• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Modern online shooters sucks and are no longer fun.

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
I think SBMM does the exact opposite of what you allege. In other words, I think you are complaining that it won't let you make games into a sweatfest for 99% of the other people. :messenger_grinning_smiling:
If everyone is as good as you, you have to play like a sweat in order to compete. That doesn't happen without skill based matchmaking.
 

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Yes. What's the fuckin point of being good at the game if you're always gonna be matched up with people better than you
You get good to flex and look awesome, and also for the game to be more fun. That doesn't happen when the game is consistently trying to make every match a goddamn sweatfest
Not sure what you point is. What is "being good" for you?
 

baphomet

Member
puts tinfoil hat on

That's the intention. They don't want it to be fun. Lets review what happened in 2007:

Halo 3 releases and it dominates the Xbox market, like no other game ever has. Halo 3 is still to this day the only console game to be the most played game for three fucking years in a row. And you know the only game that came close that? Halo 2 for two years. So that's pretty good right? Any sane company that looks at this game, they're going to take a spyglass at it to make sure it's retain it's success...right? But was it really good for Microsoft? Lets look at the details.

Microsoft wants every customer to keep buying software consistently. That was not happening for Halo 3. People played Halo 3 for the matchmaking and stayed for the custom games. All night, they played with their friends and had fun. But you know what they weren't doing? Buying other games. Uh oh, we have a problem. The game is too good.

Just look at Gary's Mod and Team Fortress 2. These games are over a decade old and still have a population that companies would kill people to have, games that don't have any modern practices like season passes, SBMM, etc. Why hasn't this model been chased like no other? Because Valve is private and in private companies, money is king. In public companies, consistent growth is king. It keeps the stock flowing. Putting all your eggs in one quarter (even if it brings more money) doesn't look good on the stock market. "Fun" games are cancer to these public companies and they will fall on their sword to avoid it. They are making these games down to a science. They are exactly good enough to get you to buy the game but not good enough to keep you playing because they need you to move on.

You do realize Modern Warfare released in 2007, had SBMM, and sold more copies than Halo 3 right?
 

Lady Jane

Banned
You do realize Modern Warfare released in 2007, had SBMM, and sold more copies than Halo 3 right?

Um, okay? You do realize CoD4 was multiplatform right? Halo 3 was more popular on the Xbox. It sold more and was played more than CoD4 on Xbox and it had better retainability, hence it being the most played on Xbox for three years.
 
Last edited:

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
You do realize Modern Warfare released in 2007, had SBMM, and sold more copies than Halo 3 right?

I still play cod 4 mw remastered regularly, and I usually do pretty well in this game. I never feel like sweaty games at all like in MW19.
 

baphomet

Member
Um, okay? You do realize CoD4 released on three platforms right? Halo 3 was more popular on the Xbox. It sold more and was played more than CoD4 on Xbox and it had better retainability.

Halo 3 didn't sell more. It sold more in 2007 where it was available twice as long as Modern Warfare. It was played more on Xbox alone, once you add PS3 and PC it's not.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
I still play cod 4 mw remastered regularly, and I usually do pretty well in this game. I never feel like sweaty games at all like in MW19.

Is that because you played it to death in 2007 and still remembered all the maps, loadouts etc. in the remaster? That's exactly what happened to me and my friends. We were better at COD4 remastered because we played it for 2 years straight back in the day.
 

Lady Jane

Banned
Halo 3 didn't sell more. It sold more in 2007 where it was available twice as long as Modern Warfare. It was played more on Xbox alone, once you add PS3 and PC it's not.

What are you going on about? Why are you turning this into a Halo vs CoD argument like it's 2008? I said it was played more on Xbox and you come back with "yeah it was, but guess what? It was actually played more if you add other platforms! Ha, gotcha!" Yeah that's why I specifically said Xbox. What's your deal?
 
Last edited:

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Having a positive k/d ratio is being good to me, LOL

I am not good at many fps games, but seeing good players inspire me. That inspiration wouldn't occur if I were just in a server full of people as bad as I am
So you "draw" with everyone in every match that you play with sbmm?
 

baphomet

Member
What are you going on about? Why are you turning this into a Halo vs CoD argument like it's 2008? I said it was played more on Xbox and you come back with "yeah it was, but guess what? It was actually played more if you add other platforms! Ha, gotcha!" Yeah that's why I said Xbox. What's your deal?

I'm just pointing out that your dumbass post up there is wrong.
 

MikeM

Member
I’m plenty happy with Halo Infinite and COD CW. Not sure i’ll buy the new MW2. Something just feels off.
 

Holammer

Member
For me the worst offender is every MP game being team or squad based, while some also being "hero based" which is some shit I've grown to hate.

Matchmaking also sucks, just let me choose a server from a list.
With the exception of TF2, otherwise we can't be friends.
Nowadays it's a monetization strategy and crammed into games where it does not belong, like Battlefield. With Overwatch there's an excuse.
 

Jebron

Member
Yeah, I'm feeling the same way lately. Online FPS games used to be my favorite genre, but lately it all feels so forced and bland. I tried to enjoy all the Battle Royale games but it's just not my jam.
 

Lady Jane

Banned
I'm just pointing out that your dumbass post up there is wrong.

No it isn't. I specifically said Xbox for a reason. You coming back with "but that's not true if you add other platforms!" is silly. Of course I know that, that's why I said Xbox specially in the post. Good lord.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Is that because you played it to death in 2007 and still remembered all the maps, loadouts etc. in the remaster? That's exactly what happened to me and my friends. We were better at COD4 remastered because we played it for 2 years straight back in the day.

Not really. I have played MW19 enough to know locations, where people usually go etc, and gets my ass handed.

I don't know if it's the case, but I do play it on pc so I don't know if I gets matched up against cheaters a lot.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Shooters suck because it's not fun having a KD ratio below 1.0. People quit when they're consistently getting killed more often than they're doing the killing.

BRs and Survival games have taken over because low skill players can set alternative objectives which helps retain players.

We ain't going backwards. Dead design is dead design.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Not really. I have played MW19 enough to know locations, where people usually go etc, and gets my ass handed.

I don't know if it's the case, but I do play it on pc so I don't know if I gets matched up against cheaters a lot.

Could just be that you're better with a controller, so you're winning more on COD4 remastered on console. Maybe try MW19 on console and see if you feel differently.
 
I'm not advocating for good players to be put in servers with scrubs. The skill distribution should be random and spread out, where regardless of skill you get paired with whos joining. We get to see who's the best and who's the worst in action and the match is not only more fun because of it, but more memorable

Another easy way to solve this is... again, server browsers. People can make servers specifically meant for people who are either scrubs or great at the game, and servers for people all in-between. The skill based matchmaking makes itself except with server browsers, players can opt out and join any random server if they desire
You’re not advocating for good players to be put with scrubs, just have the skill randomly distributed… did you think about the results of that plan at all? Sbmm doesn’t put you with people better than you, it tries to match skill. When someone is dominating you they are having that fun experience you wish you were having dominating someone less skilled than you. I’m not opposed to random matchmaking at all, though it has plenty of problems, but to act like skill based matchmaking is so terrible because it evens the playing field to where you have a consistent challenge is silly. Seems like the sbmm sucks crowd never considers how the person getting dunked on feels, it’s just their own hurt pride they are concerned with not the health of the game. So you don’t have fun getting owned? You just want to own other people? Get gud then scrubs.
 

Sojiro

Member
For me the worst offender is every MP game being team or squad based, while some also being "hero based" which is some shit I've grown to hate.

Matchmaking also sucks, just let me choose a server from a list.
Honestly the bolded is the biggest issue with most modern shooters. Some of my favorite times are the server communities I came across in games, while the players might not be the best gamers you come across, you got to know the frequent visitors, clan members, and admins and just had a community of people to play and bullshit with.
 
Last edited:

Rykan

Member
I'm not advocating for good players to be put in servers with scrubs. The skill distribution should be random and spread out, where regardless of skill you get paired with whos joining. We get to see who's the best and who's the worst in action and the match is not only more fun because of it, but more memorable
This is a contradiction. You're not advocating for good players to be put in servers/matched with scrubs, but that is exactly what happens when you randomly distribute players of all skills and match them up with each other.
Another easy way to solve this is... again, server browsers. People can make servers specifically meant for people who are either scrubs or great at the game, and servers for people all in-between. The skill based matchmaking makes itself except with server browsers, players can opt out and join any random server if they desire
Servers browsers are terrible. You're basically asking people to judge their own skill accurately and then spend every play session looking for servers that belong to their skill level, and then hope that other players respect the skill level of the server, which is impossible.

These are all bad alternative "solutions" for a problem that has already been fixed. SBMM creates fair matches and while you certainly can argue about the finer details of it, or that it's not fine tuned properly, but there's no denying that it is by far the best matchmaking tool for online games.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
If everyone is as good as you, you have to play like a sweat in order to compete. That doesn't happen without skill based matchmaking.

Are you ever interested in looking at the quit rates of players who have a sub 1.0 KD ratio?

How long do you think players with a .5 KD stick around? .25 etc...?

Would you like seeing this data or is it irrelevant because you're confident in your position?
 
This is a contradiction. You're not advocating for good players to be put in servers/matched with scrubs, but that is exactly what happens when you randomly distribute players of all skills and match them up with each other.

Servers browsers are terrible. You're basically asking people to judge their own skill accurately and then spend every play session looking for servers that belong to their skill level, and then hope that other players respect the skill level of the server, which is impossible.

These are all bad alternative "solutions" for a problem that has already been fixed. SBMM creates fair matches and while you certainly can argue about the finer details of it, or that it's not fine tuned properly, but there's no denying that it is by far the best matchmaking tool for online games.
Exactly, they should just be honest and say “I only have fun when I’m owning noobs, the game should empower me to be the alpha shooter god that I believe I am in my head” Those fucking sweaty ass losers all they care about is winning, not like me… oh wait
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
With the exception of TF2, otherwise we can't be friends.
Nowadays it's a monetization strategy and crammed into games where it does not belong, like Battlefield. With Overwatch there's an excuse.
Let me check... yeah I have 75 hours on TF2 lol. :goog_relieved:

That game was quite fine. Even if it's hero based the different characters don't do too crazy stuff and more like your typical roles than anything else. It's not as goofy or epilepsy inducing as Overwatch for example.
 
If it wasn't for Halo Infinite, I agree with OP. But Battlefield 2042 didn't suck because of diversity, it sucked because the gameplay/netcode is terrible.
 

Danknugz

Member
This is a contradiction. You're not advocating for good players to be put in servers/matched with scrubs, but that is exactly what happens when you randomly distribute players of all skills and match them up with each other.

Servers browsers are terrible. You're basically asking people to judge their own skill accurately and then spend every play session looking for servers that belong to their skill level, and then hope that other players respect the skill level of the server, which is impossible.

These are all bad alternative "solutions" for a problem that has already been fixed. SBMM creates fair matches and while you certainly can argue about the finer details of it, or that it's not fine tuned properly, but there's no denying that it is by far the best matchmaking tool for online games.
i think the problem is that everyone tends to see this issue through the lens of the alpha bro shooter types / competitive gaming. which is normal because these kinds of games are competitive in nature. but not everyone who plays them wants to be "the best" or trying to get sponsored or whatever. some people just play for fun without wanting to win, and server browsers allow them to choose who they play with. would that prevent try hards from joining and "ruining" the fun? not really but it does at least give these non competitive players an option otherwise.
 

chixdiggit

Member
Y7Re8On.gif


1TR7pX1.gif
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Servers browsers are terrible. You're basically asking people to judge their own skill accurately and then spend every play session looking for servers that belong to their skill level, and then hope that other players respect the skill level of the server, which is impossible.
You don't need to judge it, there is an objective metric. If you have a great average k/d ratio and you're constantly top or near the top of the scoreboards in every match you join, you're likely good. If you're just starting out/ your k/d ratio isn't a good, you're bad. Other players will respect that skill level because scrubs joining a pro server immediately get bodied, and pros joining a scrub server immediately get banned.
 
If you’re looking for something a little different, look up Deep Rock Galactic.

It’s PvE, but satisfied an itch I had for old school fps action where there is a lot to play towards, and everything is free. Great 4 player fun.
 

Rykan

Member
You don't need to judge it, there is an objective metric. If you have a great average k/d ratio and you're constantly top or near the top of the scoreboards in every match you join, you're likely good. If you're just starting out/ your k/d ratio isn't a good, you're bad. Other players will respect that skill level because scrubs joining a pro server immediately get bodied, and pros joining a scrub server immediately get banned.
Get banned by who? Do we now rely on players in servers to correctly moderate the people playing on servers? This whole system depends on players moderating the servers themselves and requires an enormous amount of effort. I first have to play several matches on a server to "See if this is appropriate for my skill level"? Now we have people complaining that they get matched up with players that are too good after they had a few good rounds, wonder how they'll feel when they get banned from servers for that.

There's far too many issues with server browsers. SBMM is simply a much better solution for creating fair matches.

i think the problem is that everyone tends to see this issue through the lens of the alpha bro shooter types / competitive gaming. which is normal because these kinds of games are competitive in nature. but not everyone who plays them wants to be "the best" or trying to get sponsored or whatever. some people just play for fun without wanting to win, and server browsers allow them to choose who they play with. would that prevent try hards from joining and "ruining" the fun? not really but it does at least give these non competitive players an option otherwise.
And people who aren't playing well because they are just playing for fun will be matched up with other players around the same skill level. What is the issue here?
 
Last edited:
Not sure I I agree with you here. Shooters (probably most online games really) are full of FOMO bullshit to keep up player engagement.

Single player shooters are pretty great though!
The gameplay on modern shooters are better than ever. 60fps and higher resolutions one thing, but a game like MW only improved on the original from a gamepaly pov, same with a games like infinite and doom. the issue people have with the games are the GAAS models, not the gameplay itself. MW did it well tho. Infinite, we know that state of that. Gameplay is more smooth than ever.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes



Shooting Star GIF
SBMM was way different back then as anyone who has played CoD every year since MW1 would know. Games like Blops used a less aggressive form of SBMM than Advanced Warfare which was so bad that players would create new account to get a bad KDR and get into lobbies where they would go on 150 killstreaks. 150. How is that better for anyone?

I have played games where I would be paired up with guys going 1-15 and games where everyone would literally be around 1 KDR. Id rather play the game where im being held back by morons than playing with sweaty try hards in every single match.

COD also does a lot of BS things behind the scenes by purposefully spawning you behind players to get you easy kills. Devs have done on record saying this. I play BF1, MAG, Socom, and KZ relgiously so i dont really care about having an amazing KDR as long as my team wins, but CoD is not a team objective based game. The only objective is to go on killstreaks and if you cant do that because of SBMM or devs doing shady things then whats the point in playing?
 
I've never played Fortnite. I like games with a variety of tasks. Not just shooting and looting. Actual colourful cutscenes, great character development and the odd good battle to get the blood pumping. :)

Ah, I best go watch a movie then. :D
 
Last edited:

Knightime_X

Member
Just play on small chaotic maps.
Stop worrying about your kdr, you'll have more fun (and ultimately perform better) by fucking around and enjoying yourself.

When it comes to modes like Domination, I'm RELENTLESS.
riuL9oo.jpg
 
Top Bottom