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Microsoft Game Stack VRS update (Series X|S) - Doom Eternal, Gears 5 and UE5 - 33% boost to Nanite Performance - cut deferred lighting time in half

SenjutsuSage

Halo TV Series Promoter - Live from: Reach

Lots of interesting info in this one. They detail the type of VRS Tier 2 used in Doom Eternal, and they apparently now have an even more superior VRS solution than what shipped in Doom Eternal called ReinhardLuma2x. A solution id software agrees is even better. And they suggest id plans to use it in their future titles. They also stress that VRS improves visual quality rather than reduces it because thanks to Tier 2 VRS you're going to be getting, on average, higher resolutions. Tons of interesting slides of information in here. Just posting what I can for now.




Also how to use Variable Rate Compute Shaders on Xbox Series X|S to cut deferred lighting time in half.









The new improved version of VRS compared to what was used in Doom Eternal. sqrt (Luma) was used in Doom Eternal. ReinhardLuma2x is the improved version of Tier 2 VRS.

 
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One benefit of Microsoft purchasing all these various studios is that they will now be able to share cutting-edge rendering and efficiency methods with one another. Id Tech alone is an industry leader in this and their technology can help improve future Call of Duty, Gears, and Halo projects. Exciting times.
 
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Sega Orphan

Banned
It's going to take awhile before we see the fruits of DX12 Ultimate extensions such as VRS, Mesh Shaders, SFS etc.
Microsoft is in the enviable position of having DX12U the default API for Xbox and increasingly so for PC. These functions are more likely to be adopted if there is a large call to do so.
 

SenjutsuSage

Halo TV Series Promoter - Live from: Reach
Cool but i’ll wait for real world results.

What you're looking at ARE real world results. Tested first in actual shipping games, and are now being experimented with and applied to new engines/games, and they're showing their actual results. They work. In the end nobody is saying it's going to be a "WOW HUUUGE GRAPHICAL BOOST!" but it does mean that Series X|S will be able to get more from their available hardware resources without having to work quite as hard.

It will generally mean more performance available to achieve better resolutions for improved picture quality as well as better framerates.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Shit like this is fascinating from the standpoint, that they have time to calculate all of this shit and in the end it's saving render time. Thanks for posting.

Also if anything MS should implement this at DirectX level. So you just turn on some flag and you are done.
 

MikeM

Member
What you're looking at ARE real world results. Tested first in actual shipping games, and are now being experimented with and applied to new engines/games, and they're showing their actual results. They work. In the end nobody is saying it's going to be a "WOW HUUUGE GRAPHICAL BOOST!" but it does mean that Series X|S will be able to get more from their available hardware resources without having to work quite as hard.

It will generally mean more performance available to achieve better resolutions for improved picture quality as well as better framerates.
So I can buy a game today with these superior features and see the results right now? I may have missed it in the article.
 

GHG

Member
But it was all marketing terms........vindicated again.

The stuff you see has already been implemented in the games discussed.

At this point I'm questioning whether anyone is actually watching the video in order to understand the context behind the images in the OP.

But please continue, I'm interested to see where you take this and what lofty claims you'll make this time round.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
The stuff you see has already been implemented in the games discussed.

At this point I'm questioning whether anyone is actually watching the video in order to understand the context behind the images in the OP.

But please continue, I'm interested to see where you take this and what lofty claims you'll make this time round.

They are showing how they are taking it forward from what was already implemented in both Gears 5 and Doom Eternal, try watching the video.
 

elliot5

Member
I kept telling people that was Tier 1 and not Tier 2.
It was not tier 1.

Ot just finished watching these and it’s really cool stuff. The lighting vrcs was most impressive with it being truly undetectable. And the deblocking May be useful to clean up artifacts seen in Halo or Doom in some scenarios.

The part on hdr tone mapping vrs is also cool. This headroom will allow for more graphical effects and higher framerate modes. The lighting vrs even seemed like it can help cut down on the costs for raytracing by reducing the amount of rays necessary to calculate lighting per pixel block
 
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SenjutsuSage

Halo TV Series Promoter - Live from: Reach
So I can buy a game today with these superior features and see the results right now? I may have missed it in the article.

There are games today that use the lesser implementations of these that have now been improved. Those games are as follows. Gears 5 Series X enhanced, Gears Hivebusters DLC. Doom Eternal on Series X. They're saying they've made big strides on the techniques used in those games, which were already pretty effective and impressive in each of those titles. They've both achieving superior performance and visual quality at the same time.

Another interesting thing found is this. They've found additional windows of opportunity to improve GPU performance on Series X.

 

ChiefDada

Member
The stuff you see has already been implemented in the games discussed.

At this point I'm questioning whether anyone is actually watching the video in order to understand the context behind the images in the OP.

But please continue, I'm interested to see where you take this and what lofty claims you'll make this time round.

I'm watching and I think you're referring to Nanite section for Alpha Point? Some of OP slides are reflecting on VRS that has already been implemented, so no changes there. But based on my understanding the advancement with Tier 2 for future games still stands.
 

Darsxx82

Member
The stuff you see has already been implemented in the games discussed.

At this point I'm questioning whether anyone is actually watching the video in order to understand the context behind the images in the OP.

But please continue, I'm interested to see where you take this and what lofty claims you'll make this time round.

Rather it is to question that you have seen it....
In the video they explain its implementation in Gears 5 and then improvements since then and the ones they are getting in UE5/Nanite (via Alpha Point demo).
Same for ID. They show improvements and evolutions since Doom Eternal and that they prevent to implement in future ID releases.
 

ZehDon

Member
One benefit of Microsoft purchasing all these various studios is that they will now be able to share cutting-edge rendering and efficiency methods with one another. Id Tech alone is an industry leader in this and their technology can help improve future Call of Duty, Gears, and Halo projects. Exciting times.
Id Tech's efficiency is second to none. The sheer number of high quality frames with intense visual effects that they can push per second - even on consoles - is mind boggling. I cannot wait to see what their expertise brings to bear.
 

SenjutsuSage

Halo TV Series Promoter - Live from: Reach
Isn't this already implemented in DX12 Ultimate?

VRS can just be "turned on" but VRS gives significantly better results when it's plumbed throughout the entire game engine. It can do more than just the more basic use case for it if implemented throughout the game engine. Coalition already said this last year.


What we are seeing right here is an example of some of the very things Coalition was mentioning could be possible with a deeper integration of VRS into a game engine. That Variable Rate Compute Shader stuff is mighty impressive, for example.

Future work

While we were able to implement VRS for all the passes that gave us the biggest bang for the buck, it was not plumbed into the entire engine due to time constraints. A deeper integration would allow VRS to provide even larger GPU savings.
 

SenjutsuSage

Halo TV Series Promoter - Live from: Reach
Also it was nice seeing that with the vrcs lighting series s still got massive savings whereas with vrs for gbuffer stuff it’s less effective vs series x because of the lower resolution. Promising performance optimizations for S

Turns out the wins are even bigger for Series S than what's shown. They kept all the content that was being rendered on Series X exactly the same. Typically a real game, as they said, will use lower quality stuff for Series S.


They're rendering the exact same context, exact same mesh lods. You would reduce your mesh lods for the lower resolution.
 
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Darsxx82

Member
It will be interesting to see the difference this brings in Doom, it looked kinda iffy before.

The VRS we've seen so far does make it look worse in games like Doom Eternal. If this version improves it then that's great.
VRS in Doom Eternal didn't get any worse, that's not entirely true. There is hit but more wins.

Thanks to VRS, you achieved in moments up to 30% more average resolution than what you got on PS5 and you achieved a definitely more noticeable crisp image while playing. Another thing is that by zooming in on objects out of the player's attention you see that they have a certain loss of detail.... But that's the idea around VRS.

How will it evolve and how much will VRS help the XSeries? We will see it, but, in this video, the authors present it as an almost obligatory option for use in XSeries for future games both in UE5 and in the ID engine.

P.S. Apparently Cyberpunk 1.5 uses VRS and the result is practically invisible even at 400% zoom according to Alex on twitter.
 
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GHG

Member
They are showing how they are taking it forward from what was already implemented in both Gears 5 and Doom Eternal, try watching the video.

Yeh I've already seen it, hence my comment.

Rather it is to question that you have seen it....
In the video they explain its implementation in Gears 5 and then improvements since then and the ones they are getting in UE5/Nanite (via Alpha Point demo).
Same for ID. They show improvements and evolutions since Doom Eternal and that they prevent to implement in future ID releases.

Are you even listening to the commentary? Anything where they talk about "results" (and display accompanying benchmarks) is retrospective, it's already implemented and they are talking about that process with a view to best practice.

They do talk about learnings and future opportunities with the tech but nothing there is quantified. Hence the stance there should very much be wait and see. If there's anyone that can get the most out of it it's id.
 
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Darsxx82

Member
Yeh I've already seen it, hence my comment.



Are you even listening to the commentary? Anything where they talk about "results" (and display accompanying benchmarks) is retrospective, it's already implemented and they are talking about that process with a view to best practice.

They do talk about learnings and future opportunities with the tech but nothing there is quantified. Hence the stance there should very much be wait and see. If there's anyone that can get the most out of it it's id.
No, it is not a wait and see or promises. They make it clear that the implementation of VRS is evolving and improving and that these are expected to be seen both in UE5 and in future games with the ID engine.
Obviously there are only concrete and quantifiable results in games already released with VRS... but there the idea that they leave is that there will be evolution both in the implementation on different engines (compatibility with UE5/Nanite), as well as in IQ results and performance.

Another thing is that you want to be skeptical and show doubts (it is OK and respectable) about what they venture about the usefulness of VRS, but that is a different topic.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
Looks like they are finding even more gains as they work through this, it was fascinating to listen to even for someone not in the business. That they can actually get even more savings by running Tier 1 at the same time is excellent on some effects.
The real big story was the affect on UE5 which is going to be huge over this generation, having The Coalition impacting the engine like was pointed out previously is a big win for Xbox.
 

MikeM

Member
There are games today that use the lesser implementations of these that have now been improved. Those games are as follows. Gears 5 Series X enhanced, Gears Hivebusters DLC. Doom Eternal on Series X. They're saying they've made big strides on the techniques used in those games, which were already pretty effective and impressive in each of those titles. They've both achieving superior performance and visual quality at the same time.

Another interesting thing found is this. They've found additional windows of opportunity to improve GPU performance on Series X.

The lesser- yes I am aware. The improved version, no. Right?
 

elliot5

Member
The lesser- yes I am aware. The improved version, no. Right?
My understanding was vrs does not get “improved” it’s the underlying formulas and uses of the shaders within the graphics pipeline that are being improved to increase the efficiency of vrs rendering. It’s not like VRS got updated to v 2.1.1 in the xdk and now all games get an improvement.
 
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