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[AV]

How many resources can this seriously suck up in the entire development cycle of a video game?

A day for someone to make the list? Maybe a few days for a couple of devs to put in the triggers? And then a few more days for a graphic artist to render the images? Come on now. I'm a software dev that doesn't make games so maybe I'm talking out of my ass but it doesn't seem that hard. But that tiny amount of work to attract trophy hunters is absolutely worth their time.

 

[Hypereides]

Will never understand the hate for an entirely innocuous system you can completely opt out of engaging with. They don’t hurt your gameplay experience in the least and certainly are not “bad for gaming.” I think people trip over themselves to be the first to let everyone know how little they care about achievements. It’s honestly great they exist so they have something to flex about.

Agreed.

Honestly, achievements and trophies provide an additional gameplay layer. Some times it seems like those that don't like them just aren't very good and don't like to see that reflected in their achievement/trophy set.

 

[Fluo]

Good achievements encourage and guide you to explore everything the game offers. See every ending, complete every side story, experience different playstyles.
Bad achievements encourage you to do stupid things for the sake of doing stupid things. Killing insanely high amount of enemies, unfair modes, ironman modes, speedruns. These are too niche, add nothing to the game experience and enjoyed only by hardcore players who would've done it without any achievement anyway.

I do the good ones, ignore the bad ones.

 

[acm2000]

totally the opposite for me, along with getting me to explore games more while i play them, achievement hunting when i have nothing to play makes me play games i wouldnt usually play and also go back to games ive already finished which otherwise wouldve been long forgotten.

 

[buenoblue]

I agree. I've never actively sought out an achiement on any platform ever.

 

[Beer Baelly]

My E-Penis is huge unlike my real dick

 

[The Cartographer]

I find achievements and trophies to be utterly worthless but in recent years I've come to appreciate a little the fact that they track down the exact dates of your ''accomplishments''.

 

[Three]

How many resources can this seriously suck up in the entire development cycle of a video game?

A day for someone to make the list? Maybe a few days for a couple of devs to put in the triggers? And then a few more days for a graphic artist to render the images? Come on now. I'm a software dev that doesn't make games so maybe I'm talking out of my ass but it doesn't seem that hard. But that tiny amount of work to attract trophy hunters is absolutely worth their time.

He is now at Ubisoft Massive. Ubisoft tend to be a little sketchy with achievement support.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022...urn-to-steam-is-missing-in-game-achievements/

I'm not sure why but there is probably at least some valid reason why. Maybe some patent about making an easy universal achievement wrapper? Who knows why they don't do it.

 

[Braag]

I've only ever used achievements as metrics for collecting things in games, never went out of my way to complete them. No shame if you're a cheevo hunter, but they are meaningless to me.

I am continually surprised no platform ever tried to leverage achievements as a "rewards" program to redeem achievement points for DLC/Extras like wallpapers, avatar icons etc.

I remember Sony had a handful of campaigns where you could reverse auction your trophies for old physical promo merch, but outside of that they never took advantage.

If I could get free DLC for a game just by getting the achievements, I'm 1000% more likely to pay attention to them.

Didn't Ubisoft have this system in Uplay where certain achievements gave you points you could spend them on small in game DLCs like extra items or a weapon.
Dunno if they still have this though.

 

[kubricks]

Agreed.

Achievement can exist, as an option and being off as default.

 

[GHound]

It narrows games down, it disrupts and diverts attention, and it eats resources that could have made the game better.

Maybe he should stick to making bad games instead of bad arguments.

 

[M1chl]

Meh "waste of effort", the effort is so minuscule that I don't know what he is talking about. For uninitiated, Steam, MS, Sony are using static calling to SDK, which means that you have some routine, where something cool happens, like kill or whatever and you just call it like:

sdk.unlockAchievement(id, points)

Anywhere where you have your app context and that's it.

points meaning if the Achievement has like do 25 of X, so you put the number there.

 

[Laptop1991]

I rarely get them all in my games, and only now and then play to unlock some, it wouldn't stop me playing if they wern't in a game.

 

[Ash Sparrow]

I loved achievements in Goat simulator. I thought it helped the game out tremendously.

 

[Interfectum]

Yeah let's give more time to come up with more MTX schemes instead. Or maybe they can bloat their UIs even more.

Nah, stfu and get to work on those achievements buddy.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I think they are a good thing overall. If you don't want to achievement hunt don't, but if you do have at it.

They allow you to glance at a players profile and get a sense of the games they choose to complete and whatnot.

 

[mckmas8808]

Couldn’t agree more.

I couldn't disagree with him more. It makes literally every game better to me.

 

[AndrewRyan]

I am continually surprised no platform ever tried to leverage achievements as a "rewards" program to redeem achievement points for DLC/Extras like wallpapers, avatar icons etc.

When the 360 launched I didn't understand the difference between gold points and achievement points so thought they were doing what you suggest- a way to earn credits for playing the game.

Thought that was the coolest thing until trying to spend them for the first time, lol. It's the only time I ever cared about achievements but if others like them and it motivates them to play more then it's no problem and I like the stats.

 

[Fahdis]

So wait... some of you guys are pissed about achievements which are free and optional but get your dicks erect into paying for Season Passes/Skins/MTX? Do me a favor you whiners. Take the time to go into settings and turn them off. Leave the people who like achievements to do what they like. It is no different than getting an internal item in a game that you originally grinded for or did something hard (see FFX and Ratchet & Clank before achievements were ever a thing).

Maybe it feels invalidating to most people seeing that they aren't as good (projection) or they just don't care (this option is acceptable). I would love if "do x thing a 1000 times" or "multiplayer trophies" disappeared though.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Don’t agree and I don’t chase trophies. People enjoy different parts of games for different reasons. The argument that it takes up resources also falls flat as most games are already bloated with unnecessary crap. Don’t like them? Then leave them be. Play games for you.

There is a big difference between the quality of trophies too. In a story based game it can be used as a tool to reinforce an important part of the story which aids the player. To act like they are all bad is a crappy take at best.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

I personally like achievements and trophies. And I wish Nintendo had them in their games.

I really doubt creating checklists to “kill 50 enemies with this specific attack skill” or “open 20 secret chests” and implement it in the game is anywhere near as time-consuming as actually developing or designing a game.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You can... you can ignore than and turn the notifications off. No harm, no foul.

If you're designing your game around them, then your priorities are out of touch with the design philosophy.

 

[DaGwaphics]

You can... you can ignore than and turn the notifications off. No harm, no foul.

If you're designing your game around them, then your priorities are out of touch with the design philosophy.

This. It doesn't seem like there is much in the way of rules regarding these things, many games just have unmissable story based achievements. The devs can just do that if they don't want to have systems in place to track other stats.

 

[DeepEnigma]

This. It doesn't seem like there is much in the way of rules regarding these things, many games just have unmissable story based achievements. The devs can just do that if they don't want to have systems in place to track other stats.

And they're very simple to implement. It's just a draw call to a the memory trigger of a specific event.

 

[Danknugz]

i only care about xbox achievements because some pathetic loser reported my account back in 2016 and i had 10 years of game history and 230k gamer score wiped out. admittedly cheated but only a handful of games and 90% other were legit.

maybe it's because xbox was the first with achievements and i was a lot younger back in 2005, but i feel the same way as this guy about steam achievements and playstation trophies, nothing at all compared to the slight dopamine hit i fet from popping an xbox achievement to one day get my gamer score back. it always kind of makes me feel like a nerd / loser for even caring about that, but ultimately i don't really care, i just do what's fun, and that is kind of fun to me.

 

[Larxia]

I think they are quite problematic yes.

A lot of people here don't understand the complaint about them, that you can just ignore them, and that's what a lot of us do yes, but a lot of people also can't seem to ignore them, even when it frustrates them, and that's a problem.
I've seen a lot of people who became obsessed with "completion" when achievements / trophies became a thing, and they started playing games in a very robotic way, where everything needs to be done at 100% no matter what, even if it's painful, tedious. That's really no enjoyment at all. I think it ruined a lot of people's vision of gaming.

You even have people who will look at the list of achievements before starting a game, to be sure to not miss anything. This will shape and design the way they will actually experience the game. Instead of playing naturally like they would have done in a different context, they might do things differently, or spam the same attack 2000 times because an achievement required you to do so. That's honestly sad in my opinion.

I used to try to do them when they were introduced on ps3, but I quickly realized that it could lead to me actually hating a game I really enjoyed before getting into the achievements, because most of them are way too tedious and will really ruin your last impressions of a game.
I now only do them on very rare special occasions for games I really love and want to spend more time on with no other ideas on what else to do, but even in such case, I might not go for 100% achievements if some of them are insanely tedious / stupid (like in kingdom hearts for example, even if you beat the games in critical, you still need to play the game in easy, medium, hard difficulties to unlock the achievement for each of them, that's just awful).

 

[Dr. Claus]

I think they are quite problematic yes.

A lot of people here don't understand the complaint about them, that you can just ignore them, and that's what a lot of us do yes, but a lot of people also can't seem to ignore them, even when it frustrates them, and that's a problem.
I've seen a lot of people who became obsessed with "completion" when achievements / trophies became a thing, and they started playing games in a very robotic way, where everything needs to be done at 100% no matter what, even if it's painful, tedious. That's really no enjoyment at all. I think it ruined a lot of people's vision of gaming.

You even have people who will look at the list of achievements before starting a game, to be sure to not miss anything. This will shape and design the way they will actually experience the game. Instead of playing naturally like they would have done in a different context, they might do things differently, or spam the same attack 2000 times because an achievement required you to do so. That's honestly sad in my opinion.

I used to try to do them when they were introduced on ps3, but I quickly realized that it could lead to me actually hating a game I really enjoyed before getting into the achievements, because most of them are way too tedious and will really ruin your last impressions of a game.
I now only do them on very rare special occasions for games I really love and want to spend more time on with no other ideas on what else to do, but even in such case, I might not go for 100% achievements if some of them are insanely tedious / stupid (like in kingdom hearts for example, even if you beat the games in critical, you still need to play the game in easy, medium, hard difficulties to unlock the achievement for each of them, that's just awful).

So the issue is that some dumbasses can't control themselves? Boo frickety hoo.

 

[Danknugz]

well for me, back in the ps2 days i was one of those who had multiple memory cards with all my game saves from those which I completed so i could somehow retain a record of it (even though i never went back), so achievements to me weren't so much about the score but more an extension of this, a built in journaling system that was also cloud based and automatic, it's a really good way of saving your gaming history. but like a lot of others i also was lured in by increasing your overall score.

 

[fart town usa]

I'd have to strongly disagree.

For one, I rarely care about trophies and trophies didn't create the trajectory that games would follow PS3/360 onward.

We had collecathon style games for years prior to achievements entering the scene. Banjo-Kazooie anyone? lol.

As for being a distraction, maybe if you're a trophy hunter but that's a personal problem that likely isn't considered a problem by the person actively hunting trophies because they aren't distracted by trophies, getting trophies is what engages them. For anyone else, trophies are just there and you can turn the notifications off so they may as well not exist.

This just seems like a dumb take.

 

[Larxia]

Implemented correctly with it also offers valuable metrics. Less than 1% of players saw the ending? Your game might be too hard.

I'm not so sure about that. I get what you mean but sometimes I do check the stats out of curiosity on steam, and often notice super strange stuff like only 20% of the people passed the first mission on a game or something lol Ton of people don't seem to actually play the games.

 

[remember_spinal]

I'd have to strongly disagree.

For one, I rarely care about trophies and trophies didn't create the trajectory that games would follow PS3/360 onward.

We had collecathon style games for years prior to achievements entering the scene. Banjo-Kazooie anyone? lol.

As for being a distraction, maybe if you're a trophy hunter but that's a personal problem that likely isn't considered a problem by the person actively hunting trophies because they aren't distracted by trophies, getting trophies is what engages them. For anyone else, trophies are just there and you can turn the notifications off so they may as well not exist.

This just seems like a dumb take.

Breath of The Wild is like the most collect-a-thon game (damn poop korok) and nintendo doesn’t even have a trophy/achievement system

 

[nkarafo]

So the issue is that some dumbasses can't control themselves? Boo frickety hoo.

OCD is a thing.

 

[killatopak]

OCD is a thing.

You can disable it.

If you're really OCD about any trophy appearing on your profile then set up a guest account, play your games there, and transfer save files to your main account before logging off.

Clean account.

 

[Pasta la Vista]

No way. I mean we wouldn't have great games like "Jumping Burrito" and "Jumping Taco" if it wasn't for achievements and trophies.

 

[Dr. Claus]

OCD is a thing.

And? The entire system should kowtow to a few people with OCD? Nah, mate. That is idiotic.

 

[nkarafo]

And? The entire system should kowtow to a few people with OCD? Nah, mate. That is idiotic.

There should be a way to easily disable achievements, not just the popups but to completely opt out from the whole system.

 

[Dr. Claus]

There should be a way to easily disable achievements, not just the popups but to completely opt out from the whole system.

That I can agree with. Would love for more choices. Even just deleting particular achievement lists or games if I want to recomplete them without needing to start a brand new account.

 

[Mowcno]

Nah they're great. They're like a game diary. I can look back over a decade and see what I played, when I played it and whether I finished a game or not.

I find them to be very valuable.

 

[Arachnid]

Yeah, they suck. I did everything there is to do in BOTW because I wanted to. Same with Metroid Dread. It would have been annoying if they had arbitrary bullshit like "Kill 20 Lizalfos by dropping a box on them - 35g", I'd probably go out of my way to do that, and it would be annoying. I found myself constantly achievement hunting games a few years ago so I started to ignore it instead of treating it like a job, and gaming has actually gotten a lot more enjoyable. Now I only achievement hunt for my dead favorite games (you can damn well bet I'll get every achievement in RE4make, and it makes me feel like a hamster on a wheel; I'll definitely ignore them for my first playthrough though) just to have a reason to keep playing.

Games feel weirdly more exploratory and magical without achievements IMO.

 

[Aenima]

Hard disagree. Games are not designed around achievments/trophies. They are free and can offer replay value, especially great for short games.

Thanks to trying to go for the platinum trophy in certain games, i challeged myself in ways i would never even think about doing before. I can also ignore them if im not in mood for them or if they are just bad implemented.

Usually i just look at the trophy list after beating the game. If im still wishing to play more of that game I might try go for the trophies i missed.

 

[kiphalfton]

This is… false. The allure of achievements encourages me to do things or see parts of the game I would have otherwise never experienced. Playing as a certain character or going to a certain place or performing a certain action in combination with the aforementioned? I might not have even known that was possible otherwise.

Achievements can help flesh out what might otherwise be a very narrow path forward. Or it might encourage a second playthrough. Any system that encourages engagement with your product is objectively a good thing for the creator of that product.

TL;DR: suck it up.

The same could be said if I told you to walk back around your kitchen after you shut your fridge door.

Oh wow, that experience was made so much better by doing something absolutely unnecessary.

 

[Fuz]

He's right you know.

 

[ungalo]

It's a pretty vague statement. I don't really agree even though i have trouble understanding what he's referring to.

I think the vast majority of players don't give a shit about that so it won't affect the global perception of a game if some trophies ask you to do certain things that potentially alter the experience in a certain way, most people won't even know about it. Especially in a first playthrough, only people obsessed with trophies will consider them on a first run of the game.

And i don't buy the "it eats resources" argument either honestly. Not in any substantial way.

 

[Rest]

I can't imagine caring about trophies.

 

[Topher]

I was playing Tinykin on Xbox. There was some racing element to it that I really didn't feel like getting into. So I ignored it.

Not sure why this is hard.

 

[SteadyEvo]

A simple playtime counter like Nintendo is all that’s needed

 

[GametimeUK]

This is funny to me because even though they could have incentivised the reward differently, the trophy on Mirrors Edge for finishing the game without shooting an enemy actually got people to play the game "the correct way".

To be honest the incentive being a trophy / achievement probably required the least effort out of anything they could have done.

 

[lachesis]

Well, I think of Achievements and Trophies as something in line of in-game side quest - or game within game type deal - and not necessarily a bad thing when its used right.
In certain cases - it can highlight and guide users to fully experience what the game can offer. But there are a ton of stuff that's really kinda out there for the sake of it.
Something like... say, listening to every single voice acting of Rise in Persona 4 Golden, is indeed just stupid.

 

[Comandr]

The same could be said if I told you to walk back around your kitchen after you shut your fridge door.

Oh wow, that experience was made so much better by doing something absolutely unnecessary.

But … it’s optional. In your scenario I could just as easily say “no.” checkmate.

 

[Batiman]

They always were