• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Phil Spencer Responds To Starfield and Redfall Delay: "We Hear the Feedback" (IGN)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Umbasaborne

Member
We all want not a 2nd Cyberpunk but we hate when a Dev delays 2 Games...
Wrong Gamer World...

The delay is a hard move for Xbox 2022 but it will even better 2023😉
The problem is xbox Has been saying “next year will be better” for the past 6 years, and so far many of their first party studios have failed to deliver content. That on top of their non existent launch line up paints a messy picture for xbox. As i said, its not the delays people are mad about, i would prefer a less buggy starfield. Its the blatant lying about release dates to build brand momentum, and the fact that there is a very real chance that they literally have no first party exclusives for this year, which looks awful when you compare it to sony and nintends line ups
 
The problem is xbox Has been saying “next year will be better” for the past 6 years, and so far many of their first party studios have failed to deliver content. That on top of their non existent launch line up paints a messy picture for xbox. As i said, its not the delays people are mad about, i would prefer a less buggy starfield. Its the blatant lying about release dates to build brand momentum, and the fact that there is a very real chance that they literally have no first party exclusives for this year, which looks awful when you compare it to sony and nintends line ups
Oh Please, how you can say that about Xbox and look over Nintendo makes me laugh. Nintendo delays games and all the Switch had for its launch lineup was Wii U ports, At least MS allowed BC mode to most of its games for free. How many times have Nintendo shown off Zelda only for the user needing to wait years for the game to actually come out and I mean Prime 4 only been in development for 5 plus years and still nothing at all to show for it.

I'll also be amazing if Forza doesn't launch this year myself.
 

Umbasaborne

Member
Oh Please, how you can say that about Xbox and look over Nintendo makes me laugh. Nintendo delays games and all the Switch had for its launch lineup was Wii U ports, At least MS allowed BC mode to most of its games for free. How many times have Nintendo shown off Zelda only for the user needing to wait years for the game to actually come out and I mean Prime 4 only been in development for 5 plus years and still nothing at all to show for it.

I'll also be amazing if Forza doesn't launch this year myself.
Yeah, but nintendo and sony pump out games on a way more consisten basis then microsofts first party does. Im not saying their games get delayed, but with then its never the case that their big games get delayed then they literally have nothing for an entire year
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Phil I trust you with my life

 
Last edited:

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Oh Please, how you can say that about Xbox and look over Nintendo makes me laugh. Nintendo delays games and all the Switch had for its launch lineup was Wii U ports, At least MS allowed BC mode to most of its games for free. How many times have Nintendo shown off Zelda only for the user needing to wait years for the game to actually come out and I mean Prime 4 only been in development for 5 plus years and still nothing at all to show for it.

I'll also be amazing if Forza doesn't launch this year myself.
Oh please, you'd have to be pretty fucking stupid to fail to see that even with delays Sony and Nintendo are consistently putting out new games. Yes, delays happen, but with MS it seems to be non-stop delays.

Phil has done a lot of good things for Xbox, no doubt, but when it comes to getting games out, he seems he has been rather lackluster.

If you ask me, the person they need to hire to be in charge of Game Development over the entire MS brand is Rod Fergusson. That man's track record of getting games completed and within budget is impeccable. He saved Bioshock Infinite, Made Gears 4 in two years. Made Gears 5 in 3 years. The man knows how to get games done.
 
Last edited:
Oh please, you'd have to be pretty fucking stupid to fail to see that even with delays Sony and Nintendo are consistently putting out new games. Yes, delays happen, but with MS it seems to be non-stop delays.

Phil has done a lot of good things for Xbox, no doubt, but when it comes to getting games out, he seems he has been rather lackluster.

If you ask me, the person they need to hire to be in charge of Game Development over the entire MS brand is Rod Fergusson. That man's track record of getting games completed and within budget is impeccable. He saved Bioshock Infinite, Made Gears 4 in two years. Made Gears 5 in 3 years. The man knows how to get games done.
Speak for yourself. In terms of actual 'In-House' games, Nintendo hasn't done any more than MS, more so when you take out Wii Ports.
Zelda always gets delayed, Animal Crossing was delayed and God knows when Prime 4 will make out and it wasn't like Gear V, Forza Horizon 5 Psychonauts 2 were delayed


I would say that Aaron Greenberg needs to be moved, XBox PR is terrible

 
Yeah, but nintendo and sony pump out games on a way more consisten basis then microsofts first party does. Im not saying their games get delayed, but with then its never the case that their big games get delayed then they literally have nothing for an entire year
Nintendo?. They're no better than MS for the number of In-House games they make than X Box and Nintendo always announces delays to Zelda. I highly doubt MS got anything to come out this year
I'll be amazed if Forza 8 isn't out this year
 
Oh Please, how you can say that about Xbox and look over Nintendo makes me laugh. Nintendo delays games and all the Switch had for its launch lineup was Wii U ports, At least MS allowed BC mode to most of its games for free. How many times have Nintendo shown off Zelda only for the user needing to wait years for the game to actually come out and I mean Prime 4 only been in development for 5 plus years and still nothing at all to show for it.

I'll also be amazing if Forza doesn't launch this year myself.
Nintendo delayed BotW, but has Pokémon Legends, Mario Strikers, Switch Sports, Kirby and the Forgotten Lands, Splatoon 3, Xenoblade Chronicles 3, Bayonetta 3, Pokémon Scarlett/Violet, Advance Wars in 2022.

Microsoft delayed Starfield had has.... nothing.
 

DarkMage619

Member
Nintendo delayed BotW, but has Pokémon Legends, Mario Strikers, Switch Sports, Kirby and the Forgotten Lands, Splatoon 3, Xenoblade Chronicles 3, Bayonetta 3, Pokémon Scarlett/Violet, Advance Wars in 2022.

Microsoft delayed Starfield had has.... nothing.
Maybe they should give a game showcase or something to give customers some idea of what is planned for the rest of the year. Maybe you could shoot them an email and see if they can throw something together.
 
Maybe they should give a game showcase or something to give customers some idea of what is planned for the rest of the year. Maybe you could shoot them an email and see if they can throw something together.
Maybe one they label as a Bethesda showcase where they use Starfield assets to advertise it? That's where they'll announce big 2022 games?
 

kyliethicc

Member
By their own definition, Starfield isn't first-party since it's still published by Bethesda which I guess is true. They're being allowed to self-publish by MS, meaning the game's not directly under XGS oversight.
It’s still first party since the new Microsoft Gaming umbrella owns ZeniMax (and Xbox of course.).

They just now have more than 1 publishing label. Xbox, Bethesda, and Activision Blizzard (once that’s closed.)

Like how Take Two has several labels - 2K, Rockstar, Private Division, etc.

Same with Sony and Bungie. Owned by Sony, so it’s still 1st party. No other party is involved.

We’re now in a new era where the platform holders now own subsidiaries that also publish games.
 
Last edited:

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Don't see it that way if it isn't published by XGS.

That's a weird way of looking at it.

Zenimax is owned by MS. They're just keeping its label different from XGS as Zenimax is way too big and has too many studios under itself. They will do the same with Activision. Activision isn't going to be rebranded XGS.

But in the end they are both MS / Xbox first parties.
 
Last edited:

Andodalf

Member
I feel like a tool at this point defending Xbox. Not even these delays but if you're not a fan of Forza it's slim pickings for exclusive games especially if like me you have a PS5 as your main console. I should have spent the $500 of my Series X money on PS5 / Steam games and bought one in late 2023.
why are you buying a series x if you have a pc?
 

DarkMage619

Member
Maybe one they label as a Bethesda showcase where they use Starfield assets to advertise it? That's where they'll announce big 2022 games?
Bethesda is Xbox. Who cares what it's called or what assets are used to advertise it I just hope they take your advice and do something soon! I am shocked no one on their team has thought of this.
 

Shmunter

Member
Bethesda is Xbox. Who cares what it's called or what assets are used to advertise it I just hope they take your advice and do something soon! I am shocked no one on their team has thought of this.
Not the case, Bathesda comes under Microsoft Gaming, not Xbox studios. Matt Booty is in charge of Xbox studios, reporting to Phil who has been reclassified to CEO Microsoft Gaming.

Not to discount the obvious synergies and exclusive deals that can be struck easily.

If this is not the case, happy to concede to any official info.
 

Hendrick's

Member
Not the case, Bathesda comes under Microsoft Gaming, not Xbox studios. Matt Booty is in charge of Xbox studios, reporting to Phil who has been reclassified to CEO Microsoft Gaming.

Not to discount the obvious synergies and exclusive deals that can be struck easily.

If this is not the case, happy to concede to any official info.
They are all under Xbox Game Studios.
 

DarkMage619

Member
Not the case, Bathesda comes under Microsoft Gaming, not Xbox studios. Matt Booty is in charge of Xbox studios, reporting to Phil who has been reclassified to CEO Microsoft Gaming.

Not to discount the obvious synergies and exclusive deals that can be struck easily.

If this is not the case, happy to concede to any official info.
Guess what Xbox is under MS so BOTH are MS properties. It's pointless to argue semantics. There will be no exclusive deals with Bethesda to be made unless Xbox is signing off on it. Hopefully you aren't under some impression that Bethesda is independent.
 

Shmunter

Member
Guess what Xbox is under MS so BOTH are MS properties. It's pointless to argue semantics. There will be no exclusive deals with Bethesda to be made unless Xbox is signing off on it. Hopefully you aren't under some impression that Bethesda is independent.
So is Ms Excel, I don’t see you shilling for that
 

Hendrick's

Member
Guess what Xbox is under MS so BOTH are MS properties. It's pointless to argue semantics. There will be no exclusive deals with Bethesda to be made unless Xbox is signing off on it. Hopefully you aren't under some impression that Bethesda is independent.
He's wrong though. Xbox Game Studios website clearly states they are part of XGS. The confusion is that there are two publishing arms under XGS. Bethesda is a subsidiary of XGS.

You are right though, why the hell does this matter?
 

Shmunter

Member
He's wrong though. Xbox Game Studios website clearly states they are part of XGS. The confusion is that there are two publishing arms under XGS. Bethesda is a subsidiary of XGS.

You are right though, why the hell does this matter?
That website is just a PR brochure with no publicized org chart. Even then those studios are conveniently separated under their own heading on there.

The buyout has been structured into a separate business under Microsoft, it's been officially stated.

Do these studios report to Matt Booty or not. I'm not saying one way or the other, but indication is they do not. But no argument from me if there is evidence to that,
 

Hendrick's

Member
That website is just a PR brochure with no publicized org chart. Even then those studios are conveniently separated under their own heading on there.

The buyout has been structured into a separate business under Microsoft, it's been officially stated.

Do these studios report to Matt Booty or not. I'm not saying one way or the other, but indication is they do not. But no argument from me if there is evidence to that,
They either report to Booty or Spencer. No one has an org chart that shows which, but I'm not sure why it matters?
 

Shmunter

Member
They either report to Booty or Spencer. No one has an org chart that shows which, but I'm not sure why it matters?
Booty = Xbox Gaming
Spencer = Ms Gaming

How it matters is in how they are managed and decisions made. The discussion thus far here has been on management & performance of studios. It is quite possible, Booty has no governance over Bathesda studios like he has over 343 for example.
 

IFireflyl

Member
Booty = Xbox Gaming
Spencer = Ms Gaming

How it matters is in how they are managed and decisions made. The discussion thus far here has been on management & performance of studios. It is quite possible, Booty has no governance over Bathesda studios like he has over 343 for example.

What's your overall point? I've been reading through your posts, and I'm lost as to what your argument was originally regarding.
 
Last edited:

Shmunter

Member
What's your overall point? I've been reading through your posts, and I'm lost as to what your argument was originally regarding.
If you read carefully, you’d see poster say Bathesda = Xbox. I merely corrected it. That’s all there is to it.
 

IFireflyl

Member
If you read carefully, you’d see poster say Bathesda = Xbox. I merely corrected it. That’s all there is to it.

Bethesda is a part of Xbox Game Studios, but the Zenimax/Bethesda president (James Leder) reports directly to Phil Spencer. Bethesda has an unusual relationship in this regard.

Also, Microsoft Games/Microsoft Game Studio was the old name for what is currently Xbox Game Studios. You seem to think there are two separate entities when there are not.

Edit: I think I found where your confusion is coming from. I believe you're referring to the Microsoft Gaming Division that is a separate class than Xbox Game Studios. Every game developer/publisher acquisition is put under Xbox Game Studios which is under the Microsoft Gaming Division of Microsoft. Microsoft Gaming Division isn't its own thing that has other developer/publisher acquisitions separate from Xbox Game Studios. The Microsoft Gaming Division is only called that to slice up the Microsoft pie for operating expenses, shareholder meetings, et cetera. They have several different divisions (such as the Windows Division), and the Microsoft Gaming Division also covers hardware items which Xbox Game Studios doesn't touch.
 
Last edited:

Shmunter

Member
Bethesda is a part of Xbox Game Studios, but the Zenimax/Bethesda president (James Leder) reports directly to Phil Spencer. Bethesda has an unusual relationship in this regard.

Also, Microsoft Games/Microsoft Game Studio was the old name for what is currently Xbox Game Studios. You seem to think there are two separate entities when there are not.

Edit: I think I found where your confusion is coming from. I believe you're referring to the Microsoft Gaming Division that is a separate class than Xbox Game Studios. Every game developer/publisher acquisition is put under Xbox Game Studios which is under the Microsoft Gaming Division of Microsoft. Microsoft Gaming Division isn't its own thing that has other developer/publisher acquisitions separate from Xbox Game Studios. The Microsoft Gaming Division is only called that to slice up the Microsoft pie for operating expenses, shareholder meetings, et cetera. They have several different divisions (such as the Windows Division), and the Microsoft Gaming Division also covers hardware items which Xbox Game Studios doesn't touch.
I’m sure you’re familiar with organisational structures and org charts based on your insights. They are a quintessential hierarchy’s like a family tree.

You yourself have qualified Leder reports directly to Spencer.

However, Xbox Game Studios reports to Booty. It doesn’t add up in such a hierarchy, and certainly makes little logistical sense for it to sit there if it is not reporting to that sections leadership. If it is sitting there, it would just be tokenism for outward PR presentation would you not agree?

When the deal went through, it was stated Bathesda will be a seperate business unit under MS. Again there is conflation here of PR & marketing with the actual corp structure reality.

Not dissimilar to Sony purchasing Bungie, not PlayStation.
 

sircaw

Banned
I’m sure you’re familiar with organisational structures and org charts based on your insights. They are a quintessential hierarchy’s like a family tree.

You yourself have qualified Leder reports directly to Spencer.

However, Xbox Game Studios reports to Booty. It doesn’t add up in such a hierarchy, and certainly makes little logistical sense for it to sit there if it is not reporting to that sections leadership. If it is sitting there, it would just be tokenism for outward PR presentation would you not agree?

When the deal went through, it was stated Bathesda will be a seperate business unit under MS. Again there is conflation here of PR & marketing with the actual corp structure reality.

Not dissimilar to Sony purchasing Bungie, not PlayStation.
You sound so technical, i bet you watched a lot of La law when you were young. :messenger_grinning:

I See You Flirting GIF by NBC
 
Last edited:

Pelta88

Member
Yesterday I saw something on social media pertaining to the defence of Phil Spencer and the Starfield and redfall delay that blew my mind.

An "XBOX ambassador" stated that.


And in a strange turn of events it's revealed that this person isn't an actual gamer. She admits to preferring to watch someone else game. But what blew my fucking mind is that from following this thread, it was revealed to me that there is a slew of these types of accounts/people who don't actually game but get paid upto 50K and all of them are seemingly in unison telling, telling us XBOX gamers that we need to wait.

I didn't know this type of shit existed! Non gamers essentially telling actual gamers to "Shut up and wait." And being paid money to do so. That's underhanded right?

It made me sick to my stomach to see the hobby I care about be infiltrated by these types who are paid to push corporate damage control while pretending to be gamers. Kinda makes my skin crawl, kinda.
 
Yesterday I saw something on social media pertaining to the defence of Phil Spencer and the Starfield and redfall delay that blew my mind.

An "XBOX ambassador" stated that.


And in a strange turn of events it's revealed that this person isn't an actual gamer. She admits to preferring to watch someone else game. But what blew my fucking mind is that from following this thread, it was revealed to me that there is a slew of these types of accounts/people who don't actually game but get paid upto 50K and all of them are seemingly in unison telling, telling us XBOX gamers that we need to wait.

I didn't know this type of shit existed! Non gamers essentially telling actual gamers to "Shut up and wait." And being paid money to do so. That's underhanded right?

It made me sick to my stomach to see the hobby I care about be infiltrated by these types who are paid to push corporate damage control while pretending to be gamers. Kinda makes my skin crawl, kinda.
You didn't know about this? This is the official Xbox Ambassador program -- you can sign up here. For full disclaimer, I do not support initiatives like this.

This program offers "missions" to ambassadors who then get rewarded to complete those "missions" on the internet. Here is an example of what the inside of the program looks like.



They also have special campaigns during "E3 time" (which is pretty much this time of the year). The primary objective is to increase online chatter and engagement (and basically rewarding people for doing that). As you can see below, it specifically rewards people for "taking 5 chats per day".



In action:


Here is a public list of some of the rewards that this program offers.



Based on the grapevine I've heard, a large majority of the rewards are now in the shape of Gamepass coupons.

The Tweet you shared above is from an Xbox Ambassador. You can also see other tweets by her (and from other Xbox Ambassadors) that use the same marketing language that Xbox uses to promote their brand. The idea is to use the same messaging and gain mindshare.

Here is an example. See the highlighted phrase.



Now check this Tweet.


This is basically advertisement from people who get paid in kind to advertise, but they aren't seen as employees of a company, but rather gamers like we are. Some people call it just a fair marketing tactic; I do not agree with that. I believe it's not ethical to have a system like this one in place.

More fair disclaimer: I do not boycott a company because of this. I still like and purchase and play some of the Xbox games on PC, despite this, but this leaves a bitter taste for me, and I am just more cautious of Xbox's marketing campaigns whenever I see one. I hope no other company is doing this. I like Sony and Nintendo for their games, but if they are also involved in programs like this, I'll have the same stand against them. I believe that fellow gamers are more important than protecting corporates, and programs like these have the potential to affect the gamers community and the mindshare in a sneak, unethical way.
 
Last edited:

GHG

Member
Yesterday I saw something on social media pertaining to the defence of Phil Spencer and the Starfield and redfall delay that blew my mind.

An "XBOX ambassador" stated that.


And in a strange turn of events it's revealed that this person isn't an actual gamer. She admits to preferring to watch someone else game. But what blew my fucking mind is that from following this thread, it was revealed to me that there is a slew of these types of accounts/people who don't actually game but get paid upto 50K and all of them are seemingly in unison telling, telling us XBOX gamers that we need to wait.

I didn't know this type of shit existed! Non gamers essentially telling actual gamers to "Shut up and wait." And being paid money to do so. That's underhanded right?

It made me sick to my stomach to see the hobby I care about be infiltrated by these types who are paid to push corporate damage control while pretending to be gamers. Kinda makes my skin crawl, kinda.

This is nothing new and they've been doing this sort of thing for a long time.

In my view if you feel the need to do this as a business then either you lack confidence in your products ability to stand on it's own feet or it's a scam.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom