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NPD Sept. 2022: PS5 No. 1 units; PS5 No. 1 revenue; FIFA No. 1; NBA2k3 No. 3; Splatoon No. 4; LoUP1 No. 5

Oof85

Member
1994:
Gamers: we want third party games and mature ones!
Nintendo: our insistence on Cartridges makes it hard for other companies to put their games on our system
Sega: our horribly convoluted designed system fucked us over
Sony: here you go

2000:
Gamers: we want more mature third and first party games, and a DVD player!
Nintendo: our console can't play DVDs but it can play miniDVDs
Microsoft: i just entered, what do i do? i've also got this halo thing
Sony: here you go

2006:
Gamers: we want online multiplayer
Sony: ah sorry about that we don't have much of that right now, buy our 600 dollar console though
Nintendo: mOTIoN CONtROL!!!
MIcrosoft, for once: here you go.

2013
Gamers: We want more mature, story driven games made specifically by your first party studios!
Nintendo: we don't have that but we do have this clunky console with an oversized controller
Microsoft: We don't really have first party games but we do have Kinect and DRM!
Sony: here you go

and motherfuckers wonder why their systems sell like hotcakes every time they release a new one. gamers ask for something, sony provides it, they win the generation. other companies falter because they are out of touch.
This is a misread of the videogame history, as its only telling half the story.

Nintendo's first forays into the game arena was either arcade or portable.

They've never lost a generation on the portable front, while yes they did stumble, severely at times on the home console end a few times.

But the real read of what the market wants is the bestseller lists and no publisher is more represented there than Nintendo.

It's how we know that the most popular ice cream flavor is vanilla and the most desired fast food chain is McDonald's.

Sony makes great consoles and I loved their first two dearly, but their games aren't the most desired nor is the hardware always well designed(Cell anyone).
But they are the market leader due to inertia and baseline quality, atm.

But this can change, and I think Microsoft is aiming all guns at their headquarters.
 

Nautilus

Banned
Sure, but they are never getting back to those DS numbers, mobile gaming is so wide open now that competing against phones is damn near impossible. I fucking read some shit like COD mobile having 600 million downloads or something lol Of that, its like 78 million live at any time.

Thats just 1 game.

Its funny cause that isn't even the biggest, I nearly lost my shit looking up that data as some of those games have downloads in the deep, deep hundreds of millions if not a billion downloads or more and i never even heard of em.

They will never get that base, I think DS number are at a time before we see that massive serge in Phone games being a legit thing, once that base is gone to facebook games and mobile stuff, its unlikely we'll see that number return, so I think they are doing great with Switch based on how that market is right now.
Nah, its possible.

I forget where exactly Switch sales are right now, but I believe they are between 110 and 120 million. In its 6th(!) hear on the market, the Switch will probably do around 20 million, without a price cut.

Considering that DS is at 155 million, and that 10th gen is still at least a year away, and that the Switch wont stop selling just because Nintendo launched a new gen, passing DS numbers is still a strong possibility.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
They will never get that base
Who knows - much like MS and Sony eventually had to accept that putting first party hits on PC is better for their bottom-line, Nintendo might get there with theirs one day for mobile.
It's not like they are ignoring mobile either - as of second half of last decade their two biggest IPs are hyper popular on mobile - it's really just the final step of getting over the fear of cannibalizing their console market and allow actual titles to cross-over too (and IMO writing is on the wall this will happen before long).
 

vivftp

Member
Last of us remake at fifth spot? sheesh i guess the negativity surrounding the LOU2 really did a number on this franchise.

- This is a remake, not a new, original game. You MIGHT have the making of an argument if this were The Last of Us 3, but it's not.
- The is a remake of a game that's available only on a platform that's still heavily supply constrained and has a far smaller userbase of people who CAN buy it compared to any other games above it on the chart. As of the end of last quarter there were only 21.61 million PS5's sold. We'll get updated sales figures in just over a week.
- This is a remake of a game that's still available to PS5 owners in the form of a remaster, if they choose to play it that way. Not to mention the remaster is available to every single one of the nearly 50 million PS+ subscribers as part of the PS+ Collection.


TLOU Part 1 is placed pretty much where it should have placed, given the nature of what it is and the circumstances of the platform it's released on. No one would or should ever expect it to be chart topping. It's not a realistic expectation.

Just in case anyone wishes to jump on the, "this remake never should have existed" bandwagon, I'll just drop this here to give better perspective into the origin of the project and how it's beneficial to Naughty Dog, Sony and gamers (new and old):

We know the story of why TLOU Remake exists. I'll try to outline it as best as I can from the info Jason provided and the info I've gathered from others here. Keep in mind this is not a 100% factual retelling of what happened, but I think it's the closest we'll get:

- Around 2019 or maybe a bit earlier a team from VASG formed a plan to create a new internal dev studio within SIE. The easiest way to sell the idea to the higher-ups was to propose a remake of an existing game as that's SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than a brand new game. The first thought about remaking Uncharted 1, but that game was so old that the cost, time and effort to upgrade it to modern standards would just be too much. So they picked TLOU to remake as it wasn't too old and they got the go-ahead

- Around 2019 work began on TLOU Remake with VASG heading it up in collaboration with Naughty Dog

- As time went on the budget of the remake was exceeding that of a typical remake budget for SIE

- As Naughty Dog was working on TLOU2 they were also working on its MP component and apparently its ambitions kept growing and growing to the point where it was just too large to just be a tacked on MP mode. They decided to spin it off into its own separate stand alone project.

- As TLOU2 got closer to wrapping Naughty Dog faced an issue. Historically when they were wrapping a game they'd have already spent time to work on their next big game and would have it in pre-production, ready to go. That didn't happen this time because TLOU2 was an all hands on deck situation that left them with no opportunity to do their normal pre-production process. The pre-production phase didn't begin until closer to TLOU2 wrapping up

- The other problem was that historically once Naughty Dog wrapped a big project they would let go of a significant chunk of their work force as they didn't need to keep those highly paid folk on the payroll while their next project was spinning up. Those folks would literally be sitting there twiddling their thumbs as their services wouldn't be needed until the new project was further into production, so ND would normally let them go and then later go on a hiring spree once the staff was needed. The problem here of course is that it'd take time for the new hires to learn their tech and acclimate to their studio culture. This issue would only be made worse by the previous point which was that they didn't have their next project ready to go, meaning a longer period until these folks would have been needed. This was a cycle they apparently wanted to break

- So Naughty Dog had a large window where a large chunk of their staff wouldn't be needed for their next big project for a while, so what to do? They had the Factions 2 project still underway, and they had this TLOU Remake project that they were tied to. As time went on more of their staff was put on the TLOU Remake project to keep them busy, as well as the Factions 2 project (apparently the TLOU2 Director's Cut project too since that exists and Uncharted Legacy of Thieves since ND made the PS5 port). The budget for the remake was still higher than what was allocated for a typical Sony remake, especially for a brand new studio trying to prove themselves (VASG) so Sony moved the project under Naughty Dog who have a far larger allocated budget to play with.

Between that move and more people from ND being put onto the project the VASG folks who started this initiative felt pushed out and that it was no longer their project so a bunch of them left. While we don't really have much info, I'm sure Naughty Dog and VASG are both still working on the TLOU Remake together. We also know that Bend is assisting Naughty Dog with Factions 2.


So those are the events that led to these projects existing. A simple, logical and easy to follow series of events that explain why these projects are here. So no, asking for them to have chosen another game to remake, or to make another original game just wouldn't have worked. Those would have required even more time and funding over what they already had in the pipeline and would have eaten into their efforts to push their next big project out the door, which they've been working on since TLOU2 wrapped.

TLOU Remake, Factions 2, Uncharted LoT and TLOU2 Director's Cut are helping to fill that void until they can get their next big project out the door and are helping the studio in multiple ways:

- Naughty Dog are able to retain the bulk of their staff and keep them occupied working on projects
- The ND staff are able to work on upgrading their engine to take advantage of the new PS5 hardware and iron out a lot of the bugs and kinks along the way. This means they won't have to face those bugs and kinks while simultaneously trying to develop their big new game which can cause all manner of headaches
- The staff are gaining valuable experience developing for the PS5 to take advantage of its tech
- Customers aren't left with a several year gap between TLOU2 and their next big IP dropping with no other content from the studio
- Sony and Naughty Dog are pushing the TLOU IP very hard and are going to introduce the series to millions of folks via the HBO series. Some of those folks will want to give the game a try and all things considered I think they'd prefer those people play a modern version of the game rather than a straight remaster of a PS3 game that's aged quite a bit in comparison to a game like TLOU2.
- $$$. These studios need to carry their weight and these projects will brings in HUGE amounts of cash for Naughty Dog relative to the investment put into them.
 

JaksGhost

Member
1. FIFA 23 - available to 130 million (est.) console users in the US
2. Madden NFL 23 - available to 130 million (est.) console users in the US
3. NBA 2K23 - available to 130 million (est.) console users in the US
4. Splatoon 3 - available to 38-40+ million (est.) Switch users in the US
5. TLOU Part 1 - available to 8-9+ million PS5 users in the US

It's also the most expensive one on the list as well with a base price of $70 attached to a console you still can't largely walk into a store to purchase. We also can't forget to mention it being the third release of the game in the last 10 years. Are some of you looking at the charts and just thinking of numbers for the console(s) you own or do you take into account the multiple consoles a game is available to purchase on?
 
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vivftp

Member
1. FIFA 23 - available to 130 million (est.) console users in the US
2. Madden NFL 23 - available to 130 million (est.) console users in the US
3. NBA 2K23 - available to 130 million (est.) console users in the US
4. Splatoon 3 - available to 38-40+ (est.) Switch users in the US
5. TLOU Part 1 - available to 8-9+ million PS5 users in the US

It's also the most expensive one on the list as well with a base price of $70 attached to a console you still can't largely walk into a store to purchase. We also can't forget to mention it being the third release of the game in the last 10 years. Are you some of you looking at the charts and just thinking of numbers for the console(s) you own or do you take into account the multiple consoles a game is available to purchase on?

I think for some, their hang-ups over TLOU2 have clouded their ability to see reason and properly analyze anything related to the franchise.

Anyways, TLOU Part 1 was a great remake (bought it day 1) and will be an amazing experience for anyone who's playing it for the first time on PC, or is introduced to the franchise via the HBO show or MP game.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Last of us remake at fifth spot? sheesh i guess the negativity surrounding the LOU2 really did a number on this franchise.
It has nothing to do with the negativity surrounding the franchise. It's nearly the same game outside of the graphics and the original is free to all PS5 owners.

If people think this was going to sell the same as a major triple A title release or even beat Splatoon, NBA, Madden, and FIFA, then I would suggest following more video game sales threads.
 

Klayzer

Member
It has nothing to do with the negativity surrounding the franchise. It's nearly the same game outside of the graphics and the original is free to all PS5 owners.

If people think this was going to sell the same as a major triple A title release or even beat Splatoon, NBA, Madden, and FIFA, then I would suggest following more video game sales threads.
Why bother. You know they aren't arguing in good faith. Anybody, trying to sell you that TLOU coming in fith place is a disappointment, is straight trolling or stupid. Goalposts keeps getting moved whenever this franchise is disscused on here.
 

Topher

Gold Member
I think for some, their hang-ups over TLOU2 have clouded their ability to see reason and properly analyze anything related to the franchise.

There is one poster in this thread that is a perfect example of this.


I'm not going to name any names though...

Mw5q0Fe.png
 
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DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Why bother. You know they aren't arguing in good faith. Anybody, trying to sell you that TLOU coming in fith place is a disappointment, is straight trolling or stupid. Goalposts keeps getting moved whenever this franchise is disscused on here.
I'm going to bookmark this thread when the multiplayer releases because that game should put up huge numbers.
 
He said The Last of Us sold twice as many copies as The Last of Us Part II when it's clearly not a fair comparison. Last of Us is going to have the edge because it was bundled for years and was on the market for longer.

I also said it made more money due to the fact that it was inflated by bundle sales similar to Uncharted 4.
And TLoU was a new IP. Its sequel built upon one of the most renowned games of the time. It's normal to see very different sales trajectories between the games since the brand grew massively during the early PS4 generation.
TLoU2 was released when the brand was already perceived as one of the biggest Playstation IPs, ofc that wasn't true when TLoU originally released on PS3.
They have very different stories, so they are not very comparable 1vs1. One can just analyze how the sequel built on the prequel success and legacy.
 

vivftp

Member
I'm going to bookmark this thread when the multiplayer releases because that game should put up huge numbers.
The MP game + the HBO series + TLOU Part 1 being fresh + the rumored TLOU Part 2 Director's Cut all combined seem like they'll build upon one another to co-market the franchise and build hype. Plus this will possibly be Sony's first big foray into their new live service push (unless Helldivers 2 beats it to release) and they'll no doubt put a ton of marketing dollars behind it. Plus, of course, it's a Naughty Dog game so that alone will get a lot of eyes on it.

I think it's all but certain that Naughty Dog will launch the MP game on console and PC simultaneously, but I'm curious if the game will also be on mobile.
 

Woopah

Member
Really impressed with the sales for Turtles and JoJo. Turtles was even 2nd on the Switch.

No sign of Diofield or Valkyire Elysium (though Valkyrie didn't have a lot of time).

I don't see GTAV up there. That is the most impressive thing about that list.

GTA6 is surely announcing soon, lol.
Take Two has told NPD to not include GTA's digital sales anymore.
A game on sale for 70 dollars charting at #5 clearly shows the market is here for it though, lmao.

It's also not just PC. This game will be the go-to game for the TV show once it debuts. Sony is counting on that as well.
This is not a comment on the game's performance, but the NPD charts are revenue based. So the $70 price actually helps it chart higher.
The cycle for the Switch is starting to fade. Which is predictable since it is close to entering its seventh year. To be honest it is doing better than I would have expected.

Congratulations to Sony. Things are looking up.
We're definitely at the point where the streams cross. PS5 should lead most of 2023.
PS5 is in demand and will win the holiday months as well (October, November, December)

The power of Playstation is unimaginable. It' like an earthquake of power surging though veins.


hulk-hulk-out.gif
Holiday wil be close between Switch and PS5, a lot will depend on the supply of both systems.
If PS5 win November NPD (by unit) then it will be something as Nintendo traditionally almost always win that month.
December will be the most telling month. Traditionally, Sony sold more in November then in December while for Nintendo it is the opposite.
 

Bragr

Banned
Gran turismo can still be a juggernaut and sell well and doesn't need to crush kirby :pie_thinking:
No, but it should, releasing on PS4 and PS5, being the premier racing sim, it should drive circles around Kirby.

I don't know if it released too close to Elden Ring, or if all the microtransactions hurt it, but it should be considerably bigger than GT Sport. I'm pretty sure Gran Turismo holds all the records for exclusive sales on PS1, PS2, and PS3.
 
Kirby with digital is outselling Gran Turismo 7. In the United States. What a success for Kirby, which has always sold relatively low.

That was also the case with Metroid, then look at the numbers Metroid: Dread put up. It's the Switch Effect, similar to how some of Nintendo's smaller IP (and bigger ones) benefited from the Wii Effect during that generation. GT is also a simulation racer, which as a genre is "decently" popular in America but has a lot more fanfare in Europe. It's also a cross-gen game and going by the trends with other games like Miles Morales and HFW, most players have been waiting for PS5 availability before jumping into it.

There's also the MTX issues with GT7 but I don't think most people care about that. With those factors accounted for, it's not surprising if the new Kirby (which seemed like that series' "Mario Odyssey" moment) outsold GT7.

What does this say about GT7 though? Mario Kart 8 might have sold more than it.

Again, GT7 is a simulation racer, in a genre that isn't massively popular in America, that has been mostly constrained by lack of PS5 availability (up to a point, until the past couple months or so). MK8 is a kart/arcade racer, already released once on the Wii U (and did very well there in spite of that system's poor sales), released again on the Switch, has been available for far longer than GT7, and has characters from one of the most popular IP in the world.

Natural to assume it would have sold more than GT7.

No, but it should, releasing on PS4 and PS5, being the premier racing sim, it should drive circles around Kirby.

I don't know if it released too close to Elden Ring, or if all the microtransactions hurt it, but it should be considerably bigger than GT Sport. I'm pretty sure Gran Turismo holds all the records for exclusive sales on PS1, PS2, and PS3.

I don't know if this is concern-trolling, but you're making a mountain out of an ant hill. You're underestimating the reception for Kirby: Forgotten World, the Switch Effect on bolstering notable software releases simply by being on the system (including some of Nintendo's smaller IP like Kirby), underestimating the reluctance from GT fans to wait until PS5 availability was better before picking up the game (we saw this already with Miles Morales and that has sold 10+ million), and some of the controversy around GT7's MTX pricing for higher-end cars (which seemed to go away for a bit, then snuck back in).

The Elden Ring argument literally makes no sense; an open world action-adventure fantasy-horror single-player game isn't crossing over a lot of the audience for a simulation racing game. That argument would've held up better against HFW, which many people have also tried using proximity to ER's release as a point in suggesting it's failed commercially (though now they look pretty stupid with it sitting as the #5 best-selling game of the year on NPD), but didn't hold up.

And it definitely has no bearing on Gran Turismo 7. Again, these games are a lot more popular in Europe, I think you are overestimating how much of the series's sales have come from the NA region TBH.
 
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jm89

Member
No, but it should, releasing on PS4 and PS5, being the premier racing sim, it should drive circles around Kirby.

I don't know if it released too close to Elden Ring, or if all the microtransactions hurt it, but it should be considerably bigger than GT Sport. I'm pretty sure Gran Turismo holds all the records for exclusive sales on PS1, PS2, and PS3.
Most gran turismo from ps1-ps3 generation sold 10 million+, not sure about gt6. Gran truismo 7 can still do that and achieve what those other gran turismos did without your silly obsession with it needing to crush kirby.
 

Bragr

Banned
That was also the case with Metroid, then look at the numbers Metroid: Dread put up. It's the Switch Effect, similar to how some of Nintendo's smaller IP (and bigger ones) benefited from the Wii Effect during that generation. GT is also a simulation racer, which as a genre is "decently" popular in America but has a lot more fanfare in Europe. It's also a cross-gen game and going by the trends with other games like Miles Morales and HFW, most players have been waiting for PS5 availability before jumping into it.

There's also the MTX issues with GT7 but I don't think most people care about that. With those factors accounted for, it's not surprising if the new Kirby (which seemed like that series' "Mario Odyssey" moment) outsold GT7.



Again, GT7 is a simulation racer, in a genre that isn't massively popular in America, that has been mostly constrained by lack of PS5 availability (up to a point, until the past couple months or so). MK8 is a kart/arcade racer, already released once on the Wii U (and did very well there in spite of that system's poor sales), released again on the Switch, has been available for far longer than GT7, and has characters from one of the most popular IP in the world.

Natural to assume it would have sold more than GT7.
I am talking about Mario Kart doing better during this year alone, not total. This is GT7's release year after all.

You are not wrong with your first points, but it's still not expected. I am just making an observation.
 

Bragr

Banned
Most gran turismo from ps1-ps3 generation sold 10 million+, not sure about gt6. Gran truismo 7 can still do that and achieve what those other gran turismos did without your silly obsession with it needing to crush kirby.
Obsession? am just stating a weird fact from the YTD sales. The big exclusives sell 15+ million now. I expect Gran Turismo to grow like that too.

GT Sport was a bit of a dud sales-wise, but it wasn't numbered and it was a weird entry, I expected 7 to bring back the money. GT7 should dwarf GT Sport.
 

jm89

Member
Obsession? am just stating a weird fact from the YTD sales. The big exclusives sell 15+ million now. I expect Gran Turismo to grow like that too.

GT Sport was a bit of a dud sales-wise, but it wasn't numbered and it was a weird entry, I expected 7 to bring back the money. GT7 should dwarf GT Sport.
It's not really weird though.

We know the racing game genre has been on the decline since the ps3 era, maybe even earlier.

Most racing games don't even chart that high very often anymore other than mario kart, especially racing sims. Nothing weird about a platformer charting higher.
 

Bragr

Banned
It's not really weird though.

We know the racing game genre has been on the decline since the ps3 era, maybe even earlier.

Most racing games don't even chart that high very often anymore other than mario kart, especially racing sims. Nothing weird about a platformer charting higher.
I think so, platformers aren't big sellers apart from Mario, especially Kirby. But we won't get the full picture until the numbers come out, maybe it just hit a rough patch since it came out around Elden Ring and Horizon, we will see how green it is.
 

SLB1904

Banned
I think so, platformers aren't big sellers apart from Mario, especially Kirby. But we won't get the full picture until the numbers come out, maybe it just hit a rough patch since it came out around Elden Ring and Horizon, we will see how green it is.
There is nothing to see your concern trolling is palpable. The game is in the top 10 worldwide. What else do you want? Lmfao. This thread really did a number on you.

Also by this time gt sport was $20. And never charter in the NPD. GT7 release is bigger than GT Sport and is not even in the same ballpark.
 
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Woopah

Member
I think so, platformers aren't big sellers apart from Mario, especially Kirby. But we won't get the full picture until the numbers come out, maybe it just hit a rough patch since it came out around Elden Ring and Horizon, we will see how green it is.
I think this is down to a very strong performance of Kirby, rather than GT doing badly.
 

EDMIX

Member
Who knows - much like MS and Sony eventually had to accept that putting first party hits on PC is better for their bottom-line, Nintendo might get there with theirs one day for mobile.
It's not like they are ignoring mobile either - as of second half of last decade their two biggest IPs are hyper popular on mobile - it's really just the final step of getting over the fear of cannibalizing their console market and allow actual titles to cross-over too (and IMO writing is on the wall this will happen before long).

well they are already doing that with mobile with a few titles, I merely mean them not getting that base back on Switch, like on dedicated hardware.

Its best for Nintendo to go to them, then for them to assume they'll return to that hardware imho. I agree with your post though. They are doing better with this transition then most lol

MS was really late to go to PC even with literally owning a OS and Sony got rid of SOE, only to then go back to PC 1 gen later lol So I'd argue Nintendo may have been more forthcoming and realistic to how the market was changing for their business then I think Sony and MS were.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
well they are already doing that with mobile with a few titles
I might have missed that - but have they put any core titles on mobile? So far I'm only aware of built-for-mobile Apps using existing IPs - with Pokemon, AC and MK finding success so far - but none of those have console counterparts.

I merely mean them not getting that base back on Switch, like on dedicated hardware.
Sort of hard to tell - Switch is on track to compete with NDS, and that only sold that much on the back of such audiences. And Nintendo never had a 100M seller that didn't capture that audience before - and it could be argued that *successful* Playstations all had that component too on the back of sports titles and the like (different segments, but still 'casual' audiences). Though it's possible 'core' has been growing in recent decades - but not sure if there's any public study data on it.

MS was really late to go to PC even with literally owning a OS and Sony got rid of SOE, only to then go back to PC 1 gen later lol So I'd argue Nintendo may have been more forthcoming and realistic to how the market was changing for their business then I think Sony and MS were.
Yea both Sony or MS have been late to PC party(or in MS case, they've had multiple times they fell off the PC train - this is like their 4th go at it), but again - we're talking moving core-products over, something I've also not seen Nintendo do yet.
Mobile focused stuff is something Sony's been doing for over a decade now too - with mixed success (their big mobile IPs aren't the ones that are big on console) - so Nintendo has certainly broken more ground, but still, it's all treated as side-projects.
 
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EDMIX

Member
I might have missed that - but have they put any core titles on mobile? So far I'm only aware of built-for-mobile Apps using existing IPs - with Pokemon, AC and MK finding success so far - but none of those have console counterparts.

well I mean core IP, as in the franchise that make them the most money have been put on PC. I don't think we'll see console counterparts for some time not based on tech, but based on market difference.

The audience wants something quick, fast and short loop type thing.
 

Woopah

Member
well they are already doing that with mobile with a few titles, I merely mean them not getting that base back on Switch, like on dedicated hardware.

Its best for Nintendo to go to them, then for them to assume they'll return to that hardware imho. I agree with your post though. They are doing better with this transition then most lol

MS was really late to go to PC even with literally owning a OS and Sony got rid of SOE, only to then go back to PC 1 gen later lol So I'd argue Nintendo may have been more forthcoming and realistic to how the market was changing for their business then I think Sony and MS were.
Its also worth noting that Nintendo doesn't need the DS audience to reach DS numbers. They can reach it by generating new fans, and we can see that they are doing that.

Getting Switch to 150 million will not be easy, but it certainly looks possible.
 
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