Next Step in FromSoftware's gameplay evolution sould be Dragon Riding

ikbalCO

Member
I can't stop thinking about this

Like many of you I watched hotd season finale last night and there is an incredible dragon chase scene in it.

I thought about how similar the world building in fs games and westeros. Both middleage-esque europelike worlds with dragons, depends on deep lore, traditions, customs and laws.

I realised how fs has been teasing dragons since demons souls. As an enemy, as a background, as a theme but never as a companion till elden ring.

Not to fool you, you obviously dont have a dragon as a companion or as a mount but very important -might be the most important- character in the game has a deep connection with a dragon.

godwyn/fortyssax

i strongly believe it is time for us to mount a dragon in a very grand way.

This should be the next step in fs gameplay evolution.

The reason why believe the time is now is simple: ssds

In order to have fun and engaging dragon riding gameplay, dragons need to be fast and the map has to rendered in a fast pace. With old hardware this would have been impossible. I remember imsomniac devs talking about how they capped spider-man's swinging speed because with hardrives the world was very hard to render.

You need a massive world and with elden ring fs have already prooved they can do it best.

When you think about it with elden ring, fs has done two things that they never did before, massive open world and mounting. It almost feels like they are already building up to dragons.

If one developer can make a game with fantastic dragon gameplay, combat and traversel, its from software.

Its been 13 years in the making.

We shall have it at last.

 

ikbalCO

Member
Nah, those types of games shouldn’t have too much freedom.
But the unchained freedom in games like botw and elden ring is what makes them unique and goat worthy.

Wouldnt dragon riding add another dimension to that freedom aspecially in the hands of fromsoftware?
 
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ikbalCO

Member
I prefer updated engine or something
That wouldnt be a next step in gameplay.

That would be just an engine improvement.

The reason why i believe is the perfect time for dragon riding is the mass adaptation of ssd's which i believe they will allow devs to create more vertical world.

and what better way to perfect the vertical gameplay than fromsoft game with dragons?
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
But the unchained freedom in games like botw and elden ring is what makes them unique and goat worthy.

Wouldnt dragon riding add another dimension to thay freedom aspecially in the hands of fromsoftware?

No elden ring has very tight “ gates “ with areas you are not allowed to until you defeat certain bosses and also very strong enemies in the world that can one hit kill your even on your horse.

A flying mount you could basically just fly anywhere and cheese super powerful equipment.
 

ikbalCO

Member
No elden ring has very tight “ gates “ with areas you are not allowed to until you defeat certain bosses and also very strong enemies in the world that can one hit kill your even on your horse.

A flying mount you could basically just fly anywhere and cheese super powerful equipment.
But what if there are flying enemies hence wild dragons?
 

Holammer

Gold Member
Nah, not feeling it, I already disliked the mount in Elden Ring and a flying mount would trivialize travel just like it did in WoW.
BotW style climbing would offer more mechanically.
 

ikbalCO

Member
that would be stupid, might as well spend the budget else where.
Dragon fight on the sky with NPC is not what I expected or want in a souls game
Isnt that what people said when elden ring was first announced, that they dont want an open world in a souls game?

People dont want it until they see it and play it.

I think there is a lot of life in dragon vs dragon combat in the skies.
 

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
Isnt that what people said when elden ring was first announced, that they dont want an open world in a souls game?

People dont want it until they see it and play it.

I think there is a lot of life in dragon vs dragon combat in the skies.
open world and dragon riding or both different things.
and im pretty sure majority of people have no issue being open world.

are you going to have different weapon move sets while riding a dragon?
How many enemies variety in the sky?
How is the ground enemies going to respond to you riding a dragon?
And what about cheesing balancing sky vs ground?

Seems like a lot of budget and time is going to spent on something not really important in a souls game imo.
 

ikbalCO

Member
are you going to have different weapon move sets while riding a dragon?
How many enemies variety in the sky?
How is the ground enemies going to respond to you riding a dragon?
And what about cheesing balancing sky vs ground?
Thats for fromsoft to figure out. Thats why i want them to do it and not any other dev. I wouldnt want cdpr to do it for example. Because there are a lot of gameplay elements to control and create.

I do understand your concerns when it comes to budget and time but aren't fs great at reusing assets to save time. They have created a lot open world assets with elden ring I think. They can spend few years to put the below in gameplay format.


 

A.Romero

Member
I want dragon riding but I don't think it belongs in a souls game without being just secondary. I rather have actual dragon riding in a game designed around it.

I guess I'm saying that is time that Lair made a comeback.
 

CamHostage

Member
Srsly though wouldn't you love to ride a dragon in the lands between?

...I mean, not really?

Everybody wants to fly in games when they're "open-world" because the last dimension people imagine exploring is the air. Then you get up in the air and there's nothing there. It's sky, it's some clouds, it's maybe other flying things that you swat at or shoot at, maybe some flak or cannon shot... not a ton's going on in the air. They can put other dragons up there in a dragon game, but then you've got dragon vs dragon combat, which either is limited and precarious (ala Lair) or is just dogfighting and strafing (ala Century: Age of Ashes.) If a game developer really designs a game and a game world for dragon-based gameplay then okay, but it's a particular type of interest.

Putting flying dragons would add what to Souls games? These are games all about incredibly tricky combat against formidable foes and about exploration on treacherous grounds. Give your character the ability to fly and rain down fire from above, and what have you got? A hack-and-slash game where you're not hacking or slashing anymore? An intricately designed and dangerous world that you can just pass by overhead? A hard game that's not hard anymore? It can be fun to just soar around on the back of a dragon, but then, are Souls games made primarily to be "fun"?

If From had a good idea for what would make dragon flight cool in a Souls game, then so be it, but it's not some missing piece in their repertoire; they already make good games, and they've still got much more to explore in open-world design. I don't hate the idea, but it's not high on my list.

The SSD can flight easier, technically (although way too much is made of how the HDD limited flight; GTA O and Just Cause and other open-world games have fast flight, the challenge of loading streams while flying isn't impenetrable if a developer really cared to make a game about flying,) but the technical challenge is the least of their worries. And a SSD solves none of the design challenges.

(BTW, when you talk about how games have this massive world just begging for flight... try flying over an open-world game such as Horizon Forbidden West or use the glitch suspension trick to get air in Forza Horizon 5 and see how limited the vertical scale actually is in these games. Even mountains are way off of the scale of height that they should be compared to the ground tile size. Big mountains in real life are 2, sometimes 3 or more miles high, and in-game mountains are never truly that high. Even the massive Mount Chiliad in GTA5 is just shy of a half-mile high by the game's scale. These game environments are meant to be experienced on the ground, and they build their illusion of a "world" based on you not seeing the landscape for what it really is.)
 
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Elden ring is my favorite game ever, but I would love to see more non hostiles, and rpg mechanics. Lemme get a home to build, interact with more npcs and not have every enemy attack me on a whim. Elden ring is perfect for what it tries to accomplish, so let it perfect something new.
 
Elden ring is my favorite game ever, but I would love to see more non hostiles, and rpg mechanics. Lemme get a home to build, interact with more npcs and not have every enemy attack me on a whim. Elden ring is perfect for what it tries to accomplish, so let it perfect something new.
Sooo....you want to play skyrim then?
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
Honestly, i don’t even want that.
The entire playable map suddenly becomes small and trivial as soon as you can fly.
 

GigaBowser

The bear of bad news
The engine their games use is definitely not capable of that:messenger_grinning_sweat:

It wouldn't be as terrible as flying mounts with the Skyrim engine, but it wouldn't be good either.
 
Like what?
For starters

Limited ant-man/giant-man like transform mechanic where the PC can take on the giant enemies on their own scale. Use the size and the environment to do actual believable damage (ex: break poise and slam the enemy against a castle/mountain etc).

Lure/trap mechanics - Use the open world to set traps and lure the enemies into it. Hints can be integrated into lore that would take a keen eye to decipher what it means and where and how to set the traps.

Basically anything that makes me feel like something other than a Pomeranian yapping at someone's feet.
 

bitbydeath

Gold Member
For starters

Limited ant-man/giant-man like transform mechanic where the PC can take on the giant enemies on their own scale. Use the size and the environment to do actual believable damage (ex: break poise and slam the enemy against a castle/mountain etc).

Lure/trap mechanics - Use the open world to set traps and lure the enemies into it. Hints can be integrated into lore that would take a keen eye to decipher what it means and where and how to set the traps.

Basically anything that makes me feel like something other than a Pomeranian yapping at someone's feet.
GoW3 did it well, allowing for the camera to zoom in and out when around giant enemies.


 
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