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MS Earnings Call - FY23Q3 | 4% decline for MS Gaming, Xbox HW down 30%

Roufianos

Member
Seems like a wildly premature response based on outdated thinking about what the Xbox business actually is. This is nowhere near as bad a report as some think unless people only focus on the hardware numbers.

It's their strongest non-holiday quarter ever for xbox content & services, which includes Game Pass. Game Pass' continued growth totally defied Microsoft's expectations in a positive way, leading to the exact opposite of the worst outcomes Microsoft predicted in their previous quarterly report. Content and Services went from an expected loss to revenue growth due to Game Pass. Xbox revenue overall didn't decline as much as expected.




They're about to add $7-$8 billion in revenue from Activision Blizzard plus be able to count Diablo IV, Redfall, Minecraft Legends, Starfield, Forza, COD 2023, Warzone and Warzone mobile, etc,. among their balance sheets this year at some stage in the next 2 quarters. I can't think of a more perfect storm from a gaming business standpoint, especially how the ABK closing will impact Game Pass growth. Anyone who looks at the full picture sees there's nothing alarming here besides their console supply situation.

From a pure business outlook, anybody can see that any premature claim of a doomed Xbox is suffering from a lack understanding that they're not getting the complete picture. That complete picture includes Activision Blizzard. Even without them it's clear to see that Xbox is in prime position. And thinking Redfall will do nothing appears a little too skeptical when it's quite obvious from those Game Pass content and services results that Hi-Fi Rush, Halo Infinite Season 3 and an Xbox Direct had a seemingly far bigger impact than many thought it would, to the point that it led to a record non holiday quarter for Xbox content and services and the Xbox revenue as a whole outperformed Microsoft's expectations from last quarter along with content and surprises which posted a gain when Microsoft expected a loss. Notice also Microsoft predicting they would have worse supply compared to the prior year in their forecast?

GTJCnx1.png

Oh please, Game Pass has been hovering in the 25m-30m range for years now, despite them keeping it at an unsustainable price.

There's all these claims of hardware shortages yet it's readily available in the US from what I've seen. Same here in the UK.

The fact that your reason to be bullish is the acquisition is a problem in itself. Where would Microsoft even be without Bethesda and Activision? Their management of all these acquired studios late last gen has been shambolic.

I doubt Hi-Fi rush did anything to boost numbers, revenue is only up a small % despite several new games coming to the service. Redfall may lead to a slight boost though expecting it to be a big deal is completely unrealistic.

Starfield will obviously be huge.
 
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DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Exactly. This is what real xbox fans should be demanding. Not Jerking off over their revenue! Are you fans or shills?

Yup, they shouldn't be rewarded when they are lacking in releases. Big exclusives move hardware. They are missing big exclusives, so good to see rhe market is voting with their wallets on that.

If gamepass is growing, that is good as the service is good, so they deserve growth on that front.

It's becoming more and more obvious that this year is pivotal for them. They need to sort their releases out and turn the ship around on hardware sales or this generation is going to be bad vs previous...which is wild to think
 

farmerboy

Member
MS the company is a juggernaut.
Does anyone ever foresee MS cutting Xbox loose? Like, what is the percentage of MS's total revenue attributable to Xbox? Is it a number small enough to contemplate dropping the brand altogether?
 

phil_t98

#SonyToo
MS the company is a juggernaut.
Does anyone ever foresee MS cutting Xbox loose? Like, what is the percentage of MS's total revenue attributable to Xbox? Is it a number small enough to contemplate dropping the brand altogether?

not after spending 70 billion on Activision, the profits will be down because of the driest year for games xbox ever had, was a really bad year for them
 

yazenov

Member
MS the company is a juggernaut.
Does anyone ever foresee MS cutting Xbox loose? Like, what is the percentage of MS's total revenue attributable to Xbox? Is it a number small enough to contemplate dropping the brand altogether?

They should just ditch the hardware since it's clear that they have little demand for their hardware products. It's probably a money sink for them. 30% down on hardware is a huge decline, especially in the 3rd year of your new console release where the hype and momentum of the launch of the console should be at a maximum.

More profit and revenue could be made if they went full 3rd party like Sega and release their games to the most popular platform for 3rd parties AKA Playstation, where most of the software is being sold.

I see no reason for MS to continue with their gaming hardware business. Maybe just continue releasing controllers and accessories for the PC.
 

Darsxx82

Member
I think that number is 40 million, not 25 million. But agree with everything else.
No, XBOX 1 only sold 25 million worldwide. Gamecube 21 million.

That says a lot about that time and the dominance of PS2. It's normal for people who don't remember to be surprised 😅
 

feynoob

Banned
You know so much yet you didn’t know Diablo is not going to game pass! You sound moronic as fuck! An investor is gonna look at things that are not performing well just as much as what is performing good! -30% on something and we’re having a chat about that!

Stephen A Smith Eye Roll GIF by ESPN
 
The question is by how much? Many COD players are invested in PlayStation at this point. We know COD will probably remain on PS5 (and possibly PS6). It is going to be interesting to see how much COD will be able to pull from PlayStation. I have been interested in that since this whole acquisition was announced.
Indeed. Will people spend hundreds on a new console and a sub instead of just buying the game on the console they already have and their friends already have?

I can only see that being an issue next gen.
 

Astray

Gold Member
Does anyone ever foresee MS cutting Xbox loose? Like, what is the percentage of MS's total revenue attributable to Xbox? Is it a number small enough to contemplate dropping the brand altogether?
Microsoft shuttering the Xbox brand is not as impossible as Xbox fans think it is, but is also not this easy decision that Sony fans think it is. I elaborated a bit here yesterday if you are interested (quoted for your convenience).

One thing to be sure, if numbers are good, then companies are incentivized to tell them as openly as possible, so MSFT playing coy with their numbers on gaming isn't a very good look imo.

I've honestly considered the possibility of them folding up the console business, and while it's got a non-zero chance (and can even feel likely at times), I think it's also a very hard decision to make.

Canning a console business is a hard, hard decision, especially when things are digital, and consumers depend on your continued server availability to be able to use items they bought with their cold hard cash. Just look at the furore that happened when Sony wanted to sunset the PS3 store, a store that's now two gens old! Backcompat is great for customer retention, but it also makes this problem far greater too, because now you have to keep more games available for download, not to mention cloud saves etc.

It's also a very, very permanent decision. Like, theoretically, say that MSFT goes full 3rd party, and then later down the line decides to make a comeback (a luxury that doesn't exist for Sega or Neo Geo for example), it will be a very, very uphill task to convince customers to trust them again and rebuild ecosystems etc.

Now the weird thing is, a lot of those issues can be either mitigated or completely resolved because of Microsoft's current initiatives:
  • Allowing people to play Xbox exclusives day 1 on PCs creates an incentive to go there permanently instead of buying an Xbox (mainly due to additional game selection, emulation, productivity boosts etc), so less consumers to disappoint.
  • Gamepass is an excellent value, and it's increasingly incentivizing people to stop buying games on Xbox and wait for them to land on the service, which means that their ownership growth on the platform is actually slowing! Again, customers would be far less disappointed if you shuttered a service where they bought less games than when you let them buy more.
  • Play anywhere means that even existing gamepass subscribers can be "shepherded" onto other platforms that have gamepass under the same subscription accounts. Like if they manage to get Gamepass on Sony or Nintendo devices, then you can just have users keep up their subs and just use other manufacturer's consoles (PS5/6, Switch 2 etc). The ActiBlizz acquisition feels like a very big move in that direction to me.
TL;DR: Shuttering a console biz isn't easy, and a lot of the recent Microsoft moves can be either seen as them increasing their investment in Xbox or as ways to slowly pivot out of it into more of a services and software type of gaming business, it's too early to tell tbh.
 
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Godot25

Banned
1 billion from sub services per quarter? That's nice 4 billions per year
Not bad at all, considering they haven't released big first party game for 1,5 year.

But "muh, unsustainable"

Shame that consoles sales are directly tied to attractive first-party releases, so they are not that great. I guess we will have to wait until Starfield for console sales to pick up. Hope that Microsoft will get Series X production in order by September.

Next quarter will be the last with aprox. 3,5 billion in revenue since later they will have ActiBlizz revenue that will add 1,7+ billions in revenue per quarter.
 
MS the company is a juggernaut.
Does anyone ever foresee MS cutting Xbox loose? Like, what is the percentage of MS's total revenue attributable to Xbox? Is it a number small enough to contemplate dropping the brand altogether?
MS doesn't think of success and failure the way you and I do.

Much like Saudi Arabia, they get infinite spigots of money from their main money makers. Windows, Office, Azure. Since over 95% of the world is forced to use Windows and Office whether they like it or not, MS is guaranteed these revenue streams in perpetuity. So much like the Saudis and their oil money, MS doesn't care about money and money is not their primary goal nor measure of success.

Instead, MS measures success by which new markets they can enter and dominate. On a fundamental level, they are a monopolist. Their entire thinking is based on monopoly, not competition. They hate competition. Competition means fair play and that makes MS angry. They only like to crush competition, not play some kind of fair rules-based sport with them.

So MS enters markets they think they can crush all existing market competitors and control utterly. They will throw any and all resources at this market, until the moment they realize that they are unable to control and dominate. Then they will abruptly withdraw, regardless of previous time and money spent. The best example of this is mobile phones. Over a more than decade period, they threw unlimited money at mobile phones (including multiple acquisitions like Danger and Nokia's phone division) to try and push all competitors out. They were actually an early market entrant in the nascent smartphones business. Unfortunately for them, Apple invented the iPhone and revolutionized smartphones overnight. They were slow to react to Apple (Steve Ballmer famously laughed at the iPhone) and Google were much quicker to acquire Android. MS was slow, produced a series of poor quality products in the Windows Mobile and then Windows Phone llines, spent a ton of money, and got nowhere. The moment Satya Nadella took over as CEO, he put the Windows Phone division to the axe.

Nadella also wanted to axe Xbox, another of Bill Gates' and Ballmer's pet projects, but was convinced to stay his hand. Now it's nearly a decade into Nadella's reign as CEO and MS once again was slow, produced a series of poor quality products in Xbox One and Xbox Series S/X, and now they are at the final spending lots of money phase with this $70 billion acquisition of Activision Blizzard. Make no mistake about it, MS is once again near the end of their monopolist's playbook here. If they are unable to push back against Sony after they have finished this acquisition and denied Call of Duty to PS, it's probably going to be the end. Regardless of previous time in market and money spent, they will drop the guillotine on Xbox if their final gambit to destroy Sony fails. This is how MS works and how they think.
 

Godot25

Banned
Nadella also wanted to axe Xbox, another of Bill Gates' and Ballmer's pet projects, but was convinced to stay his hand.
That's not true. Shareholders wanted Nadella to axe Xbox.

All that talk about Microsoft ditching Xbox is just pure fantasy. People are calling it from 2014 and it's still not happening. Somehow. They build a 1 billion subscription business with potential to grow it even more. But I guess you know more about viability of Xbox business then Microsoft.

Not the mention that Xbox business is for Microsoft just one part of their gaming initiatives. Xbox business is somehow tied to their Azure, especially if devs will start to offload more and more game calculations in to the cloud (like Ubisoft Scalar) that effectively can run on Azure and can bring Microsoft billions of dollars of revenue. Whole Game Stack is based on tools that devs use during development and are paying Microsoft money for it's use. And while there is a possibility that all of those initiatives can continue without Xbox, I have no doubt in my mind, that it is better for Microsoft to have Xbox to push those initiatives.

Thinking that Microsoft will somehow abandon their gaming stuff after buying company that generates 2 billions of profits per year just because "we can't beat Sony and have monopoly" is just pure lunacy.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Not going to lie, their console sales should not be down this early in the gen. 30% is pretty bad. On the other hand, this is their 2nd best Q3 gaming revenue ever, even with that fall. Saying the numbers are "terrible" is more than a little hyperbolic

Overall, not terrible, no. Xbox Series sales plummeting is troubling though. I'm guessing the growth in PC Game Pass is driving that $1 billion in subscriptions. I wonder what makes up "subscriptions" besides Game Pass though. Perhaps, Xbox Live?
 

Woopah

Member
it was a natural evolution of several home console faliures. they lost that market
the facts triggered you that much boy? 😂

switch "hybrid" nature is exactly the fucking point. ONE console that absorbed the practically none existen home console numbers.
I think its safe to say Nintendo had a big chunk of today home console market with the Wii, lost it with the Wii U, and then regained a big chunk with Switch
Nintendo all but gave up on the mobile initiative, which was clearly a move to aplacate investors. Their last mobile game was Mario Kart Tour, which was released what, 2 or 3 years ago?And there are zero plans for further mobile games.

And only that game and FE Heroes are still getting support. And even then, a lot of the effort and work done on Tour is being redirected towards MK 8, which is clearly the current focus.

So no, Nintendo FOR NOW is 100% exclusive on consoles. Sony is clearly pushing hard into PC, and so consoles are not its exclusive focus anymore. That means they will ignore consoles? Of course not.They are being widly successful there. And until that remains true, they will keep making consoles. But having their games on PC, and so undermining the reason to get a PS console will have long time effects, not to memtion having to develop games for PCs too, and not necessarily around any kind of innovation that future consoles might bring.

Again, that's far into the future, if it ever happens.
Nintendo has reduced their focus on mobile, but not given up just yet. In 2021 they announced a new partnership deal with Niantic for AR mobile games, of which Pikmin Bloom is the first one.
Seems like a wildly premature response based on outdated thinking about what the Xbox business actually is. This is nowhere near as bad a report as some think unless people only focus on the hardware numbers.

It's their strongest non-holiday quarter ever for xbox content & services, which includes Game Pass. Game Pass' continued growth totally defied Microsoft's expectations in a positive way, leading to the exact opposite of the worst outcomes Microsoft predicted in their previous quarterly report. Content and Services went from an expected loss to revenue growth due to Game Pass. Xbox revenue overall didn't decline as much as expected.




They're about to add $7-$8 billion in revenue from Activision Blizzard plus be able to count Diablo IV, Redfall, Minecraft Legends, Starfield, Forza, COD 2023, Warzone and Warzone mobile, etc,. among their balance sheets this year at some stage in the next 2 quarters. I can't think of a more perfect storm from a gaming business standpoint, especially how the ABK closing will impact Game Pass growth. Anyone who looks at the full picture sees there's nothing alarming here besides their console supply situation.

From a pure business outlook, anybody can see that any premature claim of a doomed Xbox is suffering from a lack understanding that they're not getting the complete picture. That complete picture includes Activision Blizzard. Even without them it's clear to see that Xbox is in prime position. And thinking Redfall will do nothing appears a little too skeptical when it's quite obvious from those Game Pass content and services results that Hi-Fi Rush, Halo Infinite Season 3 and an Xbox Direct had a seemingly far bigger impact than many thought it would, to the point that it led to a record non holiday quarter for Xbox content and services and the Xbox revenue as a whole outperformed Microsoft's expectations from last quarter along with content and surprises which posted a gain when Microsoft expected a loss. Notice also Microsoft predicting they would have worse supply compared to the prior year in their forecast?

GTJCnx1.png




Totally not true, but what followed afterwards? Xbox has had 6 back to back record setting fiscal years for revenue since FY17Q4. Every Q4, you see what's happening? These are supposed to be the years Xbox is getting stomped by Playstation, but it's steadily doing better and better. Way better, in fact, than Xbox 360 ever did for them revenue wise. It's because many don't really factor in just how the business has actually changed since then and why the current Game Pass strategy for Microsoft is secretly paying dividends that most are missing.

Game Pass, in short, is Microsoft's first party games lineup turned into a subscription service and sold. And then it gets some support from 3rd parties here and there to further help with subs and retention. Xbox right now is seeing more yearly revenue from first-party thanks to Game Pass than at any other time in the entire history of the xbox console. Game Pass literally brought in $2.9 billion in revenue just on consoles in 2021. Nobody can point to a single year in the existence of Xbox such a thing has ever occurred, not even with the 360's 2007 that included Halo 3, Mass Effect and many other titles.

uTbHZ46.png



Game Pass has changed the entire calculation of what success means at Xbox. This was implemented under Phil's leadership. The first full fiscal year seeing it in action led to Satya putting Phil in the Senior Leadership Team at Microsoft in late 2019.

Mind share is night and day different thanks to Series X, Game Pass' popularity and its overall value. The overall offering to xbox fans and the future games pipeline is vastly superior to anything Xbox has ever seen. Microsoft has never had this many exciting looking games in development from a first-party standpoint, many of which will be exclusive. It can't be understated how many effectively free and high quality games people are seeing on Xbox thanks to Game Pass.

Sometimes I wonder if people have ever factored what Game Pass could look like by the end of this generation, and how many quality games from amazing studios will be in there. This isn't the same old Xbox of years past.

Another often overlooked element is that Microsoft absolutely nailed their VRR implementation on Series consoles in such a way that nearly every game experience is just flawless on the system, and the Series X VRR range is top tier. Many of what people see in DF comparisons framerate wise does not ever show for people with capable displays. There are rare cases where a game's optimization messes with the VRR window, but it is exceedingly rare and it's always fixed though not often covered by DF, which just makes sense because they can't cover everything.

So I really doubt you're being serious when you say the xbox platform is not in as strong a shape as it was back during the 2014 year with Xbox One. For people just enjoying all the games we've been gettting, especially through Game Pass and not taking the whole thing too serious, Xbox is mopping the floor with what Xbox was before. The lineup has never been more diverse and all we have to do is just wait for more amazing games to drop, and this year is setup to be an incredible year indeed.

Microsoft is on the verge on launching Bethesda's next big RPG IP exclusively on xbox consoles and day one on Game Pass. And they'll be able to count Diablo IV and the success of the next COD as part of the Xbox brand fairly soon and get all the financial and mind share benefit that comes with that, especially knowing that they're likely to add Diablo IV in Game Pass as soon as they possibly can. They'll have a hit with that on Steam as well as with COD 2023 and Starfield. I know Game Pass isn't free, but it's damn near effectively free for what we're getting, so the thought of everything MIcrosoft will own first-party this year, outside of Call of Duty, dropping into Game Pass is really something I don't think people have truly factored in yet.

The only big disagreement I have with this is that it's a console demand issue rather a console supply issue.
 
MS doesn't think of success and failure the way you and I do.

Much like Saudi Arabia, they get infinite spigots of money from their main money makers. Windows, Office, Azure. Since over 95% of the world is forced to use Windows and Office whether they like it or not, MS is guaranteed these revenue streams in perpetuity. So much like the Saudis and their oil money, MS doesn't care about money and money is not their primary goal nor measure of success.

Instead, MS measures success by which new markets they can enter and dominate. On a fundamental level, they are a monopolist. Their entire thinking is based on monopoly, not competition. They hate competition. Competition means fair play and that makes MS angry. They only like to crush competition, not play some kind of fair rules-based sport with them.

So MS enters markets they think they can crush all existing market competitors and control utterly. They will throw any and all resources at this market, until the moment they realize that they are unable to control and dominate. Then they will abruptly withdraw, regardless of previous time and money spent. The best example of this is mobile phones. Over a more than decade period, they threw unlimited money at mobile phones (including multiple acquisitions like Danger and Nokia's phone division) to try and push all competitors out. They were actually an early market entrant in the nascent smartphones business. Unfortunately for them, Apple invented the iPhone and revolutionized smartphones overnight. They were slow to react to Apple (Steve Ballmer famously laughed at the iPhone) and Google were much quicker to acquire Android. MS was slow, produced a series of poor quality products in the Windows Mobile and then Windows Phone llines, spent a ton of money, and got nowhere. The moment Satya Nadella took over as CEO, he put the Windows Phone division to the axe.

Nadella also wanted to axe Xbox, another of Bill Gates' and Ballmer's pet projects, but was convinced to stay his hand. Now it's nearly a decade into Nadella's reign as CEO and MS once again was slow, produced a series of poor quality products in Xbox One and Xbox Series S/X, and now they are at the final spending lots of money phase with this $70 billion acquisition of Activision Blizzard. Make no mistake about it, MS is once again near the end of their monopolist's playbook here. If they are unable to push back against Sony after they have finished this acquisition and denied Call of Duty to PS, it's probably going to be the end. Regardless of previous time in market and money spent, they will drop the guillotine on Xbox if their final gambit to destroy Sony fails. This is how MS works and how they think.
Well, well. What now, Microsoft? What now, motherfuckers?

What's the next page of the monopolist's playbook? I can't wait to find out!
 
Did we get new Game Pass subscribers number?

It has been almost 450 days since we last got any update from Microsoft.
The percentage increase seems to be in the single digits since that time. And as far as it looks no one buys an Xbox anymore so the increase is likely due to pc gamers and maybe some currently owning Xbox people that just entered Gamepass.

Doesn’t look good at all for ms, and blaming availability while the S system is widely available at all times just shows no one is enthusiastic enough about the gaming offers to take the slightly less good product.

Also, you can’t tell me they produced at least 30% less Xbox series X consoles than before because that’s what they're basically saying. So they don’t produce as many consoles as before because they know it won’t sell, or I can not even think of another reason why the reduction would be so drastic.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
The percentage increase seems to be in the single digits since that time. And as far as it looks no one buys an Xbox anymore so the increase is likely due to pc gamers and maybe some currently owning Xbox people that just entered Gamepass.

Doesn’t look good at all for ms, and blaming availability while the S system is widely available at all times just shows no one is enthusiastic enough about the gaming offers to take the slightly less good product.

Also, you can’t tell me they produced at least 30% less Xbox series X consoles than before because that’s what they're basically saying. So they don’t produce as many consoles as before because they know it won’t sell, or I can not even think of another reason why the reduction would be so drastic.
Exactly. There is no shortage anyway. Both consoles are widely and easily available. It is just that the demand isn't there anymore, now that it is year #3 and PlayStation 5 is easily available to gamers.
 

Smoke6

Member
I think when the next Elder Scrolls or Fallout comes out, i do think they're huge system sellers. COD may move lots of systems if it's bundled with the next xbox, or it being on gamepass appeals to people. And I think especially on PC, the Xbox store has lots of room to grow still. I feel like that's where they're going to gain the most ground, even if their console stuff doesn't pay off.

Edit: these games that xbox is making now will not make a difference for sure, but i'm talking about 3 or 4 years from now, after sony's deal with Activision is done, when Elder scrolls 6 is ready to come out, etc.
Elder scrolls is years away bro! Like 7-10! They’ve bbkugjt into companies that have long sec times on ther games and have to make smaller niche games to get by until then! You ain’t see most these games be true first party until next gen exclusively for Xbox! A lot could happen and with the ABK deal getting shut down, man…
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
We are at the Sega Saturn stage. Xbox would need to reach Dreamcast before they would walk away.

MS would never run out of money, but they could run out of interest.
Considering the loss they bear at every Xbox console unit, if they axe the HW and become a third-party publisher, Microsoft will actually increase their profitability right away.

Only a matter of time before they realize that they are not going to increase their market share and profitability and decide to act on it.
 

Nautilus

Banned
I think its safe to say Nintendo had a big chunk of today home console market with the Wii, lost it with the Wii U, and then regained a big chunk with Switch

Nintendo has reduced their focus on mobile, but not given up just yet. In 2021 they announced a new partnership deal with Niantic for AR mobile games, of which Pikmin Bloom is the first one.

The only big disagreement I have with this is that it's a console demand issue rather a console supply issue.
Oh yeah, completely forgot about Pikmin Bloom.

But like you said, they are severely reduced, the games are like super lite versions of the real games, and Nintendo focuses on experiences that consoles don't (yet) provide, like AR.
 

kuncol02

Banned
Lmao you really don’t pay attention do you? That’s your fault! You won’t see elder scrolls til next gen maybe
It's already in preproduction for some time. It will release in 2027 latest, unless there will be another pandemic/war that will fuck up whole economy.
 
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