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NeoGAF Official SEGA SATURN Community

MikeMyers

Member
Yeah the Sega Saturn has a great sports line up. It did trip somewhat when it comes to NFL games, but it has a really solid line up outside of that.

Cant never decide if I like J. League Striker or Worldwide Soccer 98 better.
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus





Dungeon Master Nexus, a superb 32-bit update to the beloved Atari ST and Commodore Amiga classic, arrived on Sega Saturn in Japan in 1998 to very favorable reviews. Fans of classic dungeon-crawling adventure games, of which Saturn is blessed, will be thrilled to discover this hidden gem, one among a seemingly endless mountain of hidden gems for Sega’s famously doomed console.

The Japanese language barrier will pose a challenge to newcomers, but veterans of the ST/Amiga original should be able to successfully understand the controls and gameplay, where you assemble a team and lead them through a series of dangerous underground dungeons in search of treasure and adventure.

Everything is rendered in 3D polygons, which puts the game ahead of Shining the Holy Ark, Baroque and Dragon Master Silk, all of which use 3D polys for the environment and 2D sprites for monsters. Wizardry: Llylgamyn Saga offers 3D poly dungeons yet switches to a classic static menu screen for battles (owing to its Apple II roots). As you will notice, only one of these titles was ever released in the West, which would prove frustrating to classic dungeon RPGs, that is, if anyone ever knew that such videogames even existed.

Sega Saturn is the great “lost” videogame console. By this, I mean that not only was it misunderstood or overlooked in its time, but was almost entirely ignored, wished away. Diehard fans will not like to hear this, but this machine was dead on arrival before it even launched, as gamers flocked to the exciting, new world of Sony PlayStation. And once Nintendo 64 hype kicked into full gear, once the almighty Super Mario 64 was seen, Saturn was dead and buried.

Frankly, most gamers in the 90s never knew that Saturn even existed. The kids looked at Daytona USA and Virtua Fighter just long enough to declare that Ridge Racer and Battle Arena Toshinden looked better, cementing Sega’s second-class reputation as the “Can’t Doo Three Dee” player once and for all. Even the mighty Virtua Fighter 2, Virtua Cop and Sega Rally Championship were waved away as a fluke, a lucky break by the only three programmers on Earth who could make Saturn work.

Today, we all ought to know better, especially as the vast (and in many areas, vastly superior) Japanese software library proves this console’s true power. Yet even most dedicated Segaphiles continue to parrot the ancient meme, “Can’t Doo Three Dee.” This is nonsensical to anyone who bothers to look. The problem, of course, is that hardly anyone bothered to look.

And so we have a “lost” games system, forever chained to a poor reputation due almost entirely to misinformed gossip (“Sega forgot to put in the 3D chip”) plus a handful of games that failed to live up to the hype. Everybody loves to pile on the original Virtua Fighter for its glitchy graphics, yet when it comes to the vastly superior Virtua Fighter Remix, a game that looks and plays better than either Toshinden or Tekken? Nothing. Nada. Crickets.

The Meme is everything. The Meme is all. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, his zigzag triangles, his polygon seams and his shoddy frame rates (I’m looking at you, Nintendo 64). Just point back to those Virtua Fighter dropouts and Daytona pop-ins, repeat the mantra, ignore all else.

For those willing to look, here’s Dungeon Master Nexus on Sega Saturn. It looks terrific, plays great (if a bit slow), and deserves an audience. Let’s hope the fansub community can translate this title so everyone can discover its charms.
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus



Here is an excellent video overview of Data East’s Side Pocket 3, a Japanese Saturn from 1997. This entry in the popular pool/billiards sim features 3D polygon visuals, a story mode where square off against rival players…and does this look just like that mansion from Resident Evil? There is also a robust trick shot mode where you can design your own puzzles.

All in all, a very solid presentation that Saturn owners will be happy to show off. It was also released on PlayStation and both versions look identical. Saturn version might run more smoothly, but I’ve only had YouTube videos to compare, so take with the usual grain of salt.
 
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Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus



If Sega Saturn is beloved for anything today, it’s arcade shoot-em-ups. This console represents the last stand for the venerable genre, which would fall out of fashion as Sony disrupted and transformed the videogame industry. By the end of Generation Five, the very word “arcade” was seen as an insult, a put down, rendered obsolete in the face of modern adventure games like Resident Evil, Tomb Raider, Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy.

Largely because of this, these shooters have a timeless quality to them, like dinosaurs preserved in mud the moment the asteroid smashes the ground. It’s a time capsule to a world forever lost in time.

Diehard fans who lament Sega’s departure from the hardware business and dreams of a “Dreamcast 2” completely miss the point. The company was doomed. I repeat: Sega was doomed. There’s no way the company could have survived the Sony onslaught, to say nothing of Microsoft transforming the PC gaming market and planning their own home console (you knew this was coming the second Windows 95 was announced). They don’t have the money, they don’t control their own manufacturing, and they don’t have any guaranteed blockbuster hits.

Nintendo could release a Pokémon game that’s nothing more than an eight-second animated clip of Pikachu scratching his butt and belching out letters of the alphabet. It would sell 20 million copies immediately. Sega has nothing like this.

T-Rex, meet Mister Space Rock, creator of Trinitron, Walkman, Betamax and DVD.

Enjoy your spaceship shooters, kids. Momento Mori.
 

ACESHIGH

Banned
I am not having any luck trying to run Saturn games on Retroarch. Which is the best emulator and which format do I have to rip the games for them to be recognized once I scan them?
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I am not having any luck trying to run Saturn games on Retroarch. Which is the best emulator and which format do I have to rip the games for them to be recognized once I scan them?
Beetle Saturn in RA. You still need the Saturn bios in the RA system folder as with most cores. Bin/cue is most common for Saturn (whether with multiple Track bin files or just 1).
 
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MikeMyers

Member



If Sega Saturn is beloved for anything today, it’s arcade shoot-em-ups. This console represents the last stand for the venerable genre, which would fall out of fashion as Sony disrupted and transformed the videogame industry. By the end of Generation Five, the very word “arcade” was seen as an insult, a put down, rendered obsolete in the face of modern adventure games like Resident Evil, Tomb Raider, Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy.

Largely because of this, these shooters have a timeless quality to them, like dinosaurs preserved in mud the moment the asteroid smashes the ground. It’s a time capsule to a world forever lost in time.

Diehard fans who lament Sega’s departure from the hardware business and dreams of a “Dreamcast 2” completely miss the point. The company was doomed. I repeat: Sega was doomed. There’s no way the company could have survived the Sony onslaught, to say nothing of Microsoft transforming the PC gaming market and planning their own home console (you knew this was coming the second Windows 95 was announced). They don’t have the money, they don’t control their own manufacturing, and they don’t have any guaranteed blockbuster hits.

Nintendo could release a Pokémon game that’s nothing more than an eight-second animated clip of Pikachu scratching his butt and belching out letters of the alphabet. It would sell 20 million copies immediately. Sega has nothing like this.

T-Rex, meet Mister Space Rock, creator of Trinitron, Walkman, Betamax and DVD.

Enjoy your spaceship shooters, kids. Momento Mori.

Sega was never going to beat Sony, true. I've always wondered how that generation would go had Sony not entered the market.

My thoughts are that the Nintendo 64 globally would have outsold the Sega Saturn, but not to the point where Sega has rush out the Dreamcast.
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
Sega was never going to beat Sony, true. I've always wondered how that generation would go had Sony not entered the market.

My thoughts are that the Nintendo 64 globally would have outsold the Sega Saturn, but not to the point where Sega has rush out the Dreamcast.


There’s a bit of speculation on where the videogame market would have gone had Sony not invaded with PlayStation. Given that the US industry was in a severe slump 1993-96, turning around only after the launch of Nintendo 64, it’s quite possible that the slump would have continued indefinitely, if not leading into another 1983-style crash.

From the technology standpoint, Sony essentially skipped a console generation with PSX. It was expected that quality real-time polygon graphics were not feasible until the turn of the century, as that tech was very expensive and very difficult to sell for a mass market price, which in those days was $149.

If there is no PSX, the industry tech curve continues along as it had, and Sega’s Saturn Mk.I gets released, the one intended to compete with Atari Jaguar. Nintendo wouldn’t have felt compelled to rush after the Silicon Graphics board in order to compete, and so their console would be weaker than what became N64.

The problem is that long downturn, where gamers were growing tired of saturated genres and wanted something new and revolutionary. After all, they were being promised that for several years with the rose of CD-ROM and multimedia. Without a PlayStation to champion advanced 3D polygon worlds, who else is going to provide the Next Big Thing? Another 2D Arcade generation would have failed, as we can see from sales of 2D videogames dying Gen-5. I don’t think another five years of Donkey Kong Country would have kept things afloat.

And so both Nintendo and Sega would produce entirely different home consoles, as they both scrambled to catch up to Sony, all without breaking the bank. Nintendo could hit that $149 price point with N64, but it required stripping the hardware down to the bone, resulting in those infamous hardware bottlenecks and painfully low frame rates. Sega, however, could not sell Saturn for less than $300 without taking losses, and the ensuing price war by Sony—$299 in September 95, $199 in June 96, $149 in March 97–absolutely destroyed the company. This is why everybody in the company not named Hayao Nakayama wanted out of the hardware business.

In a PSX-free world, Sega’s console would be much cheaper to produce. They wouldn’t be losing $100 or more on the sale of every console, and that might have ensured their survival, if only for a little while longer. But they still had cash flow problems and were barely breaking even with Genesis, despite their success in grabbing half the market away from Nintendo. And they still had the software problem of no popular hits. Sonic was burning itself out (look at sales of Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles as proof), and the Sega Sports brand was a shambles.

The big mystery in all this: Microsoft. They’re still creating Windows 95 and eyeing the living room as their future conquest, as that’s the eternal dream of the digital future. Only now there is no Sony to oppose them. Does that mean Xbox arrives in the late 90s? How do they break into the JP market? Could they consolidate their brand globally the way Sony did? Could they win the support of Western software teams?

And what happens to 3DO and their 64-but M2 console? Does Matsushita release it or do they balk? They never seemed interested in the dream of the “set top box,” but perhaps they felt they couldn’t compete against Sony? Probably not. They weren’t infected with that 1960s utopian dream of the computerized future the way Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were infected.

Basically, there is a power vacuum that is waiting for a large tech giant like Sony to take over. I honestly can’t imagine they’re not entering the market. To put it bluntly, Sony built the PlayStation so they could sell DVDs and Blu-Rays. Without them, MS becomes the most likely candidate, but they have enormous challenges to overcome, particularly the Asian market. Both Sega and Nintendo’s Gen-5 consoles would be notably weaker than Saturn and N64, largely 2D based with limited 3D abilities (think Sega Model 1). Consumers were burning out on the established 2D videogames and wanted something new, but such tech is too expensive to sell at a mass market price, unless you have a major tech giant with an advanced 3D polygon board and billions to spend.

Anyway, a lot of rambling from me. Basically, if Sony PlayStation didn’t exist, we’d have to invent it.
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus



Full video: https://www.filmpreservation.org/sponsored-films/screening-room/1999-a-d#

As a quick follow up to my previous post, here‘s the vision of computers in the 21st Century. This is why the computer wars were fought. This is why Sony and Microsoft got into the videogame market.

The dream was to combine the computer to the television, make it the central hub for the great Digital Convergence. Watch TV and movies, listen to music, shop for goods and food, read the newspaper, read your mail, and, of course, play electronic games. This is the future everyone was fighting to build. And by “build,” of course, we mean “steal.”

Cue up “Pirates of Silicon Valley.”

And then marvel as something truly unexpected happens: Steve Jobs steals the magic box, yanks it away from the television, and attaches it to the portable telephone.

Apple is now worth over $3 trillion.
 
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Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
Hah! You just beat me to the punch.

That’s right, Tactics Ogre is now translated into English. This was expected after its predecessor, Ogre Tactics, was translated for Saturn, and all I can do is smile.

Once again, here’s the link:

https://mega.nz/file/t1NgRARB#y0dNWNDCNhIeDol-ezZ0SekA6aJXXtMxM8KH0ZuIkJ8


wQr84OL.jpg
 
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IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman


It’s been 25 years!
The original Baroque by Sting Entertainment came out in 1998 for the Sega Saturn and in 1999 for the PS1 It was an absolutely gorgeous, grotesque, surreal, brain-screwing horror action RPG that masterfully concocted Roguelike, dungeon crawler and survival horror elements into a sublime masterpiece that feels like a Shin Megami Tensei fever dream on acid.
Sadly, it was never officially translated outside of Japan. (Only the 2008 remake for the Wii and PS2 got that honor)
But, a few months ago, thanks to the valiant efforts of the ROM-hacking community, we’ve finally blessed with a masterful English fan-translation. So let’s celebrate the long-overdue Renaissance (pun intended) of a forgotten and neglected horror masterpiece!

Chapters
00:00 Part 1: Attack and Dethrone God
06:25 Sponsor
08:01 Part 2: Dungeon Master
18:12 Part 3: Digital Devils
29:07 Part 4: The Rogue to Redemption
37:28 Credits & Indie Showcase
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
XQ7BbW2.jpg



Ffmr8qQ.jpg



Good news for Wipeout XL fans. Splash Wave Racing on Twitter hosts weekly competitions for racing videogames, and our beloved six-of techno racer is the newest competition.

Anyone can participate. You simply record the race time on the winter course and the Auricom vehicle (that’s the first one). Take a screenshot of your final times and post them on Twitter, using the hashtag #SplashWaveRacing.

The competition runs until Monday 6PM (BST). Be sure to post your best times and share with the community. Each version of Wipeout XL—PSX and Saturn, NTSC and PAL—is listed separately, and as far as I know, I am currently the only one using the JP Saturn version. Don’t just let me walk away with a trophy, join in!
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus



Update: The original text for this post vanished by mistake, but I just wanted to report that Splash Wave Racing’s competition for Wipeout XL has now ended.
Kudos and thanks to everyone who joined in and shared their best racing times for the winter course.

I was surprised to see that someone else beat my time to win the Saturn (NTSC) category, but I’m also happy just to see others playing the JP version of this game. I’ve started to wonder if I’m the only American Saturn owner who has a Wipeout XL retail disc. So congrats for running a better race.

The next competition will be Sega Rally: desert course, three laps, Toyota Celica (AT). I can’t wait to practice and see if I can reach the same times I could get all those many years ago.
 
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MikeMyers

Member
There’s a bit of speculation on where the videogame market would have gone had Sony not invaded with PlayStation. Given that the US industry was in a severe slump 1993-96, turning around only after the launch of Nintendo 64, it’s quite possible that the slump would have continued indefinitely, if not leading into another 1983-style crash.

From the technology standpoint, Sony essentially skipped a console generation with PSX. It was expected that quality real-time polygon graphics were not feasible until the turn of the century, as that tech was very expensive and very difficult to sell for a mass market price, which in those days was $149.

If there is no PSX, the industry tech curve continues along as it had, and Sega’s Saturn Mk.I gets released, the one intended to compete with Atari Jaguar. Nintendo wouldn’t have felt compelled to rush after the Silicon Graphics board in order to compete, and so their console would be weaker than what became N64.

The problem is that long downturn, where gamers were growing tired of saturated genres and wanted something new and revolutionary. After all, they were being promised that for several years with the rose of CD-ROM and multimedia. Without a PlayStation to champion advanced 3D polygon worlds, who else is going to provide the Next Big Thing? Another 2D Arcade generation would have failed, as we can see from sales of 2D videogames dying Gen-5. I don’t think another five years of Donkey Kong Country would have kept things afloat.

And so both Nintendo and Sega would produce entirely different home consoles, as they both scrambled to catch up to Sony, all without breaking the bank. Nintendo could hit that $149 price point with N64, but it required stripping the hardware down to the bone, resulting in those infamous hardware bottlenecks and painfully low frame rates. Sega, however, could not sell Saturn for less than $300 without taking losses, and the ensuing price war by Sony—$299 in September 95, $199 in June 96, $149 in March 97–absolutely destroyed the company. This is why everybody in the company not named Hayao Nakayama wanted out of the hardware business.

In a PSX-free world, Sega’s console would be much cheaper to produce. They wouldn’t be losing $100 or more on the sale of every console, and that might have ensured their survival, if only for a little while longer. But they still had cash flow problems and were barely breaking even with Genesis, despite their success in grabbing half the market away from Nintendo. And they still had the software problem of no popular hits. Sonic was burning itself out (look at sales of Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles as proof), and the Sega Sports brand was a shambles.

The big mystery in all this: Microsoft. They’re still creating Windows 95 and eyeing the living room as their future conquest, as that’s the eternal dream of the digital future. Only now there is no Sony to oppose them. Does that mean Xbox arrives in the late 90s? How do they break into the JP market? Could they consolidate their brand globally the way Sony did? Could they win the support of Western software teams?

And what happens to 3DO and their 64-but M2 console? Does Matsushita release it or do they balk? They never seemed interested in the dream of the “set top box,” but perhaps they felt they couldn’t compete against Sony? Probably not. They weren’t infected with that 1960s utopian dream of the computerized future the way Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were infected.

Basically, there is a power vacuum that is waiting for a large tech giant like Sony to take over. I honestly can’t imagine they’re not entering the market. To put it bluntly, Sony built the PlayStation so they could sell DVDs and Blu-Rays. Without them, MS becomes the most likely candidate, but they have enormous challenges to overcome, particularly the Asian market. Both Sega and Nintendo’s Gen-5 consoles would be notably weaker than Saturn and N64, largely 2D based with limited 3D abilities (think Sega Model 1). Consumers were burning out on the established 2D videogames and wanted something new, but such tech is too expensive to sell at a mass market price, unless you have a major tech giant with an advanced 3D polygon board and billions to spend.

Anyway, a lot of rambling from me. Basically, if Sony PlayStation didn’t exist, we’d have to invent it.
You raise some really good points.

On the other hand though, no PlayStation means the Sega Saturn is the most powerful console in 1995 which makes that £400 price point look more justified. Games like Tomb Raider and Resident Evil might have ended up as exclusives too.

Guess it'd just be more of what the 16-bit era is until a bigger player enters the picture.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Princess Crown fan translation thread on romhacking.net finally locked by the moderators (a couple days after my first post there made for that reason). I really hope one of the talented/dedicated translation groups picks it up whether that dude finally admits it's not happening from his end or not.
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=15979.msg441586#msg441586
I actually had another reply pending responding to the guy that quoted me saying I wasn't sure if the mods would approve that as my first post but I guess everyone knows it's true anyway and suggesting to lock the thread since if it actually releases a demo or the full thing a new one can be made.
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Saturn Shiro posted a list of the Pal releases USA never got and I must say I always ignored Krazy Ivan as a random shovelware but after looking up some footage because of this list it might be worth checking out even if it won't be among the very best mech/vehicle combat games on the system.
Since it's not Pal optimized as the list says I thought maybe it's viable to get the Japanese version instead of Pal but apparently it's been dubbed to Japanese as you will see in the second video 🤷‍♂️


It's also on PC and PlayStation but it's not some MechWarrior classic I wanna get on the former and while the PlayStation version has the expected advantages the game was apparently somewhat decenty tweaked and enhanced for Saturn with more mechy inertia, spookier darker atmosphere etc.
 
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Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
Princess Crown fan translation thread on romhacking.net finally locked by the moderators (a couple days after my first post there made for that reason). I really hope one of the talented/dedicated translation groups picks it up whether that dude finally admits it's not happening from his end or not.
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=15979.msg441586#msg441586
I actually had another reply pending responding to the guy that quoted me saying I wasn't sure if the mods would approve that as my first post but I guess everyone knows it's true anyway and suggesting to lock the thread since if it actually releases a demo or the full thing a new one can be made.


I got myself into a bit of trouble a year or two ago for questioning the Princess Crown translation project, which appeared to be stalled and was going nowhere. Somehow, the two guys behind the project felt compelled to comment publicly, and one of them even sent me a short message on Twitter. Yet, here we are, still with nothing to show. It's not going to happen, certainly not from these two. Sorry, kids.

Somebody else just needs to take the reigns on PC and get it done. Fortunately, a former writer from IGN named Anoop Gantiyat created a translation guide and shared it online over a decade ago. It is not a perfect translation, but an excellent resource that has been used by fans over the years. According to a Kotaku article, the only parts missing is the post-game side stories and final ending, but walkthrough tutorials for the side quests were posted online and the ending was translated and posted to GameFAQs.

If anybody out there wishes to take charge of this translation project, I would strongly advise using the Gantayat text as the source, at least until a better translation appears. But we're not talking about Holy Scripture here. What matters is getting it done.

Once again, I should note that these fan translations are all created as a labor of love, without pay or compensation, and as such we should be thankful and respectful for all the work presented by the many talented programmers who work on these projects. Nobody is obligated to translate old videogames, especially on a home console from a lifetime ago. We in the Sega Saturn community have become spoiled rotten at all of these blessings, and finally being able to enjoy all these Japanese Saturn classics is nothing short of miraculous. We must, as always, remain humble and thankful for their valiant efforts. And if a particular videogame project falls apart or stalls, that's fine. Real life concerns must take greater priority and sometimes life just carries you away in a different direction.

I would love to see Princess Crown translated. It's easily the most anticipated Saturn title for an English patch and its omission remains a glaring oversight. But I am confident it will happen, hopefully sooner rather than later.
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
You raise some really good points.

On the other hand though, no PlayStation means the Sega Saturn is the most powerful console in 1995 which makes that £400 price point look more justified. Games like Tomb Raider and Resident Evil might have ended up as exclusives too.

Guess it'd just be more of what the 16-bit era is until a bigger player enters the picture.


This topic was brought up in a similar recent NeoGAF thread, and every time Sega is mentioned, all anybody ever wants to talk about is how the company collapsed and how they could somehow still remain in the hardware business today. Short, Short Version: Sega was doomed and there is virtually nothing that could have been done about it. Sega, Atari, Commodore and Spectrum were the dinosaurs. Sony was the asteroid.

Essentially, what happened was that Sony skipped a console generation. PlayStation was significantly more advanced than where the traditional technology curve was going, and it was only possible because the company was worth $60 billion and could afford to spend enormous amounts of money to build that brand. They could take large losses on hardware without breaking a sweat, while Sega's losses on hardware nearly killed them. Heck, by all rights, the company should have gone bankrupt by 2001, and was only saved because Isao Okawa, chairman of the board at CSK invested $500 million of his own personal fortune in order to keep Sega afloat. And, let's be honest, this only happened because he was dying of cancer.

If there was no Sony PlayStation, then Sega's Generation Five console would have used the original "Jupiter" design, which would have been closer to Atari Jaguar in terms of performance, with very powerful 2D capabilities and some impressive 3D polygon capabilities, although not quite at the level of Virtua Racing and Virtua Fighter (Model 2 would have been unattainable).

This is all counterfactual, so it's impossible to know how things would have turned out. It's important to note that the US videogame industry was undergoing a severe contraction after 1993, as consumers were becoming bored with aging genres and the market was becoming oversaturated. Gamers wanted something new, something they had never seen before, and yet another console cycle that refines the old 8-bit paradigm of platformers and brawlers wouldn't likely cut it. Simply offering Streets of Rage With a New Hat would not turn the tide. Gamers wanted the new paradigm shift, and none of the older dinosaurs had the money and resources to make that happen.

The stage was perfectly set for Sony to completely sweep away the old order, not just offer new advanced technology, but also redefine the very notion of videogames, moving away from arcades and towards expansive, immersive cinematic worlds. But that shift required at least a couple billion dollars to build, and Sega never had that kind of money. Enter Sony, a consumer electronics giant worth $60 billion. Enter Microsoft, a software behemoth worth more money than God. The dinosaurs were doomed, all of them.

The only major player from the old days to survive was Nintendo, and that was because 1) the company was sitting on billions in cash reserves, 2) they had arguably the single greatest game designer in Shigeru Miyamoto, and 3) they had the most fiercely loyal fans in the world. Nintendo raised a whole generation of children and those kids weren't going anywhere. Even today, nobody commands that level of loyalty.

Anyway, that's enough of this long shpiel. Sega was never going to survive as a hardware company. Best to appreciate what they gave us and enjoy their great consoles for what they were. You have a Saturn and Dreamcast, you don't need anything else in life. You're fine.
 
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MikeMyers

Member
This topic was brought up in a similar recent NeoGAF thread, and every time Sega is mentioned, all anybody ever wants to talk about is how the company collapsed and how they could somehow still remain in the hardware business today. Short, Short Version: Sega was doomed and there is virtually nothing that could have been done about it. Sega, Atari, Commodore and Spectrum were the dinosaurs. Sony was the asteroid.

Essentially, what happened was that Sony skipped a console generation. PlayStation was significantly more advanced than where the traditional technology curve was going, and it was only possible because the company was worth $60 billion and could afford to spend enormous amounts of money to build that brand. They could take large losses on hardware without breaking a sweat, while Sega's losses on hardware nearly killed them. Heck, by all rights, the company should have gone bankrupt by 2001, and was only saved because Isao Okawa, chairman of the board at CSK invested $500 million of his own personal fortune in order to keep Sega afloat. And, let's be honest, this only happened because he was dying of cancer.

If there was no Sony PlayStation, then Sega's Generation Five console would have used the original "Jupiter" design, which would have been closer to Atari Jaguar in terms of performance, with very powerful 2D capabilities and some impressive 3D polygon capabilities, although not quite at the level of Virtua Racing and Virtua Fighter (Model 2 would have been unattainable).

This is all counterfactual, so it's impossible to know how things would have turned out. It's important to note that the US videogame industry was undergoing a severe contraction after 1993, as consumers were becoming bored with aging genres and the market was becoming oversaturated. Gamers wanted something new, something they had never seen before, and yet another console cycle that refines the old 8-bit paradigm of platformers and brawlers wouldn't likely cut it. Simply offering Streets of Rage With a New Hat would not turn the tide. Gamers wanted the new paradigm shift, and none of the older dinosaurs had the money and resources to make that happen.

The stage was perfectly set for Sony to completely sweep away the old order, not just offer new advanced technology, but also redefine the very notion of videogames, moving away from arcades and towards expansive, immersive cinematic worlds. But that shift required at least a couple billion dollars to build, and Sega never had that kind of money. Enter Sony, a consumer electronics giant worth $60 billion. Enter Microsoft, a software behemoth worth more money than God. The dinosaurs were doomed, all of them.

The only major player from the old days to survive was Nintendo, and that was because 1) the company was sitting on billions in cash reserves, 2) they had arguably the single greatest game designer in Shigeru Miyamoto, and 3) they had the most fiercely loyal fans in the world. Nintendo raised a whole generation of children and those kids weren't going anywhere. Even today, nobody commands that level of loyalty.

Anyway, that's enough of this long shpiel. Sega was never going to survive as a hardware company. Best to appreciate what they gave us and enjoy their great consoles for what they were. You have a Saturn and Dreamcast, you don't need anything else in life. You're fine.
I have a response for this, but since I can tell you're sick of this topic, I won't say anything unless you want to take it to PMs.

But yes, I do own a Sega Saturn and a Dreamcast, and that's all I need. Gonna go play some Sakura Wars Columns now.
 
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nush

Member
Saturn Shiro posted a list of the Pal releases USA never got and I must say I always ignored Krazy Ivan as a random shovelware but after looking up some footage because of this list it might be worth checking out even if it won't be among the very best mech/vehicle combat games on the system.
Since it's not Pal optimized as the list says I thought maybe it's viable to get the Japanese version instead of Pal but apparently it's been dubbed to Japanese as you will see in the second video 🤷‍♂️


It's also on PC and PlayStation but it's not some MechWarrior classic I wanna get on the former and while the PlayStation version has the expected advantages the game was apparently somewhat decenty tweaked and enhanced for Saturn with more mechy inertia, spookier darker atmosphere etc.


List is missing the other Dragonball Z game that was France/Portugal exclusive.
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
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In recent years, translation projects for the Sega Saturn have exploded with many releases complete and many more on the horizon. I never even knew this game existed on the Sega Saturn, but here it is [patch link here], in all its glory with some exclusive features and readily available for english players. With so many more still stuck in Japan, this remarkable 5th generation machine remains the holy grail of retro gaming.

Translation Description:​


This is a complete English patch for the Sega Saturn port of Tactics Ogre. This translation uses the PSP translation for its text where applicable. The technical details are as follows:
  • Support for 1-byte character encoding.
  • Support for DTE/MTE.
  • Increased the internal resolution of the game to 352×224 (original 320×224).
  • Support 4MB Extended RAM Cartridge to reduce data loading time.
  • Support Hard Mode (enemy level increased by 20%.).
  • Increased the character’s remaining HP limit (up to 60%) for highlighting on the battlefield when using the “L+Z” button combination.
  • Displaying the leader plate on the main character panel (like in PS1 port of the game).
  • Unlocking a hidden option that allows you to saving the previous team formation. You can load the profile with “X” button while placing units on the chessboard.
  • Unlocked a hidden option to view current reputation in Warren’s Report mode.
  • The ability to saving in battle without exiting the game (only for Hard Mode).
  • Temporary saves are no longer deleted after loading (only for Hard Mode).

Differences between the Sega Saturn version and the PSP Remake/Modern Remake:​

  • Same exact Super Famicom original art and sprites, but at a higher resolution.
  • Rearranged Super Famicom tracks to CD quality, and added some more in the same style.

Differences between the Sega Saturn version and the PS1/SNES version:​

  • Better quality music.
  • Voice acting in important cutscenes.
  • No freezes during the battle (unlike the PS1 version).
  • The visible area of the battlefield is increased by 37% (сompared with SNES / PS1 versions).
  • Extended names for items and spells.
  • Reduced data loading time (compared with PS1 version).
  • Art gallery in Deneb Report mode (enter the character’s name as “D_REPORT” after beating the game).
—————

Note: With all great respect to xpresstuning, I decided to copy his recent NeoGAF post and copy it here on the Sega Saturn forum. Many heartfelt thanks for his efforts to highlight all the details on the new Tactics Ogre English translation for Saturn.
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus



Death Crimson holds a special distinction among the Sega Saturn library. In the 2000 Sega Saturn Magazine readers’ poll, it ranked dead last, but in the following years achieved a cult status among diehard fans as a “so bad, it’s good” retro classic.

Bad Game Hall of Fame has a comprehensive look at this game and the subculture that emerged in Japan, including fan get-togethers and live concerts by Death Crimson composer Kunitaka Watanabe, who is just the sort of cheerful eccentric one would expect.

My personal favorite story would be the “Death Saturn,” where fans superglue the CD tray shut with Death Crimson inside, making it the only videogame you can play on the console. You have to enjoy that level of perverse devotion.

In movies, there is a space for “so bad, it’s good” cinema, whether it be midnight screenings of The Room or Rocky Horror Picture Show, or freewheeling riffing comedies like Mystery Science Theater 3000. This sort of fan devotion to videogame trash, however, does not exist, aside from very rare instances such as Death Crimson fandom in Japan. Personally, I think we are missing out on enjoying the cheesy thrills of videogame trash. Heck, my devotion to Atari Corp is largely due to their silly Ed Wood style of gaming: Ninja Golf, Todd’s Adventures in Slime World, the Atari Jaguar.

There’s “bad” because a game’s art design and game mechanics are broken. Then there’s “bad” where the design achieves a certain weird charm, born purely out of sincere love, and Death Crimson has that in spades.

Check out the article and bookmark that website. It’s a treasure trove of retro gaming goodness, err, badness.
 

Dane

Member



Death Crimson holds a special distinction among the Sega Saturn library. In the 2000 Sega Saturn Magazine readers’ poll, it ranked dead last, but in the following years achieved a cult status among diehard fans as a “so bad, it’s good” retro classic.

Bad Game Hall of Fame has a comprehensive look at this game and the subculture that emerged in Japan, including fan get-togethers and live concerts by Death Crimson composer Kunitaka Watanabe, who is just the sort of cheerful eccentric one would expect.

My personal favorite story would be the “Death Saturn,” where fans superglue the CD tray shut with Death Crimson inside, making it the only videogame you can play on the console. You have to enjoy that level of perverse devotion.

In movies, there is a space for “so bad, it’s good” cinema, whether it be midnight screenings of The Room or Rocky Horror Picture Show, or freewheeling riffing comedies like Mystery Science Theater 3000. This sort of fan devotion to videogame trash, however, does not exist, aside from very rare instances such as Death Crimson fandom in Japan. Personally, I think we are missing out on enjoying the cheesy thrills of videogame trash. Heck, my devotion to Atari Corp is largely due to their silly Ed Wood style of gaming: Ninja Golf, Todd’s Adventures in Slime World, the Atari Jaguar.

There’s “bad” because a game’s art design and game mechanics are broken. Then there’s “bad” where the design achieves a certain weird charm, born purely out of sincere love, and Death Crimson has that in spades.

Check out the article and bookmark that website. It’s a treasure trove of retro gaming goodness, err, badness.

Kunitaka-san has also made covers of some trashy funny brazilian musics, I wasn't aware that he was the composer of Death Crimson months after he became a sensation here.
 
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Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus



Here is your periodic reminder that Panzer Dragoon Saga is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and, yes, it is the only videogame you would be willing to spend $800 to own.

Sega really ought to commission a new print run for this Saturn masterpiece. They could charge whatever they wanted, include an art book or set of postcards, maybe a big poster for your wall, and it would completely sell out in a day.

That’s how good Panzer Saga is. Even the reissued soundtrack LP (now out of print) is selling for over two hundred dollars. The demand is absolutely there. Somebody ought to exploit that.

So who will be the ones to put up the money for such a reissue? And I’m just talking about the 1998 Sega Saturn release, or a modern remake. You could make some money with that.
 
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MikeMyers

Member
Since I already did My Uncle From Another World, I'm just gonna go all out with the Sega Saturn being in the anime.

Neon Genesis Evangelion (1996)

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In probably the most famous reference, Asuka played Virtua Fighter in 2015, a true retro gamer!

Dragon Ball GT: A Hero's Legacy (1997)

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Goku Jr. owns a Sega Saturn. Wonder if he played DBZ Legends.

Duradura (2010)

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The main character owns a Sega Saturn with NiGHTS into Dreams.

Ben-To (2011)

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Protagonist is a big Virtua Fighter 2 and brings it to his school hang out in several episodes.

Hi Score Girl (2018)

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Protagonist is a big fighting game fan and chooses to buy a Sega Saturn over PlayStation due to Virtua Fighter.

My Uncle From Another World (2022)

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And what we had earlier, My Uncle From Another World.

Crazy how much cultural impact Sega Saturn had in its homeland.
I can't believe I forgot the most obvious one:

Sega Hard Girls (2014)

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Anime based on Sega consoles, with Sega Saturn appearing to be based on NiGHTS.
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus



Here is a wonderful discovery: a devout fan’s play through of Konami’s Vandal Hearts on Sega Saturn. This video series takes us through the entire game, but also goes into depth about the gameplay, but also numerous personal anecdotes, such as Aerherspoon’s memories of playing videogames with his late father.

This is the English fan translation, so if you’ve even been curious about this Strategy-RPG classic, here is the perfect opportunity to study its depths.
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus



Fantastic! We have Baroque in English!

And yet another Sega Saturn masterpiece is now available for play in English, thanks to the tireless efforts of the fan community. They really deserve to be commended (and, frankly, paid) for their efforts.

Baroque is one of the greatest horror videogames ever made, a dystopian, apocalyptic vision of madness, trauma, suicide and death. It causes you to question much of its reality, and, indeed, your player-character may suffer from madness just like all your fellow mutated survivors. It is a Rogue-like adventure best played in total darkness and headphones, in order to experience its densely heavy atmosphere, its creepy character designs, and the occasional jump scare.

One of my absolute Sega Saturn favorites. I highly recommend that you download the English patch as soon as possible.
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus





Here is a complete gameplay run of Baroque, courtesy of YouTube user KkngOfApoc. If you’re curious about this Saturn horror classic, here is your chance to experience it all from the comfort of your smartphone. Enjoy!
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus



At long last, we have a complete “play-through” video of Game Arts’ wonderfully charming Dino Island. This 1997 release plays out like an OAV, or direct-to-video anime cartoon. I put the words “play-through” in quotes because your input is limited strictly to answering multiple-choice questions now and then, and the rest of the time you just sit back and watch.

What makes Dino Island special is that it is not presented in FMV video, but drawn directly with Saturn’s powerful sprite graphics. The result are images that are sharp, vivid and just pop off the screen. It’s a great technical showcase for the system’s 2D superpowers, and it remained a Game Arts exclusive style. Diehard fans will also note the same techniques were used for Yumimi Mix, which was released to Sega CD as well as Saturn (which also saw a recent English translation).

I would love to see this title translated into English. If Yumimi Remix could be patched, this should be a no-brainer. Until then, you should grab an import copy for your collection. It remains largely unknown to the Western Saturn community (all ten of you), so prices should still be…Oh, wait, scratch that. This game is becoming rare and prices are now sitting at $60. Even the demo disc version (which features some exclusive content) is going for $30 now.
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus



We now have an ongoing play-through video series of the new Baroque translation on YouTube. The people behind this patch have done an outstanding job. It’s a pity the Saturn was dead in the West by 1998, because this videogame would have been a real standout on our shores. Thankfully, we can now enjoy it in our native language. Not that it makes the plot any more comprehensible, mind you, but one plays Baroque for its atmosphere and tension above all else.
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
https://www.youtube.com/live/4GondupDc-U?si=Bn1G8kw_qDj2fewB


I love, love, LOVE Lobotomy Software’s Quake on Sega Saturn. It captures the dark, moody atmosphere of the PC classic, adds a number of highly impressive (for its time) lighting effects, includes analog controller support and remains a highly tense, thrilling experience.

YouTube channel Gameplay and Talk offers this play-through of Quake, and so I must share it here with you. Our host is not a fan of this version, as he grew up with the PC version years ago, but at least you can sit back and enjoy the gameplay. At least he spends a lot of time hyping the Dreamcast, so kudos for that.

I always praise the Lobotomy Trilogy to the nines. Powerslave will always rank in my Saturn Top Five (alongside Panzer Saga, Fighters Megamix, World Series Baseball 98 and Wipeout XL). And Quake surely belongs among the elite games at the very top.
 
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Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus



It’s Castlevania: Symphony of the Night on Sega Saturn. It’s now translated into English with ongoing updates to improve its many infamous flaws and glitches, and it plays just as gloriously as you remember from PlayStation and PSN.

I was hoping to find an extensive gameplay video of the English patch, but at least we have a high quality video to enjoy. This videogame looks especially nice on a vintage CRT display, so if you have that option, pop in your disc and be amazed.

This Saturn edition includes two new castle areas, including one long hallway that is freakishly difficult, as well as “Maria Mode,” which allows you to breeze through the game as a massively overpowered character. Good times!
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus



Galaxy Force 2 represents the near peak of Sega sprite-based arcade games, one of those towering technical achievements that could only be experienced in the arcades. There were a number of home ports, but none of them could hold a candle to the original. Even the mighty Commodore Amiga was not strong enough to do this videogame justice.

The arcade is an absolute beast, running on Sega’s proprietary Y board, which utilized four Motorola 68000 CPUs to push an unbelievable number of 2D sprites to create its 3D worlds. The final result is the culmination of Sega’s SuperScaler efforts dating back to Space Harrier. And it still looks amazing.

Obviously, Sony and Nintendo had no chance of equaling these sprite visuals, and that is a clear win for Sega. Unfortunately, 3D polygons had completely taken over, and despite their Generation Five limitations, that’s the look that kids wanted. And so poor Sega was caught in a lurch, looking technically advanced but also behind the times. And that’s a rea tragedy for all the great arcade games from the period that would never find a home release.
 
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SpiceRacz

Member



Galaxy Force 2 represents the near peak of Sega sprite-based arcade games, one of those towering technical achievements that could only be experienced in the arcades. There were a number of home ports, but none of them could hold a candle to the original. Even the mighty Commodore Amiga was not strong enough to do this videogame justice.

The arcade is an absolute beast, running on Sega’s proprietary Y board, which utilized four Motorola 68000 CPUs to push an unbelievable number of 2D sprites to create its 3D worlds. The final result is the culmination of Sega’s SuperScaler efforts dating back to Space Harrier. And it still looks amazing.

Obviously, Sony and Nintendo had no chance of equaling these sprite visuals, and that is a clear win for Sega. Unfortunately, 3D polygons had completely taken over, and despite their Generation Five limitations, that’s the look that kids wanted. And so poor Sega was caught in a lurch, looking technically advanced but also behind the times. And that’s a rea tragedy for all the great arcade games from the period that would never find a home release.


I played this for the first time last night on an FM Towns emulator. It's a fun game, but needless to say, this looks and runs considerably better on Saturn hardware.
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus







Gundam Side Story Trilogy. Three episodic videogames featuring giant robots, killer 3D visuals, blazing speed and endless explosions. It’s easily one of Sega Saturn’s best hidden gems and a must-own for all fans and collectors.

There are many mech games on Saturn, and nearly all of them are great fun (Ghen War is almost certainly the weakest of the pack). Gundam Side Story is easily among the best of the best part is that the entire set can be bought for under $50. Each chapter is relatively short, but the complete experience is more than worth your time.

Now if I could only resist the temptation to blow up every single building I see and focus on the actual missions…It’s just too much fun to smash everything in sight. As always, I blame Star Raiders, where you could destroy your own refueling ships and space stations, purely for kicks.
 
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Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus





Center Ring Boxing arrived in the autumn of 1995, courtesy of JVC, where it filled a much needed void in the Saturn’s early software library. It did receive some attention and a few magazine ads, but quickly fell into obscurity and disappeared off the radar. Boxing games themselves seemed to disappear during Generation Five, as flashier tournament fighters and pro wrestling games stole the spotlight.

This title is actually an adaptation of Electronic Arts’ seminal 4D Boxing, a PC sim from 1991 that featured smoothly animated polygon fighters. It’s fascinating to see how far the technology has evolved in four short years, and demonstrates how rapidly polygon graphics were advancing at the time.

Fans of the genre will know what to expect. You create your own boxer and then rise up the ranks, competing against a large number of fighters in the ring, then building their skills in the gym between matches. The action is a little slow and stiff at first, but your fighter speeds up and learns new moves as he or she advances up the ranks.

Visually, Center Ring Boxing looks very impressive by 1995 standards. The polygon fighters and arenas are solid, very colorful, and free of any noticeable glitches as infamously seen in Virtua Fighter and Daytona USA. You even see some nice lighting effects that simulate lightbulb flashes at the end of a match. The art design is clean, and in an era where Gouraud shading and light sourcing effects were taken to a tacky extreme, such restraint is very welcome.

Overall, a fun experience. This videogame has aged more gracefully than I expected, and if you’re a boxing fan, then you’ll have a good time.
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus





Hang On GP has many strong qualities: six closed motorcycle circuits, a smooth and stable graphics engine, and the pedigree of o e of Sega’s most beloved franchises. Yet it failed to make an impact for one very notable reason: the digital controls are terrible. Steering your bike with the d-pad is all but impossible.

One obvious solution presents itself: Sega’s arcade racing wheel. With proper analog steering, this game is completely transformed, and it becomes immediately clear that this is how the videogame was meant to be played.

I found a YouTube video that features Hang On GP with the steering wheel, and as you can see, it’s an entirely different beast in analog. You can actually bank into turns! You can actually move around rival bikers! You can actually avoid crashing into every wall! What a world.

Does the racing wheel elevate this game to the level of the hallowed Manx TT? Well, let’s not get ahead of ourselves. While this game does feature six courses (two variations on three main tracks) and a decent number of “unlicensed” bikes, but the course designs are fairly generic and repetitive. The graphic engine runs smoothly, aside from a little wobbliness here and there, but the motorbikes are surprisingly blocky. Manx TT, by comparison, is a much more polished affair, with wonderfully varied course designs (pity there are only two, grrr), far more challenging computer opponents, and little touches like jumps that add some excitement to the mix. And let us not forget two-player mode, something that Hang On GP sorely lacks.

This game is very much an “early” title, which means a certain lack of polish is to be expected. I think Sega would have been wiser not to use the Hang On name, which raises expectations that cannot be satisfied here. Yet the experience—with proper analog controls—cannot be denied, and this tire alone makes a convincing case for the racing wheel as a must-own for all Saturn fans.
 
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Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus



Dead or Alive never gets enough love from the Saturn fans, so I thought we were overdue for another gameplay video. This isn’t to say that it isn’t respected or appreciated, as this was always hailed as one of Saturn’s legendary Japanese exclusives that got away. Tecmo loved this home version so much that they included it—and not the Model 2 arcade original—on their Dead or Alive Ultimate compilation on Xbox. Blame the raunchy direction the whole franchise later adopted, or blame over-familiarity, but this videogame has found itself a little overlooked these days.

Sega Saturn is blessed with so many magnificent 3D fighting games. It really is an embarrassment of riches and you could spend a lifetime mastering any one of them. It’s a pity that 1990s casual gamers were only interested in Street Fifhter, Mortal Kombat and Tekken. There just wasn’t any room left for anyone else to squeeze in. But for those dedicated genre fans, aren’t only need to plug in a good joystick and have the time of their lives.

If you have the chance, be sure to pick up the deluxe edition that includes a cardboard slipcover and a color booklet featuring character illustrations.
 

Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
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Tomb Raider 2 is coming to Sega Saturn! Well, sort of. But how amazing is that?

YouTube user JRTombRaider has been working on a special project: adapting the original Tomb Raider engine to bring its Sony-exclusive sequel to Sega's 32-bit console. However, this is listed as "E3 Demo," which suggests that it may be a recreation of only a few stages from an early demo of the PlayStation TR2 from 1997. Does this mean that JR only intends to adapt these three stages to Saturn, or will he be translating the complete videogame? I must admit that I don't know which is correct, although I am obviously hoping for the latter.

JR previously worked on adapting the PC-exclusive Tomb Raider stages for Saturn last year, but that project has been paused since. I would surely love to see both projects completed, if just so we can enjoy as much Tomb Raider as we possibly can.

Here are JR's notes from his YouTube video that he posted in April:

"Here's an updated video of my Tomb Raider II project for the Saturn, that shows all three E3 levels running on the TR1 engine. I put it on hold for nearly half a year and have recently started getting back into it again. Since my previous video, object conversion has been finalized and a few modifications have been made to the engine. You'll also notice that some sound effects have been updated.

"Enemy behavior was originally not something within the scope of this project, but I've learned a lot about the engine since then and I'm confident that at least partially functioning enemies should be doable (through code injection). I'm also going to implement the fly cheat to allow easier access to inaccessible areas. I might even see if I can get Lara's braid to work. Overall, I have great plans for this project and see huge potential to make this a neat little experience for the Saturn players."


And here is the YouTube video showing the TR2 stages in action. It looks amazing so far:


 
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