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Neil Druckmann on TLOU Part 3: "I think there's more story to tell."

DinoD

Member
They must bring Joel back.
Let the part III be in the timeline before Joel met that spoiled brat, Ellie.
 

GymWolf

Member
Let me play Tommy . Man loses everything and goes in a serial rampage to get Abby.

At no point do I play anyone else unless maybe it’s Ellie for a small window.

JusticeForJoel

Otherwise completely new character, and not an apex predator giga chad steroid bitch shaped like a fridge.
Tommy is a piece of shit or just a badly written character.

He doesn't want ellie to go after the mlb at the start of the game when she has nothing to lose, but when abby fuck him up he is eager to send ellie into a possible death when she has a fucking wife and child.
He doesn't really care about avenging joel, he send ellie out because now his life is ruined.

Fuck him and his bipolarism.
 
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mxbison

Member
Nah, I loved Tlou 1 & 2 but that story is done.

They should go with new characters if they make another one.
 
I’m excited for a third. I didn’t think I’d like the sequel more than the first, but playing the recent remake sealed the deal. I, for one, would be interested in seeing an older Ellie and whatever hell they have her go through, again.
 

Azurro

Banned
Of course there is more story to tell, ND needs to introduce the first trans racial person, as well as the first trans able person and make them the protagonists.

Ellie is already a man in character in TLOU2, so as an evolution of her character, she should talk all game about her upcoming top surgery to complete her trans sexual transition.

As for Abbie, I want a happy ending for her, at the end of the second game she finds a new gym with a new supply of PEDs and a whole lot of protein shakes and lifts into the sunset, every time with tears on her cheek on how she's stronger than any man.
 
I think the story ended in a way that worked well within Part 2. I’m not really interested in more of Ellie’s or Abby’s story because it ended how it did and in my opinion there’s nothing more to say about it.

There’s a risk or just retreading old ground by revisiting it and I don’t see how it could end up being any good. Leave it as it is and do something different now.
 
I hope they go full open world this time. Days Gone gave me more of what I wanted than TLoU did. That and have a bit more subtlety to storytelling than what he was going for in 2. Shockingly I also hope to see more of Abby. Went in annoyed to have to play her to hating to have to go back to Ellie. Maybe concluding things with really finishing what they originally started in the first game.
No thanks, we don’t need more open world games.
 

Thaedolus

Member
I really hope it’s not punished Ellie trying to keep the younger generation from repeating her mistakes or something cliche like that. I’d much prefer a prequel starring Joel and Tommy or…yes I’m gonna say it…more of Abbey and Lev and the search for steroid burritos.
 

FeastYoEyes

Member
The only way I could see another game is if they did a game from Joel's perspective leading up to his death. I feel like the glimpses they gave of Joel and Ellie's life after the original in Part 2 were the best parts of the game and I feel like they could do more with that. I'm kinda done with Ellie and don't really have much interest in where they go after the end of Part 2 though.
 
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Madflavor

Member
Was there any doubt? Would've been surprising if the story just ended with TLOU2. Ellie's life is shit, continues to be shit, loses a loved one, loses her humanity, life gets shittier, fucks up her life even more, loses everything and then the game just sorta ends. So the moral of the story is:


On the other hand would also be kinda nice if it did end with Part 2 so we can eventually move on, but there was no chance of that happening. The story was finished with Part 1, but they made a sequel anyway.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
But Shakespeare is trash! XD

Jokes aside, I do agree with you. It doesn't help that the game was beyond hyped and you see people here still hyping it up as the greatest story in gaming, let alone during its launch where everywhere you looked it was being claimed as such by social and mainstream medium outlets. Only to actually end up playing it and... getting something completely different. Rather sours the whole experience.

Either way, I do hope the MP game is as good as it sounds. The concept of exploring wide open areas, crafting weapons, stealthing your way through regions with simple controls, but having unpredictable players instead of easily abuseable AI? That can create a lot of unique personal stories and narratives if we can also create our own characters and have a more simple/generic story that we can imprint onto.
You know, you make a good point. I am kind of going through that with Elden Ring right now. I am LTTP (on purpose), I always let the dust settle and many patches ensue in Souls games before I jump in. Been a rule of thumb for me...

But with that said, while the gameplay is familiar and some nice refinements made to it, the hype on the open world, etc? To be blunt, this shit feels no different than any MMO one has been brought up on and played since their 3D inception. From Everquest to Vanguard, hell, even Skyrim as a single player RPG. In fact, with the minimal (no quest log) features, which I am okay with (I dig old school pen and paper logging), it almost feels like an MMO in beta early stages in those respects (like when I alpha and beta tested Vanguard or Dark and Light), before QoL gets added over the course of it's life. A lot of the beat to beat moments in the open world are damned near identical to an MMO or other single player RPGs that came before it. I am liking it, they craft worlds and Lore I enjoy, but the way people hyped on it, it was like, "have you ever played any of those MMOs or open world RPGs prior to this one?"

Not necessarily disappointed in ER's open world, I like what they crafted, it has its hooks in me, but was expecting the revolutionary revelation like the hype pushed, and I am currently experiencing the "been there done that" feeling the entire time.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I remain baffled that they couldn’t be bothered to have us spend any time with Abby, before they had her murder the character everybody loved... but then try to build that empathy after she’d already committed such a heinous act. What the hell were they thinking?

Strikes me that Druckman thinks he can do what he likes, and his talent with always bring people along, no matter what he does. This is clearly not the case.
It would not have the same emotional impact for the player if done the other way. It is supposed to anger you, then anger you even more that you have to use her, then over time, you grow sympathy and understanding as to why she did what she did. Then sort of a fondness for her, in a way, but not necessarily forgiveness.

It seems they wanted to have you:

Anger > Resentment > Indifferent > Understanding > Sympathy > Compassion
 

BbMajor7th

Member
I enjoyed TLOU2 well enough as an unintentional allegory for class warfare, but it was way too long. The gameplay might have been polished to a mirror shine, but it was too limited and repetitive even for it's own length, never mind for a whole other game. Unless they really shake up the formula, I don't think I'd be up for another instalment.
 

Bartski

Gold Member
He had an argument with some users in this thread and then requested a perm.
Jack Nicholson Ugh GIF
 
In Part 3, it turns out the cure to the fungus also cures golf club whacks to the head. Joel comes back from his injury even stronger than before, like the kid in Rookie of the Year, and throws Abby headfirst into Tommy's hydroelectric dam turbine.
 

Roni

Gold Member
Yeah I agree, I'd be more interested in a prequel for Joel and his brother surrounding the incident that left them astranged or doing runs with Tess. At this point what on Earth could they really offer?
there's definitely money on the table for a prequel series
 
Hopefully this will take place 20ish years in the future and we play as Dina’s kid.

Or we see the perspective of an entirely different and unrelated group in a different country during the same Joel and Ellie timeline.

I just want to see expanded lore at this point and that means letting go of the past crew. Starting fresh is the best way to avoid discussions and arguments about past characters.
 

Neff

Member
She doesn't seem to care at all about the vaccine, why Joel did what he did, the world at large, or anything but herself. It would work better if she actually displayed regret and guilt for what she did to Joel instead of just mild dissatisfaction.

All of this would make sense if Joel hadn't killed her dad and essentially destroyed her way of life and that of her friends.

This extends to her relationship with Yara and Lev. There's really no solid reason as to why she decides to devote herself to them.

She's following Owen's lead after he gets disillusioned with the WLF and the war, which makes sense because he means an awful lot to her. Not quite the same conditions but the motive is there. Owen is the only one she sees as someone to be completely trusted, if not moreso than Joel/Tess' relationship. She'll follow him over the WLF.

The stuff she did in 2 was so fucked up, I can't even imagine how she could redeem herself.

Her ending in 2 is perfect. I don't see how there's much more story to be told from Ellie's perspective.
 
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zkorejo

Member
He secretly means "there's more money to be made".

Already ruined the first game... Who cares at this point. Make 5 more with shit stories for all I care.
 
It would not have the same emotional impact for the player if done the other way. It is supposed to anger you, then anger you even more that you have to use her, then over time, you grow sympathy and understanding as to why she did what she did. Then sort of a fondness for her, in a way, but not necessarily forgiveness.

It seems they wanted to have you:

Anger > Resentment > Indifferent > Understanding > Sympathy > Compassion
see, it's exactly this kind of overt, calculated emotional button-pushing that completely killed tlou2 for me. i never noticed it in tlou. i never stopped noticing it in tlou2. the game's entire narrative exists in the service of it. this isn't 'mature story-telling'. it's simply emotional manipulation...
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
see, it's exactly this kind of overt, calculated emotional button-pushing that completely killed tlou2 for me. i never noticed it in tlou. i never stopped noticing it in tlou2. the game's entire narrative exists in the service of it. this isn't 'mature story-telling'. it's simply emotional manipulation...
I can agree with this. Seems par for the course in a lot of story telling mediums from these creative types lately.
 
I wouldn't mind a story about elder Ellie raising her non-biological kid, now a teenager. Ties back to themes of Pt 1 nicely, imo.
A part of me just wants it to be the child having an intro arc of looking for Ellie and finding a corpse with a notebook instead. Then the real game begins as you listen to journal entries in Ellie's voice over the course of the game. This will really nail home that they're letting go of the past, so we can move past all of the crap(including the fans still being upset at part 2).
 
I think it'd be interesting if they made a game about Joel and that woman he was running around with before he met Ellie. I forget her name. I'd like to see more of that guy Bill too because there was a history between them.
For sure; In Part 1, they don't explicitly say what all Tess and Joel got up to, but it's heavily implied to be bad new bears, like when they beat and cold-blood murder ponytail guy over a business deal in the opening minutes
 
I can agree with this. Seems par for the course in a lot of story telling mediums from these creative types lately.
not really sure how how 'mature story-telling' ended up becoming defined as 'giving the audience feels'. there's nothing 'mature' about having feelings. i mean, children cry...

then again, maybe that's really all that's going on - maybe, while being flattered into believing just how 'mature' we've become, we're simply being treated as children?...
 

BbMajor7th

Member
see, it's exactly this kind of overt, calculated emotional button-pushing that completely killed tlou2 for me. i never noticed it in tlou. i never stopped noticing it in tlou2. the game's entire narrative exists in the service of it. this isn't 'mature story-telling'. it's simply emotional manipulation...
Yeah, I have to agree - I think the intention was to present flawed characters, that can be understandable and even sympathetic, if not wholly redeemable. The issue is that it's all too cumbersome and too clearly telegraphed, particularly with Abby. They're so heavily focused on managing the arks for the two main characters, that all the supporting characters just stand around while the bodies pile up and be like 'this is fine, I'm with you all the way'.

Then you have characters like 'Lev', who I assume ND included because they felt like it was important to represent marginalised communities (no bad thing), but then he's just there as a prop for the sociopathic, self-entitled white girl to have her character ark and prove that despite all the murdering, she's actually a good person. Which is actually (I think unintentionally), a wonderful piece of social commentary on the kinds of middle-class metropolitan centrists who work in the Western entertainment industry: "Sure my smartphone and soy latte were made possible by slave labour in developing nations, but I respect people's pronouns, so when you think about it, I'm the hero'.
 
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not really sure how how 'mature story-telling' ended up becoming defined as 'giving the audience feels'. there's nothing 'mature' about having feelings. i mean, children cry...

then again, maybe that's really all that's going on - maybe, while being flattered into believing just how 'mature' we've become, we're simply being treated as children?...
I can see where some of the stuff in TLoU could be seen as a shortcut to getting an emotional reaction out of the audience. Talking about the opening with Sarah and the side room with the kids down in the sewer.

It's absolutely effective and in service of the world-building, sure, but like, Steven Spielberg managed to make dinosaurs threatening without having a velociraptor tear through an orphanage.
 
I can see where some of the stuff in TLoU could be seen as a shortcut to getting an emotional reaction out of the audience. Talking about the opening with Sarah and the side room with the kids down in the sewer.

It's absolutely effective and in service of the world-building, sure, but like, Steven Spielberg managed to make dinosaurs threatening without having a velociraptor tear through an orphanage.
yeah, story-telling, by it's very nature, involves manipulation. but it shouldn't, & needn't ever, be as cynically relentless as it is in tlou2...
 
In all honesty, I'd have preferred a reboot instead of a sequel like 100000000000 > 1

A new cast with every iteration, Joel and Ellie story was complete and perfect as it was and I think tlou2 ruined it ( killing Joel in that way, all the woke shit and so on) was heavily unnecessary, even if gameplay is one of the most perfect things (with mgsv) I ever played
 
Yeah, I have to agree - I think the intention was to present flawed characters, that can be understandable and even sympathetic, if not wholly redeemable. The issue is that it's all too cumbersome and too clearly telegraphed, particularly with Abby. They're so heavily focused on managing the arks for the two main characters, that all the supporting characters just stand around while the bodies pile up and be like 'this is fine, I'm with you all the way'.

Then you have characters like 'Lev', who I assume ND included because they felt like it was important to represent marginalised communities (no bad thing), but then he's just there as a prop for the sociopathic, self-entitled white girl to have her character ark and prove that despite all the murdering, she's actually a good person. Which is actually (I think unintentionally), a wonderful piece of social commentary on the kinds of middle-class metropolitan centrists who work in the Western entertainment industry: "Sure my smartphone and soy latte were made possible by slave labour in developing nations, but I respect people's pronouns, so when you think about it, I'm the hero'.
they actually did do 'white savior', didn't they? smh...

as for ellie, you know what the real secret to success behind the classic movie 'death wish' was? no, not charles bronson, tho he's amazing. no, not the script or the camera work, which were both very good. the real secret? the movie was only an hour & a half long! why is this the real secret? because the people behind the movie were bright enough to realize that a protagonist with a single-minded, obsessive fixation on 'revenge', even if played by charles bronson, & written & filmed well, can only be interesting for just so long. because, if extended, it quickly becomes unbelievably wearing/exhausting, not to mention: boring! yes! the very last thing in the world that you'd want your protagonist to become...

unless, of course, you're naughty dog, & manage to convince your audience that hours & hours of tormented ellie's appearing to be 'boring' is actually 'mature story-telling'...
 
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Spaceman292

Banned
All of this would make sense if Joel hadn't killed her dad and essentially destroyed her way of life and that of her friends.



She's following Owen's lead after he gets disillusioned with the WLF and the war, which makes sense because he means an awful lot to her. Not quite the same conditions but the motive is there. Owen is the only one she sees as someone to be completely trusted, if not moreso than Joel/Tess' relationship. She'll follow him over the WLF.



Her ending in 2 is perfect. I don't see how there's much more story to be told from Ellie's perspective.
I wouldn't say it was perfect. Just miserable and pointless.
 
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