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Oculus Quest 2 has sold 10 million units

MrFunSocks

Banned
Meanwhile, Microsoft continues to have a questionable stance on VR in gaming. It's kind of ridiculous that they teased it as a possibility in 2018 and yet, as of this year, they have no commitment to pursue it in the gaming space.

I very much hope they have a change of opinion and at least open up their consoles to support 3P VR headsets. As-is, everyone else from Facebook, and Sony especially, are gaining valuable marketshare in that segment, building brand name presence in that segment, and most importantly, learning and building upon game design within that segment. I still wholeheartedly believe VR (and maybe some form of AR) will be standardized and mainstream, mass-market ready by time of 10th-gen consoles to be included by default at a very reasonable cost.

If Microsoft wait until then to even begin supporting VR in any capacity on the gaming front, they'll have way too much to try catching up on. I would make a similar argument for Nintendo but they've already kind of dipped into (cheap) VR for Switch somewhat, and they have the brand name and IP, plus general hardware creativity and perception among many they're in their "own lane" that they can make a VR solution work in short while and not get compared at a detriment to other solutions on the market.

Microsoft might have the sheer financial and technical resources but how quickly would specific 1P teams be able to shift to VR and AR? iD Software? Maybe Rare? I'm talking about genuine VR/AR-first gaming experiences, that'll require certain skillsets gathered over the years. Also anything MS does by then will be pitted directly against PSVR, Oculus, Vive, and Valve's VR.

Anyway tho, back on topic; GGs OQ2, wish it had a better company as a platform holder but that aside it's great to see VR solutions gaining traction among the larger market. Lots of growth potential this gen between that and PSVR2.
“wait and see” is the correct approach here imo. The PSVR isn’t going to be the industry standard headset, is it? No. The Quest is looking to be the standard going forward as it’s cheap, wireless, great hardware, and works standalone or via PC. It wouldn’t take much for MS to allow it to work with Xbox consoles if they want.

VR is still a niche. Remember how Sony went all in on 3D while Microsoft chose to “wait and see”? Microsoft were right on that one. VR on consoles especially is tiny. The PSVR sold to like 2% of the 120 million PS4 owners. PSVR 2 is rumoured to be wired again, which means it’s a no go for a lot of people. It also requires a console no one can buy, and then will likely cost more than the Quest as well. If MS just add Quest support to the Xbox that’s an instant win over PSVR, and if VR gets big enough that’s what they’ll do. They don’t need to make their own games or hardware for it.

Not to mention that there is zero chance of the PS5 or future consoles supporting the Quest or any other non Sony VR headset since they make their own.
 
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Marvel14

Banned
It's an amazing device so well deserved.

Sesame Street Haters GIF by INTO ACTION


The most fantastic irony is people shitting on it here and calling it niche when it's selling better than their favourite console. Love to see it.
Other than Half Life Alyx and Microsoft Flight Simulator what are the killer apps for it?

When it sells significantly more than the number of pc-only gamers that could possibly buy it and has at least 10 killer games, we can say VR has gone mainstream. Not before.

Right now it's as popular as Luigis Mansion 3
 
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GHG

Gold Member
Other than Half Life Alyx and Microsoft Flight Simulator what are the killer apps for it?

When it sells significantly more than the number of pc-only gamers that could possibly buy it and has at least 10 killer games, we can say VR has gone mainstream. Not before.

Right now it's as popular as Luigis Mansion 3

Careful now, your ignorance is showing.

Beat Saber
RE4 VR
Boneworks
Asgard's Wrath
Stormland
Echo VR
Population One
Superhot VR
Pistol Whip
Skyrim VR
Fallout 4 VR
Pretty much every racing Sim released in the last ~5 years has full VR support
Eleven Table Tennis
Pavlov VR
Then there are a bunch of "normal" popular games that also happen to have full VR support such as The Forest, No Man's Sky and Plasmophobia.

Oh and there's this title that isn't considered a "game" by many but still racks up huge numbers:

RESqHaj.jpg


It's gone mainstream whether you like it or not:

d7qqi5fjvr781.png





P.S. It's not PC VR that is pushing VR into the mainstream, it's standalone devices like the quest 2 which people will then also use with a PC or buy a decent PC to get more use out of it.
 
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Marvel14

Banned
Careful now, your ignorance is showing.

Beat Saber
RE4 VR
Boneworks
Asgard's Wrath
Stormland
Echo VR
Population One
Superhot VR
Pistol Whip
Skyrim VR
Fallout 4 VR
Pretty much every racing Sim released in the last ~5 years has full VR support
Eleven Table Tennis
Pavlov VR
Then there are a bunch of "normal" popular games that also happen to have full VR support such as The Forest, No Man's Sky and Plasmophobia.

Oh and there's this title that isn't considered a "game" by many but still racks up huge numbers:

RESqHaj.jpg


It's gone mainstream whether you like it or not:

d7qqi5fjvr781.png





P.S. It's not PC VR that is pushing VR into the mainstream, it's standalone devices like the quest 2 which people will then also use with a PC or buy a decent PC to get more use out of it.

Careful...your irrational fanboyism is showing. I never said I didn't like it and most of those games you listed most people have never heard of so don't qualify as killer AAA games.


It's OK VR will be fine whether you defend it or not...
 

GymWolf

Member
Careful now, your ignorance is showing.

Beat Saber
RE4 VR
Boneworks
Asgard's Wrath
Stormland
Echo VR
Population One
Superhot VR
Pistol Whip
Skyrim VR
Fallout 4 VR
Pretty much every racing Sim released in the last ~5 years has full VR support
Eleven Table Tennis
Pavlov VR
Then there are a bunch of "normal" popular games that also happen to have full VR support such as The Forest, No Man's Sky and Plasmophobia.

Oh and there's this title that isn't considered a "game" by many but still racks up huge numbers:

RESqHaj.jpg


It's gone mainstream whether you like it or not:

d7qqi5fjvr781.png





P.S. It's not PC VR that is pushing VR into the mainstream, it's standalone devices like the quest 2 which people will then also use with a PC or buy a decent PC to get more use out of it.

The lack of gorn in that list is kinda disturbing...
 
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mckmas8808

Banned
“wait and see” is the correct approach here imo. The PSVR isn’t going to be the industry standard headset, is it? No. The Quest is looking to be the standard going forward as it’s cheap, wireless, great hardware, and works standalone or via PC. It wouldn’t take much for MS to allow it to work with Xbox consoles if they want.

VR is still a niche. Remember how Sony went all in on 3D while Microsoft chose to “wait and see”? Microsoft were right on that one. VR on consoles especially is tiny. The PSVR sold to like 2% of the 120 million PS4 owners. PSVR 2 is rumoured to be wired again, which means it’s a no go for a lot of people. It also requires a console no one can buy, and then will likely cost more than the Quest as well. If MS just add Quest support to the Xbox that’s an instant win over PSVR, and if VR gets big enough that’s what they’ll do. They don’t need to make their own games or hardware for it.

Not to mention that there is zero chance of the PS5 or future consoles supporting the Quest or any other non Sony VR headset since they make their own.

The truth is, there will be no "standard" VR headset. Just standards that all VR headsets will need to have. And why should there be a standard VR headset? We don't have that in TVs, gaming consoles, PCs, etc.
 

mckmas8808

Banned
Console VR needs a console

PCVR needs a PC

How does that not make sense?

You're not making any sense man. VR will be VR regardless of how you get there. Some will get there with using a powerful PC with a 3080 GPU, some will get there with using their video game console, and many will get there by using a standalone VR headset.

VR is VR. As long as the headsets have a good baseline "standard" then, they'll all win.
 

CyberChulo

Member
So I was an original Quest user but returned it twice after trying to figure out ways to reduce the weight of the front heavy unit. Waited for Quest 2 just to find out that it required a Facebook account to use. Now I hear they are doing away with Facebook login and are going to use a Meta login. Isn't Meta another Facebook type login?
 

GHG

Gold Member
Careful...your irrational fanboyism is showing. I never said I didn't like it and most of those games you listed most people have never heard of so don't qualify as killer AAA games.


It's OK VR will be fine whether you defend it or not...

Laughable.

And you're citing flight sim as a game that most people have heard of? Have a look at where it ranks on most played lists. Most people don't have hardware capable of running it in VR either and yet you're calling it a "killer app". It's not. Blindly screaming "fanboy" when faced with facts doesn't help your argument either.

VR doesn't need a "killer app" to succeed FYI, it just needs a breadth of high quality experiences that can appeal to a wide range of people because once most people try it the whole experience is much more intuitive than traditional gaming has ever been.

The lack of gorn in that list is kinda disturbing...

It's good but I wouldn't put it on a list of "must try" titles anymore. If someone is looking for that kind of experience then blade and sorcery is a better introduction IMO.
 
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kingfey

Banned
Careful...your irrational fanboyism is showing. I never said I didn't like it and most of those games you listed most people have never heard of so don't qualify as killer AAA games.


It's OK VR will be fine whether you defend it or not...
Only fanboys care about AAA games.

Regular people don't give a crap about what style the game is.
 
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Marvel14

Banned
Only fanboys care about AAA games.

Regular people don't give a crap about what style the game is.
By AAA I meant killer titles that fans of the relevant genre would want to own and may buy the hardware just to play.....not AAA production values....

This thread is still about VR taking off as a mainstream gaming competitor right? Or am I missing something?
 
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Marvel14

Banned
Laughable.

And you're citing flight sim as a game that most people have heard of? Have a look at where it ranks on most played lists. Most people don't have hardware capable of running it in VR either and yet you're calling it a "killer app". It's not. Blindly screaming "fanboy" when faced with facts doesn't help your argument either.

VR doesn't need a "killer app" to succeed FYI, it just needs a breadth of high quality experiences that can appeal to a wide range of people because once most people try it the whole experience is much more intuitive than traditional gaming has ever been.



It's good but I wouldn't put it on a list of "must try" titles anymore. If someone is looking for that kind of experience then blade and sorcery is a better introduction IMO.

Risible...I am citing titles that are either system sellers or considered by serious fans of the relevant genre as must play/must own. But you knew that, you're just being difficult because you still think I am attacking VR.

Getting defensive when someone discusses legitimate issues in a thread and putting up straw men so you can dismiss views you don't like are some of the key signs that one is behaving like a fanboy.


Why don't you engage with my substantive points instead : a sales volume metric, a breadth and recognisability of killer apps in the mainstream metric etc...

I am sure VR will get there.. the interesting Question is when we can officially say it has crossed the line...

10 million sold is not it for me...
 
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Wonko_C

Member
The real killer app has been Beat Saber for quite a while, Meta knew they were onto something when they acquired Beat Games.
 
I don't know if there really are killer apps in the way that consoles have followed that model. It seems like it's just a tipping point of small and medium tier titles; Beat Saber included.

The killer app part is the hardware and tech itself in my opinion. Similar phenomenon to smart phones. People are going to enjoy lots of random small stuff, like web browsing, movies, social media, and small games.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
The truth is, there will be no "standard" VR headset. Just standards that all VR headsets will need to have. And why should there be a standard VR headset? We don't have that in TVs, gaming consoles, PCs, etc.
There are standards in TV's, consoles and PC's and there have been pretty much since their inception. TV's were built on broadcast standards and evolved into display standards. PC's and consoles all use parts that are based on standards for the most basic and most complex functions. For console and PC the thing that's not tied to some standard is the software that runs on them. They all pretty much work the exact same way.

To be honest, VR is also built on the same standards as consoles, PC's and TV's for the things that make it go. But there are things like how apertures are made and how it senses you and the area around that are not standard, and that's where VR is rapidly evolving.

With Oculus in particular they have released and retired so many versions that are not compatible from one to the next that the constant evolution has been keeping it niche. It seems to be slowing with Quest 2 and they've landed on something pretty cool but it still needs work. My fear is they're going to release something too soon that makes Quest 2 obsolete too fast. If they mess up and leave their 10+ million Quest 2 consumers behind then they could kill all of the momentum VR has been building.
 
There is one. its called beat saber.
Beat Saber is some floating blocks set to music. It's popular but it's definitely not a killer app, and honestly I think it's just the tech that is basically selling it. It's definitely viral though on youtube and social media as well. The novelty of wearing the headset and seeing it in VR is the main selling point of such a simple game.
 

GHG

Gold Member
Risible...I am citing titles that are either system sellers or considered by serious fans of the relevant genre as must play/must own. But you knew that, you're just being difficult because you still think I am attacking VR.

Getting defensive when someone discusses legitimate issues in a thread and putting up straw men so you can dismiss views you don't like are some of the key signs that one is behaving like a fanboy.


Why don't you engage with my substantive points instead : a sales volume metric, a breadth and recognisability of killer apps in the mainstream.

I am sure VR will get there.. the interesting Question is when we can officially say it has crossed the line...

By "serious fans" you mean "delusional fans" right? The gaming industry is much broader than the nonsense you see on this forum. Like I previously said, the concept of "killer apps" doesn't really apply to VR because the selling point is the experience as a whole and how intuitive that experience is. As long as someone can find one good experience that they can enjoy, regardless of the genre, then that will sell them on VR.

Along with the data I provided above the fact is that the quest 2 has outsold both the Xbox Series consoles and the PS5 since their respective launches. If you want to continue to bury your head in the sand and argue that it's not yet mainstream then that's your problem, I guess the consoles aren't mainstream either then.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
@ thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best , I'm also hoping we get some kind of VR integration with the series consoles. Even if it is a partnership with one of the wireless headset venders. Seems like a complete missed opportunity to not offer any kind of support at all.
 

kingfey

Banned
Beat Saber is some floating blocks set to music. It's popular but it's definitely not a killer app, and honestly I think it's just the tech that is basically selling it. It's definitely viral though on youtube and social media as well. The novelty of wearing the headset and seeing it in VR is the main selling point of such a simple game.
Its what casuals like. Games like this offer fun. Since you are moving your body alot.

Games like skyrim, re4 isnt something casuals play with VR.
 

Billbofet

Member
Beat Saber is some floating blocks set to music. It's popular but it's definitely not a killer app, and honestly I think it's just the tech that is basically selling it. It's definitely viral though on youtube and social media as well. The novelty of wearing the headset and seeing it in VR is the main selling point of such a simple game.
Wii Sports would like to have a word.....
 

mckmas8808

Banned
There are standards in TV's, consoles and PC's and there have been pretty much since their inception. TV's were built on broadcast standards and evolved into display standards. PC's and consoles all use parts that are based on standards for the most basic and most complex functions. For console and PC the thing that's not tied to some standard is the software that runs on them. They all pretty much work the exact same way.

To be honest, VR is also built on the same standards as consoles, PC's and TV's for the things that make it go. But there are things like how apertures are made and how it senses you and the area around that are not standard, and that's where VR is rapidly evolving.

With Oculus in particular they have released and retired so many versions that are not compatible from one to the next that the constant evolution has been keeping it niche. It seems to be slowing with Quest 2 and they've landed on something pretty cool but it still needs work. My fear is they're going to release something too soon that makes Quest 2 obsolete too fast. If they mess up and leave their 10+ million Quest 2 consumers behind then they could kill all of the momentum VR has been building.

That's my only fear too! Because with Quest2 now and PSVR2 coming next year........VR will and should only get bigger from here.

@ thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best , I'm also hoping we get some kind of VR integration with the series consoles. Even if it is a partnership with one of the wireless headset venders. Seems like a complete missed opportunity to not offer any kind of support at all.

It's my main gripe with Microsoft and Phil Spencer right now. Most of the things they are doing makes sense, except this!
 
Wii Sports would like to have a word.....
Perfect comparison honestly. I think it was mostly the Wii itself that was the killer app, and the experience of playing in a new way through the hardware. The title itself was okay, but not exactly a "killer app" in the traditional sense. I guess it's a mostly semantic difference because we kind of agree, but also disagree.
 

Romulus

Member
I am sure VR will get there.. the interesting Question is when we can officially say it has crossed the line...

10 million sold is not it for me...

So what's the number then bro? We can make a thread later because you deem a specific number mainstream. I guess the GameCube, N64, etc, etc, weren't mainstream because 10 million in a year crushed them both. N64 didn't even crack 4 million, so we're literally at over 2x.


Some more interesting data for the first year of sales. I guess the ps2 was the only mainstream device, but not the Quest 2.

aHR0cDovL3d3dy5ibG9nY2RuLmNvbS93d3cuam95c3RpcS5jb20vbWVkaWEvMjAwNy8xMS9zaGlwbWVudHMyLmpwZw==
 
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“wait and see” is the correct approach here imo. The PSVR isn’t going to be the industry standard headset, is it? No. The Quest is looking to be the standard going forward as it’s cheap, wireless, great hardware, and works standalone or via PC. It wouldn’t take much for MS to allow it to work with Xbox consoles if they want.

PSVR might not end up being the standard WRT install base, but it could be in terms of leading software that drives VR-centric game design, which is the more important point out of the two. As far as building a VR device, you're right that would be effortless for Microsoft, but you can't just "build" experience in VR or AR game design out of thin air. You can maybe acquire it, sure, but that presents its own issues not the least of which is, if that talent is even up for wanting to be acquired in the first place.

MS has a stable of 1P that could get the ropes of that type of design in decent time, but then there's the issue of rapport among gamers in that space, which is something you only really build with, among other things, time.

VR is still a niche. Remember how Sony went all in on 3D while Microsoft chose to “wait and see”? Microsoft were right on that one. VR on consoles especially is tiny. The PSVR sold to like 2% of the 120 million PS4 owners. PSVR 2 is rumoured to be wired again, which means it’s a no go for a lot of people. It also requires a console no one can buy, and then will likely cost more than the Quest as well. If MS just add Quest support to the Xbox that’s an instant win over PSVR, and if VR gets big enough that’s what they’ll do. They don’t need to make their own games or hardware for it.

I don't see how the PSVR2 costs more than the Quest unless it's packing better hardware, which is possible. As for the 3D thing, TBF it was Nintendo who really went all-in there with 3DS; Sony supported it of course but not to the degree Nintendo did. Thing is, by even supporting it, they were able to provide some unique stuff for their install base, whether you want to call those experiences "cheap" or not by relying on 3D as a gimmick. They were still something interesting for a slice of the install base in those ecosystems, something Microsoft didn't offer with their system. It's not always about if something is going to do massive numbers, to justify exploring the idea.

Also sticking with 3D for a moment, there are obvious parallels between that and AR. They share a few concepts, even if the technologies vastly differ in other key areas. So in a way, Nintendo supporting 3D with 3DS, allowed them to gain experience to eventually pursue the AR in that new Mario Kart racing game they released last year. 3D probably has stronger parallels to VR than AR, but that being the case, again it was ultimately worth it for Sony and Nintendo to explore it in some form, that's how we got stuff like PSVR and Nintendo Labo.

Another reason I don't like focusing on this tech needing to be massive money-makers out of the gate, to justify themselves, is because we can KIND of say the same thing about gaming subscription services and cloud streaming! Outside of PSNow and GamePass, there aren't too many notable game subscription services with emphasis on large game libraries to play, let alone cloud streaming of game content. The market for this in gaming is much smaller currently than it is for film and television, or music, if just talking about in terms of industry-wide scale among all viable platform holders. We don't even know how profitable services like GamePass actually are yet; sure we can assume they are making some type of profit, and that they're sustainable to maintain but...we know for a fact it's not to a point a company like Microsoft could just gut selling games traditionally (either on their systems or storefronts like Steam) and rely solely on GamePass.

When you compare a service like GamePass or PS Now to the overall market of traditional sales, including the revenues and profits generated for publishers and platform holders, those services are still relatively niche, yet Microsoft is investing like crazy into them, and even Sony are looking to seriously revamp their approach to streamline and compete better in that space. They're doing this because they see potential in that part of the market, that's the same reason companies like Sony are investing into VR early. Invest early, gain valuable experience, brand power/perception and rapport, then reap the benefits when things swell in popularity and market size. There is nothing innately "wrong" about technologies like VR that give them any less of a chance of growing into a major market segment than subscription services like GamePass, in fact Microsoft investing early into VR could BOOST the value perception of GamePass so...why are they still ducking it?

Not to mention that there is zero chance of the PS5 or future consoles supporting the Quest or any other non Sony VR headset since they make their own.

That's not really an issue; Microsoft aren't going to allow a direct GamePass competitor like Stadia or Luna on their consoles or certainly at the level of OS integration GamePass has, and that's perfectly fine. Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo...they are platform holders and they're always going to favor products and technologies they wholly own over those they don't. If that means locking out competitor products, so be it, just as long as what they end up offering themselves is of comparable or superior quality to what's being locked out.

It's once locking options out produces a noticeable detriment to the ecosystem, where it's time to make changes and open up, lest your base leave and go towards better alternatives.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
By "serious fans" you mean "delusional fans" right? The gaming industry is much broader than the nonsense you see on this forum. Like I previously said, the concept of "killer apps" doesn't really apply to VR because the selling point is the experience as a whole and how intuitive that experience is. As long as someone can find one good experience that they can enjoy, regardless of the genre, then that will sell them on VR.

Along with the data I provided above the fact is that the quest 2 has outsold both the Xbox Series consoles and the PS5 since their respective launches. If you want to continue to bury your head in the sand and argue that it's not yet mainstream then that's your problem, I guess the consoles aren't mainstream either then.
The thing about VR and its apps is that 95% of them are "wiggle your arms in a virtual space" kind of shovelware. It feels a lot like the Wii and the novelty of moving your arms to bowl. The success of Quest 2 is partly due to access to a good VR option that doesn't need a powerful PC to drive it. But I'd wager that a decent chunk of people are going to put it down once the novelty wears off since most of the experiences are short 15 minute "done that" kinds of things. So I don't think it's quite mainstream yet, but standalone wireless VR devices like Quest are what's going to solidify it in the mainstream over time.

But in principle I agree with you that the draw to VR is experiences and not necessarily games. People want to go to London or Paris or Dubai or some other city they'll never see in real life and experience it. You can kind of do that with YouTube VR, but watching it isn't as immersive as moving through it yourself. Or going to space or other virtual worlds and exploring. Good simulations are what people are going to want. With and without gaming elements.
 

Romulus

Member
The thing about VR and its apps is that 95% of them are "wiggle your arms in a virtual space" kind of shovelware. It feels a lot like the Wii and the novelty of moving your arms to bowl. The success of Quest 2 is partly due to access to a good VR option that doesn't need a powerful PC to drive it. But I'd wager that a decent chunk of people are going to put it down once the novelty wears off since most of the experiences are short 15 minute "done that" kinds of things. So I don't think it's quite mainstream yet, but standalone wireless VR devices like Quest are what's going to solidify it in the mainstream over time.

But in principle I agree with you that the draw to VR is experiences and not necessarily games. People want to go to London or Paris or Dubai or some other city they'll never see in real life and experience it. You can kind of do that with YouTube VR, but watching it isn't as immersive as moving through it yourself. Or going to space or other virtual worlds and exploring. Good simulations are what people are going to want. With and without gaming elements.


I don't think 95% of the Quest store is "wiggle your arms in virtual space." I see alot of variety beyond that. I would say less than 10% of the Quest store is what you're talking about.
 

GymWolf

Member
Tbh there are so many games now people are going to leave off favorites.
I'd argue that gorn is still the most fun gladiator\arena game out there, from the gore to the sense of impact to just the humor.

Only flaw (but it is by design) are the rubbery weapons, but you can't do neat tricks thanks to that.
 
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Ozriel

M$FT
Careful now, your ignorance is showing.

Beat Saber
RE4 VR
Boneworks
Asgard's Wrath
Stormland
Echo VR
Population One
Superhot VR
Pistol Whip
Skyrim VR
Fallout 4 VR
Pretty much every racing Sim released in the last ~5 years has full VR support
Eleven Table Tennis
Pavlov VR
Then there are a bunch of "normal" popular games that also happen to have full VR support such as The Forest, No Man's Sky and Plasmophobia.

Oh and there's this title that isn't considered a "game" by many but still racks up huge numbers:

RESqHaj.jpg


It's gone mainstream whether you like it or not:

d7qqi5fjvr781.png





P.S. It's not PC VR that is pushing VR into the mainstream, it's standalone devices like the quest 2 which people will then also use with a PC or buy a decent PC to get more use out of it.



Well said. The Quest 2 is pretty much the best thing that's happened to VR in ages

By AAA I meant killer titles that fans of the relevant genre would want to own and may buy the hardware just to play.....not AAA production values....

This thread is still about VR taking off as a mainstream gaming competitor right? Or am I missing something?

But most of the games on the list GHG GHG provided are killer titles.
Beat Saber needs no introduction. RE4 VR is utterly brilliant. Storm lands, Asgard's wrath etc are excellent titles. Skyrim VR needs no introduction.
 
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Ozriel

M$FT
PSVR might not end up being the standard WRT install base, but it could be in terms of leading software that drives VR-centric game design, which is the more important point out of the two. As far as building a VR device, you're right that would be effortless for Microsoft, but you can't just "build" experience in VR or AR game design out of thin air. You can maybe acquire it, sure, but that presents its own issues not the least of which is, if that talent is even up for wanting to be acquired in the first place.

MS has a stable of 1P that could get the ropes of that type of design in decent time, but then there's the issue of rapport among gamers in that space, which is something you only really build with, among other things, time.

You're needlessly complicating matters here. There's no cut off point for jumping into the VR game that's still very nascent. All MS would need to do would be to either allow popular VR headset(s) to work on their console, or leverage on their own expertise building their Windows MR headsets and make something for Xbox and PC. There's enough third party development out there to flesh out the library.

I suspect the existence of the Series S permanently precludes them from getting into the VR game, but I could be wrong...
 
You're needlessly complicating matters here. There's no cut off point for jumping into the VR game that's still very nascent. All MS would need to do would be to either allow popular VR headset(s) to work on their console, or leverage on their own expertise building their Windows MR headsets and make something for Xbox and PC. There's enough third party development out there to flesh out the library.

3P software alone isn't going to give whatever VR solution they craft enough unique presence to stand out in a crowding VR market. It'll come down to 1P games and that means 1P teams having experience designing games for VR.

The longer MS holds out on providing any real means of a VR solution (be it in-house or with allowing 3P devices to function on the system, which IMO is probably the approach MS will take), the longer it'll be for internal teams to get hands-on experience designing games with VR in mind, unless they are already doing so for PC side like iD Software.

I suspect the existence of the Series S permanently precludes them from getting into the VR game, but I could be wrong...

I hope it doesn't, and realistically I don't think it should. You can do cheap VR on smartphones in limited capacity, and stuff like the Quest 2 are using processing hardware clearly weaker than Series S, so that shouldn't act as an impediment for VR on Xbox platforms going forward.
 

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
Beat Saber is some floating blocks set to music. It's popular but it's definitely not a killer app, and honestly I think it's just the tech that is basically selling it. It's definitely viral though on youtube and social media as well. The novelty of wearing the headset and seeing it in VR is the main selling point of such a simple game.
I highly disagree with this:messenger_angry:. Beat Saber was easily the Quest 2's "killer app" up until RE4. Beat Saber is not just blocks, it's lightsabers. And those blocks make you move in an unexpected and rhythmic fashion to the music, almost like dancing. It's one of the best games for mixed reality it looks fucking awesome like Jedi Michael Jackson.
 
I highly disagree with this:messenger_angry:. Beat Saber was easily the Quest 2's "killer app" up until RE4. Beat Saber is not just blocks, it's lightsabers. And those blocks make you move in an unexpected and rhythmic fashion to the music, almost like dancing. It's one of the best games for mixed reality it looks fucking awesome like Jedi Michael Jackson.
It's neat. I even made a thread on it back in the day lol. But I'm just saying, it is still just blocks floating in the air. It's clearly popular though and fun to play. I'm waiting to get it on sale.

 

Ceadeus

Member
I've installed Half Life and Doom 3 on the Quest 2. Next is Return to castle wolfestein and quake 1&2.

At more than 10M unit sold, big developers really should start making games for the device.
 

Marvel14

Banned
So what's the number then bro? We can make a thread later because you deem a specific number mainstream. I guess the GameCube, N64, etc, etc, weren't mainstream because 10 million in a year crushed them both. N64 didn't even crack 4 million, so we're literally at over 2x.


Some more interesting data for the first year of sales. I guess the ps2 was the only mainstream device, but not the Quest 2.

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Once you see the majority of gamers embrace VR as one of the main ways they play. You're comparing apples and oranges. VR is not like a single console. Its a new form for the medium. Like Laser disc which didn't have sufficient market penetration to become mainstream. Without being scientific I'd say when 30-40% of gamers worldwide buy and regularly play for at least a year....How's that?
 

Marvel14

Banned
Well said. The Quest 2 is pretty much the best thing that's happened to VR in ages



But most of the games on the list GHG GHG provided are killer titles.
Beat Saber needs no introduction. RE4 VR is utterly brilliant. Storm lands, Asgard's wrath etc are excellent titles. Skyrim VR needs no introduction.
Problem is that several of those are available to play without VR...you need a critical mass of games [experiences]that are must play in VR for most people.
 
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Marvel14

Banned
The thing about VR and its apps is that 95% of them are "wiggle your arms in a virtual space" kind of shovelware. It feels a lot like the Wii and the novelty of moving your arms to bowl. The success of Quest 2 is partly due to access to a good VR option that doesn't need a powerful PC to drive it. But I'd wager that a decent chunk of people are going to put it down once the novelty wears off since most of the experiences are short 15 minute "done that" kinds of things. So I don't think it's quite mainstream yet, but standalone wireless VR devices like Quest are what's going to solidify it in the mainstream over time.

But in principle I agree with you that the draw to VR is experiences and not necessarily games. People want to go to London or Paris or Dubai or some other city they'll never see in real life and experience it. You can kind of do that with YouTube VR, but watching it isn't as immersive as moving through it yourself. Or going to space or other virtual worlds and exploring. Good simulations are what people are going to want. With and without gaming elements.
Careful...you're going to cause upset with those rational and logical points.
 

Marvel14

Banned
By "serious fans" you mean "delusional fans" right? The gaming industry is much broader than the nonsense you see on this forum. Like I previously said, the concept of "killer apps" doesn't really apply to VR because the selling point is the experience as a whole and how intuitive that experience is. As long as someone can find one good experience that they can enjoy, regardless of the genre, then that will sell them on VR.

Along with the data I provided above the fact is that the quest 2 has outsold both the Xbox Series consoles and the PS5 since their respective launches. If you want to continue to bury your head in the sand and argue that it's not yet mainstream then that's your problem, I guess the consoles aren't mainstream either then.
My name is GHG and I don't like people with views different from mine to argue with me on a discussion forum.

I think they are: delusional and laughable with nonsense views. I'm also a big fan of sales-based schadenfreude....

Hear me roar.
 
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Romulus

Member
Once you see the majority of gamers embrace VR as one of the main ways they play. You're comparing apples and oranges. VR is not like a single console. Its a new form for the medium. Like Laser disc which didn't have sufficient market penetration to become mainstream. Without being scientific I'd say when 30-40% of gamers worldwide buy and regularly play for at least a year....How's that?


Thats not really my point. You can't compare quest 2 in its first year to other devices that had 5+ years to establish 'mainstream' with that 40% number you pulled out of a hat.

And we don't need to look at this as a single console. We can look at an entire generation of consoles that were definitely mainstream. Genesis and snes combined first year sales for example are far less than Quest 2. I would wager ps3 and xbox 360 first year sales combined aren't much higher than quest 2.
But its difficult to argue that even the most successful versions of mainstream consoles aren't all hitting Quests numbers. Thats also a good argument, especially considering a year ago the majority of people were saying vr is dead. Somehow it rocketed out of death, skipped 'sustainable' and is already in the conversation as a mainstream form of meduim. In one year.
 
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Careful...your irrational fanboyism is showing. I never said I didn't like it and most of those games you listed most people have never heard of so don't qualify as killer AAA games.


It's OK VR will be fine whether you defend it or not...
You asked for killer apps and he delivered. Beat Saber alone is worth the 300 bucks imo. You don't need to be an AAAAAA $500m budget game to be a killer app.
 

Marvel14

Banned
Thats not really my point. You can't compare quest 2 in its first year to other devices that had 5+ years to establish 'mainstream' with that 40% number you pulled out of a hat.

And we don't need to look at this as a single console. We can look at an entire generation of consoles that were definitely mainstream. Genesis and snes combined first year sales for example are far less than Quest 2. I would wager ps3 and xbox 360 first year sales combined aren't much higher than quest 2.
But its difficult to argue that even the most successful versions of mainstream consoles aren't all hitting Quests numbers. Thats also a good argument, especially considering a year ago the majority of people were saying vr is dead. Somehow it rocketed out of death, skipped 'sustainable' and is already in the conversation as a mainstream form of meduim. In one year.


The only weakness in your argument is that the market is much bigger than when the consoles you mention were released. It's possible to sell millions and not be "mainstream" nowadays. That's what makes the conversation interesting. Finding the right metric is not as straightforward.
 

Marvel14

Banned
You asked for killer apps and he delivered. Beat Saber alone is worth the 300 bucks imo. You don't need to be an AAAAAA $500m budget game to be a killer app.
Dont disagree but my proposition is that you need 10 "must play in VR" games/experiences across different genres. 1 is definitely a start. Several others that GHG mentioned which can also be played on traditional consoles dont count.
 
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ReBurn

Gold Member
I don't think 95% of the Quest store is "wiggle your arms in virtual space." I see alot of variety beyond that. I would say less than 10% of the Quest store is what you're talking about.
I would say less than 10% of the Quest store is worth actually spending money on. But that's just me. The rest is pretty awesome stuff.
 
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