Support NeoGAF

[Monk]

So far the dual screen is the stupidest part of the DS. How are they going to prove that they made the right choice with the dual screen? Or has it already been proven and I am wrong? Is the second screen for maps, inventory or a substitue for a HUD good enough reason for it?

 

[AniHawk]

...I thought YT&G did an effective job with it.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

So far the dual screen is the stupidest part of the DS. How are they going to prove that they made the right choice with the dual screen? Or has it already been proven and I am wrong? Is the second screen for maps, inventory or a substitue for a HUD good enough reason for it?

I don't get it..

what do you want?

 

[Piepz]

Well... it would be cool, if DS had one badass touch screen (like PSP). But well... I dunno really

 

[Monk]

I don't get it..

what do you want?

A reason that they even needed a bulky clamshell design.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Has Monk proven the reason we needed this thread?

 

[Rorschach]

:lol

 

[Jonnyram]

I thought the second screen was pretty damned useful in Kirby actually. You don't look at it all the time (unlike Yoshi), but you do refer to it on a pretty regular basis. You guys probably won't get to play Brain Training, but that has awesome use of the two screens.

 

[Monk]

Has Monk proven the reason we needed this thread?

Don't you have non-games to play?

 

[Monk]

I thought the second screen was pretty damned useful in Kirby actually. You don't look at it all the time (unlike Yoshi), but you do refer to it on a pretty regular basis. You guys probably won't get to play Brain Training, but that has awesome use of the two screens.

Could you explain how Brain Training makes use of the second screen a little? I can't find that thread you(?) made on it.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Don't you have non-games to play?

yes, yes I do... and it uses the touch screen heavily

 

[AniHawk]

Could you explain how Brain Training makes use of the second screen a little? I can't find that thread you(?) made on it.

I think you hold the DS like you would a book. Questions/problems on the left side and answer on the right.

...Or it could be the other way around.

 

[Jonnyram]

Could you explain how Brain Training makes use of the second screen a little? I can't find that thread you(?) made on it.

You turn the DS 90 degrees and hold it like a book. The non-touch screen shows the question and you write on the touch screen. It works well because you don't have to be ultra-accurate with your writing - you can write without taking your eyes off the non-touch screen.

 

[Monk]

You turn the DS 90 degrees and hold it like a book. The non-touch screen shows the question and you write on the touch screen. It works well because you don't have to be ultra-accurate with your writing - you can write without taking your eyes off the non-touch screen.

Hmmm... very nice. Looks like I am getting a DS.

 

[AniHawk]

Hmmm... very nice. Looks like I am getting a DS.

...

 

[Smiles and Cries]

...

IAWTP

 

[Scrow]

:lol

^

 

[Monk]

:lol :lol :lol

EDIT: Sorry Ani, I read his first. I didn't read your post until now.

 

[Scott]

Mario & Luigi 2 sounds like it'll make good use of both screens:

Somehow, Mario and Luigi have been whisked off into the past to rescue Princess Peach, but who they encounter is pretty surprising: baby versions of themselves. Though the storyline hasn't been revealed yet, the gameplay requires both Mario and Luigi and Baby Mario and Baby Luigi to work together to solve puzzles along the way.

Baby Mario and Baby Luigi can be controlled independently using the X and Y buttons for specific commands, just as Mario and Luigi can be with the A and B buttons. In one situation, I had to use Baby Mario and Baby Luigi to rescue Mario and Luigi, and use Mario and Luigi to toss the two babies into a tree trunk...with the upper screen and lower screen keeping track of both pairs of plumbers in different locations. Which means there will be several instances where players will control both pairs in the separate locations at the same time.

Source: http://ds.ign.com/articles/616/616722p1.html

 

[neopokekun]

Here is a Brain Training movie that shows a few examples on how it works.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

is Brain training coming to US ?

 

[Mama Smurf]

Aside from what's been mentioned, FPS like Metroid Prime Hunters and Goldeneye and whatever else is coming pretty much require 2 screens, given no analogue stick.

You could of course argue that we should have had analogue sticks instead of the second screen, but I think it's actually more accurate for FPS. And that would ignore all the other things in the thread anyway.

The thing about the second screen is, even if it doesn't push some sort of revolutionary feature that absolutely requires it, it does tend to make games better. I mean sure, a map's not going to wow anyone, any game can have a map as you just have to pause and go to another screen, but on the DS it's just more convenient. So I don't see the second screen as hurting the DS, it can only really benefit it (even if only by a tiny amount for some games).

As for being able to eliminate the clamshell design without a second screen...well, I dunno about you guys, but I wouldn't want a touchscreen exposed all the time! It's bad enough when a scratch shows up on a screen you don't have to touch, but it could complete fuck up touchscreen gaming. I think even if it was one screen we'd have ended up with a clamshell design, just for protection.

 

[sprsk]

if youve played kirby and you think the 2nd screen is useless then you probably dont have many medals.

anyway sonic rush does for 2 screens what kirby does for touching imo.

 

[Ruzbeh]

Don't forget first person shooters on the DS. You need a thumbstrap to aim well (or so I hear). So, your thumb would block the view if there was only one screen.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

thumb-strap ROCKS ..

perfect controls for FPS after the mouse+keyboard..

 

[Great King Bowser]

Second screen on Mario Kart was awesome. Adds another degree of strategy seeing weapons in front and behind you on the map screen. :lol

 

[gunstarhero]

anyway sonic rush does for 2 screens what kirby does for touching imo.

I agree - Sonic and to a lesser extent, Yoshi use the dual screen nicely. It's to bad there is so much "plastic" inbetween the 2 screens though.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

I agree - Sonic and to a lesser extent, Yoshi use the dual screen nicely. It's to bad there is so much "plastic" inbetween the 2 screens though.

my ONLY point against the DS

but its not a big deal .. should be fixed by DS2

 

[Mama Smurf]

Yeah, it's a shame DS revisions won't be able to fix that. Even if they make the thing smaller, they'll have to keep the same gap between the screens, unless they want every game to have to be programmed for two seperate gaps, which no developer is going to be happy with.

Actually I suppose only games played across the 2 screens as a single screen (like Sonic) would be a problem, something like Mario Kart would be fine.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

they can make it as an option??

you can slide the top screen down to stick it to the buttom screen, or just leave the normal space there for older games.

 

[Mama Smurf]

That's an interesting idea, though I've honestly no idea how practical. I don't know enough about these sort of things to know if you could do that.

I doubt you could get the screens actually touching. On the current DS, if you moved the hinges to the side of the screens you could probably get them half a centimetre closer, but that's about it.

 

[Stinkles]

I played that stupid ladyboy rainbow shit last night. Although the process made me become a small girl, it was rad. Wario Ware sucked balls though.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

A reason that they even needed a bulky clamshell design.

Screen protection. Double usable system face area without significantly changing the system volume in your pocket. Double viewing area. Allows for instances where the top screen is the "screen" screen, and the bottom screen is the "extension of controller" screen.

 

[Akia]

Sonic Rush works the 2 screens wonderfully. But the Brain Training 2 screen usage is tight.

 

[Mashing]

Sonic DS seems to make great use of the 2 screens based on impressions from E3.

 

[Justin Bailey]

Yeah, it's a shame DS revisions won't be able to fix that. Even if they make the thing smaller, they'll have to keep the same gap between the screens, unless they want every game to have to be programmed for two seperate gaps, which no developer is going to be happy with.

Actually I suppose only games played across the 2 screens as a single screen (like Sonic) would be a problem, something like Mario Kart would be fine.

I'm not sure about other games, but the Mario64 mini games that use both screens don't seem take the gap into consideration when playing. Like, once you threw a shell to the upper screen you would see the top of it as soon as it left the bottom screen.

 

[sc0la]

the big failing of thefact that it has dual screens is that both are not touch sceens.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I'm not sure about other games, but the Mario64 mini games that use both screens don't seem take the gap into consideration when playing. Like, once you threw a shell to the upper screen you would see the top of it as soon as it left the bottom screen.

They're not perfectly matched up, but I don't think the virtual gap is as big as the real one, either.

EDIT: Here I'm talking about my most-played minigame, with the many bouncing green and red shells. It wouldn't surprise me if it differed per game, and some of the more static ones like Wario's pachinko-alike had no gap.

 

[sammy]

It was pretty proven with the very first Metroid demo --- on a DS fps you're 'look' hand doesn't have as much ability to use available buttons, so they're presented on the touch-screen...

at most on a DS fps you have two buttons (L and R) ---- (select and start if you're a lefty...)
The extra selections on the touch-screen are dynamic according to the game (reloading weapons on Goldeneye is nice, so it switching weapons ... ball-mode and weapons selections in Metroid) - That's just too much to have on the 'view' screen.

I can't see 2 screens really being an insane innovation anytime soon - but is is a great complement to the touch-screen for most games ....
at E3, is was nice having a map on Castlevania ----- I'm one of those people that pauses every 6 second on a Castlevania game, it was great just having the map in display. ---- not insanely innovative, but something to help smooth out the pacing.

The map in Kirby is great - and essential if you're set out to look for all the secrets/coins ... once again the 2nd screen complements the touch-screen stuff 'getting in the way' on the touch screen is a lot more detramental in a game where you need to use a stylus.

The best use so far has been Animal Crossing --- the switchin inventory is just amazing ... having use of yoru inventory and the top screen displays your character as you try stuff out ---- pluss i hear you can draw star-constelations for your town on the top screen, and presents fload by on it for you to shoot down.

 

[StRaNgE]

Bulky? i don't get that comment?

i just got one yesterday and folded up it is slighly longer then my wallet and much THINNER

 

[chinch]

So far the dual screen is the stupidest part of the DS. How are they going to prove that they made the right choice with the dual screen?

The dual screen & touchpad works well for my 12 year old nephew and his two little brothers.

 

[Sagitario]

Map on Castlevania and Metroid... enough said...

 

[Bluemercury]

Map on Castlevania and Metroid... enough said...

Pple actually joke about the map thing, but these 2 games are probably the ones which actually do really benefit from having 2 screens, can pple actually remember how many times they pressed the start button to see where were they in the map????

 

[Kobun Heat]

There's a fantastic game coming out called EFWIS that's going to make great use of all the DS' features watch for it! WAIT FOR SPACEWORLD etc etc

 

[jarrod]

I'd trade out a second screen for dual analogs in a second. The touch screen is a fantastic concept though, it should be standard in all handheld game machines from here on out.

 

[StoOgE]

Two touch screens would have been hot.. but, I think Yoshi was able to make a very difficult gameplay mechanic out of the fact that you COULDNT do anything with the top screen.

 

[Wario64]

Nintendo has proven the touch screen's worth with Kirby but...

so all those other games before Kirby were just a gimmick?

 

[jarrod]

so all those other games before Kirby were just a gimmick?

I think Kirby's the first non puzzle/minigame collection in the US to pull off touch interface very well. Yoshi too, but that doesn't feel like a full fledged game.

 

[Senretsu]

Here is a Brain Training movie that shows a few examples on how it works.

shit! that's awesome. I was mezmerized by the movie, and interesting use of the change in DS axis. But I mean who doesn't need brain training?