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No HDR with 1440p/120fps on Xbox Series S/X

xion4360

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HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 ok I tested this and it's actually true... wtf? ok people have to bring Microsoft's attention to this, because that's kinda stupid, this has to be a really dumb oversight.

when I start a game that has HDR the system doesn't actually use HDR and the auto HDR option is greyed out if you go into the game's compatibility options
its been like that since Xbox One S and you only just now noticed..obviously its not that big a deal.
 

01011001

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its been like that since Xbox One S and you only just now noticed..obviously its not that big a deal.

well I never set my One X or One S to 120hz and I only would do that to play 120fps games... which these 2 don't really have... well there are like 2 games or so that actually run unlocked and would get above 60fps on One X, but that's not really a good use case xD

that's why I didn't notice. every time I set my system to 1440p I do so to play 120hz games, and in that mode my TV doesn't support HDR to begin with. I never actually tried setting it to 1440p60 and see if HDR works because why would I on a 4K screen?

it is a big deal for PC Monitor users that only have 1440p or 1080p as an option
 
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xion4360

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well I never set my One X or One S to 120hz and I only would do that to play 120fps games... which these 2 don't really have... well there are like 2 games or so that actually run unlocked and would get above 60fps on One X, but that's not really a good use case xD

that's why I didn't notice. every time I set my system to 1440p I do so to play 120hz games, and in that mode my TV doesn't support HDR to begin with. I never actually tried setting it to 1440p60 and see if HDR works

it is a big deal for PC Monitor users that only have 1440p or 1080p as an option

I see...Ive had 3 4K tvs with HDR they all are the same way. a sony, a samsung and an LG, thats why im quite certain about how the xbox treats HDR with TV's, but I dont have any HDR monitors. also 120 htz is just great...lower input lag across the board and it really helps the framerate in some games...im not sure why but if you play the The Dark Pictures games at 60 htz its very choppy, but at 120 htz its much smoother..maybe the Vsync is changed.

PS5 should allow 120 htz output at all times.
 
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AnotherOne

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01011001

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I see...Ive had 3 4K tvs with HDR they all are the same way. a sony, a samsung and an LG, thats why im quite certain about how the xbox treats HDR with TV's, but I dont have any HDR monitors. also 120 htz is just great...lower input lag across the board and it really helps the framerate in some games...im not sure why but if you play the The Dark Pictures games at 60 htz its very choppy, but at 120 htz its much smoother..maybe the Vsync is changed.

PS5 should allow 120 htz output at all times.

at 120hz the TV refreshes faster and that can make dropped frames less noticeable because the frametime becomes more even instead of jumping between 33ms and 16ms all the time like it would in 60hz

Digital Foundry actually recommended setting the One X to 120hz when playing Sekiro exactly because of that reason

look at the frametime graph bottom left when it switches from 120hz to 60hz
 
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01011001

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Even 60 fps games benefit from 120hz, because it's a system wide setting on xbox; it drastically reduces input lag on my TV.

true, but the reduction I would get is only really noticeable in games where my muscle memory is trained for low input lag. 17ms is low enough for me at 4K60 usually... only in Apex Legends, which I usually play on a gaming Monitor, does this really hinder me.
usually the small amount of additional lag is worth it for the better image quality.
 

Bernd Lauert

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Just a reminder that most HDR monitors are a scam. They're not bright enough to enable actual HDR, and even if they are, they have terrible local dimming. Ironically, the best HDR monitor is a TV (LG 48 CX OLED).
 

Fredrik

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Is this a screen issue?
Or is 120fps with HDR a no-no even on a new HDMI 2.1 TV?

I got 1080p 120 working on my 4yo TV, but no HDR. I was starting to consider upgrading, definitely don’t want to do that if I don’t get HDR.
 
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xion4360

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Is this a screen issue?
Or is 120fps with HDR a no-no even on a new HDMI 2.1 TV?

I got 1080p 120 working on my 4yo TV, but no HDR. I was starting to consider upgrading, definitely don’t want to do that if I don’t get HDR.
As long as its 4k you will get hdr.

4K HDR 120 fps with full chroma is possible with hdmi 2.1
 
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ShirAhava

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EDIT. NVM misread the thread
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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Just a reminder that most HDR monitors are a scam. They're not bright enough to enable actual HDR, and even if they are, they have terrible local dimming. Ironically, the best HDR monitor is a TV (LG 48 CX OLED).

What makes OLED shine for HDR is the contrast not so much overall peak brightness.

Having a C9 myself I would almost bet my LG 27GN950 monitor hits peak brightness very close to OLED just lacking in contrast
 

Kuranghi

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I've read every post and I'm still trying to parse what the actual issue is here and why you can and can't output HDR in certain modes.

Do you need HDMI 2.1 to get 1440p@120+HDR?
Why doesn't 1440p@120+HDR work on the OPs display?
Is it because of the HW in the display, the HDMI spec in the display or its the console itself when combined with the former issues?

Whats the dealio here.
 

ethomaz

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I've read every post and I'm still trying to parse what the actual issue is here and why you can and can't output HDR in certain modes.

Do you need HDMI 2.1 to get 1440p@120+HDR?
Why doesn't 1440p@120+HDR work on the OPs display?
Is it because of the HW in the display, the HDMI spec in the display or its the console itself when combined with the former issues?

Whats the dealio here.
From what I understand your monitor should support 4k signal even if it is a 1440p panel.

If not Series X won’t allow 120Hz + HDR because it doesn’t send 1080p or 1440p 120hz HDR signal.

It will only send 4k 120Hz HDR.

If your monitor accept 4k signal it is fine because it will downscale the 4k signal and you won’t lose the HDR but if it doesn’t accept 4k signal the console will send the 1080p or 1440p 120Hz signal without HDR.

That is auto by the Series X and no matter what forced settings you try the console will auto change if your motor doesn’t support 4k signal.

People or have a 1440p panel that supports 4k signal or is just having placebo thinking it is using HDR.
 
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Kuranghi

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From what I understand your monitor should support 4k signal even if it is a 1440p panel.

If not Series X won’t allow 120Hz + HDR because it doesn’t send 1080p or 1440p 120hz HDR signal.

It will only send 4k 120Hz HDR.

If your monitor accept 4k signal it is fine because it will downscale the 4k signal and you won’t lose the HDR but if it doesn’t accept 4k signal the console will send the 1080p or 1440p 120Hz signal without HDR.

That is auto by the Series X and no matter what forced settings you try the console will auto change if your motor doesn’t support 4k signal.

People or have a 1440p panel that supports 4k signal or is just having placebo thinking it is using HDR.

Oh thanks mate, I think that clears it up. I wonder if they added 1440p@120hz output support to PS5 HDMI 2.0b users, if you'll be able to get HDR with it.

If not I'd probably just stick with 4K60+HDR until I have a 2.1 set.
 

HeisenbergFX4

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From what I understand your monitor should support 4k signal even if it is a 1440p panel.

If not Series X won’t allow 120Hz + HDR because it doesn’t send 1080p or 1440p 120hz HDR signal.

It will only send 4k 120Hz HDR.

If your monitor accept 4k signal it is fine because it will downscale the 4k signal and you won’t lose the HDR but if it doesn’t accept 4k signal the console will send the 1080p or 1440p 120Hz signal without HDR.

That is auto by the Series X and no matter what forced settings you try the console will auto change if your motor doesn’t support 4k signal.

People or have a 1440p panel that supports 4k signal or is just having placebo thinking it is using HDR.

I own the Samsung 27CHG70 and will test this when I get back to Indiana but I texted my son who owns the 32" version of this and he finally got back to me.

Both of these monitors accept a 4k signal from the Playstation but for Xbox it wont even let him check 4k as its grayed out because Xbox wont let us force a resolution that the monitor doesnt natively have which is dumb but thats a different problem.

That said this monitor is a 1440 144hz that works with the Xbox 1440 120 update and is HDR 600 and HDR kicks in on this monitor as well but probably again because it accepts a 4k signal but Xbox doesnt see it accepting a 4k signal, if that makes sense
 
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ethomaz

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I own the Samsung 27CHG70 and will test this when I get back to Indiana but I texted my son who owns the 32" version of this and he finally got back to me.

Both of these monitors accept a 4k signal from the Playstation but for Xbox it wont even let him check 4k as its grayed out because Xbox wont let us force a resolution that the monitor doesnt natively have which is dumb but thats a different problem.

That said this monitor is a 1440 144hz that works with the Xbox 1440 120 update and is HDR 600 and HDR kicks in on this monitor as well but probably again because it accepts a 4k signal but Xbox doesnt see it accepting a 4k signal, if that makes sense
That is surprising... but it is another issue indeed.

Maybe the Xbox see it accepts 4k signal but knows it is a 1440p native panel? So he disable 4k signal but allow HDR.

It is I believe a question of bandwidth... 1440p monitor that accept 4k signal have more bandwidth on the HDMI port than these that doesn't accept 4k signal... in fact the feature "accept 4k signal" only exists in models that the HDMI have higher bandwidth.
So Series X defines that actual implementation the 1440p 120Hz HDR requires a monitor that have bandwidth to accept 4k signal.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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That is surprising... but it is another issue indeed.

Maybe the Xbox see it accepts 4k signal but knows it is a 1440p native panel? So he disable 4k signal but allow HDR.

Yeah this was my first 1440p monitor and loved this VA panel as the smearing usually associated with VA isnt that bad on this panel and it downscaled the PS4 Pro 4k signal to 1440 and worked with the Xbox 1440 120 update for the Xbox One X but not many games used that mode and reverted to 1080p.

I wish Xbox would let us manually set that resolution like Playstation as I would have much rather stayed in 4k.
 

AGeraltFellFromRoof

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This could be on both Xbox or the monitor itself.

I myself running a Series X on a Gigabyte G32QC which has a 1440p 165 hz panel. It's also Freesync Premium Pro therefore I theoretically should not have any problem running 120 hz and HDR simultaneously. The monitor also has a console mode which allows it to accept 4K signal then downscales it.

Here is what I'm experiencing. If I set my console 1440p@120hz I get 120hz on supported games and VRR works, but HDR does not kick in no matter what (allow 4K unchecked).

If I set my console 4K@60 hz, the monitor downscales 4K signal to 1440p and I get HDR. VRR also works (allow 4K checked).

And lastly, the funny part, if I set my console to 1440p@120 hz and check Allow 4K option, I get HDR, but I lose 120 hz. When I launch a game screen goes black for a second then displays 4K@60 with HDR. This is probably due to my monitor's EDID values, as it is a HDMI 2.0 monitor Xbox thinks it can't handle 4K 120 Hz with HDR, which is true. Gigabyte could potentially change the monitor's EDID to say it can accept 4K 120hz with HDR, the it accepts the signal and downscales it to 2K, HDR and 120 hz untouched. But that is probably impossible due to HDMI limitations.

So only hope to get 1440p@120hz with HDR is Microsoft's implementation. I read somewhere on Reddit that they are working on it but nothing official so far. My monitor is HDR400 capable and has around 430 nits of max luminance, therefore I do not care about HDR as much as I do about 120 hz and VRR, but I also don't agree with those saying HDR400 won't make a difference anyway. It makes a difference, and would be a nice to have.

So far, I'm playing single player games on 4K@60 with HDR. Most of them don't support 120 hz anyways so it's fine. However, I feel additional lag in this mode probably due to the downscaler, so it is not ideal. For multiplayer games, if they support 120 hz, I switch back to 1440p@120 with Allow 4K unchecked mode, it feels much better.
 
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xion4360

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Yeah this was my first 1440p monitor and loved this VA panel as the smearing usually associated with VA isnt that bad on this panel and it downscaled the PS4 Pro 4k signal to 1440 and worked with the Xbox 1440 120 update for the Xbox One X but not many games used that mode and reverted to 1080p.

I wish Xbox would let us manually set that resolution like Playstation as I would have much rather stayed in 4k.

are you able to see the htz output info somewhere on the monitor? because im guessing it will be 60. meaning the xbox switches to a 4K 60 output to allow HDR since your monitor will take it.

what do you mean the xbox reverts to 1080p? if you manually have it at 1440p 120 htz it will always display that output unless you have allow 4K checked.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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are you able to see the htz output info somewhere on the monitor? because im guessing it will be 60. meaning the xbox switches to a 4K 60 output to allow HDR since your monitor will take it.

what do you mean the xbox reverts to 1080p? if you manually have it at 1440p 120 htz it will always display that output unless you have allow 4K checked.

This was on the Xbox One X and at that time very few games used the 1440 120 update and Xbox wouldnt give you the option to allow 4k on that 1440 monitor even though Playstation PS4 Pro would.

But no I couldnt see the Hz on that display
 
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dcx4610

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Just to clarify, this is specifically an Xbox One S/X and Series S/X issue. You can do HDR in Windows at 1440p and Sony allows HDR at 1080p on the PS4/5 (They don't support 1440 at all currently).

If you go into your Xbox settings there's a button called "4K TV Details" which will give you a summary of what your display supports. Mine shows it supports 1440p at 120hz, HDR, etc. If you go into the display settings and uncheck the "Allow 4K" box and check that button again, it says that HDR is not supported on the display. So Microsoft is basically tying HDR to 4K resolution.

This isn't a problem if you have a 4K/HDMI 2.1 TV or 4K HDMI 2.0 monitor. For those of us with 1440p displays though, it looks like we have to choose between having 1440p/120fps without HDR or 2160p/60fps with HDR. I wish there was a way to get a response on why this is or if there is a firmware update planned. There are a ton of Reddit and Microsoft Support posts about it but no response. If they didn't fix it on the One S/X, it's not looking good for the Series S/X. I think they just assume you are connecting the console to a 4K TV and haven't put the effort into fully supporting computer monitors.
 
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Kuranghi

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As you say, It would be so much better if both MS and Sony just let you control everything about the output, put it in an advanced menu and have a message saying you might fuck things up and have to manually reset the video output using safe mode or the like, to specific issues like this.

Its weird that Sony don't support 1440p but DO support forced resolutions (Just about to test this myself with 1080p@120 on my ZD9, which rtings says must be forced to work) and MS do support 1440p but have this issue.

Hopefully there is a fix for both issues soon.

If they add 8-bit+dithering as an option instead of 10-bit for HDR as well, I'll kiss all of you on on the mouth:

 

xion4360

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Its weird that Sony don't support 1440p but DO support forced resolutions (Just about to test this myself with 1080p@120 on my ZD9, which rtings says must be forced to work) and MS do support 1440p but have this issue.

what do you mean exactly about PS systems supporting forced resolutions? do you mean with HDR content?

As far as I can see the xbox is better with this, HDR aside. On XBOX you can select the resolution, refresh rate and bit depth and output that at all times...on PS you can only select the resolution while bit depth and refresh rate are kind of automatic/out of your control.
 
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Kuranghi

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what do you mean exactly about PS systems supporting forced resolutions? do you mean with HDR content?

As far as I can see the xbox is better with this, HDR aside. On XBOX you can select the resolution, refresh rate and bit depth and output that at all times...on PS you can only select the resolution while bit depth and refresh rate are kind of automatic/out of your control.

I mean that someone said earlier in this thread that PS5 supports 1080p@120hz even if the display doesn't support it natively and it must be forced. I force 1080p@120 and 1440p@120 on my PC so I'm about to go try that on PS5 by seting my res to 1080p and see if I get 120hz output.

I agree its better on Xbox, I wish I could set my bit depth manually.
 

xion4360

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I mean that someone said earlier in this thread that PS5 supports 1080p@120hz even if the display doesn't support it natively and it must be forced. I force 1080p@120 and 1440p@120 on my PC so I'm about to go try that on PS5 by seting my res to 1080p and see if I get 120hz output.

I agree its better on Xbox, I wish I could set my bit depth manually.

Please let me know how that goes because im curious 😅🙂
 
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Kuranghi

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Please let me know how that goes because im curious 😅

Big issue I just ran into... I have no games that support 120hz :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Maybe at least the OS will be 1080p@120hz, is what I'm hoping. To make sure its working.
 

HeisenbergFX4

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Not with 4:4:4

Most of my games I don't care about true full HDR especially from my monitor sitting 3 feet from my face.

I only slightly care about that when watching a movie.

I turn anything HDR related off in the evenings while on my monitor and only use HDR through the day because my one wall is all sliding doors and the sun light coming through in my office makes seeing any screen kind of tough.
 

DeepEnigma

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I just checked on my XSX. You can set it to 1080p and still get HDR. So it being locked to 4K is FUD that's being repeated across multiple posts in this thread.
That would make no sense either because you can have HDR on the base PS4 and that is a 1080p box.
 

ethomaz

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Big issue I just ran into... I have no games that support 120hz :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Maybe at least the OS will be 1080p@120hz, is what I'm hoping. To make sure its working.
I believe you can play Destiny 2 in 120Hz on PS5.
 
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DeepEnigma

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The xbox one S supported 4k output. Its the only way you get HDR. If anyone wants to say hdr works with 1080 or 1440 output you will have to prove it.
Are you talking MS specifically, or in general?

The PS4 is only 1080p output and has supported HDR for 5 years now, and you can get 1080p HDR displays.

I still use my OG launch PS4 on my X90H, and some of the games in HDR are phenomenal. Especially Housemarque games, Ghost of Tsushima, etc..
 
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ethomaz

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That would make no sense either because you can have HDR on the base PS4 and that is a 1080p box.
His claim was flat out wrong to begin with because you can only get 1080p 120Hz HDR if his TV supports 4k (that is not the OP issue) or he is not understanding how his Series X works... so no point to argue.
 
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Kuranghi

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The output information screen on PS5 doesn't tell you what modes are available at the resolution you are currently at unfortunately, when I changed it to 1080p it still just listed all the refresh rates (+ chroma) available for 4K. So I guess it just goes by the native resolution, it might still work but it doesn't tell you there.

I'll try downloading Destiny 2 and see if it works there. If it works then I just need 1440p support to be added (seems unlikely unfort) and I can do 1440p@120. From the tech breakdowns I've seen most of the games that do have 120hz modes, they aren't even running much 1440p anyway, if ever. Although I'm sure I'll incur more input lag than with 4K output.

I thought xion4360 xion4360 meant 1080p and 1440p with HDR at 120hz doesn't, not 1080p or 1440p with HDR at 60hz.

edit - Right now I'm downloading 65GB of Destiny 2 just to see if something that probably doesn't work works, what the hell am I doing with my time lol
 
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ethomaz

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The output information screen on PS5 doesn't tell you what modes are available at the resolution you are currently at unfortunately, when I changed it to 1080p it still just listed all the refresh rates (+ chroma) available for 4K. So I guess it just goes by the native resolution, it might still work but it doesn't tell you there.

I'll try downloading Destiny 2 and see if it works there. If it works then I just need 1440p support to be added (seems unlikely unfort) and I can do 1440p@120. From the tech breakdowns I've seen most of the games that do have 120hz modes, they aren't even running much 1440p anyway, if ever. Although I'm sure I'll incur more input lag than with 4K output.

I thought xion4360 xion4360 meant 1080p and 1440p with HDR at 120hz doesn't, not 1080p or 1440p with HDR at 60hz.
You need to see on TV if it is receiving the HDR.
 

Kuranghi

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You need to see on TV if it is receiving the HDR.

I will do, but right now I'm just seeing if I can even get 1080p@120 on my display since its not natively supported, only 1440p@120 is. I didnt bother checking before because I assumed the PS5 wouldn't output modes that the display doesn't expose to it and I had no games that supported it, we'll see how D2 fairs in a moment.
 
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xion4360

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No ive just been saying that on xbox hdr only works with 4k at 60 or 120.

Also Dolby Vision only seems to work at 60 htz, but not sure if locked to 4K also, will see later
 
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xion4360

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alright did some more testing on the CX.. heres what the Xbox puts out..it maxes out at 40 GBPS, same as the TV.

the xbox series x will only use HDMI 2.1 signaling method at 4K 120 htz (40 gbps at 10 bit 444 (HDR OR SDR), 32 gbps at 8 bit 444, or 24 gbps at 12 bit 420)
all other resolutions use TMDS (HDMI 2.0)

4K 60 in SDR is 8 bit 444, 10 bit 420 or 12 bit 420...
HDR is 420 or 422 depending on if you allow 422..the bit depth says 8 bit because for whatever reason the CX doesnt give you the correct bit depth when using HDMI 2.0 at 4K 60...it should be 10 bit.

NO HDR beyond this.

1440p 120 is 8 bit 444...it wont register 1440p 60 on this TV. changing bit depth will do nothing.

1080p 60 and 120 is 8 bit 444, 10 bit 444 or 12 bit 444 because it all falls within 18gbps.

720p 60 is same as 1080p naturally but 720p 120 is not supported on the TV.

Dolby Vision only works at 4K 60 with 12bit 422 (the TV says 8 bit but thats just an error)
If you have your TV set to 120 htz it just switches to 60 when dolby vision content comes up.

On the PLAYSTATION 5 its much simpler...HDR is always supported.
HDMI 2.1
4K 120 at 12 bit 422 (32 gbps seems to be the max on the PS5 right now or maybe thats it for the chipset)
4K 60 12 bit 444

everything below this is also 12 bit 444 but using HDMI 2.0 TMDS
 
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ethomaz

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alright did some more testing on the CX.. heres what the Xbox puts out..it maxes out at 40 GBPS, same as the TV.

the xbox series x will only use HDMI 2.1 signaling method at 4K 120 htz (40 gbps at 10 bit 444 (HDR OR SDR), 32 gbps at 8 bit 444, or 24 gbps at 12 bit 420)
all other resolutions use TMDS (HDMI 2.0)

4K 60 in SDR is 8 bit 444, 10 bit 420 or 12 bit 420...
HDR is 420 or 422 depending on if you allow 422..the bit depth says 8 bit because for whatever reason the CX doesnt give you the correct bit depth when using HDMI 2.0 at 4K 60...it should be 10 bit.

NO HDR beyond this.

1440p 120 is 8 bit 444...it wont register 1440p 60 on this TV. changing bit depth will do nothing.

1080p 60 and 120 is 8 bit 444, 10 bit 444 or 12 bit 444 because it all falls within 18gbps.

720p 60 is same as 1080p naturally but 720p 120 is not supported on the TV.

Dolby Vision only works at 4K 60 with 12bit 422 (the TV says 8 bit but thats just an error)
If you have your TV set to 120 htz it just switches to 60 when dolby vision content comes up.

On the PLAYSTATION 5 its much simpler...HDR is always supported.
HDMI 2.1
4K 120 at 12 bit 422 (32 gbps seems to be the max on the PS5 right now or maybe thats it for the chipset)
4K 60 12 bit 444

everything below this is also 12 bit 444 but using HDMI 2.0 TMDS
I was reading some Reddit posts and that seems correct... it is weird but seems like MS is working to give HDR in lower resolutions.

PS5 do it better but lacks the 1440p support.
 

ManaByte

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Also Dolby Vision only seems to work at 60 htz, but not sure if locked to 4K also, will see later
That’s due to the displays. HDMI 2.1 TVs only allow you to do either Dolby Vision or 120hz on the 2.1 ports. You can’t do both.

On my X90J I have one 2.1 port set to Dolby Vision and the other to 120hz.