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[akira28]

Care to expand on this?

There was a documentary or a book or something out about sex workers who assist disabled people or people who have debilitating social issues or people who for some reason are otherwise incapable of having sex. I guess that's the nursing aspect, being something of a sexual caregiver for some people.

I remember hearing it on NPR anyway. Can't find it on google, but there are a lot of websites about the subject.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Ultimately if you're paying for it and she won't do it unless you pay, it's prostitution.

Pretty simple actually. Unless you want to talk about tipping her? Ooooh let's make this a tipping thread!

Imagine how long you would have a girlfriend if you tipped your current girlfriend.

 

[DrBo42]

Ultimately if you're paying for it and she won't do it unless you pay, it's prostitution.

Pretty simple actually. Unless you want to talk about tipping her? Ooooh let's make this a tipping thread!

Imagine how long you would have a girlfriend if you tipped your current girlfriend.

It's called dinner or ice cream after sex.

 

[davepoobond]

It's called dinner or ice cream after sex.

so then all women are prostitutes

 

[params7]

Yeah, some parlors do this. Don't see a problem as long as none of the workers are not forced into it, to them its rub another body part and get extra trip. Happy Endings have always exclusively been handjobs at best.

Anything more than that and it turns into a Brothel from a parlor.

 

[HappyBivouac]

How would it be unethical from every angle?

That's why it's a question. I get the feeling some people take that stance.

 

[DrBo42]

so then all women are prostitutes

I didn't say that. But you could argue that there is an exchange of goods and services in a relationship. It's intended as a harmless joke.

 

[Plywood]

I don't know if I completely agree with this, sometimes it's not specifically sought after but offered.

In these cases, should one tip?

 

[Necromanti]

I didn't say that. But you could argue that there is an exchange of goods and services in a relationship. It's intended as a harmless joke.

At the end of the day...we're all prostitutes.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

I didn't say that. But you could argue that there is an exchange of goods and services in a relationship. It's intended as a harmless joke.

The most expensive sex you'll have is the one you think is free. j/k

 

[Black Mamba]

This reminds me of that Curb episode where Larry gets a handjob unknowingly from the masseuse.

 

[AMUSIX]

I think OP's friend's biggest concern should not be if her beau would seek out a prostitute, but if he would do it behind her back.

There is morally no difference between a guy going to a massage parlor and getting stroked off and seeing a hooker. The moral aspect is whether or not he's being unfaithful to his partner, or if he's open with her about it.


Oh, and if you're the type of person to hit erotic massage parlors, then, yes, you are very likely to also see prostitutes.

 

[Hermii]

I dont think there is any correlation, especially if its not planned. If I was getting a massage by some hot woman, and she asked me if I wanted a happy ending I would probably think why not at least if I was single (which I am). But I woudnt actively go out to seek it, or take the next step.

 

[BigDug13]

I guess the difficult part is distinguishing who is and isn't being forced into sex work.

That's not exactly difficult if you're actually looking for that sort of thing. Freelancers advertise online all the time. I would be wary of massage parlors as those girls may have been forced into it, but independent escorts are doing it on their own just to make cash.

 

[jorma]

it's only a separate topic if you can verify the masseuses are there of their own free will...

Thats a valid point, but if that really was the major concern with prostitution it would not be criminalised. There'd be licenses and controls and shit.

I don't see the big deal, personally. Especially not with the "happy ending" business. You massage the entire body for 30-60 minutes, and thats fine. Then you massage the dick for 5 minutes at the end so you'll get twice the money and you are a dirty whore and your customer is a woman hating enabler of slavery? It's a bit silly, really.

And for the record, i've never been to one. These massage parlours have only recently become popular where i live, but i don't see myself visiting one any time soon.

 

[sleepykyo]

There was a documentary or a book or something out about sex workers who assist disabled people or people who have debilitating social issues or people who for some reason are otherwise incapable of having sex. I guess that's the nursing aspect, being something of a sexual caregiver for some people.

I remember hearing it on NPR anyway. Can't find it on google, but there are a lot of websites about the subject.

Are you thinking of sexual surrogates?

 

[Ferulci]

I didn't say that. But you could argue that there is an exchange of goods and services in a relationship. It's intended as a harmless joke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWeUvVUVAk4

 

[BobbyRobby]

she should be concerned about the cheating aspect, rather than the fact it is with a prostitute.

the shaming of prostitutes and their clients is so dumb. it's their bodies, and their choice what they do with them. i can never imagine caring what two consenting adults do together sexually.

 

[akira28]

Are you thinking of sexual surrogates?

No, but I think I heard that on NPR as well...or was there a documentary or a book. Sexual surrogates are like sex therapists+ who help people learn how to be comfortable with sexual subjects and the physical act. This is a bit different.

I guess it would be unethical from every angle if I lied and said I was a priest? Or maybe if I was giving her insider trading tips?

 

[Dead Man]

You're paying to have a sex act performed on you... It's already a form of prostitution.

.

 

[DrBo42]

she should be concerned about the cheating aspect, rather than the fact it is with a prostitute.

the shaming of prostitutes and their clients is so dumb. it's their bodies, and their choice what they do with them. i can never imagine caring what two consenting adults do together sexually.

To further clarify the event in question occurred before they met. I think the main issue is that it's almost settle time in the age of the relationship/fear of the future.

 

[Monocle]

Maybe? It could be that someone who seeks out a happy ending is after exactly that and no more. Or they could regard it as a trial run to help them decide whether they want to meet with an actual prostitute. I don't think you can reasonably conclude that seeing a prostitute is on someone's mind if your only reason is that they thought about getting, or actually got, a happy ending. Of course, if the line we set is paying for a sex act, then a happy ending crosses it.

Wtf is happy ending?

What you have when the story ends before everybody dies.

 

[AMUSIX]

To further clarify the event in question occurred before they met. I think the main issue is that it's almost settle time in the age of the relationship/fear of the future.

Well, if all she's worried about is that he paid someone for a sexual act, then it's not a big deal. Heck, with his blessing, she should go do it herself, to take the mystique out of the situation for her.

The only reason there'd be a red flag would be if he was in a committed relationship at the time. If so, he might see the act as something other than cheating, since it's a business transaction.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Thats a valid point, but if that really was the major concern with prostitution it would not be criminalised. There'd be licenses and controls and shit.

I don't see the big deal, personally. Especially not with the "happy ending" business. You massage the entire body for 30-60 minutes, and thats fine. Then you massage the dick for 5 minutes at the end so you'll get twice the money and you are a dirty whore and your customer is a woman hating enabler of slavery? It's a bit silly, really.

Despite what you propose already being available in places like the Netherlands, Germany, and Spain, don't for a second think that sexual slavery isn't a problem there.

Germany is a source, transit, and destination country for women, children, and men subjected to trafficking in persons, specifically forced prostitution and forced labor. Ninety percent of identified victims of trafficking for commercial sexual exploitation came from Europe, including 28 percent from Germany, 20 percent from Romania, and 18 percent from Bulgaria. Non-European victims originated in Nigeria, other parts of Africa, Asia and the Western Hemisphere. Almost one-quarter of identified trafficking victims were children. The majority of identified sex trafficking victims have been exploited in bars, brothels, and apartments – approximately one third of identified sex trafficking victims reported that they had agreed initially to engage in prostitution.

Source: US State Department on Human Trafficking

 

[Flex187ad]

I live in Sydney and a few doors down from me there happens to be a massage place that offers "extras" or whatever you want to call it. These places are everywhere around Sydney and 99% of the time they will be full of girls of Asian appearance. I've never been to one but I know people that frequent these places and they tend to be the unfaithful types.

I've also met strippers that do house calls too... Easily over 300 an hour they earn? Australian dollars that is. My friend was organizing a Bucks night and he said the stripper cost around $450 for the show.

Some of these girls make insane amounts of money. So its definitely sad to see the girls from China, Thailand, Vietnam or wherever else most likely being forced into it. New Zealand recently banned International students from working in brothels to stop sex trafficking.

 

[Arjen]

Does gaf feel that prostitution is pretty much 100% unethical from every angle? Honest question. I'm conflicted about it.

Unethical? It's even legal here.
Now you argue, some woman are forced into it, which is something that's a problem and should be handled, but prostition itself is just a service from one person to another. Don't see what's unethical about it.

 

[zon]

That's why it's a question. I get the feeling some people take that stance.

And those people are batshit insane.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I don't know if I completely agree with this, sometimes it's not specifically sought after but offered.

But that's still prostitution right? I mean sought or offered either way its paying for a sex act.

Lets say i was parked at a street corner with the window down and a sex worker approached the car and offered sex for cash. I figure why not. In the eyes of the law iv still commuted criminal conduct in relation to prostitution. The only difference is she said "want a bj?" instead of me saying "£40 for a BJ?"

 

[ConfusingJazz]

But that's still prostitution right? I mean sought or offered either way its paying for a sex act.

Lets say i was parked at a street corner with the window down and a sex worker approached the car and offered sex for cash. I figure why not. In the eyes of the law iv still commuted criminal conduct in relation to prostitution. The only difference is she said "want a bj?" instead of me saying "£40 for a BJ?"

I believe the difference in those two statements is vastly different in the eyes of the law.

 

[Loofy]

I believe the difference in those two statements is vastly different in the eyes of the law.

Unless you record it, then shes an actress..

 

[AMUSIX]

I believe the difference in those two statements is vastly different in the eyes of the law.

no, no it is not. It's still prostitute and john, both are committing a crime in backwards lands where prostitution is illegal.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

I'd be offended, coz I hate hand and blowjobs.

 

[perfectchaos007]

After blamespace posted the rubmaps.com link in a topic that has escaped my memory last week, I started browsing some of the reviews for...educational purposes. Anyways, most of the services at these establishments are indeed provided by Asian workers for $50-$60/hr and the "Happy Ending" was a "tip" ( sorry anti-tip gaf ) of ~$50. So all together you're looking at ~$100 for a massage by an untrained masseuse and a hand job at the end. Seemed like a rip off.

Then I came across a review for another establishment that charged $180/hr. That made me do a double take. Reason for the hike? Well, it's either because the girls are Caucasian, or because there may not be any trafficking going on in the background ( I imagine trafficked women are paid very little if at all ). Well, I'll copy and paste the review and let you decide if it's worth the extra dough.

This is a hard place to find - there's no sign at all, and the door is usually locked (which means the girls are busy). One you find it and once you're inside, it's nicely kept, clean and tidy. The house fee seems high, $120 is for half an hour, $160 for 45 minutes, and $180 for a full hour. However, no tip is expected at all (but they will accept if offered). As an added bonus, every single girl that works here is absolutely hot!

Provider: Geniveve
Ethnicity:Caucasian
Age:18-24
Height:5'0''-5'5''
Breast: C

Geniveve was the only one there when I came in and I was stunned at how gorgeous she is. She went over the pricing, I decided to only do half an hour, gave her the fee and was escorted to the room. I disrobed, got on the table and waited for her to get back in. Geniveve came in and stripped her clothes off and gave a decent massage. Her massage skills aren't the best, but they're not bad either. It was good enough for what I needed that day. She has no problems with you touching her at all, and her skin is extremely soft. On the flip she continued to massage, focusing on upper body and working her way down. The whole time, I'm petting and caressing her. She has absolutely beautiful breasts and she placed them neatly in my face on many occasions. She went right for the HJ after a few minutes without hesitation or question. Geniveve has a very good technique and it felt absolutely incredible. If you look her up on BP, her photos aren't that great. She really is a hell of a lot better looking in person. She needs to get a professional photographer to take her pictures for her. Anyway, in addition to giving a decent massage and a great [Happy Ending], she's also very personable and friendly. She's just a lot of fun to be around. Especially when you're naked!

I'm inclined to believe a place like this, that's pricey, is more likely to be free of trafficked women. These girls may be misplaced strippers that give massages for tips instead of lap dances.

 

[jorma]

Despite what you propose already being available in places like the Netherlands, Germany, and Spain, don't for a second think that sexual slavery isn't a problem there.



Source: US State Department on Human Trafficking

Yeah. But if you want to visit a prostitute and you want to ascertain that you're not visiting a victim of trafficking, surely a licensed establishment would be your best bet? I'm sure there are plenty of establishments with a "good" reputation in Germany that you can visit, where you'll be sufficiently sure that you are visiting someone who does it because of a decision she made out of her own free will.

Point is, the legality of the trade means nothing when it comes to trafficking, and if trafficking is the sole concern, it should not be so casually conflated with prostitution in general.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

I'd be offended, coz I hate hand and blowjobs.

wut.

 

[Sylver]

Does gaf feel that prostitution is pretty much 100% unethical from every angle? Honest question. I'm conflicted about it.

I don't see the problem it's not illegal here, maybe cultural thing. I've paid for escorts sometimes, easy sex with catalogue models, with no worries, you pay only for time you want. Will do again, for sure. These days is pretty hard to find girls with just few sexual relations, and some of us cannot be with the girl we want, so what's the problem?.

 

[Messofanego]

Wtf is happy ending?

Happiness Ending "I Came"

 

[DrBo42]

Happiness Ending "I Came"

Pack it up folks.

 

[Bomber Bob]

It's pretty standard here in chienese massage parlors