• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Naughty Dog needs to Pioneer

One of the things I've always liked about Naughty Dog is that they've continued to push the envelope.

Every generation, they've pushed things further by doing what wasn't capable on the previous generation.

You couldn't do Jak and Daxter on PS1, that massive world with no load time within the world. You couldn't do Uncharted (especially 2) on PS2. Way too much action happening at once and then TLOU really pushed the PS3 to its limits.

On PS4 things kind of just changed and so did the whole industry. The PS4 was about making more polished PS3 games, rather than games that couldn't be done on PS3. Uncharted 4 and TLOU 2 are extremely polished PS4 games, but I'd really like to see Naughty Dog go into a different direction with the PS5.

So far their efforts remind me of TLOU Remastered, which is fine, but their next game being a MP game leaves me hard-pressed to believe this will be the pioneering game though they've never done a standalone MP game before, so maybe this is a good opportunity for them to maybe not pioneer, but diversify themselves.

I'm more interested to see what Neil is working on. I firmly believe Neil and Cory's next games are what will help define Sony for the start of the PS5 generation.
 
I agree, and I hope the problems with last gen is because the hardware wasn’t that much more powerful in regards to the gen that came before, at least in regards to the CPU. Games on the 360/PS3 gen and PC of that era seemed to push physics and open worlds, and then it was almost as if those ideas were scrapped in favor of bigger and more detailed worlds that were static and devoid of character. RDR2 for all its glory is built upon a totally static environment you really can’t interact with outside of scripted events designed to make you think you’re in a dynamic environment.

Anyway, yeah man I really hope ND has something special planned this gen.
 

DJ12

Member
Ultimately, there's minimal difference between generations now off the shelf PC parts are the starting blocks.

Until there's a major jump I think all we'll get from anyone is more of the same only better looking.
 
Naughty dog has the talent. Wish they can produce an RPG game with their quality.

So far, we only have Bethesda who fills that role.

I think they need to just focus on building bigger worlds and different genres and as they build out their teams, allow for newer teams to focus on old IP.

They used to give up on IP for one reason or another and now the IP is too big to fail. It threatens to hold them back.

Would love to see them tackle in rpg in the vein of Cyberpunk or the Witcher or maybe something like Mass Effect.

Honestly a sci fi rpg with gameplay elements from uncharted and the last of us would be right up my alley.
 
Ultimately, there's minimal difference between generations now off the shelf PC parts are the starting blocks.

Until there's a major jump I think all we'll get from anyone is more of the same only better looking.

I don't think that's a technical limitation as much as it is a creative limitation and a degree of laziness and adhering to formula.

Even with God of War Ragnarok trying to be open worldy, it was still a pretty linear shallow adventure game. They could have really built out the realms and made each one feel lived in, but they didn't do that.
 

Woggleman

Member
TLOU is one my favorite franchises but they need to take the combat stuff they did in TLOU2 and truly make something else that will blow people's minds.
 

Bartski

Gold Member
The motion matching in TLOU2 was really something else. No one is doing it and every shooter feels stale in comparison to TLOU2.
Which is rather weird as this tech is nothing new, and yet somehow it's nowhere to be seen actually being used to such great effect.
I hope things change when the current gen only development in UE5 becomes the baseline
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Imo tlou2 pioneered amazing story telling. And it’s using the player to tell the story. They make you angry, they make you care.
I am sure they will make something completely new soon too
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
The motion matching in TLOU2 was really something else. No one is doing it and every shooter feels stale in comparison to TLOU2.

But yes, its been 2 years since TLOU2. TLOU didnt feel like an ND game. way too unambitious. ND needs to get going.
Which is rather weird as this tech is nothing new, and yet somehow it's nowhere to be seen actually being used to such great effect.
I hope things change when the current gen only development in UE5 becomes the baseline

Ubisoft pioneered Motion Matching.

Its just up to budgets and time why other studios cant use it as readily or as effectively.
You'd still need a massive pool of animations whether mocap'd or keyframed for motion matching to work well.
Not many studios actually have that sort of time and money to make that pool.

Hopefully Ubisoft keeps developing their learned motion matching solution and encourages more studios to either license that solution(assuming ubisoft would be willing) or work on getting their own version of learned motion matching.
 

Bartski

Gold Member
Ubisoft pioneered Motion Matching.

Its just up to budgets and time why other studios cant use it as readily or as effectively.
You'd still need a massive pool of animations whether mocap'd or keyframed for motion matching to work well.
Not many studios actually have that sort of time and money to make that pool.

Hopefully Ubisoft keeps developing their learned motion matching solution and encourages more studios to either license that solution(assuming ubisoft would be willing) or work on getting their own version of learned motion matching.
Ubisoft pioneered it and never actually used it in a released game, at least since the article I linked was published.
 

nowhat

Member
Ubisoft pioneered it and never actually used it in a released game, at least since the article I linked was published.
Wasn't motion matching used in For Honor, at least to some extent? But yeah, Naughty Dog took the concept (which is completely fair game, GDC talks are for the industry to improve as a whole) and ran with it. Say what you will of TLoU 2 but the animation blending is sublime.
 

Bartski

Gold Member
Wasn't motion matching used in For Honor, at least to some extent? But yeah, Naughty Dog took the concept (which is completely fair game, GDC talks are for the industry to improve as a whole) and ran with it. Say what you will of TLoU 2 but the animation blending is sublime.
not sure about For Honor, but certainly not in Valhalla, or FC6.
 

Bartski

Gold Member
For Honor 2017?
So they used it 5 years ago once and then they ditched it? Not the type of pioneering I'd hope for. I'm not an expert on Ubisoft games but nothing they put in years even remotely moves like that.
Or if their version is indeed in use that would mean it's shit. Maybe AC:Mirage will make a leap
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
So they used it 5 years ago once and then they ditched it? Not the type of pioneering I'd hope for. I'm not an expert on Ubisoft games but nothing they put in years even remotely moves like that.
Or if their version is indeed in use that would mean it's shit. Maybe AC:Mirage will make a leap
Its also used for most NPCs in bunch of their open world games. (dont make me have to start doing a credits check).
Its obviously not pulling from a data pool as large as TLOU2 which has a countable number of NPCs and main characters active at any one time.
When For Honor came out that shit was mindblowing, obviously Ubisoft being the size of a small country not every game/studio is going to use every bit of tech their Forge team invents, but it doesnt detract from the fact they were the pioneers of that tech.

And theyve just invented Learned Motion Matching which doesnt require as large a data pool and uses much less memory so they are much more likely to use it in more games now.
 

Paulxo87

Member
they're wasting their time with this multiplayer game. one can only hope they are able to work on two games at once and that they already did not blow this load with their surprise part 1 remaster! otherwise it will be a long wait for the next real game/new ip!
 

Bartski

Gold Member
(dont make me have to start doing a credits check).
do it GIF


Or seriously now, if it is used for NPCs it's piss poor. Like I said I'm actually looking forward to seeing it work in Mirage but at this point, we're derailing the thread.

As for ND, I'll be happy if they pull P1/P2 quality at a much larger scale in TLOU online, Seattle day 1 type maps with hordes of infected. Their next single-player project will be where we see the true power of this gen.
 

sainraja

Member
One of the things I've always liked about Naughty Dog is that they've continued to push the envelope.

Every generation, they've pushed things further by doing what wasn't capable on the previous generation.

You couldn't do Jak and Daxter on PS1, that massive world with no load time within the world. You couldn't do Uncharted (especially 2) on PS2. Way too much action happening at once and then TLOU really pushed the PS3 to its limits.

On PS4 things kind of just changed and so did the whole industry. The PS4 was about making more polished PS3 games, rather than games that couldn't be done on PS3. Uncharted 4 and TLOU 2 are extremely polished PS4 games, but I'd really like to see Naughty Dog go into a different direction with the PS5.

So far their efforts remind me of TLOU Remastered, which is fine, but their next game being a MP game leaves me hard-pressed to believe this will be the pioneering game though they've never done a standalone MP game before, so maybe this is a good opportunity for them to maybe not pioneer, but diversify themselves.

I'm more interested to see what Neil is working on. I firmly believe Neil and Cory's next games are what will help define Sony for the start of the PS5 generation.
Uh....Uncharted first came out on the PS3. Not PS2.
 
Last edited:

Jaybe

Member
I’d like to see what the extraordinary technical talent of ND could produce if they made a game that was 100% focused on game play versus the added bloat introduced in trying to be an interactive TV Series. It won’t happen under Neil’s watch.
 
I want to see them do something completely different. Maybe an RPG and full open world? I know, I know, another open world game but imagine an open world game with naughty dog level visuals.
 

Woggleman

Member
They need to some kind of Cyberpunk futuristic game with TLOU2 combat. I understand why the weapons were limited since it is a world where resources are scarce but imagine that kind of combat and gameplay in a world where anything is possible.
 
Top Bottom