abilities and get them all back motif it usually follows. Doubt it would ever happen but I'd be all for it.

FF does expand on what the Federation does on one front and in the game design illustrate as a grunt you just follow objectives, complete the mission and so forth.

But to me that isn't really a Metroid experience.
 
And that's how Nintendo operates? At the whims of developers? Odd for a traditional Kyoto company.

F-Zero GX, which is IMO the best F-Zero, was outsourced to Sega IIRC. Could Nintendo not have another internal group work on a proper Metroid, or outsourced to a developer who is enthusiastic about the franchise?

Well federation gorce is outsourced to next level games and they have a great track record
 

Doorman

Member
lmao, and they did come out with 3D metroid- this shovelware.
I'm fine with people being upset by the game's tone if they want to be, but from the general tone of the reviews I've read then this is an unfair criticism. Maybe it's not incredible, or great, but at the very least it sounds like enough real effort has been put into Federation Force that to call it "shovelware" is just factually wrong.

Here's the problem though. Sakamoto's gone on record saying he doesn't want to return to the series. Tanabe's gone on record saying Sakamoto's still in charge of 2D Metroid. What's that mean? Federation Force is all we're getting.
If I'm not mistaken, Sakamoto's mentioned before that lately he has more fun working on lighter fare, the Tomodachi games and so forth. But you're right that it seems unlikely to me that Nintendo would simply hand Metroid over to another one of their internal teams when the "real" Metroid team is still there but working on something else. The only other producer that has any standing with the franchise currently is Tanabe, but he's relegated to the Prime subseries, and it seems unlikely that they'll put him in charge of a "mainline" Metroid game any time soon. And in the meantime, we're looking right now at what his most recent vision for expanding the game's universe is.

FF does expand on what the Federation does on one front and in the game design illustrate as a grunt you just follow objectives, complete the mission and so forth.

But to me that isn't really a Metroid experience.
I'd argue that it was the intent of Federation Force going in to provide something other than a typical "Metroid experience." They've really never publicly positioned the game as such. But that expectation was placed upon it by the fanbase because it's been however long since the last "real" entry anyway and now that seems to be the metric by which most people are judging it. I can understand and sympathize with that, but it doesn't exactly make it fair.
 
Yeah, that's true. So, there we go. Why not outsource a proper traditional Metroid as well?

I guess it's too late for 3DS or WiiU now. But maybe NX?

Well I would guess Retro is doing something with the NX.. Maybe its DKC again (which I would love to see) maybe its metroid.
 
Zelda sells though

Yeah, Nintendo should cut anything that hasn't sold at least 5 million in the past from their portfolio. Diversity isn't feasible as a platform holder. What they really need is something like a console with nothing but their biggest hits being remade, as safe as possible. Launch year would need New Mario Bros., preferably wice, Wii Fit, Mario & Sonic and screw it, put Retro on the umpteenth 2d platformer. I guess you can throw pesky core fans a bone by putting some old IP into a shoddy minigame collection though, since keeping just a few million hardcore fans happy with real/good games would be a waste. There wouldn't be any reason such a strategy won't dominate Japan.
 

Socreges

Banned
That CGM review reads as if the guy is just making shit up to counter all the internet arguments he had.

If you're a fan of the Metroid series, there is plenty to see, including Samus, who shows up in various cutscenes.
It feels like a proper Metroid game and not just some cash-in of the IP.
Those concerned that it won't feel like a ‘proper Metroid’, fret not, as it very much does. If playing solo, you'll still have those feelings of wonder, loneliness, and exploration, though the levels are linear and you're selecting them from a menu.
Easily one of the best games released for the 3DS, and certainly one of the better Metroid titles.
I'm all for allowing people their own opinions, but he provides nothing to back up all of these claims and in fact seems to indirectly argue the opposite.
 

kunonabi

Member
That CGM review reads as if the guy is just making shit up to counter all the internet arguments he had.




I'm all for allowing people their own opinions, but he provides nothing to back up all of these claims and in fact seems to indirectly argue the opposite.

It's pretty much ghostbuster 2016 situation again with some reviews being more of a response to the internet whining more than anything else.
 

diaspora

Member
I'm fine with people being upset by the game's tone if they want to be, but from the general tone of the reviews I've read then this is an unfair criticism. Maybe it's not incredible, or great, but at the very least it sounds like enough real effort has been put into Federation Force that to call it "shovelware" is just factually wrong.

I guess NLG can get a participation badge.
 
Thank god. I want a restraining order to keep him away from Samus TBH.

I think that's a bit harsh, but it's certainly a better use of his talents making more great rhythm heaven games, or big sellers like tomodachi life than more metroid that few people end up liking or wanting, for whatever reasons.
 
So it's OK...Is it really that hard for you to admit, that you'd basically say the describe the word without saying it

It's actually not the same thing at all, and the fact that you think it is is the exact problem I have with that reasoning. In my specific example that you bolded, neither person thought the game was "okay," so declaring it as such is really silly. If one person's favorite color is red and another's is green, you wouldn't say their favorite color together is brown would you?

I haven't played the game; I have no vested interest in whether the game is good or not. In fact, I suspect I'd personally hate it. I just abhor the idea of someone mixing together a bunch of subjective opinions using varying and possibly incompatible scales, and pretending like you can get an objective singular verdict out of that.

So like every game ever then? Cool

In that you can't distill a game from a variety of opinions into an objective singular adjective, yes.
 
Has anyone here played it with other people offline? I really want to give this game a chance, but it felt like a lot of the reviewers played it in Single Player.
 

Simbabbad

Member
"Retro making another fucking Donkey Kong" notwithstanding, (and even then, that a case of expectations with the developer, rather than a Metroid title), Other M and Federation Force make up a grand total of two red-headed stepchilds of the series that receive a ton of flak from the fans. Virtually every other Metroid game in the fanbase is either acclaimed at best or considered decent at worst (spinoffs like Pinball and Hunters).
What does it change to anything I said? It's been six years that part of the fanbase hurls insults at Nintendo and developers such as Sakamoto, Tanabe or Next Level Games saying they shouldn't touch the series ever again, and that any attempt at doing anything with Metroid, even something as mundane as releasing Other M on the eShop or having a Metroid themed activity in Nintendo Land, is met with over the top harassment, peaking with the sabotaging of the Federation Force launch even before anybody could touch the game. If that's not being toxic, what is? Were Mario fans harassing Nintendo when they released a Mario spin-off, when Yoshi's Story released on the eShop, or when Nintendo Land was revealed to have a Mario activity?

As for the other games, in the latest Metroid Fusion NeoGAF thread I've read, people who said they really liked the game were trashed by many people who also trashed Federation Force without playing it, because you see, Fusion is way too linear and has too much dialogue and story and is therefore a disgrace to the Metroid name. The same purists generally go like this:

- NES Metroid is now unplayable.
- Metroid II is now unplayable, and Nintendo are bastards for not allowing AM2R, a game which straight rips Metroid II's level design and concept and Metroid Zero Mission's visuals.
- Super Metroid is God incarnate, but nobody should buy it on the eShop because Nintendo are bastards and released an unplayable version of the game.
- Metroid Fusion is too linear and has too much story and dialogue.
- Metroid Prime Echoes is too slow and purple and painful and derivative.
- Metroid Prime Corruption is too linear and has too much story and dialogue.
- Metroid Other M is Satan incarnate.

... which leaves only three games in the whole series that satisfy them, that are basically all variants of Super Metroid.

If you add to this that Metroid doesn't sell, that its maze/"figure out where to go next" design is nowadays really unpopular and even the Metroid Prime Trilogy sold poorly despite being full of amazing content on Nintendo's most popular console, that makes the series a risky bet for development money. Some people can victimize themselves as customers all they want, from a producer's point of view, their money can be better invested elsewhere given all those circumstances, nobody wants to invest in a niche audience when that audience repeatedly trashes you. In fact, at this point their best bet is to ignore that base entirely, ironically.
 
If you add to this that Metroid doesn't sell, that its maze/"figure out where to go next" design is nowadays really unpopular and even the Metroid Prime Trilogy sold poorly despite being full of amazing content on Nintendo's most popular console,

Except for you know, how Nintendo discontinued the Prime Trilogy incredibly early, only a few months after it was released.

How much did MPT sell again? I heard it was around 600,000, which I think is pretty impressive considering it was basically a rare collectors item.
 

Ridley327

Member
Except for you know, how Nintendo discontinued the Prime Trilogy incredibly early, only a few months after it was released.

How much did MPT sell again? I heard it was around 600,000, which I think is pretty impressive considering it was basically a rare collectors item.

I don't think it got even close to that number prior to the discontinuation. It was wasting away on shelves in pretty high stock and the fire sales started afterward.
 

Garlador

Member
In that you can't distill a game from a variety of opinions into an objective singular adjective, yes.
Sure you can.

"The reception has been average-to-positive."

It's sitting on a 71 on metacritic. That's neither "The next Prime!"-tier, but can we at least stop pretending its "Big Mutha Truckers"-tier?
 

goldenpp72

Member
I don't think it got even close to that number prior to the discontinuation. It was wasting away on shelves in pretty high stock and the fire sales started afterward.

Very true, I bought mine for 20 bucks new from BB and those lasted a long time, it became a collectible way after the fact. It wasn't like how Nintendo did Mario that's for sure.
 
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