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[GHG]

It doesn't make it worse either, small startups don't have a chance in hell now, they don't have chance if this goes through or not. They can't afford to pay what the big boys can for 3rd party content. Just wait for amazon to setup luna through twitch so you just click a play this game now button on a stream and it launches you into luna all covered by your amazon prime sub.

Well that's the crux of the issue we face. The big corporations that dominate most industries have been allowed to get so outsized that it's now very difficult for them to be reigned in and to make matters worse it's impossible to compete with them.

If you're a business and it looks like you've got something with a fighting chance of being able to upset them they will just buy you out by offering far more money then you are worth and could ever be worth for a very long time. That's why people sell, not because they don't care about the work they were doing and the business they were building, we are talking about offers you can't refuse. And then once that acquisition is complete, the business gets mothballed or sunsetted. Job done, potential competitor extinguished, business as usual.

Even in the relatively short period of time cloud gaming has been around we've seen several examples of that very thing happening.

Sometimes there are industries who needs big companies to promote them, VR without Facebook would be regarded as an ultra niche laggy growth because it would be too expensive to have an entry point, Quest and Quest 2 represented the bulk of sales share because they were by far the cheapest option that ran on PC and standalone, and fast foward, here we are, a struggling to grow market, too expensive to keep footing the bill, and too expensive to put the costs into customers.

Cloud gaming has been here for more than 10 years, with Onlive, Gaikai and PS Now for PS4, none of them did catch traction because of several issues not only to the internet, but how you're supposed to get into it. PS Now was not well marketed, didn't have a mass availability and the PS3 rental titles were expensive like 3-5 dollars for a few hours. Stadia which had a great quality was marred down by poor marketing and Google known's poor effort and almost zero spending policy when they had deep pockets for that. Microsoft managed to snag because it is a technically freebie for Game Pass Ultimate with a library that got bigger with the time, all it took was someone with the pockets to do... an effort.

There is no industry that need a big company to promote them. The flow of money in economies is constant. If there are enough smaller companies making noise then the overall voice is just as loud as if there is just one large player with an outsized marketing budget. But like I said above, it's all a bit too late because those companies with the outsized budgets can do whats necessary do to defend their position, even if that means resorting to underhand tactics.

 

[harry mason 1989]

You know I think Ms still can win this fight imo
That ms lawyer is very good actually

 

[Bernoulli]

he is doing a transcript but i would wait later to get summery

 

[Bernoulli]

You know I think Ms still can win this fight imo
That ms lawyer is very good actually

yeah william for the CMA is doing bad for now

 

[X-Wing]

where are you guys watching this?

Found it...

Are you serious that this is being streamed on of the platforms that show evidence of one of the Microsoft many monopolies?

 

[GHG]

The CMA literally sent an intern. I'm not even joking in saying I could have done a better job than what I'm seeing here.

 

[Bernoulli]

The CMA literally sent an intern. I'm not even joking in saying I could have done a better job than what I'm seeing here.

why would they send a guy that has been on the case just 3 days?
anyone has his name?

 

[GHG]

why would they send a guy that has been on the case just 3 days?
anyone has his name?

Possibly because what happens today doesn't really have much impact overall, it's a formality to set the schedule and establish what will and won't be allowed in the appeal.

But considering the fact that this is being broadcast publically, this is not a good look. Poor decision.

 

[hlm666]

Well that's the crux of the issue we face. The big corporations that dominate most industries have been allowed to get so outsized that it's now very difficult for them to be reigned in and to make matters worse it's impossible to compete with them.

If you're a business and it looks like you've got something with a fighting chance of being able to upset them they will just buy you out by offering far more money then you are worth and could ever be worth for a very long time. That's why people sell, not because they don't care about the work they were doing and the business they were building, we are talking about offers you can't refuse. And then once that acquisition is complete, the business gets mothballed or sunsetted. Job done, potential competitor extinguished, business as usual.

Even in the relatively short period of time cloud gaming has been around we've seen several examples of that very thing happening.

I understand where your coming from but the cma isn't addressing this issue here at all block or not. This needed to happen on something the general public would have had more empathy for, like a pharmaceutical merger or something that effects the general population where the public could be much more invested. This is about bloody video games, it's not important enough in general. I didn't really care about this shit until the EU verdict and the streaming license remedies, that's actually something that could benefit me. Yes that's narcissistic but it is what it is. If the cma approved it and followed the EU lead but made the streaming license remedy permanent and push it onto all publishers it really would have been good for consumers and give smaller startups a chance, still not enough the big guys will still rule supreme but they get a chance and consumers get better rights on their game purchases.

However this turns out I hope the EU remedy is something that we see happen in the EU and other countries in the near future anyway.

 

[Bernoulli]

Possibly because what happens today doesn't really have much impact overall, it's a formality to set the schedule and establish what will and won't be allowed in the appeal.

But considering the fact that this is being broadcast publically, this is not a good look. Poor decision.

no it's really important

Beard said if they don't get the decision before the 18th july the deal might not happen
he is refeering to activision pulling out

 

[GHG]

no it's really important

Beard said if they don't get the decision before the 18th july the deal might not happen
he is refeering to activision pulling out

Yes, but the scheduling will be set one way or another regardless. It will be set in a way that suits the timetable of all parties involved. The CMA will have to come up with a good reason why the timetable proposed by Microsoft is not suitable for them, and if they don't have one then it is what it is.

Microsoft still have the FTC to deal with later down the line regardless of what happens here.

 

[Bernoulli]

They are using all the STATEMENTS from nvidia , boosteroid and all those 10 years deals as evidence

 

[DeepEnigma]

Korea is a weird flex when both UK and EC are concerned about cloud gaming. Last time I checked, Korea FTC wasn't highlighted as a regulator body needing to approve for the deal to move forward. CMA and EC are.

Just like CADE and the I believe it was Chile where they don't even sell Xbox products officially.

 

[Edmund]

MS Lawyer = Man City
CMA Lawyer = Soton

 

[DeepEnigma]

At least all the people who claimed they wanted/needed the acquisition to happen in order to get rid of Bobby can rest easy now.

 

[reksveks]

Anything interesting since the break?

 

[Iced Arcade]

So beard guy has no beard correct? Weird

 

[DeepEnigma]

stream on microsoft teams
we are LIVE

What's this? Cloud based streaming and infrastructure?

 

[GHG]

I understand where your coming from but the cma isn't addressing this issue here at all block or not. This needed to happen on something the general public would have had more empathy for, like a pharmaceutical merger or something that effects the general population where the public could be much more invested. This is about bloody video games, it's not important enough in general. I didn't really care about this shit until the EU verdict and the streaming license remedies, that's actually something that could benefit me. Yes that's narcissistic but it is what it is. If the cma approved it and followed the EU lead but made the streaming license remedy permanent and push it onto all publishers it really would have been good for consumers and give smaller startups a chance, still not enough the big guys will still rule supreme but they get a chance and consumers get better rights on their game purchases.

However this turns out I hope the EU remedy is something that we see happen in the EU and other countries in the near future anyway.

It's not "just videogames" though. We are talking about a multi-billion dollar industry. Isolating it and pretending it's impact overall is meaningless is myopic.

The reason is say that is because when we are dealing with a mega corporation like Microsoft they already have a monopoly and/or are dominant in a number of industries. We saw first hand how dangerous that can be during this very case when they started making threats to the UK government. No one company should be so powerful that it can have influence or even the gall to make threats on that level.

Beyond that it's all a self-reinforcing model. Use cash earned in business areas where they are dominant to bolster areas where they aren't and squeeze out the competition and then use the cash gained in that business area to dominate in another, rinse repeat. So it's videogames today that they are doing this in and in the future if they make as much money as they hope to in this industry then it will be another business area that they will bolster using the money earned in the gaming sector.

This is why and how they continue to find ways to grow, even after becoming a multi-trillion dollar business. It's a runaway train that has far reaching economic and political implications (especially now that AI is firmly in the mix) and what you're essentially proposing is that all the emergency brakes get removed just so that you can play a few videogames? It's nuts.

 

[DeepEnigma]

So Microsoft has no intention to go ahead with this past July?

I doubt Activision does either. They would have to agree on a new contract which could be one that takes years if this gets clogged in the legal system, and that also blocks Activision from having new third party marketing deals for upcoming games in 2024 and beyond. Something these 3rd party publishers rely on for funding.

 

[DJ12]

With all due respect, anyone who believes this deal should be blocked because of Cloud Gaming is a moron.

Very florian argument you have there.....

 

[Bernoulli]

judge says 24th july

 

[DarkBatman]

judge says 24th july

Which would be too late for MS, right?

 

[reksveks]

judge says 24th july

Hmm, wonder who think that that's a win to who? Anything about the new evidence?

 

[Sony]

CMA got buttslapped today and the judge's comments with regard to their reasoning is on-point. Why would you need external counsil to defend your own decisions. If even the judge questions your reasoning...

 

[Bernoulli]

Which would be too late for MS, right?

yes judge said between 24 and 30 july

microsoft wanted 17th

 

[Bernoulli]

CMA got buttslapped today and the judge's comments with regard to their reasoning is on-point. Why would you need external counsil to defend your own decisions. If even the judge questions your reasoning...

what?
the judge just sided with the CMA and gave them more time than what microsoft wanted

 

[adamsapple]

what?
the judge just sided with the CMA and gave them more time than what microsoft wanted

CMA wanted Autumn. The judge gave them an extra week than what MS wanted but it's far from what CMA wanted.

 

[Bernoulli]

CMA wanted Autumn. The judge gave them an extra week than what MS wanted but it's far from what CMA wanted.

beard said they want before the 17th because that's when activision can pull out

 

[jm89]

So deals gonna have to be renegotiated oof.

 

[b6a6es]

Hold your horses everyone

 

[Sony]

what?
the judge just sided with the CMA and gave them more time than what microsoft wanted

CMA wanted October, Microsoft wanted June. It got provisionally set in July. You tell me who won.

All this is irrelevant to the actual case though, I think MS will lose the appeal/ the deal will not go through.

 

[Dane]

CMA wanted Autumn. The judge gave them an extra week than what MS wanted but it's far from what CMA wanted.

This is basically akin to trading a product, it ended being in the range of what MS wanted.

 

[GHG]

Hold your horses everyone

Everyone that doesn't hang on a certain nutcases every word already knew that. There's still a long road ahead.

 

[harry mason 1989]

I have to wonder why the cma and ftc are against this deal
And the rest of the world are OK with it
I mean even China are ok with this deal
Usually ( correct me I'm wrong) the uk and usa always side with Ms
What a strange case
Anyway I'm happy this dumb drama will end in July

 

[Bernoulli]

Hold your horses everyone

don't worry CMA and CAT will crumble under pressure and the deal will be approved in june

 

[Dick Jones]

Everyone that doesn't hang on a certain nutcases every word already knew that. There's still a long road ahead.

Hey now, you didn't have to single me out

 

[Darsxx82]

CMA got buttslapped today and the judge's comments with regard to their reasoning is on-point. Why would you need external counsil to defend your own decisions. If even the judge questions your reasoning...

Possibly the most embarrassing moment for the CMA and that highlights its work... It is like admitting that its decision to block lacks any support in the opinions of experts or economists. Otherwise, why do you need time to seek expert opinions now that support the arguments that supposedly led you to blocking?The logical thing would be to offer the arguments of the economist that you already had, not the new one.

Obviously the Judge had to emphasize it.

 

[jm89]

CMA wanted October, Microsoft wanted June. It got provisionally set in July. You tell me who won.

Nobody really.

CMA didn't get their date.

MS will have to renogotiate, which is seemingly looking like a nervy ABK with how early they wanted this.

 

[Bernoulli]

Beard is mad at the judge's decision

 

[GHG]

Beard is mad at the judge's decision

Because it means more work for their counsel. That date means they need to go and start working something out with Activision, immediately.

 

[Elios83]

I'm at work and can't follow. So they will have to re-negotiate?
The end of July date is for what? CAT having a verdict and then eventually send the ball back to CMA?

 

[Dane]

Hold your horses everyone

Someone tells him 2-3% is for CAT approving a deal over the CMA, not for putting back the case into CMA but with the arguments being quashed so they would need new ones to block it.

 

[Bernoulli]

 

[b6a6es]

don't worry CMA and CAT will crumble under pressure and the deal will be approved in june

For the love of god put (/s) at the end of your sentence next time

 

[Sony]

By the way, the buttslapping of CMA by the judge is actually very good for CMA because now they can better prepare them themselves for those shortcomings. It's better to fail now than later in the process.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I can't see ATK renewing if this goes beyond July 17th. Unless MS agrees to 90bn+ and 6bn+ break up fee.

 

[Dick Jones]

Beard is mad at the judge's decision

He is delighted. Read the room in this thread.

 

[Sony]

This meeting also almost certainly pointed out the collusion between FTC and CMA. Hell, CMA pretty much admitted it.

 

[reksveks]

I'm at work and can't follow. So they will have to re-negotiate?
The end of July date is for what? CAT having a verdict and then eventually send the ball back to CMA?

Basically yeah, to hear the case and then make a decision shortly afterwards.