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[ThirdEye]

How does that article in any way contradict what he said? Unless you didn't understand the article correctly, which seems to be the case.

The point is the only Blu-ray player available in Japan is PS3 except for these recorders, which you didn't know apparently.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

How does that article in any way contradict what he said?

 

[Haunted]

Or Pachter.

alt account unveiled!



I actually like Pachter, though. :/

 

[jman2050]

The point is the only Blu-ray player available in Japan is PS3 except for these recorders, which you didn't know apparently.

Why would the Blu-Ray recorders' performance compared to disc recorders as a whole be relevant when talking about Blu-Ray penetration in the country, especially regarding the purchase of Blu-Ray movies themselves? Unless every DVD player in the country is also a recorder, which I highly doubt.

Well done :lol

 

[TomServo]

MikeB is not Pachter, and he is willing to post pictures of himself, his underage sister, and girlfriend to prove it.

Wow.

My apologies to Pachter.

 

[MikeB]

Wow.

I'm not Pachter. I said I am older than the bulk of kids around here, however Pachter is probably older than you and me combined.

 

[TomServo]

That's old.

 

[Drinky Crow]

this is quite possibly the stupidest and most ill-informed thread on gaf in recent memory

mods, please lock and delete this thread

 

[XiaNaphryz]

this is quite possibly the stupidest and most ill-informed thread on gaf in recent memory

mods, please lock and delete this thread

When Drinky calls you out, you know it's an absolute mess...

 

[MikeB]

No, their figures are slightly off with regard to North America and PAL regions (Japan data seems to be mostly based on Famitsu's data). It's a little more to the advantage of the PS3. For example NPD's figures for December were better for the PS3 vs 360, than their data. Just look it up and compare.

In any case 360 fanboys ridiculed the idea of a remote possibility that the PS3 would be able to outsell the 360, afterall Halo 3 woud be launched a week ahead of 2007's final quarter and so would trounce the competition.

2007 sales data from Sony and Microsoft are pretty clear:

Microsoft sold 4.3 million 360s worldwide in the last quarter of 2007, making it 7.3 million in total.
Sony sold 4.9 million PS3 worldwide in the last quarter of 2007, totalling 8.83 million for the year.

At the end of 2007 total PS3 sales were 10.49 million, at the end of March 12.85 million, meaning Sony sold roughly 2.36 million PS3s for Q1 2008.
At the end of 2007 total 360 sales were 17.7 million, at the end of March 19 million, meaning Microsoft sold roughly 1.3 million 360s for Q1 2008.

The PS3 outsold the 360 for christmas and the year 2007 overall. For Q1 2008, the PS3 outsold the 360 by more than 1 million units.

I really don't understand why people would want to shout "misinformation!". This information is based on official company data!

IMO that's really good for the PS3 as the entry pricing is far higher and its biggest confirmed games are yet to come, this while the 360's biggest games are already out.

 

[MikeB]

I added the following to the original post, I hope it helps to spark some more in depth discussion:

"Before any fanboy rantings please consider the following, then read the article to understand where the PS3 advantage comes from:

Sales data from Sony and Microsoft:

- Microsoft sold 4.3 million 360s worldwide in the last quarter of 2007, making it 7.3 million in total for the year.
- Sony sold 4.9 million PS3 worldwide in the last quarter of 2007, totalling 8.83 million for the year.
- At the end of 2007 total PS3 sales were 10.49 million, at the end of March 12.85 million, meaning Sony sold roughly 2.36 million PS3s for Q1 2008.
- At the end of 2007 total 360 sales were 17.7 million, at the end of March 19 million, meaning Microsoft sold roughly 1.3 million 360s for Q1 2008."

 

[BravoSuperStar]

You know MikeB you do post some good info, however there is no real discussion to be had with you. You like to play the numbers game, but every post you make ends up as just blatant trolling. I don't know how old you really are, but grow the fuck up and stop the childishness if you want your threads to be taken seriously. Or do you just need the attention?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

IMO that's really good for the PS3 as the entry pricing is far higher and its biggest confirmed games are yet to come, this while the 360's biggest games are already out.

See, this is where your arguments collapse under the weight of your own bias. You stray from this idea of hard data into making prognostications based on personal preference. Gears Of War 2 could end up selling just as much as Halo 3.

GTA 4 outsold Halo 3 and yet made nary a dent on Hardware Sales, which is what your data is supposedly primarily focused on. So the reason so many people don't take this seriously is because you start with regular numbers that everyone can agree on then start talking about the subjective, that the PS3 still has its biggest guns in its holster, denying the possibility that a Gears Of War 2 or a Fable 2 or even a properly marketed Banjo Kazooie game could end up selling just as much as a Metal Gear Solid 4.

But what also tend to ignore is the stark lesson that GTA4 taught everyone: Games Do Not Move Consoles. Price drops barely even move consoles. So trying to pin all this on the force of brand and all the hot drizzling and delicious upcoming PS3 library points out the fundamental subjectivity of your "data analysis" and thus the reason so many people chortle and bounce their way through this thread.

 

[MikeB]

You know MikeB you do post some good info, however there is no real discussion to be had with you. You like to play the numbers game, but every post you make ends up as just blatant trolling. I don't know how old you really are, but grow the fuck up and stop the childishness if you want your threads to be taken seriously. Or do you just need the attention?

Please explain exactly what you consider to be trolling, I think it could just be a matter of differences of opinion. But I'm all ears.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Please explain exactly what you consider to be trolling, I think it could just be a matter of differences of opinion. But I'm all ears.

I already did. I don't know if you have me on ignore, but I laid it all out pretty in depthly.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

Please explain exactly what you consider to be trolling, I think it could just be a matter of differences of opinion. But I'm all ears.

I really ain't trying to hate on you, but if you read the replies in this topic its pretty clear what the general opinion of your posts are. Look at the fucking thread title for gods sake. Even the mods recognize your agenda. Tone down the Sony bias a little is all i'm saying...

 

[MikeB]

See, this is where your arguments collapse under the weight of your own bias. You stray from this idea of hard data into making prognostications based on personal preference. Gears Of War 2 could end up selling just as much as Halo 3.

I mean with regard to pushing hardware. I think most people interested in the 360 as shooter gaming platform already bought the platform for games like Halo 3 or the original Gears of War.

I am also referring to sequels to games which did well on the original XBox. All sequels to XBoxx million sellers are already out, only Fable and the multi-platform game Star Wars remaining.

Banjo Kazooie game could end up selling just as much as a Metal Gear Solid 4.

Nomatter how much I loved Kameo and like prior Banjoo games, I think that's extremely unlikely. Personally I disliked even the trailer, not what I expected, not at all.

I have no problem with you believing Banjoo outsells MGS4, but please also accept that I believe Halo 3 was by far the most important game the 360 will see.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I mean with regard to pushing hardware. I think most people interested in the 360 as shooter gaming platform already bought the platform for games like Halo 3 or the original Gears of War.

I am also referring to sequels to games which did well on the original XBox. All sequels to XBoxx million sellers are already out, only Fable and the multi-platform game Star Wars remaining.



Nomatter how much I loved Kameo and like prior Banjoo games, I think that's extremely unlikely. Personally I disliked even the trailer, not what I expected, not at all.

I have no problem with you believing Banjoo outsells MGS4, but please also accept that I believe Halo 3 was by far the most important game the 360 will see.

Why are trying to skirt the fundamental point of my post by devolving into fanboy patter?

Games Do Not Move Consoles.

 

[jarrod]

About 2 months and 2 weeks. Having a supply of about 5K I wouldn't really call a proper launch, but the PS3 has been launched in extreme low quatities in some countries like Taiwan as well.

So just 5k for it's first 2.5 months on market? Makes Wii's 35k in 2 weeks look epic by comparison.

I think almost everyone agrees the PS3 is going to outsell the 360, there's just disagreement with regard to how significant this difference will turn out to be in the coming years.

Uh, no... not nearly "everyone agrees" on that, sorry. Realistically, it's looking like a dead heat between them.

So there's not only more technology potential with regard to the PS3, but more market potential as well.

I'd say there's decent market potential in HD crossplatform R&D (across PC, 360 & PS3). Frankly, neither of the HD consoles is going to have enough market potential to encourage much exclusive R&D (that isn't 1st party funded anyway) over that. Or over Wii for that matter.

In a fundamental way, without each other PS3 and 360 would be in way worse shape incentive wise...

 

[Opiate]

At the end of 2007 total PS3 sales were 10.49 million, at the end of March 12.85 million, meaning Sony sold roughly 2.36 million PS3s for Q1 2008.
At the end of 2007 total 360 sales were 17.7 million, at the end of March 19 million, meaning Microsoft sold roughly 1.3 million 360s for Q1 2008.

The PS3 outsold the 360 for christmas and the year 2007 overall. For Q1 2008, the PS3 outsold the 360 by more than 1 million units.

I really don't understand why people would want to shout "misinformation!". This information is based on official company data!

IMO that's really good for the PS3 as the entry pricing is far higher and its biggest confirmed games are yet to come, this while the 360's biggest games are already out.

These figures represent sold to retailer, not sold to consumer. Thus, it's not as revealing as you initially indicate. Looking at the 360's shipment figures, they vary wildly from quarter to quarter, even YoY -- it's likely this indicates an overshipping/undershipping cycle, and not a sudden increase/decrease in consumer demand.

For example, if Microsoft overships dramatically again this Christmas like they did in Christmas 06, will you agree that this means the 360 is selling better than the PS3? That would be in line with the argument you're making here. Or would you argue that overshipping doesn't count? Then you'd be shifting between shipped to retailer/sold to consumer figures whenever it suited your argument.

 

[Chrange]

I added the following to the original post, I hope it helps to spark some more in depth discussion:

"Before any fanboy rantings please consider the following, then read the article to understand where the PS3 advantage comes from:"

You should move that to the very top. You know...to before you start your fanboy rantings.

 

[jarrod]

It's worth pointing out that Microsoft didn't give an exact figure for Q1, it was "over 19 million".

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

Soooo, are we meant to take this thread seriously?

I'm not sure. It seems like an attempted Sonybot 'cereal' thread.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

"The PS3 outsold the 360 for christmas and the year 2007 overall. For Q1 2008, the PS3 outsold the 360 by more than 1 million units."


Where is your data for this? It's been asked for like 2 pages now and you've yet to show any numbers. Last quarter and christmas aren't the same thing, either post the numbers or stop making shit up. This joke thread is just a waste of space. :/

 

[Scottlarock]

These figures represent sold to retailer, not sold to consumer. Thus, it's not as revealing as you initially indicate. Looking at the 360's shipment figures, they vary wildly from quarter to quarter, even YoY -- it's likely this indicates an overshipping/undershipping cycle, and not a sudden increase/decrease in consumer demand.

For example, if Microsoft overships dramatically again this Christmas like they did in Christmas 06, will you agree that this means the 360 is selling better than the PS3? That would be in line with the argument you're making here. Or would you argue that overshipping doesn't count? Then you'd be shifting between shipped to retailer/sold to consumer figures whenever it suited your argument.

!

 

[Paracelsus]

It's worth pointing out that Microsoft didn't give an exact figure for Q1, it was "over 19 million".

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10923232&postcount=323

And MS said they have a "5 millions lead worldwide". PS3 @ 14? No chance in hell. Maybe they did not even ship 14 millions.

 

[MikeB]

"The PS3 outsold the 360 for christmas and the year 2007 overall. For Q1 2008, the PS3 outsold the 360 by more than 1 million units."


Where is your data for this? It's been asked for like 2 pages now and you've yet to show any numbers. Last quarter and christmas aren't the same thing, either post the numbers or stop making shit up. This joke thread is just a waste of space. :/

OK change that into Christmas Quarter 2007, that's fine with me as well. I am not going to make a big deal out of trivials.

 

[MikeB]

It's worth pointing out that Microsoft didn't give an exact figure for Q1, it was "over 19 million".

At the time of the announcement surely. but you can add up the numbers yourself. Microsoft reported 1.3 million 360 sales for the quarter.

"Liddell attributed Microsoft's resiliency to the diversity of markets, geographies and customer types its businesses cross. The Entertainment and Devices Division, for example, far exceeded Microsoft's own expectations for the quarter, selling 1.3 million Xbox 360s."

Trying to find trivial straws to hang onto? I stated "roughly" anyhow, it could have been a little more, it could be a little less, but IMO that's pretty trivial. It wasn't closer to 1.2, nor was it closer to 1.4 million, else Microsoft had to report that.

 

[DCharlie]

where are your figures coming from?
can you give us a break down (of the figures) ?

 

[MikeB]

where are your figures coming from?
can you give us a break down (of the figures) ?

From financial reports.

For 360 figures look here, BTW jarrod it clearly states 19.0 million.
http://www.microsoft.com/msft/IC/KeyPerformanceIndicators.aspx

PS3

FY2006 total: 3.61 million

FY 2007:

Q1 0.71m
Q2 1.31m
Q3 4.90m
Q4 2.33m

FY2007 total: ~9.24 million

Sony's fiscal year end in March. So don't confuse calendar year with fiscal year timeframe. A calendar quarter is 1 quarter ahead of Sony's fiscal quarters.

360

At the end of Sony's FY2006: 10.9 million

Equal timeframe as Sony's FY 2007:

Q1: 0.7m
Q2: 1.8m
Q3: 4.3m
Q4: 1.3m

Total: 8.1 million, for calendar year 2007 deduct 1.3 and add 0.5, for 2007 the 360 sold 7.3 million 360s.

 

[MikeB]

And MS said they have a "5 millions lead worldwide". PS3 @ 14? No chance in hell. Maybe they did not even ship 14 millions.

Indications are that the gap is now less than 6 million. If that statement is correct then there are some possible clarifications for this.

At the end of March 2008, the retailer sales gap was reduced to 6.15 millio.

The statement was published in an interview on the 8th of May. So the month of April and the releases of GTA IV in between.

It could be Microsoft oversupplied retalers with 360s to get a nice round 19.0 million PR figure for their latest report. This may well be the case here in Europe judging from what I have seen. PS3 pallets at my local Media Market store reduce much faster and are quicker refreshed with new supply.

Also the release of GTA IV may have had a far greater effect on PS3 sales in Europe than for the US which suddenly got a huge supply of Wiis.

5 million does sound to be like on the low end, maybe he rounded the figure downwards, but this would be quite uncommon for a PR representative.

 

[cyberheater]

As a self confessed die hard fanboy it troubles me to know that it can be taken to a completely new level of fanaticism when I see posters like MikeB. Scary stuff indeed.

Nurse!

 

[Darkpen]

mikeb's girlfriend is cute D:

...that's all I have to add to this thread...

...and so is his sister, jailbait-ness aside

...

 

[Stumpokapow]

It could be Microsoft oversupplied retalers with 360s to get a nice round 19.0 million PR figure for their latest report. This may well be the case here in Europe judging from what I have seen. PS3 pallets at my local Media Market store reduce much faster and are quicker refreshed with new supply.

Give me a break.

 

[MikeB]

As a self confessed die hard fanboy it troubles me to know that it can be taken to a completely new level of fanaticism when I see posters like MikeB.

IMO, if one is to discuss console sales then why do not do this in depth, with arguments and figures to back up one's perspectives? That's IMO what I have been doing in the original post.

Of course I understand these figures and sales trends may come as a shock to some people, especially considering the PS3's higher entry price and the amount of 360 games already out on the market this including nearly all big XBox sequels....

And this while people are still waiting for big PS2 sequels like Gran Turismo 5, The Getaway, Metal Gear Solid 4, Jak & Daxter, SOCOM, Tekken, God of War, Twisted Metal, Killzone, Team ICO project, etc, and the wait for high profile Japenese orientated such as Square Enix' Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Star Ocean, etc, as well as what seem to possibly become high profile exclusive new games like White Knight Story, Eight Days, LittleBigPlanet, Afrika, Eyedentify, The Agency, Heavy Rain, etc...

 

[cyberheater]

IMO, if one is to discuss console sales then why do not do this in depth, with arguments and figures to back up one's perspectives? That's IMO what I have been doing in the original post.

And I think that's the problem right there. You've grabbed dozens of 'factoids' and assembled them in a manner to back up and enhance you own personal world view of your favourite console. Bravo for the attempt but your agenda makes the conclusions you've derived from meaningless.

All of this 'data' is open to debate, is questionable and provided by PR to fuel fanboy obsessions like yours.

Only Sony and MS know the true extent of their respective hardware sales and they simply aren't telling for understandable reasons.

EDIT. Also. I'm personally glad that PS3 isn't bombing. I'd like to see a general parity between MS and Sony this time around rather then 1 company dominating like the last gen. It's better for consumers this way.

 

[BishopLamont]

It could be Microsoft oversupplied retalers with 360s to get a nice round 19.0 million PR figure for their latest report. This may well be the case here in Europe judging from what I have seen. PS3 pallets at my local Media Market store reduce much faster and are quicker refreshed with new supply.

Media Market = New Gamecube Hut.

Also the release of GTA IV may have had a far greater effect on PS3 sales in Europe than for the US which suddenly got a huge supply of Wiis.

....Wat?

But seriously, how the hell can you leave out the Wii when it's the friggin smashing both consoles to oblivion.

And this while people are still waiting for big PS2 sequels like Gran Turismo 5, The Getaway, Metal Gear Solid 4, Jak & Daxter, SOCOM, Tekken, God of War, Twisted Metal, Killzone, Team ICO project, etc, and the wait for high profile Japenese orientated such as Square Enix' Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Star Ocean, etc, as well as what seem to possibly become high profile exclusive new games like White Knight Story, Eight Days, LittleBigPlanet, Afrika, Eyedentify, The Agency, Heavy Rain, etc...

Lol, you forgot to add Monster Hunter.

 

[AugustDivision]

OK change that into Christmas Quarter 2007, that's fine with me as well. I am not going to make a big deal out of trivials.

That's what your entire thread is about.

 

[xbhaskarx]

As a self confessed die hard fanboy it troubles me to know that it can be taken to a completely new level of fanaticism when I see posters like MikeB. Scary stuff indeed.

Maybe you would be more fanatical if Sony had screwed your family:

I am not afraid of Microsoft or XBox 360 fanboys. They have screwed my family with their IMO far below standard quality products and customer support and I will criticize them whenever I feel it's fair.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Maybe you would be more fanatical if Sony had screwed your family:

This time, they got personal. :lol

 

[Narag]

Maybe you would be more fanatical if Sony had screwed your family:

:lol

 

[FirstInHell]

I mean with regard to pushing hardware. I think most people interested in the 360 as shooter gaming platform already bought the platform for games like Halo 3 or the original Gears of War.


Nomatter how much I loved Kameo and like prior Banjoo games, I think that's extremely unlikely. Personally I disliked even the trailer, not what I expected, not at all.


I have no problem with you believing Banjoo outsells MGS4, but please also accept that I believe Halo 3 was by far the most important game the 360 will see.


It could be Microsoft oversupplied retalers with 360s to get a nice round 19.0 million PR figure for their latest report. This may well be the case here in Europe judging from what I have seen. PS3 pallets at my local Media Market store reduce much faster and are quicker refreshed with new supply.

None of this has any basis in fact.

-Banjo will not do well because you disliked the trailer?
-You think all shooter fans have bought their 360 already translating into no new console sales
-Your local game store sells a lot of PS3s? Truly a barometer for Microsoft's impending downfall.

Do you enjoy being universally dumped on in your own thread? Since you have not given up yet I suspect you just like the attention.

I am not afraid of Microsoft or XBox 360 fanboys. They have screwed my family with their IMO far below standard quality products and customer support and I will criticize them whenever I feel it's fair.

Wow.....

 

[TomServo]

And this while people are still waiting for big PS2 sequels like Gran Turismo 5, The Getaway, Metal Gear Solid 4, Jak & Daxter, SOCOM, Tekken, God of War, Twisted Metal, Killzone, Team ICO project, etc, and the wait for high profile Japenese orientated such as Square Enix' Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Star Ocean, etc, as well as what seem to possibly become high profile exclusive new games like White Knight Story, Eight Days, LittleBigPlanet, Afrika, Eyedentify, The Agency, Heavy Rain, etc...

Seriously? After the past year and a half of "wait for..." as a line of reasoning behind some proposed magical bump in PS3 sales you're still using the "wait for..." list?

Didn't last month's NPD teach you anything? There are two, maybe three games in that list that have a decent shot at significantly bumping hardware sales, and even then only for one or two months.

 

[BorkBork]

Seriously? After the past year and a half of "wait for..." as a line of reasoning behind some proposed magical bump in PS3 sales you're still using the "wait for..." list?

It's a little bit of history repeating, I have vague recollections of people using the exact same reasoning for the Gamecube's supposed resurgence.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

It's a little bit of history repeating, I have vague recollections of people using the exact same reasoning for the Gamecube's supposed resurgence.

We've been saying this, but they never heed the words. I'm referring to Japan though.

 

[Narag]

It's a little bit of history repeating, I have vague recollections of people using the exact same reasoning for the Gamecube's supposed resurgence.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239871

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239871

I missed this thread and as a Nintendo fan at that time, I was saying the same shit. :lol :lol :lol

I used to go on and on about F-Zero GX, not really giving a shit that it is one of the most unforgiving games ever made.

 

[MikeB]

None of this has any basis in fact.

-Banjo will not do well because you disliked the trailer?

The 360 isn't really a platformer console. I love platformers and liked the original Banjo series, I read comments from many people who were dissapointed with what they saw. The looks aren't that great (actually far below what I was expecting after Kameo), too much focuss on vehicles and too little of what made the original Banjo games good. To attract Banjo fans towards the platform I think they should have stuck to the serie's strength.

To say I think Banjo will sell badly is putting words into mouth. I just don't think it will be hardware pusher.

-You think all shooter fans have bought their 360 already translating into no new console sales

No, I didn't say that but I think the bulk of shooter fans who like to play their shooters on the 360 already bought the console for games like Halo 3, Gears of War and Call of Duty 4. People who prefer to play their shooters on a PC, will probably wait for an enhanced PC port.

Your local game store sells a lot of PS3s? Truly a barometer for Microsoft's impending downfall.

No, just a mere indication amongst many that the 360 isn't selling so well here in Europe. Why do you talk in extremes and absolutes while my comments have been far more moderate than this?

Do you enjoy being universally dumped on in your own thread? Since you have not given up yet I suspect you just like the attention.

I don't mind it, it feels a bit like Nariko taking down that huge army in Heavenly Sword. ;-) In the end it won't matter. I just wanted people to know the true figures, so maybe this can help to keep the noise down with regard to praising the 360's sales while spelling the PS3's doom.

 

[MikeB]

I missed this thread and as a Nintendo fan at that time, I was saying the same shit. :lol :lol :lol

I used to go on and on about F-Zero GX, not really giving a shit that it is one of the most unforgiving games ever made.

I was a Nintendo 64 gamer, but only due to Mario64. The GameCube for me lacked any equivalent cartoon-like system pushers which would be on par with Mario64. I also disliked the form factor compared to other Nintendo consoles like the Snes, Nintendo 64 and the Wii, it really looked like a completely kids orientated console to me, which isn't bad per se depending on goals but IMO did limit its appeal for the mass market.

 

[Uncle]

Does this thread already have the semi-obligatory Ice Age "DVD" comparison pictures? It seems like it should.