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PC is finally the golden standard for gaming

That js false.
Pc now is bloated. It doesn't hold a candle, during that age.

Pc had studios, which made Pc exclusive games.

The witcher, elderscrolls, fallout were all Pc games, before they transitioned to consoles.

Traditional shooter games are dead, in favor or BR games.

The standard dropped so low now.
Elder scrolls sucks and always has. And like I teased earlier, if you think PC was better than consoles because of some point and click games, you're taking to the wrong gamer.

I am playing traditional shooters all the time on PC, don't know what you're on about. Yes, there's too much of a focus on multiplayer games as a service, I agree. But regular shooters are still made. Metro Exodus was not that long ago. I am looking forward to atomic heart.

Compare the first Witcher to Witcher 3 and tell me which is better.

A great strength of PC is being able to play your old games at higher resolution and fps every time you update your PC, so it doesn't get any worse just because you liked older games more. Guess what, I can still play games like FEAR, Witcher 2, or quake or whatever, better than ever.

I didn't give a shit about PC gaming until the 7th console generation. PC ports used to be terrible, and console exclusives reigned supreme.
 
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thankfully i dont have these problems

i dont even have that problem on ue4 games because i simply run them on dx11 mode with a simple switch lmao :messenger_grinning:

i dont know about terribly optimized ports either, never run a title that cannot run at a consistent 60+ frames on my 3.4 ghz ryzen 2700. for GPU side, i never seen any port that 6600xt (ps5 equivalent gpu) cannot match the performance of the ps5

elden ring had stutters but never game breaking on my end, only stuttered from time to time when i visited new locations. if it was so jarring, i wouldn't have played it for 130 hrs with full fun. but what do I know
Bro, a 6600xt costs about as much as PS5 and was release early this year...

Elden Ring crashes and stutters (still very playable, but I can't deny it happens), not ideal.

I play on PC for decades now, it isn't this flawless experience, it has it's advances and it has it's drawback, people are way too hyperbolic. What some guy with a PS5 is playing and some guy that spent 4x that on a top tier PC will play is virtually the same thing.

If you haven't had a bad experience yet, just wait, it's a matter of time until you run into something.
 
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yamaci17

Member
Bro a 6600xt costs about as much as PS5 and was release early this year...

Elden Ring crashes and stutters (still very playable, but I can't deny it happens), not ideal.
stutters still happen on all platforms for elden ring's case

6600xt costs 379 dollars. and then again, PC always cost more, that was the case even in the past. I don't get this argument. You get more bang for your buck regardless (through cheaper/free games on epic/steam and no need for online fee)

i can right now buy a 6600xt for msrp (380 bucks) on my local retailer. i dont know about your end.

if you move goalposts, i will have to ignore you. you said terribly optimized games, you said nothing about costs of PCs and PS5s. if a 6600xt can match ps5's performace, then it means games have normal optimization on PC and run exactly like the same way they do on consoles.

stick to your narrative

i will holler you when I get a bad experience, you can be sure
 
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stutters still happen on all platforms for elden ring's case

6600xt costs 379 dollars. and then again, PC always cost more, that was the case even in the past. I don't get this argument. You get more bang for your buck regardless (through cheaper/free games on epic/steam and no need for online fee)

i can right now buy a 6600xt for msrp (380 bucks) on my local retailer. i dont know about your end.

if you move goalposts, i will have to ignore you. you said terribly optimized games, you said nothing about costs of PCs and PS5s. if a 6600xt can match ps5's performace, then it means games have normal optimization on PC and run exactly like the same way they do on consoles.

stick to your narrative
Nope, there were times that you could build a much more powerful PC than a console for about the same price. This new reality where a mid-tier GPU costs $400 is relatively recent.

Please ignore me, do me that favor, I can't stand PC extremists. Moving goalposts? Goalposts of what? I play mostly on PC, I'm just not as deluded as some people here that think it's perfect or drastically better that it was in the past compared to what was available at the time. People can play on whatever they want, a PC, a PlayStation a Switch or even an Xbox if that's their thing.
 
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On a controller? Sure, maybe, arguably. On a mouse and keyboard? 60 vs 120 is night and day.
It's night and day on both. Your characters still animate the same when using a controller lol... You still need the smoother motion.

You still need faster input on a controller. I rarely use mouse and keyboard but always aim for 120fps these days, unless 120fps support is broken.
 
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yamaci17

Member
Nope, there were times that you could be a much more powerful PC than a console for about the same price. This new reality where a mid-tier GPU costs $400 is relatively recent.
well next year rx 6600xt will be rebranded as rx 7500xt and will be sold for 200-220 bucks. then you can have what you want i guess

yes you are moving goalposts, costs were never mentioned. i just pointed out that games are not terribly optimized. if they were, you would need a 6800xt to match ps5 performance. that's what I understand when you say "terribly optimized". then our definitions for terribly optimized is different.

if you can match console GPU performance with identical GPU on PC, then it is perfect. there were sometimes where this was not possible. you can take a look at old GPUs. nowadays desktop RDNA2s are even more capable than desktop RDNA2s. async support, full range of ACEs, proper dx 12.2 support, they have everything
 
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well next year rx 6600xt will be rebranded as rx 7500xt and will be sold for 200-220 bucks. then you can have what you want i guess

yes you are moving goalposts, costs were never mentioned. i just pointed out that games are not terribly optimized. if they were, you would need a 6800xt to match ps5 performance. that's what I understand when you say "terribly optimized". then our definitions for terribly optimized is different.

if you can match console GPU performance with identical GPU on PC, then it is perfect. there were sometimes where this was not possible. you can take a look at old GPUs. nowadays desktop RDNA2s are even more capable than desktop RDNA2s. async support, full range of ACEs, proper dx 12.2 support, they have everything
Just because a game is terribly optimized for console it doesn't mean it's well optimized on PC if it has poor performance there too. DX12 sucks ass and we are seeing more botched games than ever.

This is a really boring subject, specially since consoles these days are pretty much just PCs and all games with high budgets (the ones that take advantage of more powerful hardware) target consoles first above all. So you can spend all the money in the world and all you are going to get is better resolution (something that is more irrelevant than ever), better framerate (consoles are also getting games with 60fps and above these day, very decent), better effects (that are often indistinguishable) and some lame RT implementation that kills your performance. Wow! How wonderful.

All this boring talk about hardware when all that matters are games is a waste of everyone's time.
 
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stutters still happen on all platforms for elden ring's case
I think the PS4 version played on PS5 is pretty smooth?

There is the occasional bad PC port, like batman Arkham knight, but it's getting more and more rare. Not a valid criticism in favor of consoles when consoles get broken games at launch as well.
 

yamaci17

Member
Just because a game is terribly optimized for console it doesn't mean it's well optimized on PC if it has poor performance there too. DX12 sucks ass and we are seeing more botched games than ever.

competent devs can push good dx12 ports

cyberpunk has no stutter, streaming issues on pc and runs only on dx12. for all purposes, its PC version still runs better than its nextgen console versions. i've finished this game twice, once when it was released, even then it was mostly good. no crashes, no weird stutters, no problems. i dont know about you.

the medium. this one had dx12 stutters. it also had a dx11 switch when you launch the game that ran seamless. easy solution huh.

godfall. i've only played this for 8 hrs and rushed its campaign. it was actually a decent dx12 port that no problems or whatsoever

metro exodus enhanced edition - this one also ran like a butter on PC on dx12.

valhalla - surprisingly, it runs much much better than dx11 ports like odyssey and origins. no stutters, no CPU bound performance issues. mostly a perfect port.

gears 5 - speaks for itself. it is reknowned for its success of how a good dx12 title runs

back 4 blood - their devs also made a great job, this game also run great.

halo infinite - GPU bound performance is pretty bad, but its also pretty bad for Sx and Series S. outside of that? this dx12 port is more than decent. no stutters, no optimization issues, game just runs perfect. i've clocked a decent 150 hrs in its multiplayer and played its campaign for a 16 hrs with no interruptions, problems, or crashes.

hitman 3 - played all three games on a binge. perfect port. no problems or whatsoever. glacier engine just rocks on PC with dx12. also utilized VRS. no problems there as well

as you can see, my faith in dx12 is restored with such titles. when devs clearly give you an option to run dx11 when they know they couldn't make the dx12 mode proper.

you can say otherwise, you can google and present me other people having issues. this is what my experience looks like. for the past 2 years. before that, there were really botched dx12 ports. recent times? not so much. more and more devs are now more accustomed to dx12 and presents better ports that can match low API performance that consoles can push

these are all recent big AAA games that was pushed with dx12 only modes. they all run good and fine on my end. i can amplify the examples. either you're out of touch or there are some problems on your system that is caused by you
 
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competent devs can push good dx12 ports

cyberpunk has no stutter, streaming issues on pc and runs only on dx12. for all purposes, its PC version still runs better than its nextgen console versions. i've finished this game twice, once when it was released, even then it was mostly good. no crashes, no weird stutters, no problems. i dont know about you.

the medium. this one had dx12 stutters. it also had a dx11 switch when you launch the game that ran seamless. easy solution huh.

godfall. i've only played this for 8 hrs and rushed its campaign. it was actually a decent dx12 port that no problems or whatsoever

metro exodus enhanced edition - this one also ran like a butter on PC on dx12.

valhalla - surprisingly, it runs much much better than dx11 ports like odyssey and origins. no stutters, no CPU bound performance issues. mostly a perfect port.

gears 5 - speaks for itself. it is reknowned for its success of how a good dx12 title runs

back 4 blood - their devs also made a great job, this game also run great.

halo infinite - GPU bound performance is pretty bad, but its also pretty bad for Sx and Series S. outside of that? this dx12 port is more than decent. no stutters, no optimization issues, game just runs perfect. i've clocked a decent 150 hrs in its multiplayer and played its campaign for a 16 hrs with no interruptions, problems, or crashes.

hitman 3 - played all three games on a binge. perfect port. no problems or whatsoever. glacier engine just rocks on PC with dx12. also utilized VRS. no problems there as well

as you can see, my faith in dx12 is restored with such titles. when devs clearly give you an option to run dx11 when they know they couldn't make the dx12 mode proper.

you can say otherwise, you can google and present me other people having issues. this is what my experience looks like. for the past 2 years. before that, there were really botched dx12 ports. recent times? not so much. more and more devs are now more accustomed to dx12 and presents better ports that can match low API performance that consoles can push
Cyberpunk, The Medium, God Fall, Gears 5, Halo Infinite, Back 4 Blood... Jesus Christ... that's the sort of thing people spend so much money to play? Rough.

If those are the competent devs, we have a major problem and pretty much my point is made about the so called "Golden Age of PC".
 
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yamaci17

Member
Cyberpunk, The Medium, God Fall, Gears 5, Halo Infinite, Back 4 Blood... Jesus Christ... that's the sort of thing people spend so much money to play? Rough.

see, moving the goalposts again.

ignored. have a good day. your intentions are quite clear at this point.
 
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Nautilus

Member
They do have that problem because its controls still need to be generic enough to be able to run a large variety of games.
You don't see sucessful consoles coming with steering wheels or flight sticks as standard controls.
Well no, if you exclude Nintendo.Nintendo popularized touch controls, motion controls, invented the hybrid console.And even when it failed, it was fun, like the 3D in the 3DS.
 

Nautilus

Member
Except each and every single genre was invented and popular on computers.
Platformers became popular on PC?RPGs only became widely known on PC? Goldeney didn't set a fire on everyone's ass as a FPS?Adventure games first became known on PC?

Look, PC was important for a number of genres, such as FPS, RTS, strategy games, etc, but your comment is simply stupid, given that a lot of genres and famous IPs started on consoles.And you and everyone else knows it, so stop whatever this is.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
Well no, if you exclude Nintendo.Nintendo popularized touch controls, motion controls, invented the hybrid console.And even when it failed, it was fun, like the 3D in the 3DS.
All of which are still generic enough to be able to run multiple games.
As i said, no home console comes with steering wheels or other specialized devices as the standard controller, because they can't.
 
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Nautilus

Member
Just like vr games, these games target certain users.
You cant make them ditch out those users.
There is a reason why those tools exist. They are used for immersion.
But unless someone has a stroke of luck(or genious), none of these innovations become standard due to high barrier of entry(money-wise) and being relegated to a niche.

I'm not downplaying anyone who uses them, or companies that targets them, but it's pretty obvious how impactful an add-on is versus something that is built with the base product.
 

Kabelly

Member
I finally completed my long awaited build this past week with the purchase of a LG C1. Running it with a 3080 12GB. I rebought Sekiro after orginally playing it on the pS4 and I was almost crying last night at how beautiful it looks. It's completely locked at 60 at 4k when I was playing at 1080p 30fps until just last week. I've never seen anything so crisp. I need to try a game than can push past 60 because I've never seen a game running at that speed.

Edit: and the best part. Once I got everything set up I just simpy connected a Nintendo Switch pro controller i already owned via bluetooth and have been playing Sekiro with is since. Game plays amazingly. OLED is blowing me away. HDR is something I'm still getting used to but the sun always looks so nice.
 
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Nautilus

Member
All of which are still generic enough to be able to run multiple games.
As i said, no home console comes with steering wheels or other specialized devices as the standard controller, because they can't.
The Switch with joy-con controller, being a hybrid console, has generic controllers?

The 3DS with its stereotopic 3D was generic in how in presented the screen and its graphics?

The Wii had generic controllers?

The Wii U was also standard on how it approached innovation?

Being innovative doesn't mean you can't accomodate older input designs.Its just that you offer something new on top of it. And consoles, Nintendo in particular, is on the forefront of it.
 
Platformers became popular on PC?RPGs only became widely known on PC? Goldeney didn't set a fire on everyone's ass as a FPS?Adventure games first became known on PC?

Look, PC was important for a number of genres, such as FPS, RTS, strategy games, etc, but your comment is simply stupid, given that a lot of genres and famous IPs started on consoles.And you and everyone else knows it, so stop whatever this is.
GoldenEye is a really bad example, FPS was huge on PC way before it.

PC does have a history of innovation and creating new genres and sub-genres tailored for it, that is the biggest strength of PC not powerful hardware, or Steam or some other nonsense people get so attached too.

Most PC players are interested in playing MOBAs, tactical shooters, MMOs, games like PUBG or Escape from Tarkov, etc, not playing console games with higher resolution while dunking on consoles and feeling special because games runs slightly better on their PC they spent so much money on.
 
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Guilty_AI

Member
Platformers became popular on PC?RPGs only became widely known on PC? Goldeney didn't set a fire on everyone's ass as a FPS?Adventure games first became known on PC?

Look, PC was important for a number of genres, such as FPS, RTS, strategy games, etc, but your comment is simply stupid, given that a lot of genres and famous IPs started on consoles.And you and everyone else knows it, so stop whatever this is.
FPS? Mate, the genre not only started on PC but also became widely popular in it.
You mentioned one famous console fps that came much later, PC had dozens of equaly or more famous ones.

Looking at the past, many different devices were responsible for spreading and influencing gaming as a whole. PC wasn't responsible for everything (but it was for a lot), but consoles weren't either, i'd say they're about equal.
 
The psychological need for every PC gamer to self-insert themselves into a larger group, ascribe cult like qualities to the group (such as them being "chosen" ones, as if they were inherently selected by birth to be part of the superior group), and the need to feel that their gaming choice is not only better at every single possible aspect, but vocally make it known repeatedly to anyone and everyone (including themselves, which is the actual target of their external evangelism) that it is better at every possible aspect, is really baffling.

I kind of wish I was a cognitive researcher because I could probably publish a few wild papers on this.
Platformers became popular on PC?RPGs only became widely known on PC? Goldeney didn't set a fire on everyone's ass as a FPS?Adventure games first became known on PC?

Look, PC was important for a number of genres, such as FPS, RTS, strategy games, etc, but your comment is simply stupid, given that a lot of genres and famous IPs started on consoles.And you and everyone else knows it, so stop whatever this is.
It also ignores the fact that id, perhaps one of if not THE most important PC devs to popularize PC gaming, basically exists solely because they loved Mario 3 so much (a poopy console game) that they wanted to make a PC port of it, and had to go out of their way to develop a technique for screen scrolling because consoles easily supported it and PCs didn't at the time.

Again, I don't understand why there is this psychological need to ensure that literally every single aspect of PC gaming is superior. Consoles can't do anything better. Consoles can't be a positive influence on gaming. PC is the best and will be defended at all costs even if it takes a thousand posts to make sure it is known.

Most PC players are interested in playing MOBAs, tactical shooters, MMOs, PUBG, etc, not playing console games with higher resolution while dunking on consoles and feeling special because games runs slightly better on their PC they spent so money on.
This entire thread, and the other 10,000 ones like it, disagree.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
The Switch with joy-con controller, being a hybrid console, has generic controllers?

yes

The 3DS with its stereotopic 3D was generic in how in presented the screen and its graphics?
considering it barely affected the games, yes.

The Wii had generic controllers?
no, but it still wasn't specialized controller, nor it invented motion controls

The Wii U was also standard on how it approached innovation?
yes

Being innovative doesn't mean you can't accomodate older input designs.Its just that you offer something new on top of it. And consoles, Nintendo in particular, is on the forefront of it.
If thats what you're framing as innovation, PC also innovate all the time.
 

manfestival

Member
PC has always been the golden standard. Been a part of the master race for over 20 years. Took a PC gamer to introduce Starcraft to me for me to understand this. Then I got so into it back in like 2000 that I began to believe.
 

Nautilus

Member
GoldenEye is a really bad example, FPS was huge on PC way before it.

PC does have a history of innovation and creating new genres and sub-genres tailored for it, that is the biggest strength of PC not powerful hardware, or Steam or some other nonsense people get so attached too.

Most PC players are interested in playing MOBAs, tactical shooters, MMOs, games like PUBG or Escape from Tarkov, etc, not playing console games with higher resolution while dunking on consoles and feeling special because games runs slightly better on their PC they spent so money on.
PC does have a history of innovation in creating new genres, I just don't agree to the extent that you have said that's all.

And most PC players are interested in... everything really.Dark Souls is as popular on PC as is on consoles.Indies sell as well on Steam as it does on Switch. And yeah, people game on PC also because it can get better performance on games that are usually seen as "console" games(a distinction that is, by all metrics, stupid nowadays, given how much PC and consoles have grown in terms of what they can do).

For better or for worse, there are barely a distinction nowadays between playing on PC and consoles that aren't made by Nintendo.
 

Nautilus

Member

yes


considering it barely affected the games, yes.


no, but it still wasn't specialized controller, nor it invented motion controls


yes


If thats what you're framing as innovation, PC also innovate all the time.
PC does innovate all the time, just in different areas.

Like Nintendo for example.You seem to be blind or just in denial, but it innovated in all the consoles I just mentioned, wether you like it or not.The Switch being a hybrid console with detachable controllers was a stroke of genious.The Wii revolutionized the gaming space with the invention and making motion controls popular.And even when they get it wrong, its always fun, be it the 3D display of the 3DS, or the tablet controler of the Wii U.
 
PC does have a history of innovation in creating new genres, I just don't agree to the extent that you have said that's all.

And most PC players are interested in... everything really.Dark Souls is as popular on PC as is on consoles.Indies sell as well on Steam as it does on Switch. And yeah, people game on PC also because it can get better performance on games that are usually seen as "console" games(a distinction that is, by all metrics, stupid nowadays, given how much PC and consoles have grown in terms of what they can do).

For better or for worse, there are barely a distinction nowadays between playing on PC and consoles that aren't made by Nintendo.
That doesn't make any sense and only shows how your view of PC is so narrow, there is extreme variety in games that are popular on PC and not popular or not even present on consoles, much more then there is between a Nintendo console and a Sony console.

A PC is a lot more than a more powerful console (it can even be weaker than a current gen console and most active gaming PCs are) and that is what gets lost when people get so obsessed with hardware, resolution and counting frame rates.
 
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DukeNukem00

Banned
Platformers became popular on PC?RPGs only became widely known on PC? Goldeney didn't set a fire on everyone's ass as a FPS?Adventure games first became known on PC?

Look, PC was important for a number of genres, such as FPS, RTS, strategy games, etc, but your comment is simply stupid, given that a lot of genres and famous IPs started on consoles.And you and everyone else knows it, so stop whatever this is.

Did you see me mention platformers anywhere ? Why are you talking about "widely known" ? Or Goldeneye ? Yes, adventure games were invented on PC. They were even called point n click adventures. Did you heard about Sierra or Lucas Arts ? In the 80s ? RPG's were invented on PC, in the 70s and Ultima and Wizardry and Might and Magic in the 80s are the blueprints for every computer and console rpg in existence. Not only that, the concept of choice and consequence was invented in 1985 in Ultima 4.

Why are you mentioning Goldeneye to my claim that computers invented most of the genres we play today ? What is Goldeneye, a game that came out after a near decade since the invention of the fps genre on PC has to do with anything ?
 

Guilty_AI

Member
PC does innovate all the time, just in different areas.

Like Nintendo for example.You seem to be blind or just in denial, but it innovated in all the consoles I just mentioned, wether you like it or not.The Switch being a hybrid console with detachable controllers was a stroke of genious.The Wii revolutionized the gaming space with the invention and making motion controls popular.And even when they get it wrong, its always fun, be it the 3D display of the 3DS, or the tablet controler of the Wii U.
point is, its always small steps, steps that all platforms take usually in equal measure. You're going as far as downplaying the influence pc had in both creating and spreading genres like RTS and FPS, way, way more than consoles. Theres no real "fore-runner" here.
 
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ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
I would say that PC being the golden standard here has really benefited everyone. Sony and Microsoft including PC in their long term strategy to lay the foundation is smart, considering dedicated home console is slated to be obsoleted: Nintendo has shifted to hybrid portable console while Microsoft is going towards subscription route. They wouldn't want to get caught getting left behind.
 
You think a thread is in any way representative of anything?
Well threads are comprised of posts made by humans, so... Yes? You can replace forum threads with Tweets or Facebook posts or YouTube comments or anything else and it doesn't really change anything.

Find any medium of discussion you like related to Sony PC ports and it would be impossible to think otherwise.
 

InfiniteCombo

Gold Member
This whole thing is silly from both sides:

1. The OP deciding he needs to shout from the mountaintops that PC is the "golden standard." Whole thing is cringe as hell. I certainly think PC is the best platform for gaming, and it's not even close; but I don't feel the need to remind people of that opinion or to try to get validation for it. I just... play the games.

2. The console warriors being super salty. No one is stopping you from playing your consoles. But the fact remains that PC is vastly superior in objectively measurable ways.
 

Nautilus

Member
That doesn't make any sense and only shows how your view of PC is so narrow, there is extreme variety in games that are popular on PC and not popular or not even present on consoles, much more then there is between a Nintendo console and a Sony console.

A PC is a lot more than a more powerful console (it can even be weaker than a current gen console and most active gaming PCs are) and that is what gets lost when people get so obsessed with hardware, resolution and counting frame rates.
And what games that, other than RTS and maybe some strategy games, that consoles don't have?

I think its your view of console gaming that is narrow.On how capable it is and how important it was and will be.

And honestly, that wasn't even what I was talking about.It was about how consoles managed to innovate in terms of hardware compared to PC, not software.
 
Well threads are comprised of posts made by humans, so... Yes? You can replace forum threads with Tweets or Facebook posts or YouTube comments or anything else and it doesn't really change anything.

Find any medium of discussion you like related to Sony PC ports and it would be impossible to think otherwise.
I don't even know what you are talking about. Sony ports aren't even that successful on PC.

Just look at the most played games on Steam, it's pretty obvious how the majority of people playing on PC have different interests than people playing on consoles. That's a good thing not a bad thing, it's nice to have different things that cater to different people.

And what games that, other than RTS and maybe some strategy games, that consoles don't have?

I think its your view of console gaming that is narrow.On how capable it is and how important it was and will be.

And honestly, that wasn't even what I was talking about.It was about how consoles managed to innovate in terms of hardware compared to PC, not software.
I can't even follow what you are trying to say. PC has tons of innovations in hardware due to how diverse and iterative the products are. Not to mention that consoles are pretty much just PCs and have been for a good while (nothing wrong with that).

I like both consoles and PC, I have no dog in this fight, I think this is all silly, PC isn't objectively superior and likely never will be and the same goes for consoles.
 
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Nautilus

Member
Did you see me mention platformers anywhere ? Why are you talking about "widely known" ? Or Goldeneye ? Yes, adventure games were invented on PC. They were even called point n click adventures. Did you heard about Sierra or Lucas Arts ? In the 80s ? RPG's were invented on PC, in the 70s and Ultima and Wizardry and Might and Magic in the 80s are the blueprints for every computer and console rpg in existence. Not only that, the concept of choice and consequence was invented in 1985 in Ultima 4.

Why are you mentioning Goldeneye to my claim that computers invented most of the genres we play today ? What is Goldeneye, a game that came out after a near decade since the invention of the fps genre on PC has to do with anything ?
Have you ever played Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest?The RPGs that are the very foundation of genre?They all came from consoles, not PC.

If you were paying attention, I mentioned about platformers because of your laughable claim of PCs inventing most genres, which is simply wrong. Action adventure games, platformers, RPGs, Souls games, Third person shooters, looter games, etc etc.All were either invented or popularized on consoles.

Not only it invented genres, but also popularized aspects of it.Take Goldeney for example.The game in itself was innovative and a big step forward for the FPS genre, but its multiplayer mode is what made multiplayer in shooter games actually popular.

There too many things to list in a single post about how consoles changed gaming.
 

Clear

Gold Member
The golden age of PC is the age when you are playing PC games.


I personally liked it when there were RTS games everywhere.

Kinda agree. Can't think of too many PC-only titles these days that demand my interest the way that things like the C&C/Red Alert did back in the day. LAN parties were such fun!
 

Nautilus

Member
point is, its always small steps, steps that all platforms take usually in equal measure. You're going as far as downplaying the influence pc had in both creating and spreading genres like RTS and FPS, way, way more than consoles. Theres no real "fore-runner" here.
Nintendo took a small step with the Wii?The 64 and PS1 took a "small step" when they introduced the analog stick? Or when the Switch invented the hybrid console, was that also a small step?

PC had its hands in a lot of things, I'm not denying that. Its you who are downplaying how influential consoles was for gaming as a whole.
 

DukeNukem00

Banned
Have you ever played Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest?The RPGs that are the very foundation of genre?They all came from consoles, not PC.

If you were paying attention, I mentioned about platformers because of your laughable claim of PCs inventing most genres, which is simply wrong. Action adventure games, platformers, RPGs, Souls games, Third person shooters, looter games, etc etc.All were either invented or popularized on consoles.

Not only it invented genres, but also popularized aspects of it.Take Goldeney for example.The game in itself was innovative and a big step forward for the FPS genre, but its multiplayer mode is what made multiplayer in shooter games actually popular.

There too many things to list in a single post about how consoles changed gaming.

Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy and Zelda are inspired by Ultima and Wizardry. The entirety of the RPG genre, of any kind, on any platform is a direct descendant from these 2 pc games. My claim that PC invented most genres is accurate, i didnt say everything, i said nearly everything. Platformers are of course excluded. You keep mentioaning action and rpg's over and over will not suddenly make it true, you know. And you keep using the word "popularized". Is that your underhanded way of trying to hamfist a genre invented on PC as only becoming relevant when it finally came out on consoles ?

The fact that you think Goldeneye popularized multiplayer when Doom itself created the deathmatch concept is beyond hilarious. And when Quake was doing this in 1996:

 

Nautilus

Member
I don't even know what you are talking about. Sony ports aren't even that successful on PC.

Just look at the most played games on Steam, it's pretty obvious how the majority of people playing on PC have different interests than people playing on consoles. That's a good thing not a bad thing, it's nice to have different things that cater to different people.


I can't even follow what you are trying to say. PC has tons of innovations in hardware due to how diverse and iterative the products are. Not to mention that consoles are pretty much just PCs and have been for a good while (nothing wrong with that).

I like both consoles and PC, I have no dog in this fight, I think this is all silly, PC isn't objectively superior and likely never will be and the same goes for consoles.
Honest question: Outside of buying different add-ons, because even consoles have that,(and even then, I think you can argue that only VR has really innovated the space, and that isn't part of a PC, tecnically speaking), in what way has PC innovated in terms of how you can interact with it, on how you control it, in the last 30 years?
 

Novacain

Member
I did not enjoy your TED talk.

PCs have always been the gold standard for top end gaming, but it's cool if prices are coming down to drop the barrier a little for people who were priced out.
 
N Novacain I think it's still cool if you have a mid-range PC. A GTX 1060 can play most games on the market.

Goldeney for example.The game in itself was innovative and a big step forward for the FPS genre, but its multiplayer mode is what made multiplayer in shooter games actually popular.
Ever heard of DOOM and Quake?

Stop posting dude, you just outed yourself as someone who doesn't know fuck about the matter.

Go play DOOM and Quake btw, they still hold up perfectly today.
 
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Nautilus

Member
Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy and Zelda are inspired by Ultima and Wizardry. The entirety of the RPG genre, of any kind, on any platform is a direct descendant from these 2 pc games. My claim that PC invented most genres is accurate, i didnt say everything, i said nearly everything. Platformers are of course excluded. You keep mentioaning action and rpg's over and over will not suddenly make it true, you know. And you keep using the word "popularized". Is that your underhanded way of trying to hamfist a genre invented on PC as only becoming relevant when it finally came out on consoles ?

The fact that you think Goldeneye popularized multiplayer when Doom itself created the deathmatch concept is beyond hilarious. And when Quake was doing this in 1996:

And Ultima Wizardry were inspired by DnD and board in general, which if you wanna be technical about it, is where RPGs really were invented.

So therein lies my point: Inventing something is not easy, but its not hard.What is truly remarkable and impressive is sticking the landing. How much influence the things that Ultima and Wizardry did have nowadays, versus games that actually did it well, and its effects can be felt nowadays, like FF and DQ with the level up system, or Zelda and well, everything it did?

So yeah, making it popular is just as important as creating and depending on the case, I personally think even more important.Its like the difference between comming up with a concept and executing it: If you look at history books, things we have nowadays were probably "invented" far early than we realize, but we only really remember the products that were well executed.

And thats the case with the RPG example that I gave.Its no wonder most if not all, consider both FF and DQ as the titles that birthed the genre.Same thing for Goldeney, to an (faaaar) inferior extent.Yeah, maybe it wasnt all that innovative with multiplayer in its own, but it invented, or at least popularized split screen, which made multiplayer games, in an age were internet was an infant, actually feasible without hooking up several PCs to play through LAN connection.
 
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Nautilus

Member
N Novacain I think it's still cool if you have a mid-range PC. A GTX 1060 can play most games on the market.


Ever heard of DOOM and Quake?

Stop posting dude, you just outed yourself as someone who doesn't know fuck about the matter.

Go play DOOM and Quake btw, they still hold up perfectly today.
I did, and they are fun, but my point still stands.

I do recommend playing Goldeneye too.Game has aged, but still holds up incredibly well today.
 
Honest question: Outside of buying different add-ons, because even consoles have that,(and even then, I think you can argue that only VR has really innovated the space, and that isn't part of a PC, tecnically speaking), in what way has PC innovated in terms of how you can interact with it, on how you control it, in the last 30 years?
Yours point is that PC hasn't innovated in gamepads? Yea I guess, you can just use a DualSense these days (too bad most devs don't bother giving proper support). Mouse and keyboard works great for many games, the basic set up already does the job really well, no point in reinventing the wheel but you can get all fancy with different mouse and keyboards if you want.

As for gamepads, there was hardly that much innovation aside from refinement since the original DualShock, the difference between an Xbox and PS controller is minimal (Xbox just lack features the DualSense has and there are slight difference in placement and ergonomics). You can chose either one or whatever other controller you want when playing on PC.

VR is what took motion control to the next level and it started on PC, it's pretty much the only space where motion controls are still relevant.

For the hardware itself, beyond just inputs, almost anything imaginable has been tried on PC at some point. It's the nature of it, you have multiple manufacturers trying to one up each other.
 
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kingfey

Banned
But unless someone has a stroke of luck(or genious), none of these innovations become standard due to high barrier of entry(money-wise) and being relegated to a niche.

I'm not downplaying anyone who uses them, or companies that targets them, but it's pretty obvious how impactful an add-on is versus something that is built with the base product.
Psvr is a niche product, same for HTC vive.
They are targeted at people who has the money to spare.
Its a luxury product.
Plus they are used for certain games. Not every game uses these tools.
 

Topher

Gold Member
And what games that, other than RTS and maybe some strategy games, that consoles don't have?

There are quite a few. If you look at steam charts of what PC gamers are playing:


CS:GO, Dota 2, Naraka: Bladepoint, Dread Hunger are top 10 games that are not on current consoles. There are plenty more beyond that.

Honest question: Outside of buying different add-ons, because even consoles have that,(and even then, I think you can argue that only VR has really innovated the space, and that isn't part of a PC, tecnically speaking), in what way has PC innovated in terms of how you can interact with it, on how you control it, in the last 30 years?

I believe head tracking was first developed for FPS games on PC.
 
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