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[FireFly]

From an interview with Brian Burke, NVIDIA PR Gaming Technology, Esports & Consumer VR:

"Brian: Cyberpunk 2077 uses the industry standard DirectX Ray Tracing API. It will work on any DXR-compatible GPU. Nothing related to Cyberpunk 2077 ray tracing is proprietary to NVIDIA."

NVIDIA Interview - Discussing Ray Tracing Support And 'Proprietary' Extensions

We had a one on one with Brian Burke of NVIDIA and discussed their ray tracing support and what people mean by 'proprietary' extensions.

wccftech.com

(Previous comments indicating otherwise by CDPR art director Jakub Knapik, were made before the launch of AMD's RDNA 2 cards)

EDIT: Ah, my first thread created and I forgot to specify which game in the title

 

[Kiya's Guard]

What? I was just receiving a 3090 for THIS game!

 

[nemiroff]

What? I was just receiving a 3090 for THIS game!

Not sure what your point is.

 

[Ironbunny]

Beautiful if true. 6900XT vs 3080 benchmarks will be battle I wanna see.

 

[Black_Stride]

What? I was just receiving a 3090 for THIS game!

You what love?

 

[martino]

Didn't took an interest into ray tracing but i was under the impression DXR was build onto NVIDIA solution (like most DX12U news features)
is it the case ?

 

[onesvenus]

DX Ray-tracing is a hardware agnostic API. Why wouldn't it?
An entirely different thing is RTX

 

[Black_Stride]

Didn't took an interest into ray tracing but i was under the impression DXR was build onto NVIDIA solution (like most DX12U news features)
is the case ?

You think Direct X 12 is only for Nvidia?

So every DX12 game only works on Nvidia GPUs?

Did you also think DX11 DX10 DX9 were Nvidia only?

What API do you suppose runs on AMD then....considering the DirectX box Series X is an AMD GPU.

 

[GHG]

Best news related to this game in a while.

Very interested to see how the two solutions stack up against each other.

 

[martino]

You think Direct X 12 is only for Nvidia?

So every DX12 game only works on Nvidia GPUs?

Did you also think DX11 DX10 DX9 were Nvidia only?

What API do you suppose runs on AMD then....considering the DirectX box Series X is an AMD GPU.

Strange way to read what i said ....
Can i deduce it's more you who is liking AMD too much ?

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

Interesting that this seems to contradict what CDPR staff said, but if this is true then that is great news for CyberPunk fans and the industry at large.

 

[Armorian]

Interesting that this seems to contradict what CDPR staff said, but if this is true then that is great news for CyberPunk fans and the industry at large.

When did they say their RT implementation is Nv only? DXR works on Nv, AMD and Intel (in the future) hardware.

 

[GaviotaGrande]

Brilliant! Can't wait for benchmark comparison.

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

When did they say their RT implementation is Nv only? DXR works on Nv, AMD and Intel (in the future) hardware.

I seem to recall CDPR saying that Ray Tracing in CyberPunk would not work on AMD GPUs at launch. I'm pretty happy that it doesn't seem to be the case now, just curious how wires got crossed so much.

I'm 100% for supporting open source, cross platform standards.

 

[regawdless]

Bring on the benchmark war. This being Nvidia co-promoted, I believe Nvidia is doing it's best to make the best driver for this game. This comparison between AMD and Nvidia will be so important.

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

Just to be clear, we already knew that titles that use DXR and Vulkan RT would work on AMD/Intel/Nvidia cards.

The uncertainty is related to potential proprietary extensions that may be in use in some of Nvidia's sponsored RTX titles.

This may still end up being the case, but I'm pretty sure with this news that 99% of titles should work on AMD/Intel without issue now.

We should know more closer to launch/reviews for RX6000 series when people can actually test this stuff.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Thats nice but you'll need DLSS to run that baby at max and theres no news of AMD's own form of dlss so nvidia is still the way to go.

 

[Black_Stride]

Strange way to read what i said ....
Can i deduce it's more you who is liking AMD too much ?

Me? The CUDA king liking AMD too much?
Bwahahahaha.


Ill leave you to your ignorance.

 

[Compsiox]

How does the quality of DXRT compare to RTX ?

 

[SLESS]

Thats nice but you'll need DLSS to run that baby at max and theres no news of AMD's own form of dlss so nvidia is still the way to go.

The AMD solution might be available when CP is released in 6 months time.

 

[Black_Stride]

How does the quality of DXRT compare to RTX ?

What game uses RTX but not DXR for us to compare?

And is there any game that lets us switch APIs?

 

[Compsiox]

What game uses RTX but not DXR for us to compare?

That's why I'm not sure what difference it will bring i guess lol

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

How does the quality of DXRT compare to RTX ?

So just to clarify, Direct X Ray Tracing (DXR) is the API that is being used in most of the Ray Tracing supported games currently. Recently Vulkan also added RT support to their API.

Nvidia is good at marketing so by pushing "RTX" as a term they have muddied the waters in the perception of the public to make them think that Nvidia essentially invented Ray Tracing or is doing something super special here. RTX is not an API, "RTX" titles still use DXR or Vulkan RT as the actual API. RTX is (mostly) a brand for marketing purposes and to make the public associate RT with Nvidia.

Where people will say "oh this has RTX turned on" instead of "this has Ray Tracing turned on" or "this has DXR turned on".

Outside of this, there does seem to potentially be some Nvidia specific extensions to DXR that may be in use in a small number of titles. It is not super clear if this is the case or not, we will have to wait and see but it seems like perhaps something like Quake RTX may not work on non-Nvidia cards. Not confirmed yet but we will find out shortly.

So to clarify, RTX is not an API that competes with DXR or Vulkan RT, it is just Nvidia's marketing term for titles/GPUs with Ray Tracing support. Nvidia are great at branding and marketing.

 

[The Cockatrice]

The AMD solution might be available when CP is released in 6 months time.

Don't ruin my life.

 

[Compsiox]

So just to clarify, Direct X Ray Tracing (DXR) is the API that is being used in most of the Ray Tracing supported games currently. Recently Vulkan also added RT support to their API.

Nvidia is good at marketing so by pushing "RTX" as a term they have muddied the waters in the perception of the public to make them think that Nvidia essentially invented Ray Tracing or is doing something super special here. RTX is not an API, "RTX" titles still use DXR or Vulkan RT as the actual API. RTX is (mostly) a brand for marketing purposes and to make the public associate RT with Nvidia.

Where people will say "oh this has RTX turned on" instead of "this has Ray Tracing turned on" or "this has DXR turned on".

Outside of this, there does seem to potentially be some Nvidia specific extensions to DXR that may be in use in a small number of titles. It is not super clear if this is the case or not, we will have to wait and see but it seems like perhaps something like Quake RTX may not work on non-Nvidia cards. Not confirmed yet but we will find out shortly.

So to clarify, RTX is not an API that competes with DXR or Vulkan RT, it is just Nvidia's marketing term for titles/GPUs with Ray Tracing support. Nvidia are great at branding and marketing.

I had a feeling because I've been confused about it this whole time but I never really bothered looking into it since only Nvidia sponsored games supported it for a while.

The more you know. They definitely did an amazing job at making it seem like they invented it.

 

[Kiya's Guard]

Not sure what your point is.

My point is the new amd is quite cheaper than the evga 3090 I ordered because THIS game showcased nvidia rtx. And we know what propietary stuff means

 

[martino]

Me? The CUDA king liking AMD too much?
Bwahahahaha.


Ill leave you to your ignorance.

Or it's you who don't know enough to interpret the question correctly.
DX features are influenced and result of collaboration made both vendor and their design choices.
AC was pushed because of AMD (while NVIDIA didn't really "supported" it until pascal)
Lot of DX12U feature are clearly influenced by turing design choices and it's why RTX 2XXX is DX12U compliant.
So the question was is DXR one of them ?

 

[Black_Stride]

So just to clarify, Direct X Ray Tracing (DXR) is the API that is being used in most of the Ray Tracing supported games currently. Recently Vulkan also added RT support to their API.

Nvidia is good at marketing so by pushing "RTX" as a term they have muddied the waters in the perception of the public to make them think that Nvidia essentially invented Ray Tracing or is doing something super special here. RTX is not an API, "RTX" titles still use DXR or Vulkan RT as the actual API. RTX is (mostly) a brand for marketing purposes and to make the public associate RT with Nvidia.

Where people will say "oh this has RTX turned on" instead of "this has Ray Tracing turned on" or "this has DXR turned on".

Outside of this, there does seem to potentially be some Nvidia specific extensions to DXR that may be in use in a small number of titles. It is not super clear if this is the case or not, we will have to wait and see but it seems like perhaps something like Quake RTX may not work on non-Nvidia cards. Not confirmed yet but we will find out shortly.

So to clarify, RTX is not an API that competes with DXR or Vulkan RT, it is just Nvidia's marketing term for titles/GPUs with Ray Tracing support. Nvidia are great at branding and marketing.

From the article:
What ray tracing games are out now that use NVIDIA proprietary technology?

Brian: The vast majority of games released with ray tracing support use the industry standard Microsoft DirectX Ray Tracing (DXR) API. Three exceptions we are aware of include Quake II RTX, Wolfenstein: Youngblood, and JX3, which use NVIDIA ray tracing extensions for Vulkan.

My point is the new amd is quite cheaper than the evga 3090 I ordered because THIS game showcased nvidia rtx. And we know what propietary stuff means

So you got tricked into think a technique that has been around for years and years, that multiple companies have made APIs for would only work on Nvidia GPUs?

Or it's you who don't know enough to interpret the question correctly.
DX features are influenced and result of collaboration made both vendor and their design choices.
AC was pushed because of AMD (while NVIDIA didn't really "supported" it until pascal)
Lot of DX12U feature are clearly influenced by turing design choices and it's why RTX 2XXX is DX12U compliant.
So the question was is DXR one of them ?

What the fuck are you talking about man.

 

[martino]

What the fuck are you talking about man.

clearly something you don't understand

 

[nemiroff]

My point is the new amd is quite cheaper than the evga 3090 I ordered because THIS game showcased nvidia rtx. And we know what propietary stuff means

Yeah but nothing changed so far, this topic I'd say is about compatibility, which doesn't indicate which solution is the fastest or best looking. There's still the question how AMD's solutions for RT hardware acceleration compares to Nvidia's "tried and tested" RTX cores, models and drivers (and also DLSS for that matter). Until we see proper benchmarks where surrounding factors are compensated for Nvidia's solutions are more likely to be faster and more mature. But we'll see, competition would of course be nice in that department as well.

With that said, and AMD aside, you surely must've already known that the 3090 isn't exactly the best option for value vs performance for gaming..

 

[Black_Stride]

clearly something you don't understand

Ive read your post 10 times over and im not sure what you are talking about.

Speak to me like I am 5.

What DX12U features are influenced by Turing?

What is AC?

Are you asking if DXR an API for Raytracing was/is influenced by design choices made by Nvidia hardware?

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

From the article:
What ray tracing games are out now that use NVIDIA proprietary technology?

Brian: The vast majority of games released with ray tracing support use the industry standard Microsoft DirectX Ray Tracing (DXR) API. Three exceptions we are aware of include Quake II RTX, Wolfenstein: Youngblood, and JX3, which use NVIDIA ray tracing extensions for Vulkan.

Thanks! This spurred me on to actually read the full article. Some interesting stuff in there.

So if I'm reading it right, so far any DXR game should work across AMD/Intel/Nvidia. There does not appear to be proprietary extensions.

However due to Vulkan not having their RT support/extension defined/released Nvidia came up with a custom extension for Vulkan that allowed RT support in titles. Vulkan has now released an official version of RT support that developers can use.

So potentially if the developers of those 3 titles wanted to, they could release an update to their games that replaces Nvidia Vulkan RT extensions with the official cross platform/vendor Vulkan RT code. Of course if they wanted to.

This helps to clear up the RT landscape a lot.

 

[martino]

Are you asking if DXR an API for Raytracing was/is influenced by design choices made by Nvidia hardware?

the question itself was trivial and innocent because i don't want to look by myself...
maybe saying "build onto" was not the best way to phrase it though.

 

[Black_Stride]

Thanks! This spurred me on to actually read the full article. Some interesting stuff in there.

So if I'm reading it right, so far any DXR game should work across AMD/Intel/Nvidia. There does not appear to be proprietary extensions.

However due to Vulkan not having their RT support/extension defined/released Nvidia came up with a custom extension for Vulkan that allowed RT support in titles. Vulkan has now released an official version of RT support that developers can use.

So potentially if the developers of those 3 titles wanted to, they could release an update to their games that replaces Nvidia Vulkan RT extensions with the official cross platform/vendor Vulkan RT code. Of course if they wanted to.

This helps to clear up the RT landscape a lot.

Yup.

Hopefully with time people will stop calling Raytracing RTX.

I got into a huge row (I caused) with people over the fact that Spiderman PS5 doesnt have any RTX in it a few pages and insults later someone revealed my secret and all was well.

Using hardware specific APIs when there are agonostic ones doesnt really make sense except for very very early adopters.

Im guessing he forgot to mention Metro Exodus?
They might have to patch their menus then.

But Metro and Control are perfect games to test AMDs RT Accelerators vs Nvidias RT Cores.

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

Yup.

Hopefully with time people will stop calling Raytracing RTX.

I got into a huge row (I caused) with people over the fact that Spiderman PS5 doesnt have any RTX in it a few pages and insults later someone revealed my secret and all was well.

Using hardware specific APIs when there are agonostic ones doesnt really make sense except for very very early adopters.

Im guessing he forgot to mention Metro Exodus?
They might have to patch their menus then.

But Metro and Control are perfect games to test AMDs RT Accelerators vs Nvidias RT Cores.

Those games might retain RTX branding as I believe they were sponsored by Nvidia. Hard to say exactly though. Nvidia is all about that branding and mindshare.

I am looking forward to seeing benchmarks in most games for Ray Tracing, will be nice to get a proper idea how the new cards from AMD/Nvidia compare.

One potentially interesting thought in terms of the comparisons is that a lot of games are currently optimized for Nvidia cards, simply because there was no other RT capable cards available, along with sponsorship from Nvidia to spur the adoption of Ray Tracing. So AMD cards will likely fair a little worse in these than I guess if the RT implementation of a given title was tested/optimized with AMD in mind or as a factor.

Plus things like DXR 1.0 vs DXR 1.1 where 1.1 new features supposedly performs better with AMD's solution. Anyway, exciting times await us all I think.

 

[KungFucius]

I guess I am just an ignorant customer. I thought RTX was just their name for having HW specific RT implementation and that only DLSS was "special" sauce.

I have my 3080 ready to play this thing and I am ready to try and fail for a 6800XT in a couple weeks if it appears to be better long term solution and again a month later for the 6900XT. And for that whole time for a 5800x. Scalping is a curse and a blessing. I can sell my card at no loss if AMD is amazing but I probably wont be able to buy that amazing GPU. AMD really requires the CPU to get the most, so that is the most depressing route. The 5800/5900x thing was a fucking joke yesterday. You needed to know the hidden fucking links that were sold out before you knew they existed.

I want to add that I don't like brand exclusive solutions unless they really are just enhancements to the standard. This shit needs to be open. If RTX just works a little better for RTX cards but DXR runs fine for the same game on non RTX then it is a wash really. It's just a game to be the first.

 

[Pippelipeikko]

Ray tracing or not DLSS 2.0 is where the real action is.

 

[Kiya's Guard]

Yeah but nothing changed so far, this topic I'd say is about compatibility, which doesn't indicate which solution is the fastest or best looking. There's still the question how AMD's solutions for RT hardware acceleration compares to Nvidia's "tried and tested" RTX cores, models and drivers (and also DLSS for that matter). Until we see proper benchmarks where surrounding factors are compensated for Nvidia's solutions are more likely to be faster and more mature. But we'll see, competition would of course be nice in that department as well.

With that said, and AMD aside, you surely must've already known that the 3090 isn't exactly the best option for value vs performance for gaming..

Of course, and probably the rtx is a safer/better option than amd's counterpart. What struck me is, this news came exactly the same day as I am receiving it. And yeah, I went totally bananas purchasing a 3090, but if I knew from the start the game would also be compatible with amd's ray tracing, I would've saved that money without a doubt.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Yup.

Hopefully with time people will stop calling Raytracing RTX.

I got into a huge row (I caused) with people over the fact that Spiderman PS5 doesnt have any RTX in it a few pages and insults later someone revealed my secret and all was well.

Using hardware specific APIs when there are agonostic ones doesnt really make sense except for very very early adopters.

Im guessing he forgot to mention Metro Exodus?
They might have to patch their menus then.

But Metro and Control are perfect games to test AMDs RT Accelerators vs Nvidias RT Cores.

Especially the Sam's Story DLC for Metro

 

[Kiya's Guard]

So you got tricked into think a technique that has been around for years and years, that multiple companies have made APIs for would only work on Nvidia GPUs?

Sadly, yes. I thought it was like nvidia's hairworks, smokefx or hbao+. Fuck damnit; well, it's still a great card nontheless. Lesson learned