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My take on The Matrix Ressurections. (This thread is Spoilers made flesh)

MGHA

Member
I liked the film for what it was, but there are so many contradictions, it's hard to swallow. I see the word woke thrown around a lot but I didn't really see much of it. The whole Morpheus/smith thing was probably the biggest turd in the movie.
 

BadBurger

Gold Member
Thoughts after a second watch:

(-) The choreography and overall quality of the combat is painfully lesser. And I understand this new direction was purposeful, to reflect that this is something “new” and reflects the evolution of action movies in the decades since the first. But it really hurts the film.

In the original trilogy one could almost feel each blow that was blocked, landed, or nearly missed. There was a sense of urgency and danger each time an agent took aim and unleashed gunfire from their huge magnum guns, the bullets ripping through scenery and barely missing the protagonists. In this it’s all muted, all devoid of stakes. There is still plenty of quality action, but nothing rising near the level we all know Lana is capable of writing, planning, and directing

(-) The direction of photography is missing the immersive and confined feeling from the trilogy when the viewer is watching events unfold within the Matrix. Whether they're in the real world, or leaping through doorways across time and space, it all feels the same

(+) It was humorous watching Lana, through narrative, explain how all of the game companies that made the terrible Matrix games and spin-offs took all of the wrong lessons from the films, how they failed to grasp any of the deeper and nuanced philosophical and social observations the Wachowskis baked into the trilogy. It culminated with that annoying designer proclaiming that what the Matrix really is, what it is personified by, is “bullet time” <jazz hands>. Imagine getting the prevailing messages and questions of the films so wrong

(+) As the world passed into the current century and the Information Age was just taking off, we viewed computing, the internet, and the possibility of AI as ominous, unfeeling, unthinking concepts. Well, in the past two decades the internet and whatever simple AI we managed to develop actually came to reflect us. They are mirrors of humanity. Our desires, fears, insecurities, and more than anything our gregariousness and vanity. These new agents and programs no longer reflect the grim outlook of technology that prevailed in the late 90’s and early 2000’s, but rather they became Instagram, Twitter, et al. And in doing so we realize that they are far, far less threatening than we thought they would be in the end. In fact, our fear of technological advancement from just twenty years ago feels so foolish now, so quaint. We were always the masters of our universe. The evolution of Agent Smith reveals this more than any other figurative analogy in the film.

(+) Lana reminds the viewer over and over again, not only through shades of meta but also via blunt exposition, that something like the Matrix – not the fictional network within the films but rather the franchise itself – is something that can be reimagined by anyone. She basically admits that an auteur can never have complete control over their creations once they’re released into the wild and owned by some corporate entity. It’s therefore OK that this film is different, that it’s not exactly what we remember. And it’s OK that this likely won’t be the final creation within universe - that like the Bond franchise others will come along and place their own unique spin on it. Such an event could even be a great thing. A better thing.

Perhaps we have exhausted our supply of original stories. Maybe all of the best stories are nothing more than a creator taking a common set of philosophical principles and concepts and crafting a tale out of it, even if it mimics something already extant. And again, it’s fine. Leave your nostalgia and fanboyism, your elitism if you will, at the door, and just vibe.

(-) While I understand the closing moments are satire, another meta observation of (largely comic book) films of today, and it got a laugh out of me, I wish Lana had kept it grounded. More vague, more open. Yes it was good fun watching the two heroes have the snide interaction with their arch nemesis, them seeming almost friendly even, as a way to leave the franchise open for a sequel (sounds like most Marvel films, right? Or Fast and Furious. Or <insert franchise from the past decade here>). But I have a feeling that is going to be lost on 99.99% of the viewers

I have more to say about specific elements of the story, and things like pacing, but overall my TLDR is: a serviceable sci-fi film with some unfortunately very low lows, but if you're open and able to understand what the writer/director is trying to convey, it becomes a great film.

3.5/5
 

Alcibiades

Member
Saw it in IMAX last night. Was OK and had its moments but probably the weakest of the series.

The two most interesting ideas were never really fleshed out:

1 -

The movie-within-a-movie 4th-wall stuff. They took a few steps in this direction then took the foot off the gas. So in Matrix 4, the character Mr. Anderson works for Warner Bros and the Matrix Trilogy he made was a big success. Now WB wants a part 4. I wanted them to go full out and have this Mr. Anderson guy realize he's a character in a movie - heck even mention Lana by name. Or maybe the Matrix wants him to think that so he questions his existence/agency in a way different from being in a simulation. Would have been hilarious and all sorts of ideas could be explored here. A truly ambitious director/writer would have us, as audience members, wondering what the heck we just watched and whether the Matrix movies are distraction by a real simulation controlling us or something. Sort of like how the first movie blew us away.

2 - Machine civil war/aftermath of Matrix 3. Ok, so what happened? Has progress been made? Are there other human enclaves out there? Are humans making progress? Is the plan to live in secret forever? So few answers. One of the things I liked about the Animatrix is they hinted at a larger world, in spite of the movies making it seem like Zion was the end-all-be-all. This movie could have explore more of the aftermath or even Matrix Trilogy era events from another point of view. The world seems so small and this movie could have really could have expanded the universe.

Other things:

-I didn't notice the masks at all.

-Also, I liked the new main character (Asian I think).

-The blue pill/red pill stuff I know has a political connotation now, but by trying resolve it, they made things more confusing.

-Action was so-so.

-Why did Neo lose his flying power but nothing else? Also, why is Trinity able to fly now but not Neo?

-Not sure what's supposed to happen at the end. Are they gonna free people? Will the machines build another Matrix? Sort of confused.

EDIT:

-Why is Morpheus in the film at all, why is he a collection of metal balls, and if he is going to be in it why have it be this actor? The delivery doesn't really land.
 
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RaduN

Member
First 20 minutes had a sense of ...something. After that, it went downhill faster than a fat fuck on a pool slide, covered in sun oil.

After 20 or so years, i now get why they wanted Kojima to join the Matrix team. They knew very well, even back then, their creative steam only lasted for one movie.
 

Denton

Member
PS. Bugs is amazing and needed more screen time. Make a Bugs spinoff, WB! I want to see her redpill moment and subsequent ass kicking endeavours.
I liked the rest of your post too, but this needs highlighting. At first I was like "oh no, danger hair" and by the end I was like "Bugs needed more screentime, I want to see more of her dammit".
But the emotional core of this film was of course Neo and Trinity, as well as seeing Neo be out on the real world again...and it worked 100% for me.
 
Just gonna parrot the general consensus. Film had a very interesting first third, then it fell off a cliff hard. They done my boy Neo wrong, guy was a walking wimpy shield and nothing else. Shit film.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I mean, Keanu is absolutely horrible in this. He definitely can't act outside of that tough guy with one emotion. It was really hard to watch.
 

SiteSeer

Member
-Not sure what's supposed to happen at the end. Are they gonna free people? Will the machines build another Matrix? Sort of confused.

EDIT:

-Why is Morpheus in the film at all, why is he a collection of metal balls, and if he is going to be in it why have it be this actor? The delivery doesn't really land.
as i understand it morpheus died since revolutions and the current version is neo's memory of him turned into a matrix program. that matrix program then red pilled himself over the 60 years or so that neo and trinity has been kept captive, eventually seeking out neo again, just like neo remembered. the metal balls (or magnets) is just a way for programs in the matrix to come into the real world, like the opposite of people being loaded into the matrix.

the end, i think, has a lot to do with the wachowski's parents passing and specifically lana's processing of that grief. i read a while ago that the name resurrections itself was a reference to that event. neo and trinity, they literally say it, get a second chance at happiness. where as they died at the end of revolutions, they now live at the end of resurrections and are together in rekindled love. also note how none of bugs' crew are killed where in the first movie almost all morpheus' crew are killed. call lana going soft or whatever but this movie has a 'happy ending'.
 

Ulysses 31

Member
call lana going soft or whatever but this movie has a 'happy ending'.
Eh, only if you focus on Neo and Trinity finding each other again. In the big picture a huge part of humanity is still hooked to the matrix and the rest in hiding from machines that still form an existential threat.
 
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Doczu

Member
Here's your refined palate
cheesing south park GIF
 

Tschumi

Member
I'm glad to see a swell of support for the movie, i can definitely see scope for positive takes. I had a lot of fun with my negatives but the positives were there.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
I mean, Keanu is absolutely horrible in this. He definitely can't act outside of that tough guy with one emotion. It was really hard to watch.

I don't know. I get he's kind of stilted, but there were two scenes in particular, him freaking out in the bathroom and him poking the mirror and laughing during the White Rabbit montage, that seemed super genuine and awkward in a realistic way to me. I know it doesn't have everything to do with acting, either, but I thought this was the most interesting Neo the character has ever been.
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
The Matrix has always leaned heavily on action scenes, it's message is simple and clear: expect punches from rogue AI (Agent Smith) and see beyond the norm. Despite being a pandemic I saw the movie in socially distant theater and the Matrix hate seems to be from the Matrix 1 hardcore fans. Neo and Trinity are the strengths of Matrix resurrections and everyone else (Morphis, Bugs) have great scenes, shut off the boring moments you'd otherwise have. Look at the scope of immigration for the franchise that you usually don't see.
 

Majukun

Member
I think the machine civil war came about because of resource scarcity
the war came because of resource scarcity, but the machines became more sentient because of neo (for "some reason", mvie is really vague about the whole process)
it's the part where neo is basically saying that what he did was useless since the matrix is still there, and they told him that he changed what "our side" means, meaning that some machines (and programs) became more like "people" and started allying with humans and fight for "freedom" (as they said, zyon was in its own matrix, a world of us vs them, humanity vs machines, while in the new city you can find both sentient machines and programs living with humans)

once agan, these concept while interesting are never actually explored, and seem more as an excus to show some cool things and tell the audiencethat they are not dfecating over the first trilogy (like for example starwars did, with the win in the trilogy being retroactively rendered useless)
 

Majukun

Member
Neo as he was, full of self doubt and without a mastery of any of his old abilities, definitely was not a match for The Analyst. It was only after reconnecting with Trinity that he was able to slowly get back to his full potential, with Trinity reaching hers for the first time. THAT'S when The Analyst became a joke. But he was very much holding all of the cards until that point.
eh, we still have yet to see him doing something actually impressive other than trying to hack in the scene where they are taking out neo and the bullet time scene, which gives him autority over the matrix but not really something never seen before when in the past trilogy neo went against "god agent smith"..maybe i have hyped him to much in my mind, but the movie seemed to be building up for something more grandious than "this middle management guy went into business for himself and wants to make a mint, while neo wants his waifu back"

reaching the half of the movie and seeing how slow the movie was going, i thought they were gonna do a "dune" and only do a part 1 of a much bigger story, slightly afterward it became clear instead that it was going to be a rally mundane and small scoped story about neo saving his waifu for laifu

and that's withot considering the fact that neo being a better battery and being saw while being stressed, and trinity being another the one, are plot points i amreally nt convinced of when looking at the past trilogy (but i'm also not some big fan that know everything about the series..so maybe there's some reason why they are in the movie.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
eh, we still have yet to see him doing something actually impressive other than trying to hack in the scene where they are taking out neo and the bullet time scene, which gives him autority over the matrix but not really something never seen before when in the past trilogy neo went against "god agent smith"..maybe i have hyped him to much in my mind, but the movie seemed to be building up for something more grandious than "this middle management guy went into business for himself and wants to make a mint, while neo wants his waifu back"

reaching the half of the movie and seeing how slow the movie was going, i thought they were gonna do a "dune" and only do a part 1 of a much bigger story, slightly afterward it became clear instead that it was going to be a rally mundane and small scoped story about neo saving his waifu for laifu

and that's withot considering the fact that neo being a better battery and being saw while being stressed, and trinity being another the one, are plot points i amreally nt convinced of when looking at the past trilogy (but i'm also not some big fan that know everything about the series..so maybe there's some reason why they are in the movie.

For your last point, it's because this a newer version of the Matrix, built with Neo and Trinity at it's center. It didn't make sense in the older movies because that version of the Matrix ran on different rules. Neo was an anomaly in the system, and Trinity was a nobody. My theory for how Trinity became such a powerful, important part of the new system is that some part of Neo's code (and therefore power) got transplanted to Trinity when he revived her on the rooftop in Reloaded. It's all just kind of conjecture at this point, but if he put a part of himself inside of her, and then was himself plugged into the Source at 01 in Revolutions (what allowed Smith to be deleted) then that would make Trinity special within the Matrix, a sort of extension of Neo.

As for The Analyst, I took the threat he posed as his mastery of the system, his ability to instantly control the minds stuck in the Matrix, call agents, control time, reset things, etc. Not so much he could fling Neo through walls or whatever. There's a line in the movie where he talks about his predecessor, and he's obviously referencing The Architect, and that guy sure didn't seem like he was at risk of giving Neo a Rock Bottom at random.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
and that's withot considering the fact that neo being a better battery and being saw while being stressed, and trinity being another the one, are plot points i amreally nt convinced of
It wasn't about them being 'better batteries'. That plot point was first a retcon of original power-source being human biology, the implication is they are using human emotional response (specifically, suffering being most efficient) to generate power. Science here never worked, but discarding it at least offers suspension of disbelief, and offering the 'human is more than a sum of its machine parts'. Though that really should have been in original trilogy.
The second bit was that Neo & Trinity were needed to keep people in the state where they accept suffering without wanting out. This was much more poorly explained, but essentially they were alluding to its equivalency of the 'controls' all around us today (ie. social media loop etc). When everyone around you subjects themselves to the cycle and not complain, you're more accepting of it as well, N&T representing said 'role model'.
 
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Thaedolus

Gold Member
I always thought the battery thing was some sort of compromise with the first law of robotics…they couldn’t just wipe our humanity as a whole, so enslaving them as batteries in The Matrix was the compromise, with even the first versions of it being a paradise for humans. This also doesn’t violate the laws of thermodynamics because batteries don’t produce power, they store it, so somehow that can make sense if the robots are just using humans as some sort of buffer or storage device rather than generation.

The weird retcon about revving up emotions for output in this one didn’t make any sense. Might be the dumbest part of the movie
 

Ulysses 31

Member
I always thought the battery thing was some sort of compromise with the first law of robotics…they couldn’t just wipe our humanity as a whole, so enslaving them as batteries in The Matrix was the compromise, with even the first versions of it being a paradise for humans. This also doesn’t violate the laws of thermodynamics because batteries don’t produce power, they store it, so somehow that can make sense if the robots are just using humans as some sort of buffer or storage device rather than generation.
I don't think that's the case for the robots made by other robot(the floaty ones with tentacles).
The weird retcon about revving up emotions for output in this one didn’t make any sense. Might be the dumbest part of the movie
How is that a retcon? It doesn't re-explain something from the earlier movies, it's new information that the Analyst discovered in the latest matrix. There's a line in the first movie about human bodies generating BTUs of body heat so the different treatment and manipulation of the latest matrix might cause humans to produce more BTUs.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
I don't think that's the case for the robots made by other robot(the floaty ones with tentacles).

How is that a retcon? It doesn't re-explain something from the earlier movies, it's new information that the Analyst discovered in the latest matrix. There's a line in the first movie about human bodies generating BTUs of body heat so the different treatment and manipulation of the latest matrix might cause humans to produce more BTUs.

Maybe it’s not a retcon per se but it doesn’t really make sense from a physics standpoint. If a human is producing more BTUs it needs more fuel to do so, which must be extracted from some natural resource somehow and fed to the human. The human battery analogy sorta makes sense, the human turbine not so much. If they just want to generate more power there’s far more efficient ways to do so besides tormenting people
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Maybe it’s not a retcon per se but it doesn’t really make sense from a physics standpoint. If a human is producing more BTUs it needs more fuel to do so, which must be extracted from some natural resource somehow and fed to the human. The human battery analogy sorta makes sense, the human turbine not so much. If they just want to generate more power there’s far more efficient ways to do so besides tormenting people

Isn't that more of an issue with the entire franchise, though? There are probably a lot of things more sensible than heat. I mean, it's never really established what the machines want the power for, anyway. Maybe for propagation? I mean, the sky was blackened, and they survived, so they clearly don't need sunlight to survive. Same with the flora and fauna that died out. I mean, what? Are they trying to make a rocket? Dyson sphere the planet?
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
How is that a retcon? It doesn't re-explain something from the earlier movies, it's new information
Yea, like Holdo's maneuver.
Retcons are often trying to be clever by just 'adding new information' - like revisiting a past scene with a new character etc. but ultimately they are saying something new about established canon, retroactive implication is those power plants were never thermal-energy based, whether machines 'figured it out' or not (I am not bothering with that one).
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
Isn't that more of an issue with the entire franchise, though? There are probably a lot of things more sensible than heat. I mean, it's never really established what the machines want the power for, anyway. Maybe for propagation? I mean, the sky was blackened, and they survived, so they clearly don't need sunlight to survive. Same with the flora and fauna that died out. I mean, what? Are they trying to make a rocket? Dyson sphere the planet?

That goes back to my whole compromise with the first law of robotics understanding of the first trilogy. No, it's not the most sensible or practical solution from a purely "store energy" approach, but it allows them to not wipe out humanity while also coexisting peacefully with the vast majority of humans. It sorta works as an imperfect symbiotic relationship, and the conflict with this system is what gives us the plot of the original trilogy. It makes less sense, however, to think of humans as generating power for the machines instead of energy storage. Any energy generated by the humans is going to require much more input than what will be output.
 
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Ulysses 31

Member
It makes less sense, however, to think of humans as generating power for the machines instead of energy storage. Any energy generated by the humans is going to require much more input than what will be output.
I think that's something you should overlook with it being science fiction and assume the machines can get more out of humans than it costs to maintain them in pod.(Would help if it's also hinted at the machines have other sources they get energy from.)

Or how a new-born Alien can grow to human size so fast without without sustenance in the Alien movies.
 
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Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Any energy generated by the humans is going to require much more input than what will be output.
That's only because they tried to explicitly explain it with conventional physics in first trilogy - which is ironic given how most everything else in the same world is just nonsensical technobabble and nobody questions it.
To that point - there are sci-fi series with very similar plot-point (humans as source of energy exploited by a machine race) where narrative never runs into that problem, it's all down to creative writing, and I don't think it's coincidental M4 tries to address that, as half-assed as the attempt was.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
I think that's something you should overlook with it being science fiction and assume the machines can get more out of humans than it costs to maintain them in pod.(Would help if it's also hinted at the machines have other sources they get energy from.)

That sounds less like science fiction and more like magic to me. I think the machines are clearly getting energy from natural resources like geothermal or nuclear or fossil fuels after the skies were blackened, because they still took down the human race before they created the matrix. And Morpheus holds up a Duracell to show Neo what humans are in present time...which still wouldn't make a whole lot of sense, unless there's a reason for the machines to use such an inefficient compromise, like the first law of robotics...which actually kinda all works for me from a sci fi, suspending disbelief standpoint. NPH getting props for getting more output from Neo by tormenting him seems a bit too far, though, because it really doesn't fit that previous understanding. Still, it's a pretty minor gripe.
 
Some good ideas ( matrix 1 , reloaded and rev being a videogame to downplay what neo did so that less people would wake up, the whole machine v machine war, io, and even the new architect that made the new matrix based on feel feels instead of cold hard logic of the ot) but god damn is the execution botched. Rrally felt that terminator salvation whiff.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Some good ideas ( matrix 1 , reloaded and rev being a videogame to downplay what neo did so that less people would wake up, the whole machine v machine war, io, and even the new architect that made the new matrix based on feel feels instead of cold hard logic of the ot) but god damn is the execution botched. Rrally felt that terminator salvation whiff.

Ironically (or sensibly), Salvation was the last Terninator film I enjoyed before the parade of clusterfucks, rehashes and REPRESENTATION ruined the rest of the movies. I liked the idea of an entire Terminator film taking place in the future. I tend to really enjoy when franchises go in a different direction or tell a different story, so long as there's enough repetition of the original formula to make something that challenges the status quo, instead of just making random different ideas attached to a name.

The Matrix had it's original trilogy before Resurrections. Terminator had the first three in current day before doing a movie set in the future. Used intelligently and sparingly, I find going left when the rest of the series is going right can be refreshing.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
The creators could say it's just very advanced technology. 🤡

Today's electronic stuff would very likely look like magic to someone from a few centuries ago.
I get that but good sci fi has some grounding in reality and can seem conceivable to us even if we don’t have the tech now. Completely disregarding the laws of thermodynamics isn’t really grounded in reality.
 

GloveSlap

Member
I get that but good sci fi has some grounding in reality and can seem conceivable to us even if we don’t have the tech now. Completely disregarding the laws of thermodynamics isn’t really grounded in reality.
Apparently in the original script humans were being used for their brains computational power and it was later changed due to studio notes. Neither way was perfect, but the original concept makes more sense for sure.
 

Bragr

Member
What a cringy god awful overproduced trash of a film. Braindead bullshit for idiots. Luckily, idiots are everywhere, even in this thread.
 

Nankatsu

Member
Why, just why they had to completely shit on the trilogy premise Of The One like this? It's like the original trilogy didn't happened anymore. It's fucking horrible plot wise, just for the need of having an equal female character to Neo.

Trinity was already a phenomenal and badass character on her own, why the need for this shit of The one is now the Two.

They fucking nerfed Neo so bad that the videogame metaphor is laughable. Dude legit forgot how to play his own game and now just spams force push and shields.

We're better off assuming this film never happened and the original trilogy ended there. Plot wise, this movie is a fucking disgrace.
 
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Majukun

Member
It wasn't about them being 'better batteries'. That plot point was first a retcon of original power-source being human biology, the implication is they are using human emotional response (specifically, suffering being most efficient) to generate power. Science here never worked, but discarding it at least offers suspension of disbelief, and offering the 'human is more than a sum of its machine parts'. Though that really should have been in original trilogy.
The second bit was that Neo & Trinity were needed to keep people in the state where they accept suffering without wanting out. This was much more poorly explained, but essentially they were alluding to its equivalency of the 'controls' all around us today (ie. social media loop etc). When everyone around you subjects themselves to the cycle and not complain, you're more accepting of it as well, N&T representing said 'role model'.
that sounds..really stupid?

sure the human as batteries idea in the trilogy didn't make much sense since humans are terrible batteries (but was a change dictated by producers, in reality humans were supposed to make up a supercomputer of sorts), but at least itwas actually doable, you CAN use humans, or any living creature, as a battery, they are just way to inefficient for it to be actually of any use...but machines powering up because "emotions"?
that's straight up magic mumbo jumbo (at the end of the trilogy neo does some stuff to in the real world, but as far as i remember they are always done regarding control of the machines, not actual magic)

also still the case seemed to be of neo specifically being an exceptional battery even in that regard, which makes no sense, he is not able to suffer , hate or love any mpore than any other human being.

for the second part..never got the idea that neo and trinity were ever needed to keep other people in the matrix, the bad guy says pretty clear, peple just volunteer on their own to stay in comforting lies than in harsh realities...neo was at the center just because by itself was apparently so much betetr of a battery that they couldn't "beat production records" without him.

also, now that i thnk about it (hell the more i think about the movie the less sense it makes)...how the hell just seeing Neo woke up Bugs? what actually happened the time he attempted suicide? in the scene as it is depicted he is pretty much about to fall yet he is still alive...and the editng makes it look like it happened during the game awards, so he was already the multidecorated programmer of the matrix(games) trilogy..so what actually happened that day?
 

Majukun

Member
For your last point, it's because this a newer version of the Matrix, built with Neo and Trinity at it's center. It didn't make sense in the older movies because that version of the Matrix ran on different rules. Neo was an anomaly in the system, and Trinity was a nobody. My theory for how Trinity became such a powerful, important part of the new system is that some part of Neo's code (and therefore power) got transplanted to Trinity when he revived her on the rooftop in Reloaded. It's all just kind of conjecture at this point, but if he put a part of himself inside of her, and then was himself plugged into the Source at 01 in Revolutions (what allowed Smith to be deleted) then that would make Trinity special within the Matrix, a sort of extension of Neo.

As for The Analyst, I took the threat he posed as his mastery of the system, his ability to instantly control the minds stuck in the Matrix, call agents, control time, reset things, etc. Not so much he could fling Neo through walls or whatever. There's a line in the movie where he talks about his predecessor, and he's obviously referencing The Architect, and that guy sure didn't seem like he was at risk of giving Neo a Rock Bottom at random.
well if we go in the realm of headcanon we can discuss for hours..but again, not really convinced.

as for the analyst, i wasn't really expecting him to go for a dragonballz fight necessarely, but from the guy that even agent smith fears I was expecting some almighty powerful powers (inside the matrix) and some mighty intellect, not a middle management guy with a get rich quick scheme.
 

makaveli60

Member
How did it butcher the legacy?

I'm not seeing a single person on here explain anything. I can go straight into detail everything wrong about tlj with ease. Yet nobody here can say why this was bad.
In short, the movie has no justification for its existence. Storywise it adds nothing and a lot of times it’s a parody of itself, it’s like a Marvel movie made for the masses that tries to be funny but fails spectacularly. I don’t think I have to introduce the original film, the insane amount of philosophy, symbolism etc. in it while revolutionizing the action movies in its time. You get neither of these here. At least it’s not full of PC bullshit (but not free of it of course).
 

Konnor

Member
The new human city looked empty and dead and so did most of the world in the new movie. Direction was all the place to the point is looked amateutish at times, action ranged from decent to fucking boring. The Trinity flying bullshit was completely out of place (and I honestly don't give a shit about convoluted rationalizations about it) and only existed for political reasons. The entire movie was uneven, the Wachowskis seem to have completely lost it and this comes from someone that actually liked the Matrix sequels.

Having said all, it wasn't as bad as I expected. I didn't hate it but it was certainly the worst movie out of the four.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
well if we go in the realm of headcanon we can discuss for hours..but again, not really convinced.

as for the analyst, i wasn't really expecting him to go for a dragonballz fight necessarely, but from the guy that even agent smith fears I was expecting some almighty powerful powers (inside the matrix) and some mighty intellect, not a middle management guy with a get rich quick scheme.

Yes, we could, I don't see why you flavor that like it's a derogatory term, either. Theory crafting and in depth discussion has always been a linchpin of a lot of the FUN to be had with The Matrix in my group of friends growing up. You're shown a lot in these movies, and you have to infer and extrapolate a lot of things, some of which could be spot on or entirely incorrect. Things like what exactly Seraph was or who he used to be weren't explicitly told to the audience before, but some of us had fun going along the breadcrumb trail given the facts we had. His code was weird, he utilized back doors like a lot of Exiles, he knew Smith, specifically. Same can be said for a lot of things. What was the purpose and exact location of Mobil Station in Revolutions? Going further back, before we had the answers, what's with the wall of monitors all focused on Neo as Smith was interrogating him in the first movie? What allowed him to become to One? Headcanon is a huge part of this franchise, you're missing the forest for the trees if you only go along with explicitly narrated facts.

And for the second point, I get what you mean, and the ending was severely lacking in a subway station fight/Super Burly Brawl style climax (the same thing that drags Reloaded down for me) but I was never under the impression that we'd see The Analyst exhibit really any confrontational skills worth a damn it a scenario where his opponents were right in front of him. Agents probably feared him (I'm gonna do the headcanon thing again, warning) because he had complete mastery over his version of the Matrix. Agents are connected to the source, assuming that detail stayed the same from the original trilogy. The Architect, and by proxy The Analyst, if we go with a body metaphor, is the arm of the Source's brain. A digital manifestation of the entire machine collectives' will and duty to keep its system running correctly.

I figure it's kind of like the Geth, where overall, they all have the same goal and purpose, but they're still allowed control and autonomy of their specific forms. The Analyst is probably concerned is energy output rates because, similar to established facts in the previous trilogy, were he to perform his task poorly, or inefficiently, or not meet a quota we're unaware of, he would likely be replaced by a program that could. The Agents got upgraded once Neo emerged as The One, The Oracle talks about how The Merovingian's entire criminal underworld is made of (or was made of) programs that were outclassed or broken in some way that took refuge from being deleted.

Programs are established as having free will in The Matrix, and The Analyst was drunk off of his own power, and what do men with power fear? Losing that power. That's why I think the cat and mouse between Neo and The Analyst works. It's a struggle of freedom vs. Order, of schedule vs. Autonomy, of ambition vs. Complacency. The Analyst uses every trick in his book to thwart Neo freeing Trinity. The horde, the bombers, the Agents, manipulating the time around Neo, mindfucking him into thinking he's going to kill Trinity, assuming the role of his therapist and planting the idea that he's losing it and making him dependent on the blue pill, erasing entire portions of his memory, changing his appearance to make him unfindable. The whole movie was like The Truman Show if it was directed by Chris Nolan. It was a blind man trying to escape from a sadistic rich dude who had cameras on every street corner.

But I dunno. You'll take what you want from it. According to what's his dick, I'm just one of those brain dead idiots, or whatever.
 

SuperGooey

Member
Why, just why they had to completely shit on the trilogy premise Of The One like this? It's like the original trilogy didn't happened anymore. It's fucking horrible plot wise, just for the need of having an equal female character to Neo.

Trinity was already a phenomenal and badass character on her own, why the need for this shit of The one is now the Two.

They fucking nerfed Neo so bad that the videogame metaphor is laughable. Dude legit forgot how to plays his own game and now just spams force push and shields.

We're better off assuming this film never happened and the original trilogy ended there. Plot wise, this movie is a fucking disgrace.
Reloaded is the movie debunked "the One" prophecy.

Even if you ignore that, there are was within the lore of the previous movies that can explain this:

1. Trinity's kiss in the first movie brought Neo back to life, awakening as the One (aka the anomaly). So she already has a direct connection there.

2. Neo brings Trinity back to life in Reloaded, perhaps giving her some of his code (ala, like Smith got parts of his code)

3. This is a new version of the Matrix, meaning there will be another anomaly. If the system doesn't take into account that the previous One was carried over to this new version, that could mean there are two anomalies.

Regardless, I found it to be one of the most satisfying moments in the series to see Trinity awaken after her and Neo both had been through so much and were willing to accept death over forgetting each other again. There are several moments in this movie that are among the best in the series. Maybe I'm overly sentimental, but seeing Neo and Trinity reach for each other in the flashback is heartbreaking, and when they finally reach each other in cafe, I got serious chills.
 
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