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MS engineers are looking at optimising windows for Steam Deck

GHG

Gold Member
This will be more of a big deal for the other PC handhelds (like the recently announced Asus model) than it will be for the Steam deck.

DF recently discussed the ridiculous windows overhead in one of their recent weekly videos. The fact that Valve have decided to run a customised version of Linux has meant a lot for the performance of the steam deck, and more importantly, the battery life.
 

winjer

Gold Member
Didnt they make a "smol" version of Windows already?

From Microsoft, the closest would be Windows LTSC.
This is a Windows version for Enterprises. It doesn't have bloatware, has reduce spyware and no Windows Store.
It also only uses the most stable updates. So it only receives major feature updates one or two years later.

The problem is that it requires an Volume License, so it's not supposed to be used by normal consumers. Although there are sites that sell keys for it.
 

reksveks

Member
Hope it does turn into something of a competitor for HaloOS, Windows 11 handheld PC's do need to get better or switch to HaloOS.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
It's a hackathon project. Nothing commercial.

MS need to concentrate on making their games run better natively on the steamOS instead of trying to shoehorn windows on it. It has a lean purpose built OS already.
A baby Windows version can also be used by all the other Handheld PCs that dont use SteamOS.

P.S I dont actually understand why the other Handheld PCs dont use SteamOS.....its free and really light weight, and will likely bring down their overall costs cuz the Windows license is likely adding to their costs.
 
MS should constantly be looking to optimise their OS for everything?
Any netbook, Q9200 whatever user might get a bit of extra performance of his "ancient" device and just because 64 cores + 128 perf cores force a system to run fast doesn't mean better more efficient code would not benefit them too.
Just because Valve made a point in supporting Linux, which finally makes Linux somewhat eligible for any PC, and that might make look Windows worse and with time even reduce market share, the 99% of non Linux users would appreciate MS looking for any fat too.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
It's a hackathon project. Nothing commercial.

MS need to concentrate on making their games run better natively on the steamOS instead of trying to shoehorn windows on it. It has a lean purpose built OS already.
True, but some features are still Windows only, like the RT acceleration… oh well Proton will support it with Vulcan soon enough ;).
 

chromhound

Member
Hmmm. Like Sony?
tHmholQ.jpg
 
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mhirano

Member
A baby Windows version can also be used by all the other Handheld PCs that dont use SteamOS.

P.S I dont actually understand why the other Handheld PCs dont use SteamOS.....its free and really light weight, and will likely bring down their overall costs cuz the Windows license is likely adding to their costs.
Because SteamOS is still unavailable, is custom made for the Deck and also has no vendor support, so the "free" can be very expensive for a small company.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Man, the Linux zealots on the Steamdeck subreddit aren’t going to like this.

Absolute clowns, the lot of them.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
It's a hackathon project. Nothing commercial.

MS need to concentrate on making their games run better natively on the steamOS instead of trying to shoehorn windows on it. It has a lean purpose built OS already.

It’s a PC. Optimizing their OS for a handheld PC is absolutely something they should be doing. What a strange thing for you to say. Absolutely important for the windows UX, battery life and performance to be the best it can be.

Their games don’t run any worse than any on Proton, anyway.

The fact that Valve have decided to run a customised version of Linux has meant a lot for the performance of the steam deck, and more importantly, the battery life.

There’s no meaningful performance and battery life delta on the Deck between Windows and SteamOS. Games run just as well…even with Valve’s slow driver support.
 

feynoob

Banned
It's a hackathon project. Nothing commercial.

MS need to concentrate on making their games run better natively on the steamOS instead of trying to shoehorn windows on it. It has a lean purpose built OS already.
Why optimize your games, when Windows does better for you.

They already have their games optimized for steam windows. No need for Linux or other stuff.

This windows project might become a better option than the Linux mode.
 

Three

Member
It’s a PC. Optimizing their OS for a handheld PC is absolutely something they should be doing. What a strange thing for you to say. Absolutely important for the windows UX, battery life and performance to be the best it can be.
Optimising for a 'handheld PC' is different to optimising for a handheld gaming device without their OS features. The latter is something they are not doing despite you thinking it absolutely is something they should be doing. This is a personal hackathon project for somebody, it isn't a commercial goal at MS. I don't think it will be any time soon either. Optimising a general PC/laptop OS is and always has been though, that's different.

There is nothing strange about saying instead of reinventing the wheel it's best for us that their game developers support the lean open OS that has already been purpose built for the device instead of trying to shoehorn something that wasn't built for it just so they can sell it to the limited amount of OEMs that I doubt they're commercially even interested in.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Can't they just port Gamepass into Steam? They don't need to bother fucking around with Windows on the device because no one in their right might will bother installing it on the device to begin with.
everything on the xbox store and gamepass is UWP so the chances of them getting on linux are slim as shit. UWP is an accursed thing
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
What microsoft could do instead is to make a handheld surface gaming device powered by a stronger chip than what the Steam Deck uses and subsidize the hell out of it... yk, COMPETE
 
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feynoob

Banned
Optimising for a 'handheld PC' is different to optimising for a handheld gaming device without their OS features. The latter is something they are not doing despite you thinking it absolutely is something they should be doing. This is a personal hackathon project for somebody, it isn't a commercial goal at MS. I don't think it will be any time soon either. Optimising a general PC/laptop OS is and always has been though, that's different.

There is nothing strange about saying instead of reinventing the wheel it's best for us that their game developers support the lean open OS that has already been purpose built for the device instead of trying to shoehorn something that wasn't built for it just so they can sell it to the limited amount of OEMs that I doubt they're commercially even interested in.
Very short sighted.

This project will allow them to license windows for handheld devices, instead of losing those sales to Linux.

It's MS interest that they focus on this option.
 

kingyala

Banned

Ozriel

M$FT
Optimising for a 'handheld PC' is different to optimising for a handheld gaming device without their OS features. The latter is something they are not doing despite you thinking it absolutely is something they should be doing. This is a personal hackathon project for somebody, it isn't a commercial goal at MS. I don't think it will be any time soon either. Optimising a general PC/laptop OS is and always has been though, that's different.

There is nothing strange about saying instead of reinventing the wheel it's best for us that their game developers support the lean open OS that has already been purpose built for the device instead of trying to shoehorn something that wasn't built for it just so they can sell it to the limited amount of OEMs that I doubt they're commercially even interested in.


Your mistake in thinking this is unlikely to become a more serious effort within MS. The SteamDeck is popularizing a class of handheld PCs that are optimized for gaming, but fully dockable.

Most Microsoft games already run well on Steamdeck, with only a few exceptions. The console was sent out for reviews with Forza Horizon 5. Grounded, Pentiment etc work flawlessly. HiFi Rush runs at a flawless 60fps with no hiccups, and was promoted with the Deck on Valve’s homepage.

It makes no iota of sense for you to take up this position since the majority of handheld gaming PCs in the near to mid future will likely be running Windows. An optimized Windows environment for this class is something we should all want. Not to mention native Gamepass support.

None of that takes anything away from SteamOS.
 
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Three

Member
Very short sighted.

This project will allow them to license windows for handheld devices, instead of losing those sales to Linux.

It's MS interest that they focus on this option.
It's common sense, not short sightedness.

MS are not focusing on this option because it is not a big market and there is no good business plan with it. If they have no commercial interest in licensing an OS for phones right now what makes people think they would start doing a commercial OS specifically for handheld gaming devices with such a tiny market?

If they have no interest in the VR markets and people are cheering it as a good business decision what makes people think selling an OS to an even smaller handful of portable gaming OEMs who happen to have free alternatives is good foresight?

There is nothing commercially viable about it currently. Steamdeck, one of the most popular PC handheld gaming devices is itself a small market and has a pre-installed OS already. only a fraction of those would seek out an alternative OS to begin with. That OS release would gain very little traction and would die faster than windows phone as a business, even if they tried to push a store with it.

It's far better to support your games/apps/xcloud/gamepass on what is there or maybe even release your own handheld with a walled garden than trying to create another OS business that wouldn't really get off the ground. They're more likely to just stick to supporting tablet mode in the current windows release than doing a separate windows version to sell to OEMs.
 

Three

Member
It makes no iota of sense for you to take up this position since the majority of handheld gaming PCs in the near to mid future will likely be running Windows.
What position have I taken, that it isn't something MS are doing is a position MS are currently in and I see them being in for the foreseeable future.

Based on what do you assume the majority of handheld gaming PCs would be running windows? Do we have any comparisons of the amount of handheld gaming devices in the wild and the OS they run? I'd imagine most of the small market of handheld PC gaming devices are running steamOS at the moment.
An optimized Windows environment for this class is something we should all want. Not to mention native Gamepass support.

None of that takes anything away from SteamOS.
I'd prefer native game and gamepass support on steamOS. That might even mean gamepass support on linux and mac, how good would that be right? What a strange position to take, I know.

A handheld gaming Windows OS version might be good competition too. Doesn’t mean it's something I should be interested in though, consider better, or that it's commercially happening.
 

feynoob

Banned
It's common sense, not short sightedness.

MS are not focusing on this option because it is not a big market and there is no good business plan with it. If they have no commercial interest in licensing an OS for phones right now what makes people think they would start doing a commercial OS specifically for handheld gaming devices with such a tiny market?

If they have no interest in the VR markets and people are cheering it as a good business decision what makes people think selling an OS to an even smaller handful of portable gaming OEMs who happen to have free alternatives is good foresight?

There is nothing commercially viable about it currently. Steamdeck, one of the most popular PC handheld gaming devices is itself a small market and has a pre-installed OS already. only a fraction of those would seek out an alternative OS to begin with. That OS release would gain very little traction and would die faster than windows phone as a business, even if they tried to push a store with it.

It's far better to support your games/apps/xcloud/gamepass on what is there or maybe even release your own handheld with a walled garden than trying to create another OS business that wouldn't really get off the ground. They're more likely to just stick to supporting tablet mode in the current windows release than doing a separate windows version to sell to OEMs.
It's shortsighted, because there is a business opportunity here.

Handheld devices are like cloud gaming. Even that market is niche, yet MS is investing massive money, because they see potential of this market.

And the reason why it's shortsighted, because there is gamepass in the equation. Optimizing windows for handheld devices means more exposure for gamepass, without having to make a handheld device. That is a reason for MS to invest in the project.


As for the phone OS, it's not that easy. They tried with windows phone, and failed badly.
 

feynoob

Banned
FANBOYS. Fanboys are cheering it as a good business decision out of jealousy over PSVR2. The Oculus Quest 2 is currently selling on par with both models of the series X.
You could have stopped at the first sentence. No need to be a fanboy like them.
Why compare VR sales to a console sale?
 

Three

Member
It's shortsighted, because there is a business opportunity here.

Handheld devices are like cloud gaming. Even that market is niche, yet MS is investing massive money, because they see potential of this market.
Seeing the potential market for cloud gaming is the exact opposite of the business you're suggesting of selling an OS version to OEMs. The business opportunity there is selling the content on anything and everything. On as many platforms and OS as possible.

By your logic they shouldn't do cloud gaming because they would be losing windows sales to other OS like Android, iOS, macOS, linux, etc. When I suggest that they should concentrate on getting their content (games, gamepass) on whats already there for steamdeck instead of concentrating on the OS this is what I mean. For them to concentrate on content support.
And the reason why it's shortsighted, because there is gamepass in the equation. Optimizing windows for handheld devices means more exposure for gamepass, without having to make a handheld device. That is a reason for MS to invest in the project.
Or they could have gamepass support on unix and open standards meaning linux, mac, and steamdeck exposure for gamepass. The only reason they would do it is to prop the actual OS business otherwise there are far better ways to get more gamepass customers.
As for the phone OS, it's not that easy. They tried with windows phone, and failed badly.
Exactly and it would be even harder maintaining a separate OS for a small handfull of handheld devices where you're not even pushing a store.
 
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64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
You could have stopped at the first sentence. No need to be a fanboy like them.
Why compare VR sales to a console sale?
the second sentence was meant to point out the irony in the idea that the VR market is small when a VR headset that debuted in 2020 is somehow selling about as much as a 20 year old console brand. It isn't fanboyism because i'd rather kill myself then fanboy for the Zuck.
 
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reksveks

Member
It seems like we acting like it's binary choices or zero sum game here. P.s. I would prefer them to make the MS Store and the required Gaming Services work on Linux or HaloOS but I don't think this news is indicative of anything much.
 
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