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[Ghost of Caelid]

So I'm a soulsborne vet...I beat every soulsborne game and dark souls 3 and bloodborne a plethora of times...but I'm playing the DLCs for the first time. This isnt a "make the game easier" post, but a post discussing the design philosophy of multiphase bosses. Now Sister Friede is considered one of the tougher bosses in the soulsborne franchises and I was excited to play her...but shes not hard because her move set...shes hard because she has 3 god damn phases and by the time you get to phase three you are low on items more than anything....this is why I hate multiphased bosses who have multiple health bars. If its like Pontiff Sulivan who switches up mid battle thats cool, but when they die and revive a whole new health bar it just feels cheap. Lothric princes have this problem too. Now back to the grind...I got to the third phase on my 10th attempt but yea...multiple phased bosses are annoying.

 

[Topher]

git gud

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

git gud

 

[pqueue]

The 3 rounds of effort to defeat a boss bullshit needs to go away

Make the fight good and interesting (and long if you have to) and have it end in a single round.

 

[Ebidramon]

I don't know, I love "this isn't even my final form" boss fights.

It makes them more memorable.

In MGS3, the whole section with Volgin and Shagohod is poetry.

 

[Topher]

Did you want a challenge or not?

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

I don't know, I love "this isn't even my final form" boss fights.

It makes them more memorable.

In MGS3, the whole section with Volgin and Shagohod is poetry.

Best one is Ludwig to me...but three phases is a bit excessive...two is pushing it but still I prefer one solid phase where they transform mid battle even if they enter an invincibility mode too.

 

[Alexios]

This isnt a "make the game easier" post
[...]
shes not hard because her move set...shes hard because she has 3 god damn phases and by the time you get to phase three you are low on items more than anything...

Guess what, this is asking to make the game easier by calling how it is cheap, lol. If it's not hard like you say, then play better so you use less items per phase...

 

[Danjin44]

I personally enjoy multi phase bosses, to me they are not cheap. I get players get frustrated in hard games but I’m sick of this “cheap” argument.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Did you want a challenge or not?

There are challenges outside of a new health bar imo. Again, I beat these game outside of the dlc multiple times...the only bosses I dislike kinda are the one with multiple health bars.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Guess what, this is asking to make the game easier by calling how it is cheap, lol. If it's not hard like you say, then play better so you use less items per phase...

I never said change the game...I cant express soemthing I don't really like without wanting them to change it? Never once said they should change it cause I dislike it....98% of the time their design philosophy I love so I'll take one thing I don't if it means they continue to make some of my favorite games ever.

 

[laynelane]

I figure she's the same as any other Souls boss - memorize the moveset, figure out when it's safe to attack, when to dodge, adjust your equipment if necessary, etc. It just takes longer in her case because of the three health bars and her damage output. I found the struggle to beat her frustrating at times, but was really happy when I accomplished it. So, I guess I'll go with fair. Good luck with it.

 

[TintoConCasera]

I love when bosses have multiple phases, it's like getting another boss fight for free.

 

[Beelzebubs]

I mean they're not exactly a new concept... They've been pretty common since the NES days...

 

[ANDS]

If you're not deleting your save file after dying once, then you've got no business telling someone to "git gud." I mean that's the ultimate challenge. . .right.

 

[Futaleufu]

The worse one I've played lately is the final boss in Strikey Sisters, it doesn't help that the game relies on randomness for power ups

 

[Knightime_X]

They're fair until they become cheap.
Otherwise, they're awesome.

 

[ReBurn]

It's not the extra life bar I find cheap. Usually it's when they make the boss power cheesy instead of challenging that it's cheap. Bosses that cheat make me drop a game instantly.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

They have a place a purpose. The problem is when everyone abuses it as if every final boss needs to follow the same framework. The lack of critical thinking is astounding.

 

[Plantoid]

I agree sister fried third phase is too much, I'm not against 2 phases but 3....

 

[Duchess]

As a general tip for when getting stuck in games like this - try going onto YouTube and watching a no hit run against said boss.

I struggled against the boss rush at the end of Shovel Knight, but watching how someone did it without taking damage, I was able to see how I needed to react to each one. I don't consider that cheating, as it still requires the skill to pull off.

 

[Skifi28]

It's a great mechanic to change things up, otherwise fights can get boring. I like it in monster hunter too, where monsters enrage and change their speed /moveset.

 

[Bartski]

nah, they're fine.

 

[Black_Stride]

*Stares at Returnal.

Yeah give me dem multi-phase bosses.
Im actually interested in seeing what the boss is going to do next.

P.S
Is there no indication that the boss is going to be multiphase?
Returnal you can see that the boss has multiple healthbars and you know when one is done they will alter their attack patterns.

 

[YukiOnna]

I love multi-phase boss fights. The idea of them changing and coming closer to their strongest form due to you overcoming each challenge is the best.

But I am someone who cares more about the experience than whether it mechanically makes sense or not. It's anime as fuck and I need it.

 

[Graciaus]

In a good game the fights are balanced with other phases in mind.

Since you named the Princes I'm guessing it's your strategy/skill. You can easily beat the first phase without being hit if you learn their predictable attack pattern.

 

[Lanrutcon]

*shrug*

Sure? But not the way most games implement it with the multiple hp bars, invulnerability for transitions, cutscenes where your character just stands around...

And yeah: Friede is one of those spots where you raise your eyebrow at the game and know that inspiration wasn't on deck the day that fight was developed. Lazy as all hell, but it does mean that all cheese becomes fair game. That's part of the fun: finding that cheese strat to turn these encounters into jokes and then laughing every time calls the game hard.

 

[Black_Stride]

I love multi-phase boss fights. The idea of them changing and coming closer to their strongest form due to you overcoming each challenge is the best.

But I am someone who cares more about the experience than whether it mechanically makes sense or not. It's anime as fuck and I need it.

Its not even my final form is fine.
Why waste energy in your final strongest form when you believe you can easy deck this cat.....ohh shit hes stronger than you thought?
Time to spend more energy.
Fuck hes still going
My strongest form is sure to completely finish him off.

 

[NeverYouMind]

I love multi-phase boss fights as long as they don't pull a resurrection or one shot me. Freide did both... I miss Gower's Ring and Turtle Shell armor from Dark Souls II.

 

[ZywyPL]

Phases or health bars? Because there can be different phases withing just a single HP bar, which IMO is the right way because the fight doesn't get boring after a while once you saw all 3-4 moves the boss can do at the time, but if we're talking about 2-3 different phases with the HP bar resetting every time then yeah, I find it as nothing but a lazy/cheap effort form the devs to artifically make the fight harder.

 

[Spukc]

fun for the first time only.
then annoying as fuck

 

[Lupin3]

I don't like it. I like my bosses how I like my breakfast: fair, simple and no bullshit. Sure, they can transform or whatever, but don't change the rules. They can be memorable without being a total pain in the ass. Give me obvious weak points and HP. Ain't got the patience for trial and error bosses no more.

 

[Beer Baelly]

I hated it 30 years ago when I beat Mega Man and Castlevania as a kid.

 

[Truth Be Told]

Keep cool, learn from your mistakes and keep your chin up

The sweet taste of victory will be even better when you defeat her

 

[Wunray]

Gonna have to say 2 phases seems like the sweet spot for me and 3 is stretching it a bit.

 

[Wildebeest]

I don't really enjoy the increased challenge level in any dark souls dlc. Diminishing returns for me.

 

[Miles708]

Gonna have to say 2 phases seems like the sweet spot for me and 3 is stretching it a bit.

Came to post this.
As soon as phase 3 shows up, i just want to turn off the thing.

 

[Y0ssarian]

I found Darkeater Midir harder than Sister Friede or Demon Prince(s) and Midir was only 1 phase

 

[winjer]

I'm not a fan of boss battles in games.
So when a boss has several phases, it becomes annoying to play.

 

[TonyK]

That's exactly the reason I hate Sekiro bosses and I ditched the game in the final boss, because he has 4!! phases.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Eh, it’s fine when used in moderation, but in DS3 they went all in with multi-phase bosses and totally blew the effect, likewise in DS2 they went overboard with gangbang-style boss fights and rooms. I agree that after 2 and 3, DS1 seems too easy and predictable in comparison, but jeez, some balance would be appreciated. The beauty of DS1 was to be found in more than just the combat and the bosses.

It’s one of the reasons I didn’t bother with DLC with DS2 and 3. I know stuff like Gael and Friede would break me, the base game in DS3 was already more than enough for me.

 

[j0hnnix]

I see it as an opportunity to kill her three times and laugh at her everytime she gets back up.

I use to feel it as unfair or cheap but eventually got use to it and found the appeal to multi phase battles.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Usually cheap and a way to extend the fight because most bosses have predictable move sets and patterns. Instead of making the AI really good and unpredictable, it's probably easier just to make another phase with equally bad AI. So instead of having one good lengthy fight, you get 2 or 3 short shittier fights.

Although I must admit, I enjoyed Axelay's multi phase final boss fight. And watching the Hades fights in GOW3 is amazing.

 

[Chickenwing10]

Like most things, it depends how it's done.

 

[Braag]

3 phases is usually pushing it for me. The 3 phase bosses in DS3 and Sekiro were definitely my least favorite as I felt usually so frustrated after beating the boss that I felt like going through the screen to kick their dead body for being so cheap.

 

[RoboFu]

They usually the most fair and thought out.

Except when they throw in a brute chieftain who can beat Olympic sprinters.

 

[ChoosableOne]

Sekiro says hello.

 

[Portugeezer]

They're annoying the first time when you use a shit load of items and abilities to finish them off, then you realise oh shit you should have saved some stuff!

 

[NeverYouMind]

Eh, it’s fine when used in moderation, but in DS3 they went all in with multi-phase bosses and totally blew the effect, likewise in DS2 they went overboard with gangbang-style boss fights and rooms. I agree that after 2 and 3, DS1 seems too easy and predictable in comparison, but jeez, some balance would be appreciated. The beauty of DS1 was to be found in more than just the combat and the bosses.

This seems like a strange critique given the existence of phases in Bed of Chaos fight, phases in Orstein and Smaugh fight, aggressive canines in Capra Demon fight, aggressive skeletons in Gravelord Nito fight, and continuously spawning phantoms in The Four Kings fight. Not to mention the invincible boss Seath the Scaleless in the first encounter, who must kill the player to allow progress in Duke's Archives. Forgive me if I find your statement to be a bit hypocritical.

 

[Banjo64]

I don't know, I love "this isn't even my final form" boss fights.

It makes them more memorable.

In MGS3, the whole section with Volgin and Shagohod is poetry.

Best IMO is Ganon in OOT. That was a real mind fucking blown moment for me as a kid.