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Nvidia says falling GPU prices are ‘a story of the past’

Klosshufvud

Member
GPUs are hitting diminishing returns fast and it seems like Nvidia is compensating lower sales with higher prices. The last GPU-intensive game we had was Cyberpunk in 2020 and there doesn't seem to be many more heavy hitters on the horizon really. Nvidia is probably sweating realizing that there comes a point where a faster GPU doesn't really have much more benefits to what's already out there.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Tech companies like TSMC, nvidia, Intel, AMD, etc, enjoyed a huge boom in profits, thanks to covid restrictions and mining.
They increased prices on everything, because everything sold at any price.
Now they refuse to go back to a normal market, with normal profits. They demand that the consumer must pay for their greed.
They can only win if we buy into their schemes. Either consumers stand their ground against this exploitation, or it will become the new norm.
There is greed, but there is also a kernel of truth in what NVIDIA’s CEO is saying: semiconductors manufacturing nodes improvements are getting costlier and it takes longer and longer for each of them (and the improvements between one node and the next seems to be on the way down too).

People wanting a new card every year and seeing some big tent pole easy to market feature and/or performance numbers boost is also not helping (coupled with devs that seem to afford themselves less and less time to exploit any particular HW and relying on HW to keep getting faster and faster, at least outside of the consoles realm).
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
He was a good guy back in 2020, but since that whole gpu mining crisis the greed got to him, and now he's pulling shit like this
A good guy? A good guy?!
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Good luck with that Jensen, my 3080 still running fine afaik, AMD is in play still with likely (much) better performance per watt and price even on the tippity top end.

Plenty of 3080s and 3090s being offset from miners too, so you might as well shove the 4080, the real 4080 and the 4090 right in your ass (y)
I consider buying from the miners to be almost as bad as buying from nvidia. Why let them off the hook?
 

ZehDon

Member
My RTX 3090 has me set for at least the remainder of the current console generation, where I'll be riding out every major release with either max settings, or close to max settings. Given the influx of 3000s thanks to miners, I won't be the only one sitting comfortably for several years to come. When demand for the 4000 series doesn't materialise, I'll be watching for their response.
 

winjer

Member
There is greed, but there is also a kernel of truth in what NVIDIA’s CEO is saying: semiconductors manufacturing nodes improvements are getting costlier and it takes longer and longer for each of them (and the improvements between one node and the next seems to be on the way down too).

People wanting a new card every year and seeing some big tent pole easy to market feature and/or performance numbers boost is also not helping (coupled with devs that seem to afford themselves less and less time to exploit any particular HW and relying on HW to keep getting faster and faster, at least outside of the consoles realm).

Yes, process nodes are getting costlier. But on the other hand economy of scale got much bigger.
Not only there are a lot more devices that use chips, but there are less companies competing.

With many more chips to produce, the costs to develop a new process node gets spread out a lot more.
And since there are only 3 companies with high end process nodes, this means each gets more contracts to earn a profit.

Several years ago, we had many more chip makers, each fighting for a slice of the market share. Fewer contracts. Less profit per process node.
And at one point, they had one of the biggest expenditures in the history of the industry, with the change to 300mm waffers. Still prices didn't rise like this.

And let's not forget that TSMC increased prices of even older nodes. For example, today the N7 node costs more than when it was cutting edge in 2018.
This is greed from tech companies. They got a taste of amazing profits from 2020 to 2022, and they don't want to go back.

TSMC wants to keep charging as if there is high demand from covid restrictions. And nvidia wants to charger prices as if we were miners.
The main drive for these prices increasing is greed, the technical aspects would be just a much smaller percentage.

 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Yes, process nodes are getting costlier. But on the other hand economy of scale got much bigger.
Not only there are a lot more devices that use chips, but there are less companies competing.
I think the cost and contention at those high performance node grew much bigger than the scale increase though.

If I am wrong, do not think I am too far off the mark, AMD will slaughter them in performance and price by a huge huge margin. Then again consumers may see what happens when due to mindshare the second competitor technically exists but may not have enough spare cash to capture the opportunity, monopoly in all but name.

I think that we need to either pray for some breakthrough or accept to see new iPhone Every two years, GPU generations lengthening, and either price and size increase of consoles or no Pro consoles and 6+ year minimum for console cycles.

Even Apple has to split their lineup with some phones getting the chips on the newest node and some getting the older chips. Artificial segmentation is only part of it.
 

winjer

Member
I think the cost and contention at those high performance node grew much bigger than the scale increase though.

If I am wrong, do not think I am too far off the mark, AMD will slaughter them in performance and price by a huge huge margin. Then again consumers may see what happens when due to mindshare the second competitor technically exists but may not have enough spare cash to capture the opportunity, monopoly in all but name.

I think that we need to either pray for some breakthrough or accept to see new iPhone Every two years, GPU generations lengthening, and either price and size increase of consoles or no Pro consoles and 6+ year minimum for console cycles.

Even Apple has to split their lineup with some phones getting the chips on the newest node and some getting the older chips. Artificial segmentation is only part of it.

Yes costs of developing new nodes has increased. But not to the point of justifying a 2X increase in prices, like nvidia is doing.
But there were also times the cost of nodes should have gone down. For example, UV nodes require significantly fewer passes to produce a waffer.
Meaning less machine time, less costs, more profit.

But the thing we also have to consider is that the cost of waffers should go down with time.
When a process node is new, it has lower yeilds. The company also has to recover costs of development and buying new machinery.
But with time, yields improve and the cost of development and machine costs are abated.

The N5 process node is already 2 years old. The N4 process is one year old. And the N7 process is 4 years old.
Yet, even the N7 node saw a big price increase.

Look at dram manufacturers. During 2020-2022 dram prices were high, because of demand.
Prices for DDR5 were through the roof, because it was new tech.
But now demand is much lower and yeilds for DDR5 production have increased.
So all memory prices are going down. And even DDR5 is expected to become as cheap as DDR4 in 2023.
Same story for NAND and other components.
 

tusharngf

Member
Tech companies like TSMC, nvidia, Intel, AMD, etc, enjoyed a huge boom in profits, thanks to covid restrictions and mining.
They increased prices on everything, because everything sold at any price.
Now they refuse to go back to a normal market, with normal profits. They demand that the consumer must pay for their greed.
They can only win if we buy into their schemes. Either consumers stand their ground against this exploitation, or it will become the new norm.
TSMC did it first for their newer nodes. They increased the price later everyone followed them. Nvidia increased the price even they were using samsung's old node. Now they want customers to pay the premium price.
 
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yurinka

Member
Yes, there is a big and rising inflation, the costs of the materials, electricity and fuel rising, which is making the cost of producing and shipping everything more expensive. Adding that to bigger, more complex products obviously makes them more expensive. We're seeing prices rising everywhere.

But well, I assume people will continue blaming Jim Ryan for this.

I just dont understand why should we spend so much money on so powerful gpu when you cant use its full potental ( graphic for today games are all designed to be in range ps and xbox power )
Can someone explain this?
I understand the use of very expensive GPUs/PCs in a profesional environment like gamedevs, video streaming/editing, animation, architecture, etc. but not for gaming consumers.

I think to get some extra fps, resolution or some small extra visual improvement isn't worth to pay hundreds or thousands of bucks when you can get basically the same for way less money.

And looking at the Steam stats I'm not the only one: only a tiny portion of Steam users have high end PCs.

Going down the Sony route.
Fuel, electricity, components, smartphones, GPUs, Meta Quest, food and pretty much everything is rising prices. It has nothing to do with Sony. If companies want to keep a profitable business, unless they were selling their products with a big profit margin and are having a big profit for the company (like Nintendo) they will have to rise pricing.

In fact, the price rise we saw in PS5 is pretty small compared with many other ones we saw these recent months. And we'll continue to see more.
 
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Danknugz

Member
I just dont understand why should we spend so much money on so powerful gpu when you cant use its full potental ( graphic for today games are all designed to be in range ps and xbox power )
Can someone explain this?
no one is saying you "should" but nvidia cards in particular can be used outside of standard gaming for AI/machine learning applications and next gen game dev/modding as we've seen with the latest bits.

edit: post above reminded me of NVENC and video editing which also is a game changer for rendering performance
 
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Orta

console wars 2020 - participant
Can we speculate on what the 4060/70 will cost based upon the rrp of the 12gb 4080 ($900)?

Would $500/700 be a fair assumption?
 
But falling Nvidia is a story of the future with these outrageous price with absolutely no respect for the consumer.

Be gone assholes.
Hole Wobble GIF by Achiloid
 
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SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Can we speculate on what the 4060/70 will cost based upon the rrp of the 12gb 4080 ($900)?

Would $500/700 be a fair assumption?

With the cost of the 4080 and the “4080”, I don’t see how a 4070 comes in at $500. It may very well hit $600-$700.

If 60 Series cards (and similar tier AMD cards) hit a $500 msrp, I won’t bother with any further PC upgrades, and will eventually migrate back to consoles.
 

JackSparr0w

Member
With the cost of the 4080 and the “4080”, I don’t see how a 4070 comes in at $500. It may very well hit $600-$700.

If 60 Series cards (and similar tier AMD cards) hit a $500 msrp, I won’t bother with any further PC upgrades, and will eventually migrate back to consoles.
Not sure why you take cheap consoles for granted. Eventually things trickle down.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Not sure why you take cheap consoles for granted. Eventually things trickle down.

Oh I don’t take them for granted. I just want to focus on one platform, and if GPU makers want to cling onto unrealistic scalper/crypto pricing then I’m going to bow out of the upgrade game.

I’ll use Steam Deck for my PC library/indies, and a console for AAA.
 

LordCBH

Member
With the cost of the 4080 and the “4080”, I don’t see how a 4070 comes in at $500. It may very well hit $600-$700.

If 60 Series cards (and similar tier AMD cards) hit a $500 msrp, I won’t bother with any further PC upgrades, and will eventually migrate back to consoles.

The 4070 is 100% going to be $699.
 

jaysius

Member
GPUs are hitting diminishing returns fast and it seems like Nvidia is compensating lower sales with higher prices. The last GPU-intensive game we had was Cyberpunk in 2020 and there doesn't seem to be many more heavy hitters on the horizon really. Nvidia is probably sweating realizing that there comes a point where a faster GPU doesn't really have much more benefits to what's already out there.
It's why the have to keep pushing the fetishizing of RTX in games, it's the only carrot they have to make it harder to hit performance goals right now, to make people think they need their super expensive cards.

We have hit a plateau in performance and there's stagnation in GPU development. They either don't want to go with the new tech they're developing or can't achieve reasonable performance targets with whatever that new tech is. What's probably going on is they don't need to spend money dangling new carrots so why the hell would they when they can squeeze people with stale ideas and keep telling people how much they "need" RTX in gaming, when in reality the lowest common denominator of current gen consoles can't do RTX and high performance so we still have devs putting all the effort in with old lighting tech still making games look amazing, while then having to put effort into RTX for the people on PC with expensive cards.
 
I consider buying from the miners to be almost as bad as buying from nvidia. Why let them off the hook?
Who prioritized miners vs gamers in the first place? Nvidia did, the oversupply we have nowadays was one of their own making.

Miners already made their money on ETH, they will sell their supply on the cheap, so I would definitely recommend anyone looking to buy a 3080/3090 on the cheap from them.

I'm fine with my 3080 and I'm one of those rare cases with triple 4k screens for sim racing and VR that can use the top of the top.

I'm likely to build a full new rig and unless AMD massively shits the bed I'll go with their high end card this time around. The only "reasonable" offering from Nvidia this time is the 4090, so much so that it makes the 4080 look unbelievably bad by comparison.
 

ShirAhava

Plays with kids toys, in the adult gaming world
Holy crap am I glad I stocked up on 16/20 series cards in 2020/2021

Just gonna avoid anything gpu related until display port 2.0 becomes an actual thing you can buy
 

tusharngf

Member
Yes, there is a big and rising inflation, the costs of the materials, electricity and fuel rising, which is making the cost of producing and shipping everything more expensive. Adding that to bigger, more complex products obviously makes them more expensive. We're seeing prices rising everywhere.

But well, I assume people will continue blaming Jim Ryan for this.


I understand the use of very expensive GPUs/PCs in a profesional environment like gamedevs, video streaming/editing, animation, architecture, etc. but not for gaming consumers.

I think to get some extra fps, resolution or some small extra visual improvement isn't worth to pay hundreds or thousands of bucks when you can get basically the same for way less money.

And looking at the Steam stats I'm not the only one: only a tiny portion of Steam users have high end PCs.


Fuel, electricity, components, smartphones, GPUs, Meta Quest, food and pretty much everything is rising prices. It has nothing to do with Sony. If companies want to keep a profitable business, unless they were selling their products with a big profit margin and are having a big profit for the company (like Nintendo) they will have to rise pricing.

In fact, the price rise we saw in PS5 is pretty small compared with many other ones we saw these recent months. And we'll continue to see more.
I think next gen machines or pro machines will be 600 dollars or more. That will be fair price
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
If you want a laugh look at Zotacs 4090s. They are so large they hardly fit in any cases...not the length, the height of the card.

Absolute behemoths and a huge oversight.
 
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