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PlayStation: Xbox's Call of Duty offer was "inadequate on many levels"

Deerock71

Member
I wonder if Sony will regret not taking the 'current deal plus 3 years' offer, as i'm 100% certain this buy will end up being passed.
Phil to Sony:
Lose Willy Wonka GIF
 

sainraja

Member
I don't think anyone here will bite.....but I will try anyway.

People that want the deal to go through (whatever your reasons might be), make an argument about why it would be BAD (if it went through).

People that don't want the deal to go through or are concerned about what it could mean, make an argument about why it would be GOOD (if it went through).

Make a decent effort of doing this, if you are going to try. :D
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
People that want the deal to go through (whatever your reasons might be), make an argument about why it would be BAD (if it went through).

Real talk ?

It could become bad in terms that MS are a little too relaxed in letting their teams take as long as they need to make games, so we might see a lot of activision games start taking longer and longer to come out. It is undoubtedly better for the developers to not be in a state of crunch, but as gamers ... we are an impatient bunch.
 
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Three

Member
Jim is right about what? How is the offer Phil made 'inadequate on many levels'? What does MS owe the PlayStation platform outside of the agreement MS already said they would honor?

MS owes them nothing but MS doesn't own ABK either to be making that offer yet to begin with. The offer was to appease regulators and squash resistance to the merger. regulators DID have an issue with the acquisition and COD access being hindered though.

Phil and co back in Jan were vaguely saying that the aquisition was about bringing COD to more platforms and not hindering access:

"Some commentators have asked whether we will continue to make popular content like Activision's Call of Duty available on competing platforms like Sony's PlayStation," Microsoft writes in its post. "The obvious concern is that Microsoft could make this title available exclusively on the Xbox console, undermining opportunities for Sony PlayStation users."
"To be clear, Microsoft will continue to make Call of Duty and other popular Activision Blizzard titles available on PlayStation through the term of any existing agreement with Activision," the company continues. "And we have committed to Sony that we will also make them available on PlayStation beyond the existing agreement and into the future so that Sony fans can continue to enjoy the games they love."
As for other consoles, Microsoft notes it's "also interested in taking similar steps to support Nintendo's successful platform", adding, "We believe this is the right thing for the industry, for gamers and for our business."

Jim Ryan just said without ambiguity this was actually the exact offer they made and he found it inadequate only because Phil went public and started talking about several more years only at the beginning of September with several news agencies. The competition and mergers authority didn't like the fact that CoD access could be hindered for competitors and asked for new proposals too. This was probably why it was brought up again. Whether the regulators are happy with any new proposal remains to be seen.

Jim Ryan doesn't need to be 'right' he was just clearly stating facts without the bullshit platitudes of PR releases pretending everyone is singing kumbaya and how this is somehow for the greater good and his opinion was that he found the offer inadequate.
 
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Stuart360

Member
I wouldnt be surprised if they make a deal with Sony for 'x' years, the aqqusition goes through, and over those 'x' years, MS see a decent uptake in Xbox sales, a decent uptake in Gamepass subs, and a decent amount of COD sales on Playstation. Then in the end they decide to just keep it going as it is and keep releasing on Playstation.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Jim is right about what? How is the offer Phil made 'inadequate on many levels'? What does MS owe the PlayStation platform outside of the agreement MS already said they would honor?
Jim Ryan’s inadequate claim can be anything. It can also mean he’s being unreasonable treating the MS offer bad, but that’s according to Jim.

MS can offer a 10 year deal and that can technically be inadequate to if Jim is expecting a forever deal.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I wouldnt be surprised if they make a deal with Sony for 'x' years, the aqqusition goes through, and over those 'x' years, MS see a decent uptake in Xbox sales, a decent uptake in Gamepass subs, and a decent amount of COD sales on Playstation. Then in the end they decide to just keep it going as it is and keep releasing on Playstation.
No surprise there. Minecraft was bought in 2014 and MS never pulled the plug in competing systems.

They even made MC Dungeons multiplat in 2020.

In the past 8 years, they could had cut off MC fans from competing systems at any time. Yet they are all still supported like nothing happened.
 

sainraja

Member
MS allowing 343 touch any of Activisions shooters!
lol, come on. A more serious effort.

Real talk ?

It could become bad in terms that MS are a little too relaxed in letting their teams take as long as they need to make games, so we might see a lot of activision games start taking longer and longer to come out. It is undoubtedly better for the developers to not be in a state of crunch, but as gamers ... we are an impatient bunch.
I dunno. I don't see that happening....the teams being a little too relaxed. Any other ways you think it could be bad?
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
lol, come on. A more serious effort.


I dunno. I don't see that happening....the teams being a little too relaxed. Any other ways you think it could be bad?

Well i mean just look at how many MS projects we know are in development but without any concrete release dates. They've amassed a very good bunch of studios for first party but at this point, in 2022, there isn't exactly a lot to show for it. Looking forward to 2023.
 

Stuart360

Member
No surprise there. Minecraft was bought in 2014 and MS never pulled the plug in competing systems.

They even made MC Dungeons multiplat in 2020.

In the past 8 years, they could had cut off MC fans from competing systems at any time. Yet they are all still supported like nothing happened.
Minecraft isnt a good example because the creator only agreed to the sale if MS kept Minecraft on everyhting,including future Minecraft games.
That was his stipulation to the sale. 'I made Minecraft for everyone to enjoy' was one of his statements at the time over this.
 
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Menzies

Member
I don't think anyone here will bite.....but I will try anyway.

People that want the deal to go through (whatever your reasons might be), make an argument about why it would be BAD (if it went through).

People that don't want the deal to go through or are concerned about what it could mean, make an argument about why it would be GOOD (if it went through).

Make a decent effort of doing this, if you are going to try. :D
I like dangled carrots. Maybe start up a new thread on this.

I find myself mostly backing Xbox and I wouldn't mind seeing them improve their situation relative to the market. Maybe I just like an underdog, maybe it's all the years of mockery with "Xbox has no games" and bringing up the rear in console sales. This deal going through would seem to at least give Sony a challenge for their market position.

It would be bad for several reasons: - consolidation risk, IP/studio mismanagement, leadership changes, business vision changes...and I seriously don't see it happening through this alone, but a massive over-correction in the market and Microsoft and Sony reverse roles. This leaves open the existing de-regulated practice of abusing dominant market position for cheap time/content exclusivity, which I hope the industry moves past as a practice in general.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
lol, come on. A more serious effort.
I wasnt joking. Ok, a little. Lol

But holistically it holds true. I’ve seen my share of people transition roles and departments at work and sometimes the person just sucks in the new team. Just imagine if mobs of 343 employees were asked to help make one of the COD games. Yikes.

I think the Microsoft branding can hurt Activision games for gamers that simply don’t like MS for whatever reason. It could be as simple as some people seeing MS and it reminds them of Ballmer and Windows. No matter how successful Xbox or MS gaming branding ever gets they will always have an image of business and MS Office kind of stuff.

If you think of it, out of all software and electronics companies that make games or phones or computers etc… MS in my opinion is by far the most corporate and office building kind of image.
 

Gamerguy84

Member
Whats crazy for me on a personal level is a very long time ago i was joking 100% and asked "is MS going to buy gaming". That was way before zenimax.

The crazy part is that it was the question to be asking and the answer is yes.

MS really wants Sony place in the market and it sounds personal to them now. As crszy as this whole thing has gotten its beyond busines and numbers. Even Peter Moore will admit that.
 

Three

Member
Minecraft isnt a good example because the creator only agreed to the sale if MS kept Minecraft on everyhting,including future Minecraft games.
That was his stipulation to the sale. 'I made Minecraft for everyone to enjoy' was one of his statements at the time over this.
I've heard this several times including people mentioning it during the acquisition but there is never a source for the info provided.
 

Stuart360

Member
I've heard this several times including people mentioning it during the acquisition but there is never a source for the info provided.
I dont think it was 'officially' confirmed at the time (talks for these kind of deals are behind closed doors obviously), but thats what indsutry people were saying at the time of the buy, including Shreer. Pretty sure the dev has mentioned it in interviews later as well. The dev def did say in his statement at the time something along the lines of 'I made Minecraft for everyone, and it will still be available to everyone with this deal'. Maybe try Googling it.
 
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Three

Member
I dont think it was 'officially' confirmed at the time (talks for these kind of deals are behind closed doors obviously), but thats what indsutry people were saying at the time of the buy, including Shreer. Pretty sure the dev has mentioned it in interviews later as well. The dev def did say in his statement at the time something along the lines of 'I made Minecraft for everyone, and it will still be available to everyone with this deal'. Maybe try Googling it.
That's what I have trouble finding. A source even if it's just a shierer tweet or Notch interview. I've never seen it when it was mentioned and can't seem to find anything on it.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
To the posters revelling in the thought of Xbox pulling this game from PS, I’ll be keeping an eye out for your comments when Sony inevitably buy someone like From Soft or Capcom and pull the games from Xbox. Somehow I think there will be a huge tonal shift, but we’ll see.
 
I disagree. Offering it through the cloud is worse than taking it away completely. At least no one is getting ripped off if its taken away completely.

Some games might be fine for cloud gaming. COD is not one of them. Anyone on this forum should know that.
I'd pay to play COD On the cloud if I can be the only red ping in the game and ruin everybody elses game. I want to make everyone use a uav to see me and nobody can find me because my COD CLOUD is always pulling a houdini.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
It's not the same thing, if you truly believe that than your bias runs deep.

because you fail to see the diff between a game that sells 20 million yearly versus a game that sells 5-7 million max every 4-7 years.

Small brain thinking.

So, if something affects more people...then it matters?

When it comes down to it, it's the same thing.

Those 5 to 7 million will be more hyped for a game that comes out once every 5 to 7 years I bet.

Let's just agree it's shit all around. Xbox fans will never get a sunset overdrive 2...etc...its the way it is.

Yes, COD is a huge franchise and does have the gravitas to sway people's purchasing decisions but so does final fantasy. Not to the dame scale in numbers of population but I would say those final fantasy fans are still big fans and it's a much longer running franchise.

I'm not saying the cod thing isn't shit but if people really want to play cod they'll play it.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
To the posters revelling in the thought of Xbox pulling this game from PS, I’ll be keeping an eye out for your comments when Sony inevitably buy someone like From Soft or Capcom and pull the games from Xbox. Somehow I think there will be a huge tonal shift, but we’ll see.

No but that's fine because playstation fans just love those games and they never really sold that much on xbox anyway. It's gone to the platform it deserves to be on.....

...even though call of duty 2 pretty much made the 360 launch and cods rise to fame was on the xbox platform. Sony bought the cod rights on ps4 to change the narrative which worked to an extent but cod still sells massively on xbox and not far off playstation numbers especially when taking the platform split into consideration.

Yes call of duty is well established and enjoyed success on xbox and playstation 2 bur it wasn't until modern warfare that it really took off and that was 360 hype.
 

Mr Reasonable

Completely Unreasonable
No see those cases were different because.....

because you fail to see the diff between a game that sells 20 million yearly versus a game that sells 5-7 million max every 4-7 years.

Small brain thinking.

I guess the question is then, what's the maximum size a game can be before it becomes unreasonable for a platform holder to secure exclusivity. Is that where we are?

Is it up to 5-7 million every 4 years? Is that the rule? 8 million every 4 years is a problem - that shouldn't be allowed?

I think this is getting silly now. Well, got silly quite a long time ago.
 
I don't think anyone here will bite.....but I will try anyway.

People that want the deal to go through (whatever your reasons might be), make an argument about why it would be BAD (if it went through).

People that don't want the deal to go through or are concerned about what it could mean, make an argument about why it would be GOOD (if it went through).

Make a decent effort of doing this, if you are going to try. :D
The only reason I want the deal to go through is to replay a lot of those games through GamePass

i think those games will be a shell of themselves IF the deal goes through and they all head to GamePass and become a MS exclusive

I want to see the PS player base stay with these games
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The only reason I want the deal to go through is to replay a lot of those games through GamePass

Even with "sales" some of the 360 era CoD's are selling at $15 to $20. It's kinda high and I'm not going to repay that much lol, but I would love to replay some of those campaigns too.

To the posters revelling in the thought of Xbox pulling this game from PS, I’ll be keeping an eye out for your comments when Sony inevitably buy someone like From Soft or Capcom and pull the games from Xbox. Somehow I think there will be a huge tonal shift, but we’ll see.


I can't speak for everyone, but I'm 100% expecting Sony to do that if they buy a major studio. If Sony buys Squre Enix, you can essentially kiss any game from them, even the weird ones like Stranger of Paradise, coming to Xbox for good.
 
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Neofire

Member
To the posters revelling in the thought of Xbox pulling this game from PS, I’ll be keeping an eye out for your comments when Sony inevitably buy someone like From Soft or Capcom and pull the games from Xbox. Somehow I think there will be a huge tonal shift, but we’ll see.
Keep waiting on that, last I checked Destiny 2 is still on the Xbox 👀. As for pulling games from platforms didn't MS do with Starfield and the Next Elder scrolls after acquiring Bethesda? Starfield i know was previously going to come to playstation before the acquisition.
The only reason I want the deal to go through is to replay a lot of those games through GamePass

i think those games will be a shell of themselves IF the deal goes through and they all head to GamePass and become a MS exclusive

I want to see the PS player base stay with these games
Boy talk about having your cake while eating it to. You want things to stay the same but want it on GP. You want MS to shell out all that money but also give the same benefits for the competition that it's platforms will get.

It isn't adding up my guy.
 
Keep waiting on that, last I checked Destiny 2 is still on the Xbox 👀. As for pulling games from platforms didn't MS do with Starfield and the Next Elder scrolls after acquiring Bethesda? Starfield i know was previously going to come to playstation before the acquisition.

Boy talk about having your cake while eating it to. You want things to stay the same but want it on GP. You want MS to shell out all that money but also give the same benefits for the competition that it's platforms will get.

It isn't adding up my guy.
Its not giving the competition the same benefits if its on Gamepass plus it adds up much better keeping Sony playerbase money infow coming into Acti
 
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GruntosUK

Member
So Jim Ryan has until 2025 with existing agreements and MS offered another 3 on top of that bringing it to 2028. So basically the entire PS5 generation is covered, yet he publicly complains.

I think this is Microsoft's plan. You're not going to win many PlayStation users over by taking away their favourite franchise (CoD has much more mainstream appeal than Bethesda's stuff), and a lot will have already bought their consoles and don't want another. But next-gen when people are out to buy the new consoles and CoD is on Xbox only, then they'll persuade people to move over. It's a waiting game in my opinion and the deal really benefits Microsoft as much as Sony if that's the case.
 
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Neofire

Member
Its not giving the competition the same benefits if its on Gamepass plus it adds up much better keeping Sony playerbase money infow coming into Acti
So the Xbox users being able to play the game for a few dollars vs Playstation owners paying full price isn't a benefit? Whether you think it's about that or not is irrelevant as this buy out is about brining these games to GP to give them an advantage for their users.
 
So the Xbox users being able to play the game for a few dollars vs Playstation owners paying full price isn't a benefit? Whether you think it's about that or not is irrelevant as this buy out is about brining these games to GP to give them an advantage for their users.
It will for sure be a benefit to players like me who own all the platforms plus pay for Gamepass but there is a huge amount of players who just buy the yearly releases like Fifa, NBA 2k and COD and imo just putting it on Gamepass wont cause those people to start buying Gamepass

Its a debate that can go back and forth and you wont change my mind how I feel about it nor will I change yours

In the end I honestly wont lose any sleep over this deal if it does or does not go through

The only difference it will make for me is do I play COD on PS5 or my Series X and most likely it will be on Xbox because of the elite controllers I own.

Now if Sony would get that new pro style controller out the door that could change my thinking
 

PuffyCan

Member
It will for sure be a benefit to players like me who own all the platforms plus pay for Gamepass but there is a huge amount of players who just buy the yearly releases like Fifa, NBA 2k and COD and imo just putting it on Gamepass wont cause those people to start buying Gamepass

Its a debate that can go back and forth and you wont change my mind how I feel about it nor will I change yours

In the end I honestly wont lose any sleep over this deal if it does or does not go through

The only difference it will make for me is do I play COD on PS5 or my Series X and most likely it will be on Xbox because of the elite controllers I own.

Now if Sony would get that new pro style controller out the door that could change my thinking
Didn't they just annonce a new controller?
Dualsense Edge

on topic: I believe having cod on gamepass would bring more people in, can't see why it wouldn't.
 
To the posters revelling in the thought of Xbox pulling this game from PS, I’ll be keeping an eye out for your comments when Sony inevitably buy someone like From Soft or Capcom and pull the games from Xbox. Somehow I think there will be a huge tonal shift, but we’ll see.
We're used to PS blocking everything :messenger_beaming: not a big deal as long as all the games come to PC.
 
To the posters revelling in the thought of Xbox pulling this game from PS, I’ll be keeping an eye out for your comments when Sony inevitably buy someone like From Soft or Capcom and pull the games from Xbox. Somehow I think there will be a huge tonal shift, but we’ll see.

But I am with you.
Both side are bending over backwards, fucking annoying.
 

sainraja

Member
I think this is Microsoft's plan. You're not going to win many PlayStation users over by taking away their favourite franchise (CoD has much more mainstream appeal than Bethesda's stuff), and a lot will have already bought their consoles and don't want another. But next-gen when people are out to buy the new consoles and CoD is on Xbox only, then they'll persuade people to move over. It's a waiting game in my opinion and the deal really benefits Microsoft as much as Sony if that's the case.
That is assuming MS can convince them to play games outside of COD. To play COD right now, they only have to pay $70 or about $5.84 a month if you really want to look at it like a sub

LOL, not sure why I responded with the above to you. If they simply pull it next-gen, then that can work in MS's favor if a few other things in the market don't change. We shall see.

So the Xbox users being able to play the game for a few dollars vs Playstation owners paying full price isn't a benefit? Whether you think it's about that or not is irrelevant as this buy out is about brining these games to GP to give them an advantage for their users.
Most people that only play a single game might not be so quick to jump over to a recurring subscription — they can pay $10-$15 a month which equals $120/$180 a year depending on which plan they go with OR they can simply pay $70 dollars which equals $5.84 a month. The value prop of Game Pass is access to a variety of games. The cost of entry for those people is less if they simply buy COD to play. I don't know why people are overlooking this aspect. It will be interesting to see what they actually do when this does come to pass.

I think it is foolish to argue that price is going to be BIG factor why people might switch over. They are basically subscribing to yearly COD right now and they basically have to pay $70 a year.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
I can't speak for everyone, but I'm 100% expecting Sony to do that if they buy a major studio. If Sony buys Squre Enix, you can essentially kiss any game from them, even the weird ones like Stranger of Paradise, coming to Xbox for good.

True. The big tonal shift there would be that the inevitable would be clear to everyone from the beginning, regardless of the game or situation.
 

phil_t98

Member
To the posters revelling in the thought of Xbox pulling this game from PS, I’ll be keeping an eye out for your comments when Sony inevitably buy someone like From Soft or Capcom and pull the games from Xbox. Somehow I think there will be a huge tonal shift, but we’ll see.

End of the day Sony could buy somebody like EA and that’s their counter to this. Just means people have to buy both consoles.

What I will say with Microsoft’s gamepass model it’s the more consumer friendly of the two.

Would you expect Sony to offer to keep the games on Xbox if they did buy somebody like EA or Capcom? Like Microsoft is offering with call of duty? something like Street fighter or Fifa that's traditionally multi console
 
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End of the day Sony could buy somebody like EA and that’s their counter to this. Just means people have to buy both consoles.

What I will say with Microsoft’s gamepass model it’s the more consumer friendly of the two.
To me the scariest thing to all this buying entire publishers is (worst case scenario here) Apple decides to drop into this battle with a $1000 console and buys a couple of monster publishers and makes them exclusive there and so on
 

phil_t98

Member
To me the scariest thing to all this buying entire publishers is (worst case scenario here) Apple decides to drop into this battle with a $1000 console and buys a couple of monster publishers and makes them exclusive there and so on

I honestly can’t see that happening, as good as apple products can be I don’t think the mass market for £1000 console is there. If it was then Sony and Microsoft would be all over it. Apple have the power to buy the publishers but when you look at the movie business apple have their own streaming service but don’t as of yet own any big studio.

So don’t see it with a publisher, after all they have game capable hardware in their macs but haven’t made the move.
 
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I honestly can’t see that happening, as good as apple products can be I don’t think the mass market for £1000 console is there. If it was then Sony and Microsoft would be all over it. Apple have the power to buy the publishers but when you look at the movie business apple have their own streaming service but don’t as of yet own any big studio.

So don’t see it with a publisher, after all they have game capable hardware in their macs but haven’t made the move.
I agree I don't see Apple doing this but throw things out like the only place to play the next GTA is on Meta VR, just scenarios like this go through my head that this opens the door to
 

phil_t98

Member
I agree I don't see Apple doing this but throw things out like the only place to play the next GTA is on Meta VR, just scenarios like this go through my head that this opens the door to

its gonna be interesting the landscape after the ( if ) the deal goes through. will Sony bankroll a big buyout like this or still keep doing what they are doing
 

DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
its gonna be interesting the landscape after the ( if ) the deal goes through. will Sony bankroll a big buyout like this or still keep doing what they are doing
I don't see a scenario where Sony buys a major publisher like MS has done especially when they can secure exclusives by simply paying a developer to not release an Xbox version of a game. It's OK for each platform holder to do their own thing.

I can at least appreciate that MS is hiring more talent when they pick up more studios and that is a far bigger investment than just blocking content on other platforms. In the case of Activision the culture of the company needed a major change and the MS acquisition will go a long way to improving things for the people working there. This goes far beyond just taking something from PlayStation.
 

sainraja

Member
True. The big tonal shift there would be that the inevitable would be clear to everyone from the beginning, regardless of the game or situation.
Yup, well, not sure what you mean by 'tonal' shift, but yes it will be clear — just like it has been clear from the get go that Bungie games will remain available on all platforms — current and future. So if they were to do the opposite, we'd know. No guessing. No word play. However, we should not dismiss the fact that Bungie is the first studio Sony has got that had IPs on other platforms.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
Yup — just like it has been clear from the get go that Bungie games will remain available on all platforms — current and future.

We'll see how it plays out. I base my opinions on the behaviors we have seen in practice, not the talk of future things.
 
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GreatnessRD

Member
Never thought I'd see the day a big corporation like Sony would act like straight bitches. Hardcore fanboys of Sony should be emFUCKINGbarrassed.

Jimbo should be spending this time trying to find a publisher Developer that may can align with his COD godlike vision and throw some R&D their way instead of crying like a bitch. This is truly pathetic, lol.
 
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