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People saying Breath of The Wild has bad combat, are not creative enough.

Rykan

Member
Zelda had the perfect combat for the type of game it was, just like games like Alundra and even that prince of persia game you have on your picture where you can't even die. It's the basic hack n slash for action adventure games. The fact that botw has some many type of weapons and other ways to combat other than using weapons is amazing considering the last 18 zelda games all you had was like 3 swords per game.
Zelda's combat is what it is because it's a game made for kids. They've always been made for kids first. It's why the combat in any zelda game is a kiddy pool when compared to something like GoW 2018. BotW has a lot of weapons but thats because BotW is wide, not deep. Every weapon has an extremely limted amount of moveset and the game never demands that you become proficient with any of it.
 

Ezquimacore

Member
Zelda's combat is what it is because it's a game made for kids. They've always been made for kids first. It's why the combat in any zelda game is a kiddy pool when compared to something like GoW 2018. BotW has a lot of weapons but thats because BotW is wide, not deep. Every weapon has an extremely limted amount of moveset and the game never demands that you become proficient with any of it.
botw is definitely the right path and not just for kids considering every enemy can one hit kill you until late on the game, you need to learn to parry and dodge too. Also if GOW 2018 is the definition of depth idk what to tell you, when even GOW 3 has better combat than that dark souls wanna be.
 

01011001

Gold Member
Zelda's combat is what it is because it's a game made for kids. They've always been made for kids first. It's why the combat in any zelda game is a kiddy pool when compared to something like GoW 2018. BotW has a lot of weapons but thats because BotW is wide, not deep. Every weapon has an extremely limted amount of moveset and the game never demands that you become proficient with any of it.

God of War 2018 also doesn't demand you to go any deeper with the combat or become proficient in it. almost every combo you can do is mostly useless and only for show.

so I fail to see how it is different than Zelda. on normal in GoW you can literally win most of the normal fights by playing it like a shooter, and only killing enemies by throwing your ax. I know because I tried for fun on a friend's save who played it on normal.

and on harder difficulties, including the "Give me GOW" mode you also don't need to use ANYTHING other than dodge and 1 basic combo to get through the entire game. (color coded enemies are an exception, but that is bad design in general and something DmC has been rightfully criticized for before GoW implemented the same crap, and it was thankfully toned down a lot in the Definitive Edition of that game)
 

hemo memo

Gold Member
That’s like saying RE6 has the best gunplay because you can do all those crazy flips and slides. On a basic level, BotW combat sucks. Also most items you get are mostly for puzzles.

The game is for kids. Same for Pokemon. It is like saying Pokemon battle system is complex sighting the competitive multiplayer. Guess what? That’s not how the majority of people play those games.
 

Rykan

Member
botw is definitely the right path and not just for kids considering every enemy can one hit kill you until late on the game, you need to learn to parry and dodge too. Also if GOW 2018 is the definition of depth idk what to tell you, when even GOW 3 has better combat than that dark souls wanna be.
I never said its just for kids. What I've said is that the game is made for kids, just like every Nintendo Game is made for kids. Wow, you need to parry and dodge!? Thats some mad depth right there!

LOL GoW a dark souls wannabe? Yea maybe if it removes all of its movesets and stripped it down to just "heavy attack and light attack" it would be like Dark Souls.
God of War 2018 also doesn't demand you to go any deeper with the combat or become proficient in it. almost every combo you can do is mostly useless and only for show.

so I fail to see how it is different than Zelda. on normal in GoW you can literally win most of the normal fights by playing it like a shooter, and only killing enemies by throwing your ax. I know because I tried for fun on a friend's save who played it on normal.

and on harder difficulties, including the "Give me GOW" mode you also don't need to use ANYTHING other than dodge and 1 basic combo to get through the entire game. (color coded enemies are an exception, but that is bad design in general and something DmC has been rightfully criticized for before GoW implemented the same crap, and it was thankfully toned down a lot in the Definitive Edition of that game)
If you're using only 1 basic combo, you're playing suboptimally. Intentionally using suboptimal methods to prove a point isn't a very good argument to begin with.
 

arvfab

Member
Thank you TO for proving to me that yes, BotW can be indeed enjoyable: when watching GIFs. Most fun I ever had with it.
 
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01011001

Gold Member
If you're using only 1 basic combo, you're playing suboptimally. Intentionally using suboptimal methods to prove a point isn't a very good argument to begin with.

not really. the main combo with the Axe, or doing an R2 hit first to lift enemies into the air and then spamming R1 is plenty enough for almost every enemy type in the game.
 

Rykan

Member
not really. the main combo with the Axe, or doing an R2 hit first to lift enemies into the air and then spamming R1 is plenty enough for almost every enemy type in the game.
But it's not the most optimal way to play. That's the whole point. In fact, if you're only using the Axe and don't weave the chains into your combo, you're already playing incredibly suboptimally.
 
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daveonezero

Member
If Nintendo fleshes out weapon move sets. Adds more modifiers . Adds moves to shields. Integrates powers more. And continues to flesh out the elements

Than BOTW2 could rival even souls games.

The way they do bullet time and critical hits is a good place to start.
 

UnNamed

18+ Member
BotW's combat system is very creative.

The only problem is you don't have any boundaries which is bad: you can defeat an anemy in lot of ways, but you'll never be forced to be creative, so most of the time, button smashing is the best approach.

From Ocarina and sequels, you have enemies you can defeat using specific approach, for example those who have a shield you need to hit them from the back, or using the motion control to counter attack.

BotW have few (or maybe none, I don't re. ember) enemies that force you to use the many approach using physics
 
I got both twilight princess and wind waker hd versions and realised how much better than botw. Botw is like they took the soul out of zelda.
 

Ezquimacore

Member
I'm a creative guy. I paint, I draw, I write, I'm a musician, I build shit. The list is long, the creative hobbies endless.

I also found botw combat to be dreadfully dull.

Find a better argument.
I think you're not that creative, maybe that's why you're here on this forum instead of being famous for all the stuff you say you do.
 
I think you're not that creative, maybe that's why you're here on this forum instead of being famous for all the stuff you say you do.
 

Utherellus

Member
The photos you posted are more akin to it having a good interconnected physics system...

.... that is making gameplay very fun, creative and engaging.


What I'm seeing is, you are bending the fact around the point, emphasizing physics role in the game, as if it does not deliver fun gameplay.
 
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Kimahri

Member
I think you're not that creative, maybe that's why you're here on this forum instead of being famous for all the stuff you say you do.

Wow, that's like maybe the weakest counter argument I've seen in a long time.

Displays a severe lack of, what's the word... oh right! Creativity.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
You can do all sort of shit to kill some enemies with the physic system and it is indeed cool.

But the core combat is uber basic and acceptable at best, you have the basic samey combo and the counter flurry, and you kill 95% of enemies with that, nobody waste 5 min to kill a single enemy by picking a piece of metal with the magnet or throwind a metal weapon during a thunderstorm you do that one time for the novelty, then just return to smash and slice like every other game in existence because it is just way faster and easier, and the smash and slice is barely ok.

The game doesn't even has a roll\evade button if you are not using the lock on, something that is present in every fucking action game...

Darksiders 1, a ps3 zelda type of game crap all over botw combat wise, and lets not even talk about darksiders 2...

Hopefully nintendo is gonna waste more than 5 min for the core combat mechanics of botw sequel this time...physic system can only get you that far when it comes to pure combat mechanics\enjoyment.

The whole topic has a strong marty mcfly metroid dread vibe :lollipop_squinting:

In Just cause 4 you can do 50x times the physic stuff you do in botw but have you ever heard ANYONE talking about how good the combat in just cause is?? And you can do CRAZY shit in that game that make botw blush.
 
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cireza

Member
After playing 100 hours of Elden Ring, which has better combat than botw (that's not fair because almost every souls game has better combat than anything else) I understood why people say botw's combat is bad. Because the combat on BOTW is as good as your creativity

While the "slash, slash, slash" of BOTW is not anything from other world and even lame with the weapons degrading

<--------------that's not how you play botw.

1. Anything is a weapon, even your enemies

2. Use the elements, they are there for a reason




3. Use stasis, it's there for a reason





4. Use Magnesis, it's there for a reason




5. Use the cuccos, they are there for a reason




6. Use your shield, it's there for a reason.

7. the horse combat is trash, so use the master cycle




And I can be here the whole night giving you examples, but you get my point. The freedom on breath of the wild is not limited to the overwold, but it goes beyond and gives you every choice to be awesome or to be lame.

Still no point in fighting all of these enemies. You can ignore them, there is nothing to gain from fighting them.
 

Mato

Member
I love Zelda and enjoyed my time with BOTW, but being creative shouldn't be a prerequisite to enjoy the combat in an adventure game. It would make perhaps sense if it was more rewarding or more efficient to be creative, but it's not. As a long time Zelda fan, Elden Ring is scratching that wanderlust/adventure itch more effectively.
 

Lethal01

Member
Still no point in fighting all of these enemies. You can ignore them, there is nothing to gain from fighting them.

You get monster parts that you can sell for Clothes, arrows, upgrades and craft potions that can be very useful. The only think you lose is a weapon that will be replaced by the end of the fight..
 

Fuchalmania

Member
OP, you need to dial it back a bit. You're being really aggressive to people and making personal attacks. All because they disagree with you about a game.

Be passionate about the game. Not passionate about winning an argument.
 
Wow, that's like maybe the weakest counter argument I've seen in a long time.

Displays a severe lack of, what's the word... oh right! Creativity.
Just think of it as him not being or knowing anyone creative since they're obviously not famous with him saying this on this forum. 🤔
 

CuNi

Member
This is a cope thread, isn't it?

Botw is a great game, imho not as good as some critics say but that's subjective and no mental gymnastics like "if you don't like it you're just not creative enough" will make it better.
 

Kimahri

Member
Just think of it as him not being or knowing anyone creative since they're obviously not famous with him saying this on this forum. 🤔
Hard not to. Also, equating creativity with being famous is a bit out there, in addition to the somewhat odd omittance of the well known fact that famous people tend to savor their anonymity wherever they can.
 

01011001

Gold Member
But it's not the most optimal way to play. That's the whole point. In fact, if you're only using the Axe and don't weave the chains into your combo, you're already playing incredibly suboptimally.

first of all, it is an easy way to fight almost every enemy type, secondly you don't get the chains until about half way into the game.

and also, simply doing basic attacks in BotW is technically also suboptimal. it is an easy way to get through the game but it's not optimal.

same with God of War. you can totally do that 1 combo over and over and only that 1 and get easily through the game. if a fight takes 5 to 10 seconds longer is not really an issue for most players.

Guessing you play DMC the same way?

I would, but DMC has something that GoW doesn't have... a compelling ranking system that motivates you to use your abilities more creatively.

also DMC usually mixes in enemies that aren't easily beatable with the easier combos... God of War doesn't really have enemies that give you issues with said R2>R1>R1>R1>R1 combo.
 
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Rykan

Member
first of all, it is an easy way to fight almost every enemy type, secondly you don't get the chains until about half way into the game.

and also, simply doing basic attacks in BotW is technically also suboptimal. it is an easy way to get through the game but it's not optimal.

same with God of War. you can totally do that 1 combo over and over and only that 1 and get easily through the game. if a fight takes 5 to 10 seconds longer is not really an issue for most players.
This is just a faily desperate attempt to make it seem as if GoW's combat is the same as BOTW. It isn't. If you just use the basic combo, You will take far, far longer than just "5/10" seconds because you'll be unable to lock up your enemies with just that combo, allowing them to retaliate which forces you to be defensive. It's completely suboptimal.

Doing basic mechanics in BOTW IS the most optimal and fastest way in the majority of cases.
 
Hard not to. Also, equating creativity with being famous is a bit out there, in addition to the somewhat odd omittance of the well known fact that famous people tend to savor their anonymity wherever they can.
Obviously, but I just wanted to highlight how absurd his assertion was while trying to say how "creative" he was in the game.
 
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I would, but DMC has something that GoW doesn't have... a compelling ranking system that motivates you to use your abilities more creatively.

also DMC usually mixes in enemies that aren't easily beatable with the easier combos... God of War doesn't really have enemies that give you issues with said R2>R1>R1>R1>R1 combo.
So just adding a ranking system to God of War would get you to explore its combat system? DMC does have a greater variety of enemies than GOW, but I can use the base combo to grind out a win in both. Plus, how are you doing the plain axe combo with ranged enemies?
 

01011001

Gold Member
This is just a faily desperate attempt to make it seem as if GoW's combat is the same as BOTW. It isn't. If you just use the basic combo, You will take far, far longer than just "5/10" seconds because you'll be unable to lock up your enemies with just that combo, allowing them to retaliate which forces you to be defensive. It's completely suboptimal.

Doing basic mechanics in BOTW IS the most optimal and fastest way in the majority of cases.

it is also the fastest way in God of War. most standard mobs can easily be juggled all the way to the end.

try fighting a bigger enemy in Zelda by only using standard attacks. no trash mob, but an actually bigger enemy.

it's the same thing. you can't use your standard attacks and think it's optimal unless it's a trash mob. same as in God of War.
and then we can also add enemy masses. at which point it becomes ridiculously unoptimal to simply use normal attacks in Zelda.
usually a combination of bombs, arrows and sword attacks is needed to optimally fight enemy crowds.
some enemies you have to parry to optimally defeat too. and not just slightly faster but ~10x faster
 
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01011001

Gold Member
So just adding a ranking system to God of War would get you to explore its combat system? DMC does have a greater variety of enemies than GOW, but I can use the base combo to grind out a win in both. Plus, how are you doing the plain axe combo with ranged enemies?

there are exceptions to this, I said most enemies not all.

and no, it's also that the fighting system in DMC is simply more fun due to better animations and a cameraman that isn't giving me a colonoscopy with his lens
 
it is also the fastest way in God of War. most standard mobs can easily be juggled all the way to the end.

try fighting a bigger enemy in Zelda by only using standard attacks. no trash mob, but an actually bigger enemy.

it's the same thing. you can't use your standard attacks and think it's optimal unless it's a trash mob. same as in God of War.
and then we can also add enemy masses. at which point it becomes ridiculously unoptimal to simply use normal attacks in Zelda.
usually a combination of bombs, arrows and sword attacks is needed to optimally fight enemy crowds.
some enemies you have to parry to optimally defeat too. and not just slightly faster but ~10x faster
 

Arthimura

Member
Zelda fans are getting really defensive now in the last few weeks.

I believe it's because Horizon Forbidden West and mainly Elden Ring was released, and they're feeling Elden Ring puts the reputation of BOTW in danger. Even more, they are afraid BOTW sequel won't get the same praise the first one got, because now people are more critical towards combat and open-world games in general.
 
give me an example of a trash mob you can't infinitely juggle? even some of the bigger ones you can, hell even some mini bosses lol.

might not be optimal, but it's easy and works just fine
I'd say there isn't a game in existence that a trash mob can be infinitely juggled considering they have a health limit, but the valkaries(sp) come to mind.
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
Zelda fans are getting really defensive now in the last few weeks.

I believe it's because Horizon Forbidden West and mainly Elden Ring was released, and they're feeling Elden Ring puts the reputation of BOTW in danger. Even more, they are afraid BOTW sequel won't get the same praise the first one got, because now people are more critical towards combat and open-world games in general.

I mean this entire thread is essentially saying that BotW is the best game ever made because its a worse Just Cause.

Man people who rate Just Cause low are just not creative enough, same with Far Cry 2... whys Breath of the Wild unique again? I mean other than being mostly empty?
 
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oh no, don't tell me you think Horizon "Ubisoft wants its 2008 game design back" Forbidden West has good open world design too lol
What the fuck does "good open world design" actually mean? All I'm hearing from this contingent is hand holding and markers which means nothing to the design of the world and more to do with the markers in it.
 
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