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[MikeMyers]

Nights into Dreams on a UK show:

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

It's finally here: the epic four-hour Pandamonium documentary on Sega Saturn's magnificent arcade hit Virtua Cop. This film weaves together multiple story threads, including a history of the Sega Graphics Library that enabled easier programming on Saturn, an extensive breakdown of the arcade and home versions of Virtua Cop, anecdotal stories and insights from the Sega programming team responsible for putting it all together, and newly translated interviews from television, newspapers and the pages of Sega Saturn Magazine JP.

This is easily Pandamonium's masterpiece so far, even surpassing his previous two-hour episode on NBA Jam TE. I honestly don't know how much longer he can sustain this ever-increasing workload. His short videos have now evolved into full-length features, and it's only a matter of time before he either completely burns out on his dream of reviewing every US Saturn title, or he moves on to proper documentary filmmaking and winning Oscars. I'm not kidding about that--I would seriously find a way to have a theatrical screening of VC in New York and/or Los Angeles, just to qualify for next year's Academy Awards nominations.

That's how good this is, and it's a testament to a growing and evolving talent. Watch this young man. He is going places.

 

[MikeMyers]

I hope he at least lasts long enough to get to the Saturn's other heavy hitterrs - VF2, Zwei, Nights.

Speaking of, here's Panzer Dragoon II Zwei on a UK Soap Opera:

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

I finally bought a copy of the Japanese edition of Alien Trilogy, and I'm really enjoying it. It's very hard for any first-person shooter to thrive on a console that's home to the mighty Lobotomy Trilogy, but this one does manage to hold its own. I've only played through the first four stages but I'm quite interested in seeing what lies ahead.

This really does feel like a modified Doom, one with slower pacing, more simplified stage designs and some night mood lighting. There are no jumps and you can only raise or lower your viewing angle slightly (using an awkward two-button combo), and so your movements feel strictly two-dimensional. That's very interesting as the stage designs involve many stairways that go up or down, but there are no pathways that overlap one another. It's all very 2D in its approach. On one hand, this makes the game feel a step backwards from Doom and its descendants, but on the other hand, it does add to the sense of tension and suspense.

The action is fairly brisk and your controls are responsive enough, although movements and turning is a touch slow. Again, it adds to the atmosphere, much in the sense that the tank controls heighten the tension in Resident Evil. Those little face huggers love to scramble along the floors and pop out at you when you least expect it, while the walking Xenomorphs tend to lumber at you slowly and serve as bullet sponges. You will later encounter human soldiers who open fire on you, and the plot expands to include the usual conspiracies and corporate villainy.

Each stage features a number of mission objectives, but these all involve the same things: shoot everything that moves, grab all the items you can find, shoot all the red barrels to make the nice fiery explosions, unlock all the doors at the proper computer terminals. There are no shortage of targets and the action never lags, although the stage layouts are a bit too maze-like and tend to be slightly confusing, resulting in a lot of circular wandering around in search of that last room that unlocks the exit.

I think Alien Trilogy looks very good on Saturn. I haven't played the Sony Playstation version, but watching videos on Youtube suggests the two look nearly identical, with the usual caveats (smoother transparency effects on PSX, more stable/less wobbly polys on Saturn). The color design is quite excellent, and if this game does not employ realtime lighting effects, then it is doing a magnificent job in faking it. Notice how the bright lights darken the surrounding areas slightly, just as if you were slightly blinded in the dimly-lit hallways. It works very well because it's very subtle and natural, not at all the over-the-top garish that was all too common to this era. Really, software developers went crazy with the lighting effects during Generation Five, and it's something that has aged terribly. But that's my own opinion.

The gossip behind this game is that Probe only used one of Saturn's CPUs, but I find that very hard to believe. Its summer 1996 release date was long after the release of the Sega Graphics Library, which easily enabled developers access to both SH-2 processors, and this game's performance is essentially equal to its PSX cousin. Compare this to earlier 1995 games like Ghen War (which used only one SH-2) and see the difference for yourself.

I think Probe did a very solid job with Alien Trilogy on Saturn. If we were to make comparisons to the almighty Lobotomy, I would say that Powerslave is much faster, more nimble on its feet, features fully 3D stage designs, support for the 3D analog controller (sorely missing here) and includes all those amazing lighting effects. It's just on another plane, and don't get me started on Duke Nukem 3D and Quake, which just look spectacular on Sega's console. But that's no knock on this game. It's very good for what it is, and doesn't really try to be anything more than a good Doom-style shooter.

And, for the record, yes, Alien Trilogy just makes me grouchier at John Carmack for kneecapping Saturn Doom.

 

[Alexios]

Nice game but it just annoys me that it looks like you're aiming at a downward angle the whole time. Perhaps they did thise due to the face huggers, I dunno, but it just feels off constantly to me. Maybe it's just the weapon sprites or a combination of that and the actual FPV.

 

[MikeMyers]

There's no question that when it comes to soccer, Sega's Worldwide Soccer series holds the crown. WWS 97 was a sensational discovery when it was new, and time has taken away none of its charms. WWS 98 made only a few changes to the formula, keeping the solid gameplay intact. And World Cup 98 appeared as a final swan song to the beloved franchise at the close of the Saturn era. The only real debate among Segaphiles is which installment in the series they prefer. You can't go wrong with any of 'em.

The next question for soccer fans: is there anyone else who can dethrone Worldwide Soccer on the system? FIFA 98 comes close, thanks to the brilliant player animations, endless gameplay options (including an excellent indoor soccer mode) and nearly every team on the planet. But the frame rate is lousy and there's that half-second lag when pressing buttons (FIFA 95 on Genesis was the same way). Konami's Honoo no Striker has solid visuals and presentation, but the player animations are a tad slow and sliding tackles are useless. World League Soccer 98 has the wonderful visual design and wealth of gameplay options, but its frame rate also chugs at times and the computer teams are just brutally hard. Go Go Goal looks absolutely spectacular with its polygon players and 60fps speed (it may be Saturn's ultimate show-off videogame), but it's a simple arcade affair and the computer is even more vicious than in WLS 98.

The third party soccer titles are all solid, but let's be honest, none of them can seriously challenge Sega on Saturn. I'm very curious to hear what everybody else thinks. Is there a beloved favorite soccer game for this platform? Any underdogs that we should know about?

Worldwide Soccer has the best presentation but it can be janky at times. The Konami game plays great. Where is Olympic Soccer on the list?

 

[Alexios]

I missed the Sega Saturn Grandia translation is now considered final. And the Drift King '97 translation too (fixing the last large issue of the ever present logo hiding the FMV subtitles).

Grandia English Patch

This patch will translate the Sega Saturn version of Grandia to English. At this point everything should be in English. This patch REQUIRES version 1.95 or higher of the SegaSaturnPatcher.

segaxtreme.net

Syutokou_97 / SYUTOKO BATTLE 97 / Drift King 97

Drift King 97 Localization by Thomas "Malenko" Carnill A hobby localization effort to bring Genki's first true 3D Shutokou racing game to the English speaking community. I am a big fan of the Tokyo Xtreme Racer series and spent a lot of time...

segaxtreme.net

I also missed that Retro-Bit's Saturn-but-with-dual-analog controllers are still going to be a thing, though the design has changed a ton. I'm still pissed at them

A Closer Look at Retro-Bit’s Wireless Analog Saturn Pads

Pat and I got a chance to sit down with the dudes (Ron, Rich & Andy) from Retro-Bit this past weekend at Portland’s Retro Gaming Expo, and we were able to get our hands on their latest (yet to …

www.segasaturnshiro.com

 

[Alexios]

Stellar Assault SS fan translation is progressing. Since there's a ton of in game chatter without subtitles they're going all in on dubbing like with Bulk Slash.

 

[Kazza]

This homebrew Saturn version of Unreal is looking amazing:

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

Like many of you, one of my holiday traditions in December is to play through the greatest demo disc of all time, the immortal Christmas Nights. I always play from scratch, meaning that I erase my save file so that I can collect all of the presents once again, and it usually takes a dozen games to unlock everything. This includes the many art galleries, the images of licensed merchandise (I'd really love to find one of those Nights plushies, if they exist), the karaoke mode, the link and time trials, and, of course, the cameo appearance by Sonic the Hedgehog, although playing as Sonic has always felt a bit like a chore. Thanks for holding out on giving us a real Sonic game, Kalinske. Pity the M2 assassination plot failed.

Xmas* Nights is how I discovered this classic videogame, as I found a copy at a nearby Blockbuster Video store for five dollars. The magazine articles on Nights, particularly Next Generation Magazine, were somewhat lukewarm on Sega's new mascot, and as a result I stayed away, giving all of my attention instead to Super Mario 64, which at the time was being hailed as "the greatest videogame of all time." Which, of course, it was. Let's be honest. But there's plenty of room for Nights and all its surreal, Jungian quirkiness.

This has always been a videogame that held its cards close to its chest, revealing its qualities slowly over time. It never announced itself boldly, but remained quiet, subtle, imbued with a quiet confidence that its genius would emerge after hours of gameplay. At its core, Nights is extremely simple: grab twenty blue spheres, smash into a giant cage (which on the demo disc resembles a large Christmas tree), then return home to your gazebo. After a time, almost by accident, you discover that if you fly over the gazebo, then you can race another lap and collect more bonus points, and suddenly a light clicks on: you can rack up infinite score combos and hone that perfect racing line. Later on, you discover that the children at the beginning don't have to walk straight to the gazebo where Nights awaits, but explore the countryside, collect spheres and find endless little surprises like bridges, trees, hills that pop into mountains, igloos, trains, and a charming moment where you lead a small red car into its garage. If this were a Nintendo game, you would be loudly rewarded with a 1-up mushroom or bonus item. But Nights is different. The experience itself is the reward.

And have we mentioned the brilliant A-Life program involving the charming little nightopians and their communities that you nurture and grow? Not only does their collective mood affect the game's music, they can mate with defeated enemies to create mutant offspring, which may eventually lead to the birth of a king who builds his own castle. I once even saw a Nights statue built in my honor. Again, it's just there for the sake of being there, a discovery that exists only to be discovered.

Nights is a unique fusion of 2D platformer, 3D platformer, arcade score attack, racing game and virtual pet simulator. And everything is presented under the guise of a surrealist, dreamlike examination of Jungian archetypes. The game world is really a series of lucid dreams that portray the waking world, but under the influence of what Terence McKenna called a "heroic dose" of psilocybin mushrooms. Nights Into Dreams is the end result of four obsessions: the sensations of flight, Carl Jung's Man and His Symbols, John Allegro's The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, and a ludicrous amount of psychedelics. It's just about the greatest acid trip this side of John Lennon's "Tomorrow Never Knows" and The Beach Boys' Pet Sounds and one of the greatest, wildest videogames ever made. And Christmas Nights is that perfect celebration of the whole experience, wrapped up in a little bow.


(*Note: A little postscript about "Xmas," which is a common shorthand for Christmas. The "X" in the name is actually the ancient Greek letter Chi (pronounced "kee") and was used as a substitute for the name "Christ" by Biblical scholars and theologians dating back a thousand years. And so, the word is not pronounced "ekks-mass" but "Christmas.")

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

The Game Lounge presents their picks for the 25 best 2D video games on Sega Saturn. Bear in mind that this really means "sprite" games, as titles like Power Drift, Street Racer Extra and Radiant Silvergun are included on this list, but you get the general idea.

Here's the complete ranking from the video:

25. Tryrush Deppy
24. Power Drift
23. Policenauts
22. Sega Ages Vol. I
21. Mega Man 8
20. Magic Knight Rayearth
19. Super Tempo
18. Marvel Super Heroes
17. Clockwork Knight 2
16. Three Dirty Dwarves
15. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
14. Legend of Oasis
13. Dragon Force 1
12. Vampire Savior
11. Street Racer Extra
10. Metal Slug
9. Cotton 2
8. Rayman
7. Radiant Silvergun
6. Keio's Flying Squadron 2
5. X-Men Vs Street Fighter
4. Guardian Heroes
3. Astal
2. Street Fighter Alpha 3
1. Saturn Bomberman

 

[Alexios]

Street Racer Extra doesn't fit at all. Ulike Power Drift it's 3D. As unfitting as someone praising Mario Kart 64 as a 2D game, or Bulk Slash, Powerslave, Klonoa, Grandia and others like them. Radiant wouldn't be nearly as impressive or renowned without the 3D either, like Galactic Attack/Layer Section.

Glad Astal wasn't #1 even if still too high. I don't get people's fascination with it, it's like regurgitated PR about its tech specs. Huge sprites! Parallax! Scaling! Rotation! The end result just isn't visually appealing or striking. Sol Divide that's often damned looks better to me and is about as (not) great.

Most of the praise Astal gets should be directed to Silhouette Mirage or Princess Crown instead in my opinion (yet neither is in the list, lol).

SFA2 Gold worth being up there too, excellent port WITHOUT RAM cartridge requirements (or support) for an often considered better, more well rounded game (and even if not true, at least on par). 99% of the arcade animation frames and assets are there handily beating the also good all things considered PS port. Only Zangief has his forward walk as also backward and misses some victory pose frames when not used as a duplicate character (doing that for any character improves voice samples and sfx, where on PS it restores missing frames). Everything else is there, save for some background elephant's animation. No Dungeons & Dragons either?! Come on. Absolutely brilliant games that look beautiful and probably stress CPS2 and Saturn more than any fighting game (even if there's no 4 player support in the ports, that would have been so awesome).

Also, nothing from SNK/NeoGeo outside Metal Slug? Galaxy Fight at least is pretty great and unique, even if not 1:1.

And no Astra Superstars or Elevator Action Returns or Groove on Fight, come on.

There's also no reason to exclude Dragon Force II since they do include imports. Just have such cases as a combo with the original if you don't wanna waste a slot to your own arbitrarily chosen limit.

Ugh, just don't limit, too many great games and many would handily trash some of the chosen ones.

 

[cireza]

The Game Lounge presents their picks for the 25 best 2D video games on Sega Saturn. Bear in mind that this really means "sprite" games, as titles like Power Drift, Street Racer Extra and Radiant Silvergun are included on this list, but you get the general idea.

Here's the complete ranking from the video:

25. Tryrush Deppy
24. Power Drift
23. Policenauts
22. Sega Ages Vol. I
21. Mega Man 8
20. Magic Knight Rayearth
19. Super Tempo
18. Marvel Super Heroes
17. Clockwork Knight 2
16. Three Dirty Dwarves
15. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
14. Legend of Oasis
13. Dragon Force 1
12. Vampire Savior
11. Street Racer Extra
10. Metal Slug
9. Cotton 2
8. Rayman
7. Radiant Silvergun
6. Keio's Flying Squadron 2
5. X-Men Vs Street Fighter
4. Guardian Heroes
3. Astal
2. Street Fighter Alpha 3
1. Saturn Bomberman

Too many CPS2 fighters. I mean, we get it, the ports were great. They should have included Real Bout Special for example. Excellent port, plays well, is super smooth. Marvel Super Heroes is riddled with slowdowns. Doesn't deserve a slot here. I always found Night Warriors better than the sequel as well. Alpha 3 is definitely their best Saturn port.

Needs more Elevator Action Returns. Anybody who owns a Saturn needs to play this ASAP.

Also a personal pick would be one of the Last Gladiator pinball games. They are hi-res 2D, Necronomicon being my favorite. Simply fantastic, my favorite pinball game by far.

Another personal favorite is Worms. We all know Worms, the original game is my favorite and the Saturn port is impeccable. Very nice, smooth and detailed visuals. Great gameplay, better than the sequels in my opinion.

I would have picked Sonic 3D as well. This is a excellent version on Saturn, that makes some great use of the console in the visuals department while retaining smooth framerate. The music is excellent and the 3D special stages are as well.

Street Racer pushes quite a bit of 3D, but it is a great demonstration of the console's strengths. This is typically the kind of presentation where the Saturn was meant to shine, with a lot of work sent to both VDPs.

Glad they included Legend of Oasis, this game is an absolute masterpiece.

 

[Alexios]

Saturn Shiro playing the Stellar Assault SS fan translation current progress with in mission chatter etc. beyond the intro shown previously.


Dude sucks at it though, it's not a complex game and most early missions take minutes normally. Also the game's 60fps if you enable interlacing with no noticable image quality hit, apparently it's supposed to only clear ghost trails every other frame or whatever but I dunno, just enable it and see.

 

[TuFaN]

My saturn sadly doesnt work anymore :/

 

[fart town usa]

Nice. Alexios clued me into this thread. Never showed up in the search.

I have been on an all out Saturn frenzy the last month or so. I've had my current Saturn since 2009 and while it's always plugged in, it kind of sat there for the most part.

Recently though, played through Deep Fear x2 and actually wrote a guide for the Japanese version. I want to add images and stuff, give it the proper treatment.

Also got a repro of SF3 english version last week. Wachenroder arrived today and Night/Christmas Nights and a 3D controller are set to arrive today too. Satiator as well at some point, just waiting for it to ship. Abrasive's shippers in NA all got sick and stopped working it seems. It's nearing 3+ weeks now so maybe they all died, lol. Also got the retrovision component cables ordered and those should be shipping out in the next few weeks.

Plan is to stream on Twitch in the coming months and potentially makes tens of dollars, lol. 2023 is 100% the year of the Saturn for me. So stoked to dive into rare Japanese games and the translations/homebrew stuff.

 

[Fenix34]

I have question about game linda cube. Will be translation of this game?

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

I have question about game linda cube. Will be translation of this game?

I would love to see Linda Cubed translated into English. That videogame made the top ten on the 2000 Sega Saturn Magazine JP poll.

 

[Fenix34]

I would love to see Linda Cubed translated into English. That videogame made the top ten on the 2000 Sega Saturn Magazine JP poll.

What about this game? First two scenarios was easy. How to complete third i don't understand.

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

The always sublime Wipeout as played on a CRT and the Saturn racing wheel, which is where the game really comes alive. I absolutely adore this one, and even though Wipeout XL is superior in nearly every regard,
I do prefer the track designs here, as well as Cold Storage’s brilliant music.

Either way, you can’t go wrong.

 

[MikeMyers]

Never tried Wipeout with a wheel before. Gotta add that to my the bucket list.

Anyone seen My Uncle From Another World? Lot of Sega Saturn goodies there:

 

[Alexios]

They're playing Guardian Heroes. Could do better.

 

[MikeMyers]

Was always more into Die Hard Arcade myself.

 

[Alexios]

Was always more into Die Hard Arcade myself.

Since they're in Japan they should play the Dungeons & Dragons collection instead, which also has beautiful 2D art and RPG aspects like GH but is waaaaay better without stupid physics or lanes instead of free movement (though they're limited to 2 players unlike the arcade versions they're 2 too).

 

[MikeMyers]

Since they're in Japan they should play the Dungeons & Dragons collection instead, which also has beautiful 2D art and RPG aspects like GH but is waaaaay better without stupid physics or lanes instead of free movement (though they're limited to 2 players unlike the arcade versions they're 2 too).

You know, I just realised he enver mentions Sakura Wars or Virtua Fighter, the biggest killer apps for the Sega Saturn in Japan. Lot of NiGHTS and Guardian Heroes refs though.

 

[Alexios]

Is it a good series or super depressing, the premise sounds like it will be depressing with a dude who lost half his life to a coma and potentially make the viewer think about their own and where theirs went even without being in a coma, lol, I'd rather skip that if I'm not misunderstanding it.

 

[MikeMyers]

Only worth it for the Sega references. You're better off with Hi Score Girl. Lot of Sega Saturn love there.

 

[nush]

And no Astra Superstars or Elevator Action Returns or Groove on Fight, come on.

I just found that Elevator Action Returns is on PlayStation. I brought it right away and it looks awesome as I have a massive TV now compared to what I had back in the day.

 

[Alexios]

I just found that Elevator Action Returns is on PlayStation. I brought it right away and it looks awesome as I have a massive TV now compared to what I had back in the day.

Yah, City Connection has released several Saturn games/versions on new consoles/PC with the Saturn Tribute or S-Tribute naming. Ppl say it uses the SSF emulator which is pretty demanding so maybe why they only do 2D stuff and they've managed to swap out games on Switch etc. I think.

 

[fart town usa]

I got the Satiator on Friday and man, this thing is effing awesome.

I dove into Shining Wisdom. I had it as a kid and I enjoyed it but I remember being really disappointed that it wasn't more like a traditional Zelda. Bought it again in 2009 and still wasn't feeling it, I had completely forgotten about the infamous run mechanic... This time though, I'm playing with an AR code that gives me unlimited herbs. I'm the furthest I've ever been and occasionally have to check a Longplay to see where I need to go next. The game is pretty cryptic and no map (at least so far).

Overall though, the game is incredibly fun when you don't have to worry about grinding to buy herbs. The OST is insanely good too! It's the main thing that is keeping me so engaged. The enjoyment I'm getting out of Shining Wisdom is worth the price of the Satiator alone, there was no way I was going to buy an actual copy of SW a 3rd time.





One thing I realize now too is that the game wants you to be racing around like Ys in a way, helps big time with combat, the sword slash is so insanely pathetic, lol. The boomerang boxing gloves is really great though. Really charming game and happy to finally enjoy it after 25+ years.

 

[Alexios]

Some info about Shining Wisdom's US/Pal localization. They're also known for changing the difficulty of the games, maybe this game's a victim of that as well (many have patches to change them back but I don't think this does). I've got no strong opinion, I don't care about their games too much.

Shining Wisdom Translations

Say what you will about the quality and quantity of the two western Saturn game libraries, but it is widely accepted that the Japanese library is vastly superior, both in terms of content and scope…

www.segasaturnshiro.com

 

[fart town usa]

Some info about Shining Wisdom's US/Pal localization. They're also known for changing the difficulty of the games, maybe this game's a victim of that as well (many have patches to change them back but I don't think this does). I've got no strong opinion, I don't care about their games too much.

Shining Wisdom Translations

Say what you will about the quality and quantity of the two western Saturn game libraries, but it is widely accepted that the Japanese library is vastly superior, both in terms of content and scope…

www.segasaturnshiro.com

I actually read that yesterday. Really interesting. I've always enjoyed WD translations and it was surprising to realize that lots of people really dislike them. I dunno, it was a different time back then and most people had zero clue about the Japanese script. I was just happy to have access to obscure JRPGs.

Albert Odyssey gets a lot of flak but WD actually made the game better with their tweaks, they improved the load times and considering they are still bad, I can't even imagine how the Japanese version plays. Also cut down the exp requirements so you level up faster. Smart thinking on their part cause that game is a total slog with loading in/out of battles.

 

[Alexios]

Cool, I thought they usually made games harder than originally, not easier. I think that's what I read for Magic Knight Rayearth at least.

 

[MikeMyers]

Since I already did My Uncle From Another World, I'm just gonna go all out with the Sega Saturn being in the anime.

Neon Genesis Evangelion (1996)

In probably the most famous reference, Asuka played Virtua Fighter in 2015, a true retro gamer!

Dragon Ball GT: A Hero's Legacy (1997)

Goku Jr. owns a Sega Saturn. Wonder if he played DBZ Legends.

Duradura (2010)

The main character owns a Sega Saturn with NiGHTS into Dreams.

Ben-To (2011)

Protagonist is a big Virtua Fighter 2 and brings it to his school hang out in several episodes.

Hi Score Girl (2018)

Protagonist is a big fighting game fan and chooses to buy a Sega Saturn over PlayStation due to Virtua Fighter.

My Uncle From Another World (2022)

And what we had earlier, My Uncle From Another World.

Crazy how much cultural impact Sega Saturn had in its homeland.

 

[fart town usa]

Yea, for years I assumed the DC sold better than the Saturn but no. Maybe in NA but not in Japan at least. Saturn was Sega's best selling console in Japan, my mind was blown when I read that a while back. Now that I have access to all the Japanese games, I can definitely see why. Footage alone does not do these games justice. Playing them is absolutely sublime.

It's such a bummer that NA Sega dropped the ball and shit all over the field when it came to the Saturn. Truly some of the worst business decisions of all time.

 

[MikeMyers]

Sega made 9.26 million Sega Saturn's and 9.13 Dreamcast, so the former definitely sold better. It's also not even factoring in Saturn's not made by Sega - Samsung, TecToy, etc.

I remember a G4 documentary on the Dreamcast, where a Sega eymployee said when they discontinued the Dreamcast, the majority of Dreamcasts were still sitting in warehouses. You can even see an example https://www.neogaf.com/threads/new-dreamcast-119-99-sold-by-amazon.364129/]here[/url]. I'd wager that the Dreamcast was probably between 4-5 million sold before it was fire sold.

Factoring in it was sold at half the price of the Sega Saturn, I'd definitely say Dreamcast grossed less money except for maybe in the North American market. Both consoles were tragic though.

 

[fart town usa]

Sega made 9.26 million Sega Saturn's and 9.13 Dreamcast, so the former definitely sold better. It's also not even factoring in Saturn's not made by Sega - Samsung, TecToy, etc.

I remember a G4 documentary on the Dreamcast, where a Sega eymployee said when they discontinued the Dreamcast, the majority of Dreamcasts were still sitting in warehouses. You can even see an example https://www.neogaf.com/threads/new-dreamcast-119-99-sold-by-amazon.364129/]here[/url]. I'd wager that the Dreamcast was probably between 4-5 million sold before it was fire sold.

Factoring in it was sold at half the price of the Sega Saturn, I'd definitely say Dreamcast grossed less money except for maybe in the North American market. Both consoles were tragic though.

I was watching some YT video the other day going over the death of Sega as a console maker and it mentioned something about the DC selling in NA for $50 less than what SOJ wanted and when SOJ realized it they were furious. Just another factor that caused them to bleed copious amounts of money.

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

I just scored a disc-only copy of Dragon Force for $99, which is an enormous deal as disc copies of this Adventure-Strategy classic go for well over double. And let’s not look at the prices on complete boxed copies…oof!

In any case, it’s great to finally have an actual copy of this videogame in my collection. It’s an astonishing and highly original masterwork that boasts epic 200-man battles, challenging military campaigns and unique storylines among its many main characters. The complete playtime can easily stretch into years.

Dragon Force deserved to sell millions of copies. This should be an ongoing franchise today, standing alongside Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and Legend of Zelda.

Sega created a 1998 sequel, Dragon Force 2, created by the software team behind the excellent Terra Phantastica. The core gameplay remains the same, but this time generals can command two different divisions, adding greatly to the strategic depth of battles. Graphics have also been notably improved, with a more dynamic camera system, greater variety in landscapes, and improved art designs for the many different soldier classes.

I’d say Dragon Force 2 has the best 2D graphics on Sega Saturn, and that’s really saying a lot. It’s a crying shame the title was never released in the West, although we now have an English fan translation patch for everyone to enjoy.

i feel compelled to put both Dragon Forces my Saturn Top Ten list just on principle. They’re easily as iconic as Panzer Saga, Shining Force 3, Grandia and Sakura Wars—all of which deserved to sell millions.

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

Guardian Heroes is a true Saturn masterpiece and one of its very best 2D videogames. In a just world, it would have sold a million copies and spawned a highly successful franchise, instead of becoming a cult classic like so many titles in this system’s library.

I picked up a disc-only copy this week for $100, which is a very good bargain given how expensive the North American release has become. The Xbox digital release is available for a far more affordable price, but it’s leaving this month with no indication of any future reissues, digitally or physically. If you want to enjoy this game long-term, you’ll want to collect the Saturn version.

I haven’t played this one in a while, as my old backup disc failed a couple years ago, so I am very thrilled to have a retail copy to enjoy.

 

[MikeMyers]

I was watching some YT video the other day going over the death of Sega as a console maker and it mentioned something about the DC selling in NA for $50 less than what SOJ wanted and when SOJ realized it they were furious. Just another factor that caused them to bleed copious amounts of money.

Yeah, Sega of Japan wanted to do $250 to break even but Bernie Stolar went around that - which is why he was fired. At that point they should have definitely went for profit over market share.

 

[Dane]

Yeah, Sega of Japan wanted to do $250 to break even but Bernie Stolar went around that - which is why he was fired. At that point they should have definitely went for profit over market share.

Bernie said it was his persistence to have everything set for NA and Europe (9/9/99, big marketing and etc) while SoJ wanted to just release it in 2000 online only. Perhaps 200 was set because the potential profit at 250 wasn't worth it, IMO I would have considered releasing it simultaneously while struggling with shortages and early software, at least they would have a stained image on the year and half of absence.

 

[Alexios]

Wow, this looks really nicely done. Not omg how did they do it like that 3D engine with the Unreal content but yeah. I like it. Gotta love the sound effects being VA, lol.

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

Wow, this looks really nicely done. Not omg how did they do it like that 3D engine with the Unreal content but yeah. I like it. Gotta love the sound effects being VA, lol.

The Legend of Zelda “ba-da-da-DAA” is an especially nice touch. This looks amazing, I hope something comes of this. It’s so great to see the Saturn community growing and thriving in the 2020s. I never could have imagined this.

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

Well, it’s time for my annual Saturn games buying binge, where I pick up another round of sports games and hidden gems, alongside a Few known classics that are creeping up in price.

One of those game arrived today: Core’s Thunderstrike 2, one of the best helicopter combat titles for the system. This is a sequel to the Sega CD classic and this 32-bit installment raises the bar on all fronts. Action is fast and furious, your copter is easy to control and boasts many impressive weapons, and enemy targets explode in highly satisfying bursts of red and blue fire. All in all, a great experience.

Here is a video showing Thunderstrike 2 playing on a CRT display. This game is still available for under $20, making it a must for all Saturn collectors out there.

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

Time for a “battle of the ports” to see how Core’s Thunderstrike 2 looks on Saturn and PlayStation. As you can see, the two versions are effectively identical, and any differences in visuals would require an obsessive-compulsive type to scan their televisions with a magnifying glass.

I suppose one advantage of the Saturn version is support for the Mission Stick, which offers fully analog controls and is compatible with most of our favorite air combat games including Panzer Dragoon and Afterburner. I don’t have one at present, but it’s surely on my must-have list.

Thunderstrike 2 boasts fast action, challenging military missions and endless waves of exploding targets on land, sea and air. For a late 1995/early 1996 videogame, it looks great and has aged very well. You only have to make your piece with the relatively short draw distance, but it is better than Virgin’s excellent Black Dawn (the less said of the thoroughly mediocre Black Fire, the better).

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

Dragon Force is a stone-cold Sega Saturn classic, one of the console’s very best adventure videogames and a true showpiece for 2D sprite graphics that were truly beyond the reach of Sony and Nintendo. In a just world, it would have become as big a blockbuster as Final Fantasy 7 and spawned a dozen sequels to the present day. Oh, well. We did get a fantastic sequel and a kick-ass prog-rock band out of the deal, so there’s that.

One of the main challenges with Dragon Force is its steep learning curve. New players may feel overwhelmed by the number of options and military formations. It takes a fair bit of trial and error to learn the ropes and gain an understanding of the gsme’s combat system. Even today, I found myself reading the instruction manual, multiple strategy guides and videos to understand it all.

Fortunately, we have this most excellent beginner’s tutorial, courtesy of Sega Saturn, Shiro. You are shown the gameplay basics, an overview of your administrative duties and military strategy, as well as some good formations for your first few battles.

I’ve finally scored a physical copy (disc-only, of course) and I can’t wait to dig my teeth into this game. Dragon Force is one of those adventure games that you could play for years,

 

[MikeMyers]

Brand new 2023 show Koala Man name drops and even shows the Sega Saturn!

 

[Alexios]

Big Kronos update if anyone uses it over SSF/Mednafen/Beetle etc.

 

[Alexios]

Also looks like Stellar Assault SS is nearing release with so much of it done already, only a few missions VA is left to do! Awesome.

Stellar Assault SS English localization project

Wow I loved her voice. This actress is really good and have great diction. The words are crystal clear.

segaxtreme.net

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

I thought I ought to show off my Sega Saturn retail disc collection. It’s growing at a healthy clip, even if I only really go on a spending spree once or twice a year.

Japanese imports make up the largest portion of my library. I do this because 1) I prefer the JP jewel case designs, and 2) the prices are almost always cheaper than their American counterparts.

I have a few US “long boxes,” but these are ones that I’ve owned for many years. I think Tunnel B-1 is the most recent acquisition, and that was several years ago.

I do have one PAL Saturn title, the most excellent Jonah Lomu Rugby. I still need to get World League Soccer 98, and maybe that Kart racing title. A complete collection of Saturn PAL exclusives would make for a very fun goal.

As you can see, “disc only” games make up a large portion of my Saturn library, and this is almost always because of cost, which are far cheaper than a “complete” set. As prices on the used market continue to skyrocket, this becomes an essential option for collectors.

Last but not least, of course, is my enormous colllection of backup discs, which is where the bulk of my Saturn collection lies. But Inhave been working steadily to replace my CD-Rs with retail discs, especiallly when I don’t have to spend a hundred dollars for one videogame. I will do that now and then (Guardian Heroes and Dragon Force, for example), but I still prefer to hunt for true hidden gems and cheaper games instead. Thankfully, Saturn has such a wide and diverse software library that one can collect without breaking the bank. Heck, I just scored Baroque—one of the greatest horror videogames ever made—for a single dollar. Well, plus postage, which shot up dramatically since COVID struck three years ago.

Oh, and for the record, I was given a complete copy of Panzer Saga by a housemate back in the year 2001. For free. Can you believe that?! Years later, I sold it for $450 at the time I got married. Both decisions turned out to be a mistake. And now the price of PDS has tripled. Even the cardboard CD covers are selling for over $200 each. It’s just insane.

Anyway, these are my Saturn retail discs. I’m sure you’ll see some favorites, as well as a few surprises and new discoveries.

ProTip: One easy source for Saturn collectors: sports games. These are among the cheapest and most available titles for the system, they nearly always look great, and they’re always popular with family and friends. Worldwide Soccer and World Series Baseball are absolute must-haves for all fans, and the best part is that they won’t break the bank