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Microsoft's GDC 2023 booth possibly suggests an announcement of a new console soon.

DaGwaphics

Member
Except they would. To sell less.



That would amazingly lose MS money, while offering less than the other pre-built library handhelds already with game pass access AND Steam access, while selling less than the console S.

If you think Xbox couldn't compete with the tiny install bases of the existing handhelds with the Xbox brand I don't know what to tell you. Plus, a portable S would continue to sell alongside a console model (console would likely shrink as you'd use the dieshrink chips there as well). Access to the console library would be a feature not a flaw, the XSS profile is ready to go and optimized for this chip set. The Steamdeck and the other handhelds get the turn everything down to low and hope and pray it plays technique.
 
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If you think Xbox couldn't compete with the tiny install bases of the existing handhelds with the Xbox brand I don't know what to tell you.

Which isn't what I said, how about responding to what you quoted?

There is no financial incentive for MS. This handheld thing is not going to happen and the want for it is subtly just a jab at the Series S as usual in the end. Microsoft has no interest, they will be focusing on their two console sku's, and partnering with various companies and devices for Xcloud and gamepass. They even canned the streaming box, they see no need for a handheld.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
Which isn't what I said, how about responding to what you quoted?

There is no financial incentive for MS.

The financial incentive would be that it could increase the viability of their ecosystem. Especially in multi-console households. Let me get that game on Xbox rather than PS, I can use it on my X and XSSdeck. Plus there are a lot of markets where handhelds are starting to be the range and living room consoles are dying. It would be a low volume device (or at least start that way) sold at a profit with no development overhead.
 
The financial incentive would be that it could increase the viability of their ecosystem.

By spreading their limited resources with new hardware based on hardware they already have low margins on, that would sell more.

The better economic bet would be to spread game pass and Xcloud with more partners hardware and ecosystem, the thing they are doing now, because there's less expense and more profit. You can even get game pass on the new Razer handheld thing.
 

ZoukGalaxy

Member
The Xbox Series XS and Xbox Series XX.
You mean the Xbox XXX and Xbox XXXL

ahsbTO2.jpg
 

DaGwaphics

Member
By spreading their limited resources with new hardware based on hardware they already have low margins on, that would sell more.

The better economic bet would be to spread game pass and Xcloud with more partners hardware and ecosystem, the thing they are doing now, because there's less expense and more profit. You can even get game pass on the new Razer handheld thing.

MS would have only one portable option to stand alongside their existing consoles running the same store and library, nothing really confusing there. I'm not sure where the limited resources come in, I think MS has the capability to R&D and produce any hardware product they can dream up, simply don't sell it at a loss.

If all the systems are running Series software, the variants they have are unimportant, the total number of series users is more important. If they have a profile that maturing technology made ripe for a portable option, and there is evidence that a portable market exists, it would be bad business not to explore that option. Also, both myself and @ 01011001 01011001 are talking more about a down the line product, I don't think something like this is dropping tomorrow (the XSS is a bit power hungry for a handheld at this point).
 
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Excellent, my Series X is getting a little long in the tooth.

Next-gen features are barely being utilised i.e. VRS, SFS, Mesh Shaders, DirectML.

If they have to throw more compute at the problem until developers get the finger out then I can respect that.
Shouldn't there be a few games that aren't cross-gen before we make this claim?

Is there a Series S|X console exclusive game other than Flight Simulator yet?
 
mid gen refreh to go along with PS5 Pro/Slim.
There's a big difference between those two things.

I still don't think we're getting Pro consoles this cycle. Last gen was the exception because of the sudden and rapid adaption of 4K and HDR.

Slim models are a definite. Especially for PS5.
 
MS would have only one portable option to stand alongside their existing consoles running the same store and library,

Which has nothing to do, or does not address, the lack of roi and the cost issues in creating and maintain, that handheld. Which would not help Microsofts bottom line at all.

I think MS has the capability to R&D and produce any hardware product they can dream up, simply don't sell it at a loss.

Which it would, for a portable Series S with decent battery tech and being well-designed.

Also you're bringing back the infinite warchest theory here.

If all the systems are running Series software, the variants they have are unimportant, the total number of series users is more important. If they have a profile that maturing technology made ripe for a portable option, and there is evidence that a portable market exists, it would be bad business not to explore that option.

You aren't arguing for exploring the option, because if you were, you would be exploring the risks and the cons, instead your basically saying "MS=ruch, throw out handheld because. Why not.

That mindset is not going to get a project approved at the next meeting. There has to actually be a benefit, as well as a reduction or removal of likely potential problems, and that has yet to be articulated.
 
So turns out it's a projector made in partnership with a third-party. At least that is what was shown off at GDC.

So no slim or pro here. Very odd.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Which has nothing to do, or does not address, the lack of roi and the cost issues in creating and maintain, that handheld. Which would not help Microsofts bottom line at all.



Which it would, for a portable Series S with decent battery tech and being well-designed.

Also you're bringing back the infinite warchest theory here.



You aren't arguing for exploring the option, because if you were, you would be exploring the risks and the cons, instead your basically saying "MS=ruch, throw out handheld because. Why not.

That mindset is not going to get a project approved at the next meeting. There has to actually be a benefit, as well as a reduction or removal of likely potential problems, and that has yet to be articulated.

I'll waste some more time arguing about imaginary projects with you here. The XSS is already in the lineup, therefore maintaining software support for this device is an existing cost. This theoretical portable device is running the same OS and system software with the exception of some battery handling and screen controls. There is no software costs because the entire library already exists. And yes, any product can be sold break-even or at profit, you simply set the price where it needs to be in comparison to the costs. It would either sell or it wouldn't. This would literally be a much smaller risk than introducing the XSS in the first place. Companies like Steam and MS R&D many products that never see the light of day, they are not paralyzed by the fear of not recouping every dollar spent there. A failed portable console doesn't even change the flow for them, those that bought it would simply continue using it as a XSS and MS would just stop selling it if they couldn't move enough to justify the manufacturing. It doesn't get more low risk than this.

You are trying to compare this with launching a standalone portable console with its own distinct library and system software. That comparison is simply incorrect. This isn't a GameGear but a Nomad, that makes a substantial difference. Like I said before me and 01011001 01011001 were pondering the possibility based on the assumption that AMD will eventually be able to manufacture this chip in a way that makes sense in a portable device, if AMD can never do that, obviously the option would never exist.

Also, I'd never say it was odd that they didn't show a slim/refresh at GDC, they typically do that at E3 type events.
 
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This would literally be a much smaller risk than introducing the XSS in the first place.

Except it's proven itself, so this doesn't make sense. it makes the late handheld release pointless, and for the same reason you stayed with having all the services and software there, MS will make more money, without a handheld, just partnering with other companies and using their handhelds.

You keep skipping the simple stuff and making walls of complication without directly addressing any cons to having a handheld.

You are trying to compare this with launching a standalone portable console with its own distinct library and system software.

No I am not, you're purposefully skipping what I'm saying, so you can pretend that's what I'm comparing to make larger walls of texts, while not addressing a single issue I wrote before.

Also, I'd never say it was odd that they didn't show a slim/refresh at GDC, they typically do that at E3 type events.

Actually no they don't, they usually announced consoles outside of E3. Information for stuff has happened at or near GDC many times, the original Xbox was announced at GDC.

With that being said, you also skipped the post before the one you responded to, the item of suspicion ended up being the 4k projector which now has a thread.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
@ Eddie-Griffin Eddie-Griffin you have to make a coherent point from a business perspective first before anyone can debate that.

MS is just one game store (an unpopular one at that) on third-party devices, they are the only available store on their own device. That in itself would be a big enough incentive to have their own local play device. Especially in a no-risk scenario where they could utilize a chip they are already using. Obviously the mobile gaming space runs behind PC/Console so the device being late to that market would be normal.

Just saying that someone else is already doing it so why bother isn't as edgy or relevant as you think it is. You probably need to work on your own arguments against such a device, they aren't sharp at all.
 
@ Eddie-Griffin Eddie-Griffin you have to make a coherent point from a business perspective first before anyone can debate that.

You are the one arguing it's a viable move while skipping over the business aspect You have not directly addressed ONE concern yet regarding that. You're just saying they should launch it because why not. That's not how business works.

MS is just one game store (an unpopular one at that) on third-party devices, they are the only available store on their own device. That in itself would be a big enough incentive to have their own local play device.

You ever wonder why they abandoned GFWL and Universal Windows Apps to go back to Steam releases? A handheld is not going to do much for their store, it'll probably do less than their S mode laptops.

The actual butter is coming from Xcloud and game pass, which you can get on many handhelds today right now, and more soon. Wasting money on R&D for a handheld is more wasteful than their R&D for another Surface Phone to try and hit break even.

You keep saying no risk by skipping over the actual risks.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
You are the one arguing it's a viable move while skipping over the business aspect You have not directly addressed ONE concern yet regarding that. You're just saying they should launch it because why not. That's not how business works.



You ever wonder why they abandoned GFWL and Universal Windows Apps to go back to Steam releases? A handheld is not going to do much for their store, it'll probably do less than their S mode laptops.

The actual butter is coming from Xcloud and game pass, which you can get on many handhelds today right now, and more soon. Wasting money on R&D for a handheld is more wasteful than their R&D for another Surface Phone to try and hit break even.

You keep saying no risk by skipping over the actual risks.
You haven't put forward a single intelligent"concern" yet, therefore there is nothing to address. LOL

You could apply this same ridiculous argument you are making to Steam and the Steamdeck. Steam isn't even a hardware company and yet they did the R&D work to make a handheld. They obviously could have just sold their games via Steam on the other guys portable system as well. They've only sold 1m or so of them, 2m if we are being really generous. Do you think that is significantly changing the amount of software that they are selling? I doubt it.

But, they likely aren't loosing money on the product, therefore if they can make a profit selling Steamdeck more power to them. They are a business, they saw a market and jumped. MS could very easily do the same for less expense (they already designed the chip previously) and they would have a strong position to compete from since they have software tailored to the device.

Xcloud is an option but isn't comparable to a local device experience.
 
You haven't put forward a single intelligent"concern" yet, therefore there is nothing to address. LOL

You literally can't address basic fundamental questions that have to be asked before things even proceed, and have done nothing but dodge because you don't have an answer.

They should because "why not" is the only statement lacking in intelligence and is the basis for your whole poorly thought-out position. All you do instead if deflect with irrelevant text walls. that still don't answer these basic questions.

You could apply this same ridiculous argument you are making to Steam and the Steamdeck.

Except you can't, because Steam intentionally had a plan beforehand for how SD would work and what the beenfits and roi would be, and were surprised it was as successful as it was relatively, they were intending lower sales for a profit to push their Steam Ecosystem. Comparatively, a portable Series S would be a money loss cannibalizing the console systems that MS already sells at low margin which they need to sell more of. While also needing to waste R&D for something that they can instead expand to partners, as they already are, without pointless burning of money while still making profits off Xcloud and gamepass without their own handheld hardware.

You're argument is poor, and you still can't even support it by answering the basic STARTING simple questions of what benefit would Xbox get from it launching this Series S handheld, and you can't do it.

Microsoft wants profits, not to have it's own PSvita with a vanity project with no real upside.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Except you can't, because Steam intentionally had a plan beforehand for how SD would work and what the beenfits and roi would be, and were surprised it was as successful as it was relatively, they were intending lower sales for a profit to push their Steam Ecosystem. Comparatively, a portable Series S would be a money loss cannibalizing the console systems that MS already sells at low margin which they need to sell more of. While also needing to waste R&D for something that they can instead expand to partners, as they already are, without pointless burning of money while still making profits off Xcloud and gamepass without their own handheld hardware.

You're argument is poor, and you still can't even support it by answering the basic STARTING simple questions of what benefit would Xbox get from it launching this Series S handheld, and you can't do it.

Microsoft wants profits, not to have it's own PSvita with a vanity project with no real upside.

Do you hear how brainless that sounds. You think if MS brought forward a product that wouldn't have thought about the benefits of the product and the ROI. Any possible conceivable benefit to the Steamdeck for Steam would be a similar benefit to MS with Xbox. LOL

The only way it would be a loss is if they made it one. MS has better manufacturing scale for components and an existing design.
 
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Do you hear how brainless that sounds. You think if MS brought forward a product that wouldn't have thought about the benefits of the product and the ROI. Any possible conceivable benefit to the Steamdeck for Steam would be a similar benefit to MS with Xbox.

Except I just explained how they are different, the reason why you're pretending that wasn't addressed, is because you can't respond to it. Just like you can't respond to basic questions that would be asked before such a project leaves a meeting room.

At the end of the day you have no valid position. You just want a "do it just because" handheld for no real reason, and won't consider what benefit (none) that it would give to Microsoft who's CURRENT strategy, is to partner with other handhelds, tablets, and laptops, for game pass and Xcloud revenue with no real expense to MS. Expanding their ecosystem without red ink.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Except I just explained how they are different, the reason why you're pretending that wasn't addressed, is because you can't respond to it. Just like you can't respond to basic questions that would be asked before such a project leaves a meeting room.

At the end of the day you have no valid position. You just want a "do it just because" handheld for no real reason, and won't consider what benefit (none) that it would give to Microsoft who's CURRENT strategy, is to partner with other handhelds, tablets, and laptops, for game pass and Xcloud revenue with no real expense to MS. Expanding their ecosystem without red ink.
You explain nothing. But continue to say that MS would have to sell at a loss. You do you.
 
You explain nothing. But continue to say that MS would have to sell at a loss. You do you.

When you can't address anything and keep cutting stuff out of quotes, it's easy to say I explained nothing, but in reality I'm the only one who did.

Sorry but "they should do it because I want them to" is not intelligent business mindset. There's also no benefit to MS, which you also can't explain, hence why you deflect to a different point you also can't answer. Now you are stuck.

There you go.
 
Just like the refreshes before, they won’t be radically different than the original systems, if real. They will just have beefier specs.
Huh? The PS4 and X1 used AMDs 2011 GCN Arch. The Pro and 1X used AMDs 2016 Polaris Arch. Considering PS5 and Series use 2020's RDNA2, I would hope Xbox next uses 2024's RDNA4 over the much maligned 2022's RDNA3.
 

Brucey

Member
Thinking something like a $49 Gamepass HDMI streaming stick. Maybe $99 bundled with a controller. Basically any Android phone and a bunch of Samsung TVs support it now, it's not really computationally expensive to pull off.
 
Thinking something like a $49 Gamepass HDMI streaming stick. Maybe $99 bundled with a controller. Basically any Android phone and a bunch of Samsung TVs support it now, it's not really computationally expensive to pull off.

It's the projector. There's a new thread on it.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
When you can't address anything and keep cutting stuff out of quotes, it's easy to say I explained nothing, but in reality I'm the only one who did.

Sorry but "they should do it because I want them to" is not intelligent business mindset. There's also no benefit to MS, which you also can't explain, hence why you deflect to a different point you also can't answer. Now you are stuck.

There you go.

I'm not stuck at all. Me and another poster were talking about how we thought they should do this eventually and you jumped in with the nonsense about somehow they could only do it at a loss.

There are products, if you can sell those products for profit, you make money. That's the real benefit for these corporations. There could certainly spin other benefits for the product though, maybe it could be used to help them crack the asian market, etc.

Me and @01011001 are just saying they should try it. You are the one making the declarative statements of why they shouldn't/could not.

You need to explain the hard realities there. Why does it cost MS more to make and maintain than Steam, when it would be piggy-backing on existing products? Why would MS be concerned whether or not a user bought a regular XSS or a portable one? How is one more damaging to them than the other assuming both models have similar margins? Is it R&D on the OS that they are already making? Costs of software that is already being made?

LOL. Pointing out how Steam can make a handheld and sell it for a profit with very limited connections to hardware manufacturing, but saying that MS couldn't do the same with better volume (sharing parts with the standard S console) is a new one for me.
 
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I think its just an art installation showing their history. And it ends saying "and into the future!" Its nothing. Makes sense to remind devs they are staying in it long term since its GDC. I dont think its anything beyond that, but who knows.
No company that is confident with their current products would do this. You don't want to talk about the next gen when there is current gen to sell and market. Last I remember some game company that did this, it was the Jaguar.

Okay, maybe the Sony Playstation 9 ad counts, but I am pretty sure it is so far away most people wouldn't remember the ad by then.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
No company that is confident with their current products would do this. You don't want to talk about the next gen when there is current gen to sell and market. Last I remember some game company that did this, it was the Jaguar.

Okay, maybe the Sony Playstation 9 ad counts, but I am pretty sure it is so far away most people wouldn't remember the ad by then.

We are right in the window where the platforms begin to talk about slims and refreshes if they are happening LOL.

I hope you have the same concern when the PS5 slim gets announced this summer as has widely been reported.
 
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We are right in the window where the platforms begin to talk about slims and refreshes if they are happening LOL.

I hope you have the same concern when the PS5 slim gets announced this summer as has widely been reported.
Sony never made it a media speculation when it comes to Slims. They announce it when it is ready to ship and not before. In general you don't do it before shipment for obvious reason that affect sales. Xbox better have something that is more than a Slim to announce or they are running out of ideas.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Sony never made it a media speculation when it comes to Slims. They announce it when it is ready to ship and not before. In general you don't do it before shipment for obvious reason that affect sales. Xbox better have something that is more than a Slim to announce or they are running out of ideas.

Why? Where does this pressure for MS to announce something sooner than PS come from?

Sony has not said a peep officially about a slim or a pro, and neither has MS. Or are you saying that because people projected something onto that empty box in the display, now they have to announce something? Though MS did announce the 1X a year in advance, I don't see where they have any pressure to announce anything. Is Sony out of ideas because they haven't announced anything yet?
 
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