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Naughty Dog Announces Development Delay on TLoU MP (MP Dev Team 'Significantly Scaled Down,' Bloomberg Reports)

If this is what they were making, no wonder the team got scaled down.
Yea haha. This is fully what I expect from them though. It's the same situation as The Lost Legacy.

They inadvertently go way too hard on every single project they make because they are so proud of their reputation and always want to take the next step above their previous endeavors.

Sony was probably like, "Jesus ND wtf are you doing? We said make a live service game not a heavily narrative driven, co-op, pvp adventure game.". Lmao
 
Don't be obtuse.

Why should an echo chamber opinion (SP = "good" / MP = "bad") matter? Is it objective somewhat? Are you some sort of committee that decides what gets done or not?

The truth is, GaaS is a very broad term that encompasses many genres. GaaS is like a living organism, a game that evolves with multiple updates/new content.

Even the last Assassin's Creed games (yes, they're AAA) are considered GaaS. Even No Man's Sky is GaaS.

Educate yourself (your words, not mine). I can be passive aggressive too. See? It's not that hard. What's hard is bringing actual evidence to the table (like I did) and not constantly moving the goalposts (like you do).

Have you ever played ND MP games? Because if you did, you would have known they're chock full of predatory MTX (including weapons in TLOU1).

Again you're being obtuse.

If you want to define Live Service gamed that way, every fucking AAA game with post release DLC is a Live Service game.

Therefore Sony's projection to make 40% conventional and 60% Live Service games by 2025 becomes fucking meaningless.

No-one in the industry is defining Live Service games the way you are anymore. Not developers. Not the media. Not publishers.

Regardless, this whole fucking inane debate is just a tangential argument about semantics. I don't fucking care how you insist on defining GaaS.

Sony didn't spend $3bn on Bungie just for Destiny. They wanted their expertise in making large in scope, continually evolving, Live Service games that are frequently updated with regular content updates into perpetuity.

That isn't something ND has ever done. I care how you want to try to argue it.

It's the scope of frequent content updates that makes the difference between a AAA game with post-release DLC and a continually evolving Live Service game like Destiny. Trying to equivocate the two only muddies the discussion.
 

th4tguy

Member
I bet this started as a traditional mp mode similar to what we got in their past games and midway through development Sony stepped in and made them transition to a live service format.
ND is not new to mp modes. Only a shift in direction of the project to live service would explain this kind of struggle.
 
I've never played ND MP games, therefore I'm being obtuse/ignorant.
Thanks for showing me your ignorance on the subject, since you refused to address my points here:


ND had 1 million players back in 2011, on a "failed" console (PS3). Can you imagine how more successful they would have been on PS5? Again: not with an MMO/BR formula (stop being obsessed about that, that's not the ONLY way to deliver a GaaS).

Did you know that UC3 MP got 3 years of constant updates (the very definition of GaaS)? Not just new wacky skins (like Fortnite, but years before Fortnite was even released!), but also new maps, new modes, seasonal events etc. But you never played it, so how would you know, eh?

I proposed how Sony can make more with less. They can take existing, beloved, abandoned IPs (Uncharted, Killzone, Driveclub) and deliver on all fronts (TPS, FPS, racing). 3 very popular genres to rule them all.

You don't even acknowledge the fact that the VG industry these days seems to be hugely nostalgia-driven, otherwise we wouldn't see so many remasters/remakes of old and beloved IPs (Silent Hill, Metal Gear Solid, multiple Resident Evil games).

You praise Bungie so much, even though Destiny is not what it used to be (D1 was a success, unlike D2). Besides that, you have to realize that not everyone likes MMO looter shooters with heavy RPG mechanics.

Some people like linear/arena shooters with less/non-existent RPG stuff. Sony could fill that niche and call it day. There is NO need at all to "invent" the next Fortnite/Apex. The BR market is saturated, so it makes perfect sense to cancel Factions 2.

TL;DR:

Remaster Uncharted 3 MP for TPS fans.

Remaster Killzone 2 MP for FPS fans (bonus: zero input lag). Hell, they will need it if MS takes Call of Duty for themselves!

Reboot Driveclub and make it a Forza Horizon alternative (open-world racing for PlayStation).

All these MP projects should be PS4/5 cross-gen if they want to maximize their profits. PS4 could offer 1080p 60 fps, while PS5 could go all the way up to 4K/120 fps.

But NOOOOOOO, Jim Ryan feels compelled to chase the MMO/BR bandwagon!

And he will waste billions of dollars on that futile endeavor, all while making everyone hate GaaS games (both SP and MP fans).

Which solution would you prefer? I proposed something more cost-effective.

You have to realize that Bungie is heavily MMO-driven. Not every game has to be an MMO. Try to cater to different/diverse tastes too, otherwise you risk losing customers (that supported you during the tumultuous PS3 era).
 
Thanks for showing me your ignorance on the subject, since you refused to address my points here:


ND had 1 million players back in 2011, on a "failed" console (PS3). Can you imagine how more successful they would have been on PS5? Again: not with an MMO/BR formula (stop being obsessed about that, that's not the ONLY way to deliver a GaaS).

Did you know that UC3 MP got 3 years of constant updates (the very definition of GaaS)? Not just new wacky skins (like Fortnite, but years before Fortnite was even released!), but also new maps, new modes, seasonal events etc. But you never played it, so how would you know, eh?

I proposed how Sony can make more with less. They can take existing, beloved, abandoned IPs (Uncharted, Killzone, Driveclub) and deliver on all fronts (TPS, FPS, racing). 3 very popular genres to rule them all.

You don't even acknowledge the fact that the VG industry these days seems to be hugely nostalgia-driven, otherwise we wouldn't see so many remasters/remakes of old and beloved IPs (Silent Hill, Metal Gear Solid, multiple Resident Evil games).

You praise Bungie so much, even though Destiny is not what it used to be (D1 was a success, unlike D2). Besides that, you have to realize that not everyone likes MMO looter shooters with heavy RPG mechanics.

Some people like linear/arena shooters with less/non-existent RPG stuff. Sony could fill that niche and call it day. There is NO need at all to "invent" the next Fortnite/Apex. The BR market is saturated, so it makes perfect sense to cancel Factions 2.

TL;DR:

Remaster Uncharted 3 MP for TPS fans.

Remaster Killzone 2 MP for FPS fans (bonus: zero input lag). Hell, they will need it if MS takes Call of Duty for themselves!

Reboot Driveclub and make it a Forza Horizon alternative (open-world racing for PlayStation).

All these MP projects should be PS4/5 cross-gen if they want to maximize their profits. PS4 could offer 1080p 60 fps, while PS5 could go all the way up to 4K/120 fps.

But NOOOOOOO, Jim Ryan feels compelled to chase the MMO/BR bandwagon!

And he will waste billions of dollars on that futile endeavor, all while making everyone hate GaaS games (both SP and MP fans).

Which solution would you prefer? I proposed something more cost-effective.

You have to realize that Bungie is heavily MMO-driven. Not every game has to be an MMO. Try to cater to different/diverse tastes too, otherwise you risk losing customers (that supported you during the tumultuous PS3 era).
The fact you call Destiny an MMO shows pretty clearly who is obtuse and ignorant.

We're done with this meaningless shitty tangential, circular argument.
 
Honestly the only good thing to come out of this is that ND confirming they're working on a brand new IP.

Refreshing to finally get something which is not TLOU or Uncharted related.
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
The more time passes the worse this tastes. Grab your most talented studio who has created Jak and Daxter, Uncharted, The Last of Us and put them to work on a gaas game none of its fans have been begging for. Now it’s in development hell and ND will put maybe one game out this gen. Great job Sony great job.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
The more time passes the worse this tastes. Grab your most talented studio who has created Jak and Daxter, Uncharted, The Last of Us and put them to work on a gaas game none of its fans have been begging for. Now it’s in development hell and ND will put maybe one game out this gen. Great job Sony great job.

Eh, I really doubt that ND, considering their stature within the company, is doing anything that they don't want to do. If anything Sony is the one telling them the game isn't coming along and they need to refocus their efforts. ND should have released a basic Factions mode in TLOU2 and expanded it over time, like what Sucker Punch did in Ghosts, but, you know, the studio is run by arrogant people let's be real.
 
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I was fully expecting Factions to be something aching to the Division or similar to the Day Before maybe I should scale back my expectations or better yet Naughty Dog should actually tell us what it's about or show a trailer, they've really mishandled this game from a PR perspective hopefully it's not in development hell because the devs still sound pretty confident on twitter idk man and I can't be too upset about Naughty Dogs output because their last big AAA game was barely 3 years ago I don't even count Part 1. At this point they might as well launch whatever it is they're working on alongside the Pro that'll be 4 years since their last output which would actually be impressive
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The more time passes the worse this tastes. Grab your most talented studio who has created Jak and Daxter, Uncharted, The Last of Us and put them to work on a gaas game none of its fans have been begging for. Now it’s in development hell and ND will put maybe one game out this gen. Great job Sony great job.

I think the fact that ND took over TLoU Part 1 mid-development from the other studio that was developing it also contributed to Faction's state right now.
 

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Honestly the only good thing to come out of this is that ND confirming they're working on a brand new IP.

Refreshing to finally get something which is not TLOU or Uncharted related.
They didnt confirm that. They said they're working on a new single player experience. That could be TLOU 3 or a New IP.
 

Gambit2483

Member
I was fully expecting Factions to be something aching to the Division or similar to the Day Before maybe I should scale back my expectations or better yet Naughty Dog should actually tell us what it's about or show a trailer, they've really mishandled this game from a PR perspective hopefully it's not in development hell because the devs still sound pretty confident on twitter idk man and I can't be too upset about Naughty Dogs output because their last big AAA game was barely 3 years ago I don't even count Part 1. At this point they might as well launch whatever it is they're working on alongside the Pro that'll be 4 years since their last output which would actually be impressive

The game is dead. They just don't want to come out with it until they have something new to show, to soften the blow.

This fucking corporate greed and monetization bullshit is getting out of hand and will eventually lead to the collapse of Western game development. They've already damn near killed Overwatch as a healthy brand with this shit. Consumers only have so much time and money to spend. We need LESS GAAS, not more.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Imagine being at Naughty Dog for years, being Sonys golden child...Then Sony buy Bungie and they walk in and pull the rug from under your feet. I am sure that's great for morale....then you get pulled off this project and probably onto Last of us 3...Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of staff leave.

Also, it's not like Bungie know how to make a successful Gaas game...They literally had to sell themselves to Sony because Destiny wasn't sustainable.
 
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sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
Imagine being at Naughty Dog for years, being Sonys golden child...Then Sony buy Bungie and they walk in and pull the rug from under your feet. I am sure that's great for morale....then you get pulled off this project and probably onto Last of us 3...Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of staff leave.

Also, it's not like Bungie know how to make a successful Gaas game...They literally had to sell themselves to Sony because Destiny wasn't sustainable.
How can a game that resells the same content again and again not be sustainable and profitable?
I can't access content on the Destiny 2 Disc I bought on release, would have to buy that stuff again ... They must swim in money.
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
Imagine being at Naughty Dog for years, being Sonys golden child...Then Sony buy Bungie and they walk in and pull the rug from under your feet. I am sure that's great for morale....then you get pulled off this project and probably onto Last of us 3...Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of staff leave.

Also, it's not like Bungie know how to make a successful Gaas game...They literally had to sell themselves to Sony because Destiny wasn't sustainable.

The staff that was working on the MP game? Already happened. Nice bit of “concern” though.

Destiny wasn’t sustainable? You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Bungie don’t know how to make a successful gaas game?

Troll harder next time
 
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Pelta88

Member
Imagine being at Naughty Dog for years, being Sonys golden child...Then Sony buy Bungie and they walk in and pull the rug from under your feet. I am sure that's great for morale....then you get pulled off this project and probably onto Last of us 3...Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of staff leave.

Also, it's not like Bungie know how to make a successful Gaas game...They literally had to sell themselves to Sony because Destiny wasn't sustainable.

Cool story bro.
 

blastprocessor

The Amiga Brotherhood
I played Destiny 2 (for free) and never quite got it. I got to a point where l guess l had to pay. If that's the future I'm out.
 

tmlDan

Member
Imagine being at Naughty Dog for years, being Sonys golden child...Then Sony buy Bungie and they walk in and pull the rug from under your feet. I am sure that's great for morale....then you get pulled off this project and probably onto Last of us 3...Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of staff leave.

Also, it's not like Bungie know how to make a successful Gaas game...They literally had to sell themselves to Sony because Destiny wasn't sustainable.
wtf are you even saying
 
Am I the only one who remembers the TLoU 2 leaks (pre release, entire game leaked, 100% legit), and that a huge amount of Devs quit due to Druckmann's trash treatment and finally getting the TLoU 2 release bonus?

ND hasn't developed anything at all since that, the only thing they managed was to change fps_cap = 30 to fps_cap = 60 for PS5 in one year. And TLoU 2 multiplayer was in the leaks, it was being worked on pre release and was far along. But hey, when you don't have competent employees anymore..

ND died with Druckmann. No DLC, nothing from them ever since. But hey, he hanged out on the set of a TV show for a product that wasn't written by him. (TLoU 1, the good one in writing)
 
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The Alien

Banned
What was probably going to be a fun MP mode or addition to the single player is now kaput because it wouldn't cut it as a GaaS? Not everything is gonna be Fortnite outta the gate.

Also crazy that Bungie, with Sony less than a year, is rejecting one of Sony's best, long standing studios efforts.

The game is likely done or put out to pasture. The game won't get better with LESS people working on it.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
How can a game that resells the same content again and again not be sustainable and profitable?
I can't access content on the Destiny 2 Disc I bought on release, would have to buy that stuff again ... They must swim in money.

The staff that was working on the MP game? Already happened. Nice bit of “concern” though.

Destiny wasn’t sustainable? You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Bungie don’t know how to make a successful gaas game?

Troll harder next time

Why are you guys so hurt...You honestly think, BUNGIE who has done nothing but talk about how they want to be independent would sell them selves to Sony if they were swimming in cash from Destiny?
It doesn't take a genius to see, at all.
I'm surprised you guys have taken my post so offensively when I think its pretty reasonable to think. I would be pissed as fuck if my company bought some other company then they came in and told me how to do my job...

Can you guys not see that at all?

Do you think Activision would have let them break off if Destiny made Bank?
Activision saw the ROI and jumped ship ASAP.

Bungie then lasted a few years on their own and sold......

Just look at the facts of it....
 
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Gambit2483

Member
Sorry guys, devs are not robot's. They won't be able to make your toys fast.
i5l0EBD.gif


This is about Bungie putting the Kibosh on what could've been a great MP game because "Make MOAR Monies".

Not development time.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
Why are you guys so hurt...You honestly think, BUNGIE who has done nothing but talk about how they want to be independent would sell them selves to Sony if they were swimming in cash from Destiny?
It doesn't take a genius to see, at all.
I'm surprised you guys have taken my post so offensively when I think its pretty reasonable to think. I would be pissed as fuck if my company bought some other company then they came in and told me how to do my job...

Can you guys not see that at all?

Do you think Activision would have let them break off if Destiny made Bank?
Activision saw the ROI and jumped ship ASAP.

Bungie then lasted a few years on their own and sold......

Just look at the facts of it....
I actually trashed Bungie in my post. Lol.
Still they make money, these fucktards.

You would also sell to Sony when it meant you could become a billionaire on the spot and continue working there for the fun of it.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Am I the only one who remembers the TLoU 2 leaks (pre release, entire game leaked, 100% legit), and that a huge amount of Devs quit due to Druckmann's trash treatment and finally getting the TLoU 2 release bonus?

ND hasn't developed anything at all since that, the only thing they managed was to change fps_cap = 30 to fps_cap = 60 for PS5 in one year. And TLoU 2 multiplayer was in the leaks, it was being worked on pre release and was far along. But hey, when you don't have competent employees anymore..

ND died with Druckmann. No DLC, nothing from them ever since. But hey, he hanged out on the set of a TV show for a product that wasn't written by him. (TLoU 1, the good one in writing)
The plot leaks were fake.
They were forced to complete TLOU Remake after VAS failed to finish it themselves.
The Multiplayer wasn't far along as shown in the leaks.
They're currently working on 3 projects and it takes years to finish these games. It's only been just about 3 years since TLOU 2 finished development and TLOU MP was probably going to be released within the next year before this most recent setback.

Game development takes time. It doesn't happen overnight.
 
The plot leaks were fake.
They were forced to complete TLOU Remake after VAS failed to finish it themselves.
The Multiplayer wasn't far along as shown in the leaks.
They're currently working on 3 projects and it takes years to finish these games. It's only been just about 3 years since TLOU 2 finished development and TLOU MP was probably going to be released within the next year before this most recent setback.

Game development takes time. It doesn't happen overnight.
...I saw the plot leaks. They were just the scenes from the game, nothing fake about them? Including the ending, everything? Did you not look at them and take someone else's word for it lol? So yeah, the rest of this just reads like more apologies for nothing to show.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
...I saw the plot leaks. They were just the scenes from the game, nothing fake about them? Including the ending, everything? Did you not look at them and take someone else's word for it lol? So yeah, the rest of this just reads like more apologies for nothing to show.
The cutscenes aren't the plot leaks. Plot leaks consist of actual details of the story. The ending was never leaked until someone got actual copies of the game. Before the game was released, people thought Ellie died and the fight with Abby was the final fight. This is why people believed the 4chan plot leaks. No, I didn't take someone else word for it because I actually knew what happened.

No, they're not apologies you literally can't dispute anything I just said. Games take years to finish.

Where's the new game from Sucker Punch? Ghost of Tsushima was released a month after The Last of Us. Bend's new IP? Horizon Zero Dawn was completed in 2017 and the Horizon Forbidden West was released in 2022. That's 5 years. God of War Ragnarok took just over 4 years.
 


Colin spot on here. The issue is that Sony are looking for these games to last "forever". Nothing about the leak says the game is bad just there is concerns it won't hold playerbase. Personally I'd rather play a top tier multiplayer game that doesn't last forever than a game like Fortnite.

It's a stupid goal if that's the main requirement and one that'll actually hinder vision imo. I'd rather Naughty Dog release their vision for the game to be honest.

Not all these games need to have the same goal but looks like Sonys decisions are driven Purley on hitting the GAAS jackpot.

Hopefully the fact Naugthy Dog is such a top studio they get to release it their way.
 
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