DeepEnigma
Gold Member
For Microsoft.
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[Opinion] April 2023 is the beginning of the end for Xbox as we know it.
- Thread starter Heisenberg007
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PonyStation4
Member
Some peoples primary platform of choice was the Vita. What you personally use has no relevance to the global market
Batiman
Banned
Ok but the market still shows it’s relevance
Because its an income opportunity, have ABK in the same operation as Mojang means they can profit from multiplatform sales and Game Pass.
Nydius
Member
Indeed. Rumors of Xbox's death have been greatly exaggerated ever since the day Microsoft announced they were making it.
I remember people saying it would never get off the ground.
That the OG Xbox would fail because it was just a "budget PC" console.
That the Xbox 360 RROD expense would kill them.
That the bungled Xbox One launch would kill them.
And yet they're still kicking.
Unless they get some new leadership that decides to abandon hardware entirely, Xbox as a hardware brand will be here for a long, long time. They'll just forever be in third place. Which, someone needs to tell Microsoft, is okay. Nothing wrong with third place so long as they have products, games, and services people want to buy.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
2 and a half years in and xbox has already sold more than failed platforms such as gamecube, og xbox and wii u.
They should easily hit 50 million this gen, but it is on them to get the games out. If they don't get the games out and sales perform worse than xbox one then there's only themselves to blame. With strong software this year and beyond they should hit 6p mill maybe more but I think they just have to cough up for some major third party exclusives. It shows how important it is.
They should just pay whatever it takes to get gta 6 campaign as like a 1 or 2 year exclusive. They need something big like that.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Why you gotta be shitting on the Vita tho
Draxon Gamer
Banned
I find the concept interesting, that Product A and B are both successful and doing better than prior, and Product A manages to boost its success, therefore for some reason Product B now must be doing poorly instead of in reality doing just as well as it was before, but just not doing as well as Product A.
Xbox isn't doing worse than it was before Sony after the recent holidays where it gained momentum and stock supply. The only change is PS5 is doing better than what it did before.
I don't see how people are viewing this as the end of Xbox. Let me know when Xbox is selling 5 figures and then maybe it would be appropriate to predict their doom.
Also, someone mentioned that Xbox stepped in after Sega left, this is not true. Xbox was already entering before Sega left they didn't replace anyone and when you consider what games Xbox brought with it compared to Sega's this should be without a doubt.
Xbox isn't doing worse than it was before Sony after the recent holidays where it gained momentum and stock supply. The only change is PS5 is doing better than what it did before.
I don't see how people are viewing this as the end of Xbox. Let me know when Xbox is selling 5 figures and then maybe it would be appropriate to predict their doom.
Also, someone mentioned that Xbox stepped in after Sega left, this is not true. Xbox was already entering before Sega left they didn't replace anyone and when you consider what games Xbox brought with it compared to Sega's this should be without a doubt.
Draxon Gamer
Banned
I find the concept interesting, that Product A and B are both successful and doing better than prior, and Product A manages to boost its success, therefore for some reason Product B now must be doing poorly instead of in reality doing just as well as it was before, but just not doing as well as Product A.
Xbox isn't doing worse than it was before Sony after the recent holidays where it gained momentum and stock supply. The only change is PS5 is doing better than what it did before.
I don't see how people are viewing this as the end of Xbox. Let me know when Xbox is selling 5 figures and then maybe it would be appropiate to predict their doom.
Xbox isn't doing worse than it was before Sony after the recent holidays where it gained momentum and stock supply. The only change is PS5 is doing better than what it did before.
I don't see how people are viewing this as the end of Xbox. Let me know when Xbox is selling 5 figures and then maybe it would be appropiate to predict their doom.
Huh?
Bumblebeetuna
Member
This. People are too simple minded sometimes and just look at platform totals. They miss the forest for the trees, OP included. All you need to ask yourself is if Microsoft makes more money as a platform holder than they would as a publisher. And the answer is a resounding yes, even if their platform gets outsold by Sony and Nintendo’s platform.
Obviously this changes if the Xbox platform nosedives and sells abysmally, but no rational person expects that to happen.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Switch and Playstation continue to gain users and sell consoles at a rapid pace. Xbox doesn't. Xbox is losing ground in countries outside the US by an increasing amount.
The only ones in denial here are fanboys.
vaibhavpisal
Member
I will address this head on.
Xbox makes great games.
Having played Grounded, Sea of Thieves, I will say I prefer them over 3rd person cinematic titles.
Their issue is, they are not easy to get into. But once you do, it's so good.
Fredrik
Member
Would Rockstar do that though?
Playstation is big enough now that any Xbox exclusivity on games that could’ve come to Playstation will get slaughtered by negative PR on boards and social media. Unless there is a simultaneous PC release backup plan for people without an Xbox it will hurt the IP more than any amount of money MS can give them.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Warriors like me? lol. Making predictions, based on available data and trends, that you don't like is now warring?This is what warriors likeHeisenberg007 don't think about...It's like they cant see how even this generation Microsoft had benefited Sonys fans. Playstation plus extra is pretty damn great and it would never exist if it wasn't for MS. We need competition and even with Microsoft selling 50 to 60 million consoles a generation is enough to keep Sony on their toes.
Never once I said that I want Xbox to die and shut off. I said that this is what I'm seeing happening, based on their current performance and trends.
Keep your blame game out of my face.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
King is almost half of its revenue right?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
not great enough for what is expected of such big company.
Kamina
Golden Boy
Maybe, doesnt change the name of the company though.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Day 1 GP deals are obviously more gamer-friendly, in the sense that GP users get the games without any additional cost. However, they may not be the best decision financially and from a business POV.
There is a general sentiment that because of Microsoft's insistence of GP day 1 deals, they haven't been able to secure as many exclusives or timed exclusives.
Regarding timed exclusives, they are not necessarily bad for the industry; it depends on how they are executed. When PlayStation secures a timed exclusive (like Tchia/Kena or FFXVI), it's a partnership where they help those developers make the game and market them. In returns, Sony asks them to release the game first on PlayStation. It results in a better more ambitious game.
In the case of exclusive content (like Hogwart's Legacy's exclusive PS quest), I also see that as a partnership. PlayStation helped them market the heck of that game. HL sold gangbusters, and PlayStation had a big role in that. The entire gaming industry benefited from that partnership. In return, PS got one more quest.
Unless PlayStation/Xbox is getting something in return, there would not be enough incentive to do these types of partnerships.
Same goes for Stalker 2 and Xbox. Stalker 2 would not be made if not for Microsoft. I'm not mad about that partnership (timed exclusivity). The industry benefited from it.
Nydius
Member
I suppose because it’s easier than typing Activision Blizzard, or ActiBlizz. Plus it properly conveys the three largest groups under the corporate umbrella. Not to mention that’s what the workers themselves call the place.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
i am sure of that.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
That has been my main issue as well.
I absolutely love the Ori series, and I'd buy a $70 Ori sequel on day one if Microsoft ever makes it. But Microsoft is a $2 trillion company that makes games that AA publishers often make with that AA level quality, i.e., State of Decay 2, Crackdown 3, Bleeding Edge, etc.
They should be making big $200 million blockbusters AAA games that no other company -- not even Sony -- could attempt. Because MS has the resources that no other gaming company has. Use your USP!
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Agreed. Putting big AAA games on there day one (especially the ones they acquire) just doesn't make financial sense.
Regarding indies, I at least partially agree with you. The rest would be a separate discussion, but I'd recommend reading this article.
Finji CEO: Subscriptions are simultaneously "awesome and terrifying"
The industry goes in cycles for indies, Finji CEO Bekah Saltsman tells us in a discussion at last October's Megamigs co…
www.gamesindustry.biz
It's a very good, balanced piece. Finji CEO, Bekah Saltsman, put Tunic on Game Pass, and many others that she didn't. So she has a first-hands experience of what goes on when they put an indie on Game Pass and when they didn't.
The counterargument to your point is that GP has created a terrible situation for indie developers and games who choose not to put their games on Game Pass.
Give it a read; it's very interesting and balanced.
Little Chicken
Member
What an idiotic thread.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
MS hands were/are tied.Jez Said last night that Xbox stopped acquisitions and shit because the ABK deal lmao
They wasted 16 months on this deal and Xbox has been left for Dead marketing & games wise because all money was in this Basket
Kamina
Golden Boy
As long as they dont want to change it, it will remain as is.
Ronin_7
Banned
They gave away this generation because this deal.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
there is a lot of uncertainty even between Xbox fans.
Little Chicken
Member
There's a lot of hand-wringing about nothing, people who think Microsoft are suddenly going to pull out of gaming are being foolish.
Poltz
Member
Never happening.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
that is idiotic.
the conversation around Xbox/MS has not being about them pulling out of gaming.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
We do. These forum dudes have been saying that ABK would be blocked, while Phil Spencer was even "more confident" that the deal would be approved.
Phil Spencer is "more confident" in the Activision Blizzard deal now than he was a year ago
The company is "working with regulatory boards around the world" to help make sure it can go through.
www.windowscentral.com
Stop thinking these executives, who have run businesses into the ground, know any better.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
This deal did speed it up, but I think they lost the generation the moment they didn't make must-have games in the first 2 years.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Excellent contribution, Little Chicken.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Exactly. Some people get triggered for no reason. This conversation has been about the possibility of Microsoft tweaking its gaming business model - nothing more than that.
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Fredrik
Member
It’s scary but selling individual games honestly won’t work much longer unless you’re the biggest dev with the biggest IPs.Agreed. Putting big AAA games on there day one (especially the ones they acquire) just doesn't make financial sense.
Regarding indies, I at least partially agree with you. The rest would be a separate discussion, but I'd recommend reading this article.
Finji CEO: Subscriptions are simultaneously "awesome and terrifying"
The industry goes in cycles for indies, Finji CEO Bekah Saltsman tells us in a discussion at last October's Megamigs co…
It's a very good, balanced piece. Finji CEO, Bekah Saltsman, put Tunic on Game Pass, and many others that she didn't. So she has a first-hands experience of what goes on when they put an indie on Game Pass and when they didn't.
The counterargument to your point is that GP has created a terrible situation for indie developers and games who choose not to put their games on Game Pass.
Give it a read; it's very interesting and balanced.
I never bought indie games in the past, I heard people talk about them but never bought anything besides a few hyped ones like Braid and The Witness. I simply played the biggest AAA games with the highest scores and skipped the rest. It was enough for my time and cost me enough.
And today I never buy indies because I get enough through Gamepass (and PS+ Premium because it’s very similar but rarely talked about), I don’t even buy AAA games unless I have to, if I can wait I know they’ll be on a subscription library,
The big difference now is that I now play small stuff like Loop Hero as well as the mid sized ones like Scorn and The Ascent and the huge ones with mid user reception like Wo Long. I play a ton of games. I think my 2022 stats on Xbox showed that I played like 90 titles or something like that.
Would I keep playing small indies and the mid sized games without high scores without Gamepass?
Nope.
I would just go back to what I did before and play Uncharted, Gears, Forza, GT etc and skip the rest. Would be enough for my time and would cost me enough.
So I see subscription libraries as an inevitable evolution, it’s what will keep anything less that AAA alive. It’s just like what has happened to TV Shows. When did you last buy a TV Show box? Maybe some early GOT season? When did you buy a TV Show box for a less hyped show? I have a shelf full of season boxes but it was many many years since I bought something now and less popular shows was never bought.
Would a TV Show outside of any streaming service even survive today? I doubt it. I know I wouldn’t watch it anyhow, probably wouldn’t even know it existed.
I think that’s where gaming is heading, like it or not, and it can’t be stopped.
The devs who don’t adapt and evolve will disappear. The big ones will survive because people will keep on buying the big 10/10 games, for awhile. The Tunic devs and similar small devs could survive with high enough scores on their games, but one wrong step and they’ll be gone, the masses won’t bother checking if the game is good, they’ll look at the scores and go nah.
With a subscription library more will check out your game, because there is no investment, it’s just a press of a button and some download time. Like I could say that Loop Hero is one of the most unique games I’ve played in years (it really is) and I know someone out there will go hit that install button on Gamepass, because why not?
When looking deeper into the crystal ball I see episodic content being a big thing within 5 years. Could evolve from something like No Man’s Sky and Forza Horizon where the core gameplay is similar but new things are added once a year or so. The static 10 year gigantic full game releases will slowly fade away and evolve into episodic games as a service games. Us oldies won’t be around to witness it fully but our kids will, and they won’t care because that’s what they’re already used to in everything else they do and just means less waiting for new content. And retro gaming won’t exist, the Commodore 64 cassette library will outlive what I’ll have on my Xbox.
MasterCornholio
Member
Jez Said last night that Xbox stopped acquisitions and shit because the ABK deal lmao
They wasted 16 months on this deal and Xbox has been left for Dead marketing & games wise because all money was in this Basket
WTF
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
I was meaning by that that PC games were more on niches part of gaming, like strategy games.
Of course they made great games. If they didn't Xbox would have already died. But you can't beat the combo of nostalgia, great marketing, seniority and regularity that Sony studios have for people like me with just one or 2 games. TLOU is a 13 years old game. GOW began in the PS2 era. And yet those games are still at the forefront of gaming today. A combination of those 4 advantages make some of those games obvious buy, even if seen objectively they could be weaker than a Xbox first party game in some regard. When on top of that some of Xbox old IPs failed to go to the next level like Halo Infinite and the new IPs are not that good in comparison to what Sony offer like Returnal, Ghost of Tsushima...
I have to say it again just in case: I was talking about Xbox reception outside the US . Xbox managed to become dominant in the US with the 360 and the newer generation probably grew with it, and so the nostalgia they have to games like GTA4 and 5 was with the 360. Outside the USA this is not the case. And this difference in perception is a problem that Xbox refused to fix the hard way, by making deals with EU studios, investing there and giving one of the biggest market for gaming in the world the attention it deserves. Buying ABK is them trying this the easy way. And if this fail as it seems to be dead right now, the question has to be asked ? What now?
To finish about Xbox games. I like platformers and roguelikes. So Ori and Cuphead would have been games that I would be interrested if they were on PS4 day one. They didn't. So I played what was available at the time on my console. One day I may go back to those games but it would need me to have the time. This is one of Xbox problems. They need regularity. Enough games that you think that you will have your gaming fix from them in the type of games that you like. Having one or 2 games every few years that interest me is not enough, especially when I could get them on PC. Vampire Survivors is another one. Xbox exclusive( I think) I got it recently on PC and I love it. But it does not give me any link to Xbox, if you see what I mean by that. But RE 4 remake does make me happy about my PS5, even if this is the same situation. The perception is not the same. This is part of Xbox problems. Their perception is no good outside the US. In contrast Jin Ryan came from the EU part of Sony. For your last sentence, you need to try games to like them. And this needs to be made aware of them. And once again the marketing of Xbox is shit outside the US, especially for people like me who do not need/ want Gamepass.
MasterCornholio
Member
It's not that.
Xbox will continue however they might change their plans due to this. Whether that's a good or a bad thing for the brand remains to be seen.
Heisenberg007
Yeah I see it that way as well. Now they got the message that buying massive publishers is going to be extremely difficult. They will probably change their strategy and hopefully work with what they already have. I can still see them buying smaller studios and growing them which isn't a bad thing. Only issue with this is that it will take time. Sony didn't exactly build up their 1st parties in just a gen. It took them multiple gens and failures to get where they are today. All this depends on is how patient Microsoft is with Xbox.
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xrnzaaas
Member
Yep look at Sony, they've had a big success with PS4 and they immediately got cocky with their anti-consumer practices since the beginning of the current generation. If MS stopped making consoles Sony would have a free reign and since building a gaming PC is very expensive many gamers wouldn't have an alternative.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Of course it isn't...I'm just saying it's what they SHOULD do.
Flutta
Banned
Keep that same energy during the next Xbox showcase, because you’ll see alot of those deals from team Xbox.
Your second argument makes no sense tbh. Why would Activition want to deal with the smallest userbase, a plattform that won’t make them the most money because they’re hell bent on renting games instead of selling them? They went with Sony for a reason.
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vaibhavpisal
Member
I get it. System is a bit like PC where on Steam if you check most played games, most of them sound unknown. Yet have dedicated fanbase that keep playing day in and out.
This is in complete contrast to how PlayStation market it's games with huge upfront hype. Makes you interested in playing them.
Personally, not a big fan of getting hyped for a game. I don't judge a game till I start moving the stick.
As for their marketing being US centric, yes, that's true. That's what they choose to be. And I am ok with that. No company needs to market me anything.
Slicker than your average
Banned
Op makes some good points. However, Id rather Xbox be in the market just not by buying up all major 3rd parties. Taking huge amount of known ips that were multiplat and making them exclusive isn't the way.
Literally the lazy way because they fail in making gaming.
Literally the lazy way because they fail in making gaming.
Poltz
Member
That would cost billions. It doesn't make sense.
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