• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

MS engineers are looking at optimising windows for Steam Deck

Topher

Gold Member
I get all that, without googles "20% project" gmail wouldn't exist too. It's why they do it. But for every big product born from these, 30 are just projects that don't turn into anything.

The people involved in this particular project are listed under the project video. It isn't a big team but an individual it appears but that's not why I think it isn't a commercially viable project. I feel MS do not see an OS business here, they are more likely to make their own handheld than they are creating a handheld console OS business. Even for all those who game on PC on their TVs there isn't really a console OS product from MS. They're more likely to just use the already available tablet mode.

I just fail to see the commercial viability of this hackathon project.

SteamOS is already upon the world and so is proton. That cat is out of the bag

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/SteamOS
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton

It had even failed as Steambox years ago. The reason Steamdeck is popular is because it's steam and valve so unless they can convince them to pay for a licence I don't think it will go anywhere. If they see a threat their more likely to launch an xbox handheld than to license a console OS.

That's the old Steam OS. I'm talking about the one that ships with Steam Deck and has all the handheld functionality built-in. The closest thing to that is this unofficial project:

 

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
This will be more of a big deal for the other PC handhelds (like the recently announced Asus model) than it will be for the Steam deck.

DF recently discussed the ridiculous windows overhead in one of their recent weekly videos. The fact that Valve have decided to run a customised version of Linux has meant a lot for the performance of the steam deck, and more importantly, the battery life.
No shit look at how apple is fucking over the laptop market with their chips
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: GHG

Corndog

Banned
It's a hackathon project. Nothing commercial.

MS need to concentrate on making their games run better natively on the steamOS instead of trying to shoehorn windows on it. It has a lean purpose built OS already.
So it’s bad to try to improve windows on it?
 

GHG

Gold Member
So it’s bad to try to improve windows on it?

It doesn't ship with windows nor does it come with a windows license. No matter what they do it will only ever be a small percentage of steam deck users who will bother to install/dual boot it and source a key.
 

Corndog

Banned
It doesn't ship with windows nor does it come with a windows license. No matter what they do it will only ever be a small percentage of steam deck users who will bother to install/dual boot it and source a key.
maybe that could change.
 

GHG

Gold Member
maybe that could change.

Would mean the cost of the device would have to go up, either to us to to valve.

Can't see them doing it when so much of what they've been focused on in the last 5 or 6 years has been on reducing their reliance on Windows/Microsoft to better shield their business. The Steam deck is a big step towards that goal since it serves as proof of concept, and for the first time it gives them a hardware controlled dataset across millions of users that enables them to see what works and what doesn't. Their investment in and development of Linux will only accelerate from here.
 

Crayon

Member
But the truth is that only thing that would really make Linux viable is if it's community/developers stop being so fucking weird elitists and start to think as Linux as an end user operational system.

idk what you are talking about but maybe you can elaborate. The real reason is...

It doesn't ship with windows nor does it come with a windows license. No matter what they do it will only ever be a small percentage of steam deck users who will bother to install/dual boot it and source a key.

^^^ people just use what comes on their computer for the most part.
 

Corndog

Banned
Would mean the cost of the device would have to go up, either to us to to valve.

Can't see them doing it when so much of what they've been focused on in the last 5 or 6 years has been on reducing their reliance on Windows/Microsoft to better shield their business. The Steam deck is a big step towards that goal since it serves as proof of concept, and for the first time it gives them a hardware controlled dataset across millions of users that enables them to see what works and what doesn't. Their investment in and development of Linux will only accelerate from here.
Not if ms offered it for free.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
The people involved in this particular project are listed under the project video. It isn't a big team but an individual it appears but that's not why I think it isn't a commercially viable project. I feel MS do not see an OS business here, they are more likely to make their own handheld than they are creating a handheld console OS business. Even for all those who game on PC on their TVs there isn't really a console OS product from MS. OEMs are more likely to just use the already available tablet mode.

I think there's still something to be said for MS eventually needing Windows Store to be more viable for gamers, and eventually they want PC Gamepass to be a lot bigger than it is. Steam Deck isn't lighting the world on fire with sales or anything since Valve just isn't a company that produces 10's of millions of units of anything, but it's still a few million people they know are into gaming, and there's a lot of other hardware manufacturers out there trying to sell their own couple million devices.

Them adding a "Controller Mode" that's an extension of their "Tablet Mode" isn't particularly far fetched to me.

Also Valve hasn't actually released Steam OS 3.0 yet, the version running on the Steam Deck.
 

Three

Member
I think there's still something to be said for MS eventually needing Windows Store to be more viable for gamers, and eventually they want PC Gamepass to be a lot bigger than it is. Steam Deck isn't lighting the world on fire with sales or anything since Valve just isn't a company that produces 10's of millions of units of anything, but it's still a few million people they know are into gaming, and there's a lot of other hardware manufacturers out there trying to sell their own couple million devices.
Neither are any of the other OEMs selling handheld PCs I would say. Steamdeck is probably the top seller. They are likely to be in much lower numbers than 1M. The reason given in the hackathon is that the steamdeck itself has resulted in a surge in the handheld PC market and the hackathon concentrated a lot on windows support on steamdeck itself.


Them adding a "Controller Mode" that's an extension of their "Tablet Mode" isn't particularly far fetched to me.

Also Valve hasn't actually released Steam OS 3.0 yet, the version running on the Steam Deck.
it's not just a controller mode. They want to control the entire UX and hardware/driver support (GDP win has a slide out keyboard for example, others might not have touchscreens etc). How do you ensure a good UX?

they want a good consistent UX, if they want to compete with steamdeck, they would also want to control price and the store. At that point they're more likely to launch an actual xbox handheld than they are an OS business for the low selling handhelds. I just don't see the latter happening.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
it's not just a controller mode. They want to control the entire UX and hardware/driver support (GDP win has a slide out keyboard for example, others might not have touchscreens etc). How do you ensure a good UX?
Sure I meant "handheld mode" like they call it in the video. But a good portion of this is getting things working well with a controller. I'm really not sure what else you are getting at here, they have a small list of things that would be required to make this work well. Why would it have any trouble with a keyboard existing? Why would it have any trouble with a touchscreen or without a touchscreen?

And for the most part OEM's would release drivers gladly for these kinds of devices. And it wasn't difficult for them to get Steamdeck itself up and running w/ drivers.

And a major point is that doing this would enable the non-Valve companies to potentially sell more devices. It's certainly true that this is being talked about as an emerging market that Windows could potentially capture.

This is a tiny, miniscule project compared to launching their own gaming handheld.. which would be extremely expensive, and separate from an effort to just make Windows work better on handhelds. There's zero reason they couldn't or wouldn't do this alongside a handheld XBox device. Just like MS has been trying to make gaming better on Windows for years, despite also selling Xbox hardware.
 

Three

Member
Sure I meant "handheld mode" like they call it in the video. But a good portion of this is getting things working well with a controller. I'm really not sure what else you are getting at here, they have a small list of things that would be required to make this work well.

I think we are talking about the same thing here. I think they are more likely to do the small things to get regular windows support (tablet mode specifically) working nicely than to release a windows version specifically for PC handhelds. One that boots to a different UI and has lower RAM requirements, etc. That to me is what's unlikely.
Why would it have any trouble with a keyboard existing? Why would it have any trouble with a touchscreen or without a touchscreen?
It wouldn't have any trouble. I'm saying the windows devices have different configurations so for example the GDP win wouldn't even need this hackathons UX keyboard improvement built for the steamdeck touchscreen. Others wouldn't have a touchscreen at all and have built in required controller input. These things are already there as third party software on top for these devices. MS I think are more likely to release a device with a unified UX than to build something that works for every device differently.
And for the most part OEM's would release drivers gladly for these kinds of devices. And it wasn't difficult for them to get Steamdeck itself up and running w/ drivers.
They already do but I mean for standardised game support and UX it's more beneficial with your own device.
And a major point is that doing this would enable the non-Valve companies to potentially sell more devices. It's certainly true that this is being talked about as an emerging market that Windows could potentially capture.
This I doubt. I can envisage MS maybe seeing steamdeck itself as a threat to windows gaming in future but the market is way too small and wouldn't grow with an OS release now.
This is a tiny, miniscule project compared to launching their own gaming handheld.. which would be extremely expensive, and separate from an effort to just make Windows work better on handhelds. There's zero reason they couldn't or wouldn't do this alongside a handheld XBox device.
I think it would be a bigger project to have a competitive handheld OS than to launch an xbox device with an OEM partner. Maintenance and support would be far less work, you end up with a better product and standardised UX and specs for software. Making the OS work better I can see but I don't see an OS being competitive with the already small steamdeck market. License cost, no specific store to have a competitively priced device, bloated OS that isn’t purpose built requiring more RAM or lowered performance.
Just like MS has been trying to make gaming better on Windows for years, despite also selling Xbox hardware.
I think thats why they're more likely to not do this special OS and release hardware if this was a big emerging market. If they wanted a custom built OS purpose built for gaming and controller they would have done it for PC 'consoles' from different OEMs already. That market is bigger already yet you don't see this purpose built gaming OS.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom