Playstation Social Justice Fund and Career Pathways

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M03YtheM0

Member
The fact that people don't get this is a bit weird. They clearly must believe that success/failure is purely an individual's choice and there is no such thing as classism or straight out nepotism in certain industries.
All the stuff I've read about how the industry came to be what it is, keeps going back to "white boys make games, other white boys play those games, and get inspired to make their own games, and the cycle continues".
Aren't these studios full of people who are in fact gamers?
What program has there ever been that encouraged anyone white or Asian to make games? Like seriously?
 

hevy007

Banned
What I find most baffling is that I hear stories of self taught indie devs all the time, but when it comes to "marginalized people", we get treated like babies who can't think for themselves.
Nobody needs to be told to make a game, nobody needs to see someone who "looks like them" making a game to wanna make games.
You do or you don't, you're interested or you aren't.
Why do you need some million dollar marketing campaign to see yourself doing something, if you're already interested in whatever it is.
It might help for some people it might not, you sound like a coon.
 

M03YtheM0

Member
It might help for some people it might not, you sound like a coon.
I'm coming at it from a Huey Freeman angle.

I get that as black people we need help in some areas, but needing help to WANT something?! Seriously?
We now literally need someone to hold our hands and point us towards gamedev?
We play games, we buy games, we can make games, the same way any other self taught indie can.
We're better than half hearted, virtue signaled, hand outs from dudes who have had a history of being racist, whose only goal is their "corporate image" and their stock prices.
 

M03YtheM0

Member
I found the PC during the PS4's lifespan and stories like this couldn't make me happier. By the way 'racial equity' in the west necessitates racist discrimination against asians and whites.
A few years ago this would have sounded extreme to me, but if the media is anything to go buy, this seems to be the case now.
 

ShirAhava

Plays with kids toys, in the adult gaming world
This is all about ESG Scores and pandering for pay(funding)
I sincerely hope no one thinks they actually give a damn about minorities or that this actually helps us in the long run
tech hubs like SV and San Francisco are home to some (not everyone obviously) of the most bigoted liberal fucks you'd never want to meet
Being (mostly)black and benefiting from programs like this....yeah they get you in the door, being completely capable of doing the work only to be quietly let go later on
when you don't 'fit' into the corporate culture (like say if you don't think orange man bad or you like to read the bible at lunch) Unless you conform or just so happen to be in line with the agendas they are pushing you aren't the "other" they are looking for......try being a person of color who does not fit into the image perpetuated by the woke media of how a person of color should be these liberal 'allies' turn into deep south klansmen over night.....anyway this shouldn't be a thing hire the best people for the job whoever that may be! I don't need to see 'people who look like me' working on games or in games I need people who are creative and good at what they do working on games.
 
 
In USA is there a big difference in the amount of money that on average have the persons depending on ethnicity? What is the split in US population and US gaming industry in the other ethnicities?

To work in tech maybe you needed a long education in pretty expensive schools/universities in USA, plus also have to spend a lot of time learning and practicing at home. Things that maybe only people from families with a certain amount of money can afford.

Maybe the difference comes from there: maybe on average certain ethnicities, in addition to be a way smaller part of the population, on average there's a smaller portion of them who can afford the required time and money required to start in the industry.

Maybe the problem is to turn a basic need like education a business that many can't afford, keeping some people out of the loop.

You don't even need a university degree to get into tech. It's one of the easiest fields to get into.

MIT puts courses online for free. You can learn full stack web development by teaching yourself and take on freelance work to build up a portfolio. Then land an easy six-figure salary at a top firm. The skills are just THAT in demand.

How do I know this? Well, I have multiple friends and family members (all black) who entered the Tech field through this route.

Heck, my friend's brother, went to college in the UK, came out with a third-class undergraduate degree, worked his ass off and is now a director working at a major tech start-up.

If you were talking about careers in Law or Medicine or engineering, then everything you said would have merit (although I'm black from a working-class background and now work as an engineer earning a pretty tidy sum). In Tech, however, it is nothing like what you describe. It's far easier to get into.
 
People don’t understand their own advantage in certain scenarios, so they’ll never understand how others may be at a disadvantage.

People who argue things like “merit” or “bootstraps” just come off at best ignorant and at worst racist.

Have you ever considered that things like anti-racism, CRT, and ESG are just another version of "bootstraps," in that they're all designed to put the blame for inequality on something besides class inequality?

Look at Starbucks fighting against unions. Look at wall street breaking their own rules to stop regular people making money from gamestop trades. They're all big fans of CRT training, and anti-racist declarations, and ESG scores. Have you considered that if every major company is pushing something, it's probably not designed to actually challenge the status quo, and more than anything is likely to be a distraction?
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
So they go back to hiring by skincolor, but instead of prejudice (?) it is now in order to fulfill a quota?
Must feel nice to be hired for the way to look rather than your skills…
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
You don't even need a university degree to get into tech. It's one of the easiest fields to get into.

MIT puts courses online for free. You can learn full stack web development by teaching yourself and take on freelance work to build up a portfolio. Then land an easy six-figure salary at a top firm. The skills are just THAT in demand.

How do I know this? Well, I have multiple friends and family members (all black) who entered the Tech field through this route.

Heck, my friend's brother, went to college in the UK, came out with a third-class undergraduate degree, worked his ass off and is now a director working at a major tech start-up.

If you were talking about careers in Law or Medicine or engineering, then everything you said would have merit (although I'm black from a working-class background and now work as an engineer earning a pretty tidy sum). In Tech, however, it is nothing like what you describe. It's far easier to get into.
I cant speak for tech because I did the traditional route going to university for a business degree. And a business degree is probably among the most jack of all trade pieces of paper you can get which covers a wide net of career paths. Unless you get a high level job, it's not the kind of career path where you'll make $200,000 US at Google doing a modest desk job. That kind of money is for director level.

But to me, money and debt is the least worry. Thats what student loans are for. And people should aim for something they like as a priority in life or else you'll hate 40 years of working till retirement at 60+.

It's personal effort, having parents/family that give a shit about academic success and having a clear career path. You technically dont need #2 or #3, but it helps. But you definitely need #1.

My parents grew up poor and didnt even know English, but they gave enough guidance to simply stay in school, dont do anything dumb in life, no smoking or booze (being a drunk) or drugs. That's it. They didnt help me with homework, didn't give a shit about what I did in life, never asked me ever about my jobs after I graduated. They wouldnt even understand all the finance shit I do anyway. But as long as I like what I do, did well, and can earn a living on my own that's all that mattered. The rest of it is up to me to pick my own path to success.

Nobody is required to be from a silver plattered family tree to get a good job or strive for success. Most people in life dont come from millionaire families but seem to do fine in life with modest jobs.
 
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shaddam

Member
So can I apply to a diversity spot as an Eastern European? It's summer so I'm browner than usual. Jokes aside this is nothing just a corporate bullshit to make twitter weirdos in California happy
 

Orta

Banned
Who gives a shit if the game is crap, it was designed by a black guy who wears a dress and likes to play the pink oboe. And THAT is all that matters.

I'm buying two copies!
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
The only reason PS5 is not a $800 console is because AMD gave their chips basically for free. A grave mistake that I do not expect them to repeat
I thought it was because crybaby gamers get an hearth attack when they have to spend more than 500 dollars for something that is gonna last 7-8 years...
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
What I find most baffling is that I hear stories of self taught indie devs all the time, but when it comes to "marginalized people", we get treated like babies who can't think for themselves.
Nobody needs to be told to make a game, nobody needs to see someone who "looks like them" making a game to wanna make games.
You do or you don't, you're interested or you aren't.
Why do you need some million dollar marketing campaign to see yourself doing something, if you're already interested in whatever it is.
Yeah, it really sound strange when i hear stuff like that...

If you need some guidance to get into tech work because all the tech and videogames around you are not enough to make you grow a passion for tech, i'm not sure why everything else should work or why it would be needed.

Do Black childs in america go to different classes compared to white childs where tech is not involved? Why do they need special guidance to get into tech?
 
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Himuro

Member
All the stuff I've read about how the industry came to be what it is, keeps going back to "white boys make games, other white boys play those games, and get inspired to make their own games, and the cycle continues".
Aren't these studios full of people who are in fact gamers?
What program has there ever been that encouraged anyone white or Asian to make games? Like seriously?
Precisely. Black people complain about lacking "representation" in art but guess who chooses to not pursue art? Black people. Choosing certain paths aren't looked at in a positive light and this results in lack of representation in key media fields. Black people chose to not allow some people not pursue these paths because it's "too risky". I told the woman I've been courting for marriage some of my creative dreams the other day and she passed it off as "well, it's a hobby and as long as it doesn't get in the way of your duties to your family". I didn't take offense to it because I've realized that's just how black people are. We are risk averse, but without risk there's no reward. It's the people and our attitudes that keep black people from pursuing creative work which directly results in a lack of representation in this work. You can't, on one hand, complain about a lack of something but on the other push for people not pursuing that path. For a long time I bought into the notion that it was white society that is keeping black people from pursuing our passions. Nope. It's black people and its always been us.

I'm not sure if Latinos, Asians, Arabs, or other races are like this but whites have it good. They are allowed the individuality to risk and gain reward.

The only thing we can do is it have the mindset of wanting it and going for it.

This incentive crap is infantilizing.
 
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Esentially...so if you teach kids programming or IT in schools you'll garner more interest. He made it seem like the majority of us don't utilize phone, computers, gaming systems etc. We just don't have the proper programs on a wide scale level that introduces it to us as a career option.
none of the schools by me (e.g., high school) taught programming or IT, and my parents wouldnt buy a me computer... i had to save up money over years, bought the parts, and put it together myself at age 13. and im in an affluent part of CA.

basically every successful tech people i know sought it out themselves, not because it was presented to them.

the tech field is also famous for not needing formal education to enter. if you have the skills (formally acquired or self-learned), you'll find a career.

that said, teaching programming/IT in school will expose more kids to it... however, it could backfire too if students think the classes are lame.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
none of the schools by me (e.g., high school) taught programming or IT, and my parents wouldnt buy a me computer... i had to save up money over years, bought the parts, and put it together myself at age 13. and im in an affluent part of CA.

basically every successful tech people i know sought it out themselves, not because it was presented to them.

the tech field is also famous for not needing formal education to enter. if you have the skills (formally acquired or self-learned), you'll find a career.

that said, teaching programming/IT in school will expose more kids to it... however, it could backfire too if students think the classes are lame.
Exactly.

As I said earlier, I did business which is a very traditional go to school, do tests and case studies and graduate kind of thing. Then you hope a company hires you as a junior analyst or sales rep.

Unless someone is craving to be Steve jobs or Michael dell itching to be an entrepreneur asap, nobody is spending their evenings doing fake self tests or making up their own case studies. You follow the school program class by class. When a company hires you they teach you everything you need to know as you go, including learning any ERP systems as none of those are available for free home demos, nor would anyone even have the scope to do it even if SAP or Hyperion had free downloads to mess around with as a student.

Tech has always been one of those things where every great techie is always dabbling at home programming or doing graphic design after dinner on their own for skills, making a portfolio or just having fun doing it.

It’s one of those fields you got to get off your ass and do some shit on your own time to be good at it.
 
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MScarpa

Member
Can't believe we still have people on this planet that think and act like this. He would NEVER say something like that to ANYONE of color. Coward! I'm glad he's gone. You're lucky all you got was a perma ban. In the real world it's much worse and much more deserved.
 

lukilladog

Member
So why are they choking we the "brownies" here at Mexico with $700 usd console msrp´s?. Want to keep those online lobbies free of mexicans as possible?.

I´m pretty sure blacks used to be given "special" pricing at white stores to keep them away. (Which probably still happens at some places).
 
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On the topic, these people think that the only way to make money is by being employed by others, the only way to get in a job is by getting a degree.

A lot of people learned to make games by themselves, on their own computer or their parent's computer because they loved to play them and then moved to try their hand at it.

This is how it worked when I was a teen, a small group of guys (yes guys) went on to try to make games. I was asked to make graphics but refused, because I tend to pass on opportunities. Anyway, I think one of them ended up working for Ubisoft, but I lost contact with him. Like a lot of things, what you learn in school is only part of the story, a lot of people display their skills before even that time. Maybe you can play the inclusivity game with artists and such, but when it's time to resolve a quadratic operation or develop some optimized path funding algorithm you can't "fake it until you make it", nor can you be "inclusive" about who does the task, no matter how racist you think mathematics are.

Same for all kind of programmers and artists.

If you are not hired by someone in the business go make a game and prove yourself. If you are this good they will be the ones that are made fools for not taking advantage of the opportunity to have you work on their team.

This is not like it was hard to publish on steam or if there was not a million gaming sites (especially the big ones) that will push your game because you are part of X 'historically oppressed" group. They're probably going to put that in the very first sentence of the very first paragraph of their coverage, but at least you will get a leg up in the industry, one that is refused to anyone who did not win the intersectional lottery.
 

Griffon

Member
If you make a school for people based on their race and handicaps, guess what... the students will focus their career entirely about their own race and handicaps (and not about their skill).

Meaning all we'll get out of it, are incompetent over-entitled morons who will make everything about themselves and their list of 'defects' (real or imaginary).
 
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none of the schools by me (e.g., high school) taught programming or IT, and my parents wouldnt buy a me computer... i had to save up money over years, bought the parts, and put it together myself at age 13. and im in an affluent part of CA.

basically every successful tech people i know sought it out themselves, not because it was presented to them.

the tech field is also famous for not needing formal education to enter. if you have the skills (formally acquired or self-learned), you'll find a career.

that said, teaching programming/IT in school will expose more kids to it... however, it could backfire too if students think the classes are lame.
First bit is anecdotal. What worked for you isn't going to be the path everyone has. Last part is true, we need both exposure and resources for the people who want to pursue it.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Last part is true, we need both exposure and resources for the people who want to pursue it.
Yes and no.

I get your point. But high schools only have so much class time, and its already filled with the basics. To me, picking a career should be on the person to get off their ass and do it. Exposure is something they can find on their own.

Nowhere in high school do any courses (unless it changed the past 30 years when I did high school in the early 90s) are there any courses related to:

- Medicine (doc, dentist, nurse)
- Law
- Anything to do with animals (for anyone who wants to be a vet or marine biologist etc...)
- Anything to do with kids (social or guidance worker)
- Police, firemen
- Etc....

Yet people have enough brain cells to go for a career in these fields though most of the courses they take in high school are just boring general math, science, language courses.

For programming, graphic design etc.... if these things arent taught in grade school and are only available in college or $3000 evening certification programs, I dont see how the average 16 year old cant figure out how to take the initiative and dabble with free tools on the net, or seek out how to pursue a career in this industry after high school. One person in my fam tree has a degree in Comp Science and did programming as a career. If he could figure it out 30 years ago when there was no internet and the only thing he could go off was probably shitty college brochures and booklets, I dont see how modern day people cant figure it out on their own.
 

M03YtheM0

Member
You don't even need a university degree to get into tech. It's one of the easiest fields to get into.

MIT puts courses online for free. You can learn full stack web development by teaching yourself and take on freelance work to build up a portfolio. Then land an easy six-figure salary at a top firm. The skills are just THAT in demand.

How do I know this? Well, I have multiple friends and family members (all black) who entered the Tech field through this route.

Heck, my friend's brother, went to college in the UK, came out with a third-class undergraduate degree, worked his ass off and is now a director working at a major tech start-up.
Not to sound corny or anything but this is the most inspiring thing I've heard in a while.
 

M03YtheM0

Member
Precisely. Black people complain about lacking "representation" in art but guess who chooses to not pursue art? Black people. Choosing certain paths aren't looked at in a positive light and this results in lack of representation in key media fields. Black people chose to not allow some people not pursue these paths because it's "too risky". I told the woman I've been courting for marriage some of my creative dreams the other day and she passed it off as "well, it's a hobby and as long as it doesn't get in the way of your duties to your family". I didn't take offense to it because I've realized that's just how black people are. We are risk averse, but without risk there's no reward. It's the people and our attitudes that keep black people from pursuing creative work which directly results in a lack of representation in this work. You can't, on one hand, complain about a lack of something but on the other push for people not pursuing that path. For a long time I bought into the notion that it was white society that is keeping black people from pursuing our passions. Nope. It's black people and it's always been us.

I'm not sure if Latinos, Asians, Arabs, or other races are like this but whites have it good. They are allowed the individuality to risk and gain reward.

The only thing we can do is it have the mindset of wanting it and going for it.

This incentive crap is infantilizing.
This is exactly right.
The richest self made man from my country started a tech company, and he's always telling the story about how nobody, especially his family, was on his side.
He mortgaged his house, took out extra loans and only had his best friend and business partner on his side.
It took a bit of time, but he got the company up and running. Now he employs more people in the country than a lot of other industries and he's got big companies all over the world now.
Risk vs Reward (not saying be reckless obviously).
If you didn't want to take the risk, or the hard route, you can't expect to win big.
No company is gonna want to pay big money, and they definitely won't give you ownership for free.
 
Yeah let’s go back to poorly designed $600 consoles, shit 3rd party relations, and 1st party studios putting out C rated crap.
I actually think California, service games, paid online, too much DLC, season passes, incomplete games, broken/glitchy games, censorship, price increase of games, console price increase, less innovation, less risks, remake after remake, pandering, predominately Western games, less exclusives, etc are much worst than that.

Imo, PSOne and PS2 were amazing consoles. Even the PS3 with it flaws and high price has great moments especially when they properly learned the console.
 
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Himuro

Member
This is exactly right.
The richest self made man from my country started a tech company, and he's always telling the story about how nobody, especially his family, was on his side.
He mortgaged his house, took out extra loans and only had his best friend and business partner on his side.
It took a bit of time, but he got the company up and running. Now he employs more people in the country than a lot of other industries and he's got big companies all over the world now.
Risk vs Reward (not saying be reckless obviously).
If you didn't want to take the risk, or the hard route, you can't expect to win big.
No company is gonna want to pay big money, and they definitely won't give you ownership for free.
I truly believe it comes with being colonized. It's a colonized mindset.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Precisely. Black people complain about lacking "representation" in art but guess who chooses to not pursue art? Black people. Choosing certain paths aren't looked at in a positive light and this results in lack of representation in key media fields. Black people chose to not allow some people not pursue these paths because it's "too risky". I told the woman I've been courting for marriage some of my creative dreams the other day and she passed it off as "well, it's a hobby and as long as it doesn't get in the way of your duties to your family". I didn't take offense to it because I've realized that's just how black people are. We are risk averse, but without risk there's no reward. It's the people and our attitudes that keep black people from pursuing creative work which directly results in a lack of representation in this work. You can't, on one hand, complain about a lack of something but on the other push for people not pursuing that path. For a long time I bought into the notion that it was white society that is keeping black people from pursuing our passions. Nope. It's black people and its always been us.

I'm not sure if Latinos, Asians, Arabs, or other races are like this but whites have it good. They are allowed the individuality to risk and gain reward.

The only thing we can do is it have the mindset of wanting it and going for it.

This incentive crap is infantilizing.
Thats the thing.

Everyone hears about the rich guys who are successful, but nobody brings up all the business and shop owners who go belly up unless it's some wall street stock bombing like Bed Bath Beyond. And stats show more businesses fail than succeed as a whole. So it shows the media is skewed to showing success stories and elite rich people and giant corporations while ignoring the average company or home business failing.

There's going to be tons of rich white people, but also behind the scenes tons of white people who fail.

Also, if you look at small business it seems all the mainstream success stories are mostly run by whites or asians (east and indian). They open up a wide enough net of businesses people will buy stuff.

It seems every black owned small business or shop in Toronto is some kind of Caribbean food restaurant or small store selling African culture trinkets or its a variety store. The Black population in Toronto is like 7.5% and in Canada its 3.5% according to a Google check. Now in 2022 maybe it's 8% and 4%. Close enough. So you're never going to get a large enough net of consumers to build up to medium sized businesses or more if the business focus is aimed at small pie slices of the population.

Real estate market has been huge the past 10 years. Only last few covid years did home sales drop. But it's been a boon for a decade.

I have never seen one real estate agent business card, flyer in my mail, or billboard with a Black person trying to get sales as an agent or broker. I've seen every other ethnicity trying to ride the real estate train with their face plastered everywhere trying to get sales or getting their junk mail fridge magnet or business card in my mailbox.

Being a real estate agent cant be that hard. Some of my FT coworkers the past 10 years became an agent on the side after dinner and on weekends.
 
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DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
To put it into perspective, there are about 750,000 tech jobs listed available in the US alone, and only around 50,000 graduates from universities entering the jobs market.

So there are a LOT of opportunities in that space.
Where are you getting that 50,000 number from? That seems extremely low.
 

Jinzo Prime

Member
I'll say this as a black man, most black people that I know who are into computer science are also into videogames, anime, or other aspects of Japanese culture. I say it's a shame that Playstation has so thoroughly removed themselves from the culture that inspired my cousin and his friends to pursue their dreams in that field.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I'll say this as a black man, most black people that I know who are into computer science are also into videogames, anime, or other aspects of Japanese culture. I say it's a shame that Playstation has so thoroughly removed themselves from the culture that inspired my cousin and his friends to pursue their dreams in that field.
I think thats true as a whole (maybe I'm wrong?) that comp science people will be into gaming and nerdy kinds of things. I dont see it correlating that comp science majors want to do techie stuff, but they grew up hating computers, never played games, or hates sci fi movies or Star Trek kinds of media.

So if Sony is trending away from Japanese stuff, I'd think it would affect every ethnic group equally???
 

M03YtheM0

Member
Yes and no.

I get your point. But high schools only have so much class time, and its already filled with the basics. To me, picking a career should be on the person to get off their ass and do it. Exposure is something they can find on their own.

Nowhere in high school do any courses (unless it changed the past 30 years when I did high school in the early 90s) are there any courses related to:

- Medicine (doc, dentist, nurse)
- Law
- Anything to do with animals (for anyone who wants to be a vet or marine biologist etc...)
- Anything to do with kids (social or guidance worker)
- Police, firemen
- Etc....

Yet people have enough brain cells to go for a career in these fields though most of the courses they take in high school are just boring general math, science, language courses.

For programming, graphic design etc.... if these things arent taught in grade school and are only available in college or $3000 evening certification programs, I dont see how the average 16 year old cant figure out how to take the initiative and dabble with free tools on the net, or seek out how to pursue a career in this industry after high school. One person in my fam tree has a degree in Comp Science and did programming as a career. If he could figure it out 30 years ago when there was no internet and the only thing he could go off was probably shitty college brochures and booklets, I dont see how modern day people cant figure it out on their own.
You've nailed it on that last line.
Things were way harder for the people who came before us but they still pulled it off.
I can imagine someone trying to say that the people who are making games now needed to see them first to decide to make them. But all the classics we play now were made by developers who are still alive and still making games, and they could tell you just how hard it was back then.

I remember John Romero (one of the head programmers of Doom, talked about how lucky young people have it today because back in the early 90s, Doom was made by 6 friends who didn't have any of the software tools and tutorials available online for free.
 

M03YtheM0

Member
I truly believe it comes with being colonized. It's a colonized mindset.
Sigh, what was that Bob Marley song again?
"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery,
none but ourselves can free our minds"
He sang that almost 50 years ago, how would he feel if he was still alive?
 
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