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[Part I] Thoughts on six patent applications related to a unique PS5, and what it may mean for SIE's future

GAF machine

Member
Part 1: CELL inside a second PS5

Last year a patent application drove speculation that SIE was working on PS3 emulation and/or peripheral support for current PS5 consoles, but I think the speculation is off base. In the 'Images' section of the application, there's an illustration labeled FIG. 14 that shows a PS3 labeled '1400'. The illustration is for a console that is not a PS3 in the original sense. It's actually for a backwards compatible PS5 that's PS3-like at the hardware level.

This unique PS5 starts to come into focus in entry [0203] of the application. It states: "The game console 1400 is an example of game console 402 (FIG. 4A)." Head up to entry [0073] and it reads: "The game console 402 is an example of the updated machine. For example, the game console 402 is the PS4™ or the PS5™".

In plain language, game console 1400 is an updated machine that plays PS4 and PS5 games. When it comes to playing PS1 and PS2 games, entries [0075], [0049], [0050], [0051] and [0081] (read in this order to get the gist) state that game console 402 has an 'emulated processing system' that takes PS1 or PS2 emulated PU code (i.e. PS1 or PS2 machine/binary code stored in memory as 'gcN'; per entry [0052] this code can't be executed by an updated machine if it hasn't been converted), converts a portion of the emulated PU code (i.e. gcN) into basic blocks of intermediate game code (i.e. 'GCN', not to be confused with gcN), compiles the blocks of GCN, then dispatches the blocks to game console 402's CPU and GPU to perform the operations of a legacy game in the same way a PS1 or PS2 would.

The emulated processing system works the same on game console 1400 as it does on a game console 402 (i.e., a PS4 or current PS5), but game console 1400 is different in that it can process CPU related basic blocks of GCN code on a CELL processor. Entry [0204] is clear about this. It reads: "For example, when the player is playing the legacy game N generated by execution of a portion of a game code, such as the game code GCN, the I/O bridge 1434 receives input data or an input signal, described herein, from a game controller 1342 (FIG. 13) or 1403 and/or from the HMD 1405 via a Bluetooth link and directs the input data to the cell processor 1428, which updates a current state of the legacy game N accordingly. As an example, a camera within the HMD 1405 captures a gesture of the player to generate an image representing the gesture."

Clearly, game console 1400 is not the PS3 of yesteryear. If it were, there would be no mention of CELL executing blocks of GCN code to run a legacy game that's playable in VR with a camera embedded HMD (e.g., PS VR2). Moreover if it were, the first sentence in entry [0203] would've read verbatim like the first sentence in entry [0108] of this patent application. Entry [0108] refers to the console illustrated in FIG. 8 as a PS3. Entry [0203] doesn't refer to game console 1400 (FIG. 14) as a PS3 because it's a PS5 that seemingly:

  • plays disc and digital versions of PS1, PS2, PS3 games, digital versions of PSP games.
  • Share Plays disc and digital versions of PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4 and PS5 games, digital versions of PSP games between itself and another game console 1400 or other updated machines (per entry [0049] in the first application, the other updated machines are: "a Sony PlayStation™ 4 (PS4™) or a Sony PlayStation™ 5 (PS5™) or a desktop computer or a laptop computer or a smartphone or a smart television.")
  • plays S3D PS3 games and presumably select PS2, PS1 games (e.g., Warhawk PS1 illustrated in FIG. 4) in VR should SIE choose to retrofit them.
  • allows users to connect old PS3 peripherals (e.g., a PSP or PS2 card reader) via WiFi, Bluetooth or USB to use remotely and/or retrieve data from, like an actual PS3.

Game console 1400 is extremely unlikely to be anything else, and it squares with Masayasu Ito's (recently exited head of PS hardware) understanding at the time of PS4 that: "Realistically, to support backwards compatibility with PS3, the CELL Broadband Engine would have needed to been part of the new console."

Another intriguing aspect of the application is that it was published ~3 months before Tom Henderson dropped his report about a 'D chassis' PS5. I doubt that's coincidental. I get the sense that game console 1400 is a CELL-integrated version of the rumored D chassis PS5, which Henderson doesn't know about.

Now, the patent application I just dissected isn't the only one to imply that SIE solved LANL's age old simple arithmetic equation. A second patent application also implies that SIE did the math. In FIG. 10 of the application, there's a generic console illustrated and labeled ‘600’. Entry [0091] refers to this console as device 600 (FIG. 14 and device 600 relate to dual CPU PS3-like servers that I'll touch on in Part 2). Even though device 600 is shown having a single CPU, the first sentence of entry [0092] reads: "In accordance with various embodiments, CPU 602 is one or more general-purpose microprocessors having one or more processing cores." And the last sentence in entry [0091] reads: "CPU 602 may be comprised of one or more homogeneous or heterogeneous processing cores."

In other words, CPU 602 can consist of two CPUs. One CPU can have homogeneous cores, the other CPU heterogeneous cores. This eliminates the possibility of device 600 being a PS3 or PS4 derivative because SIE can't add a homogeneous or heterogeneous CPU to either console. PS3 is discontinued, and PS4's time has passed. PS5 is the only console that SIE has an option to add a CPU into. It seems they've decided to exercise that option by putting CELL inside a version of the rumored D chassis PS5, which will share the same optional detachable disc drive with its standard D chassis PS5 counterpart.

tl;dr

A patent application thought to be about PS3 emulation/peripheral support, is actually about a new PS1/PS2 emulator that runs on a CELL-integrated PS5 model (also runs on PS4, existing PS5 models). This PS5 seems to only support two PS3-era peripherals: PSP and the PS2 card reader. Interestingly, the application was published ~3 months before Tom Henderson reported on a 'D chassis' PS5 model. I see the timing of these two events as suggestive that at some point SIE will release a CELL-integrated D chassis PS5 that shares the same optional detachable disc drive. Given the feature set of this PS5, it may have been developed/test manufactured in total secrecy to prevent leaks. Be that as it may, the patent application leaves little doubt in my mind about its existence.


Part 2: AI-governed CELL-accelerated cloud-gaming systems for Plus-only 'super games'
Part 3: A distributed ledger for Home built on a network of CELL-accelerated GCSs
 
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The Rock What GIF
 

Knightime_X

Member
Sony is hardly unique in this aspect, large corporations apply for way more patents than are implemented/enforced.
Sure, but it's quite annoying to see so many promising patents that never happen.
Especially in the gaming industry. I'd much prefer them to be hush hush until at least an actual prototype is ready.
 

nemiroff

Gold Member
Like 99% of those patents never see the light of day.

..Which is why I kinda don't get why people keep posting patents and or applications as newsworthy. Method patents especially since they will most likely never ever be used, because they are mostly completely useless.

The big tech companies usually each apply for up to 3-4000 patents (sometimes more) each year.. Patent offices are of course encouraging applications because they make tons of money on this crap.

Btw, I regret involving myself in patent applications at work, it's one of the most torturous ordeals ever. Never again.
 
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Knightime_X

Member
..Which is why I kinda don't get why people keep posting patents and or applications as newsworthy. Method patents especially since they will most likely never ever be used, because they are mostly completely useless.

The big tech companies usually each apply for up to 3-4000 patents (sometimes more) each year.. Patent offices are of course encouraging applications because they make tons of money on this crap.

Btw, I regret involving myself in patent applications at work, it's one of the most torturous ordeals ever. Never again.
We'd probably see a lot less patents if there was a law stating you can't sue someone because you made the patent first.
You have to have a provable registered working prototype to make any claims.
Maybe there is a law. I dunno.
 

solidus12

Member
Just rerelease the original Phat PS3 with hardware based backwards compatibility with a 500gb hard drive and updated internals not prone to failure and you're golden.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
I wish they had integrated it into the original PS5 hardware, because then with a common base they could allow developers to use it for assistance in PS5 games

Would it add much in the grand scheme, probably not overly, but if the hardware is going to be added cost wise later on then the common base for everything would have been ideal. Maybe some developer somewhere will love to use their 256kib SPU code for something lol.
 
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diffusionx

Gold Member
Probably nothing. First of all, Sony will never put general emulation on their consoles, it will all go through PS Store. They will also never put any PS3 specific hardware in a new console. Nobody makes the Cell and there is no successor chip on the market, either, so it’s not like they are going to start fabbing them for PS5.

The existence of PC emulators disproves the idea that you need Cell hardware to make this work, but if that is how Sony feels then it’s fair to say that PS3 games will never run on Sony hardware.
 
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