IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
A PC version would be benefit for the success of the game I think.
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Pogomix: Dreams is so powerful it's absurd
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
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A PC version would be benefit for the success of the game I think.
MvCSpiderman
Banned
So Dreams failed like that Microsoft game right?
Nobody wants game creation software on consoles, look at RPG maker. They need to be on PC to succeed.
Nobody wants game creation software on consoles, look at RPG maker. They need to be on PC to succeed.
Unknown?
Member
Well it's still being supported so I wouldn't say it failed.
ZehDon
Gold Member
How many copies has Dreams sold so far in comparison to Media Molecule's previous games?
Why would he know that? His only point was it's being supported and wasn't shut down like project spark.
ZehDon
Gold Member
Cool. So, how many copies has Dreams sold so far in comparison to Media Molecule's previous games?
No idea but don't see the relevance or care to look for you.
ZehDon
Gold Member
You can't see the relevance of game sales in terms of a game being a failure? Might wanna look into that.
Spidey Fan
Banned
I think that won't matter. This is a learning software. Its more for collecting data. Sony would have pulled the plug, if they only cared about data sales of software.
The benefits is seeing new talents and developers make insane games on the software. This way, you can either scoop a talented person, or have enough data for creating certain environments.
We have seen some impressive demos created using dream. Last one I saw was on gameranx.
I bought the game, I might check it. Its nice to have community games.
I hope they port to steam. We have highly talented people, who would elevate dream to a higher level. Skyrim showed us, what people can do, if you give them the games tool, to mod it. There are insane 4k gameplay skyrim, but its mostly walking.
Here are some skyrim mods
Dream can hit that level, if its on steam.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
These kinds of games are always best suited for the PC crowd as that's where the market is for creative communities, mods, m/kb gameplay for fine controls.
When you think consoles, I don't think the typical gamer correlates the hardware to Minecraft, Mario Maker, Dreams, Project Spark and any other content making game. Game making and creativity is more of a PC thing. It's like if you never knew which platform the follow games were on but saw them in videos and had to guess which platform Factorio, creative sims, Roblox, Minecraft are for? I bet most of you would say these look like PC centric games.
Sony likely make LBP/Dreams for the console crowd in hopes these games are a big enough pull to get PC gamers to go PS.
When you think consoles, I don't think the typical gamer correlates the hardware to Minecraft, Mario Maker, Dreams, Project Spark and any other content making game. Game making and creativity is more of a PC thing. It's like if you never knew which platform the follow games were on but saw them in videos and had to guess which platform Factorio, creative sims, Roblox, Minecraft are for? I bet most of you would say these look like PC centric games.
Sony likely make LBP/Dreams for the console crowd in hopes these games are a big enough pull to get PC gamers to go PS.
ZehDon
Gold Member
I doubt any of this is true, to be honest. Sony isn't playing 4D Chess with Dreams to poach up-and-coming talent, and they're certainly not using the "data for creating certain environment" - that doesn't even really make sense. People will make good stuff in Dreams, no doubt, but no one is going to create The Next Big Thing on a game-as-a-platform if that platform is tiny. There's no incentive. This isn't the PC space, where Mods gave birth to Counter-Strike and DOTA, both of which were Mods created for games with absolutely insane install bases (Half-Life and Warcraft III). You use Skyrim as an example; Skyrim Mods are huge because Skyrim is huge. It's sold something like 30 million copies - it's a monster platform for creating new projects on. Dreams is a niche last-gen title that is simply too niche for the vast, vast majority - hence my question: how any copies has it sold? If the install base just isn't there, I doubt talent people who want to be noticed will waste years of their lives building amazing projects that no one will play.
Spidey Fan
Banned
Skyrim wasn't used for mod, because it sold 30m. It was used as a mod, because the game allows free control to change the game.
Talent poach are a thing. Bioware had a meeting with mass effect series, and consulted them how to improve the game. What other features are people interested in. These were valuable information for them, when they made the remastered version.
These guys with their talents benefits the studio in the future.
Only Sony knows the future of dream. We can all speculate now.
Need to sleep now. Bye.
Why don't you look that up yourself considering you are adamant. A game selling less than a previous unrelated game from a studio doesn't make a game a failure. Shutting down the game is a clear sign of one though.
ZehDon
Gold Member
Because I'm not commenting on the game's success or failure? I'm making a simple statement: Media Molecule has previously made games, like the LBP series, which highlighted custom content as a central pillar of their design and appeal. Dreams shares that pillar - so If Dreams is selling less than those games, it's easy enough to say that Dreams has not been successful. This is not a controversial approach by any means.
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The LBP series continues and a new IP was created. If it sells less than the successful IP it doesn't make it a failure. Not saying it is or isn't because I don't know their projected numbers.
you however are deflecting by bringing up LBP when somebody said the game isn't a failure like project spark because unlike it MM is still up and running and dreams continues to get updates and support. Sales comparisons to LBP are irrelevant.
ZehDon
Gold Member
"Deflecting"... by talking about the game that the thread is discussing, talking about the previous games by the developers of the game that the thread is discussing, and not talking about an unrelated game on an entirely different platform that the developers had nothing to do with?
What?
Project Spark was a sales failure and was treated accordingly. What, exactly, would you like me to say about it, and why? This is starting to feel like console war nonsense - gotta defend "Dreams" and make sure everyone knows Microsoft's failed game of a similar ilk, Project Spark, failed.
Follow the conversation
Person 1: dreams failed like project spark right?
Person 2: dreams is still supported so didn't fail like it.
You: what was the sales of dreams compared to LBP?
Ok buddy, if you think you're taking the conversation to its logical conclusion more power to you.
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ZehDon
Gold Member
What kind of gaslighting is this - it's an entirely logical question. In what world is it not? That you're attempting to present "How did Media Molecule's current game sell in comparison to their previous games?" as something unbelievable and outlandish is nonsense.
Kenpachii
Member
Did anything other then jank ever came out of dreams? any must play games? i heard nothing about it, when i google u just see the worst of the worst indie trash has to offer and even worse then that.
It's all "concepts" or u can walk around in this world with 4 attacks yay type of things, with assets straight ripped of your favorite engine.
Honestly the only thing u ever see from dreams is devs shouting how powerful the software is, how great it is, and how revolutionairy it is. Yet when u look in the reality, nobody has it on its radar or cares.
This is the problem with game maker software, specially ones that generate u absolutely no money ( nobody will invest into it ) or doesn't have a fandom attached towards it that want to push the already in place idea's forwards like with skyrim.
Dreams feels goalless, feels like it has nothing to show for it. Feels handicapped by not being able to sell your games = bye anybody that wants to make a actual game in it, and limited to probably the worst platform u could imagine for these type of things, even switch would probably be a better solution.
It's all "concepts" or u can walk around in this world with 4 attacks yay type of things, with assets straight ripped of your favorite engine.
Honestly the only thing u ever see from dreams is devs shouting how powerful the software is, how great it is, and how revolutionairy it is. Yet when u look in the reality, nobody has it on its radar or cares.
This is the problem with game maker software, specially ones that generate u absolutely no money ( nobody will invest into it ) or doesn't have a fandom attached towards it that want to push the already in place idea's forwards like with skyrim.
Dreams feels goalless, feels like it has nothing to show for it. Feels handicapped by not being able to sell your games = bye anybody that wants to make a actual game in it, and limited to probably the worst platform u could imagine for these type of things, even switch would probably be a better solution.
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It's not outlandish or unbelievable. It's just completely irrelevant as I pointed out already. You asked a random member this question when they were pointing out dreams is getting updates and support and so isn't like the other game mentioned.
It's pretty clear your question was rhetorical too so don't talk to me about gaslighting. Look it up yourself if you care. All I'm saying is I don't see the relevance and that game sales of other successful IPs don't paint one as a failure otherwise every Take Two game is a failure except GTA. Now if you really care about the question google it yourself and draw whatever conclusion that makes you happy.
ZehDon
Gold Member
Yeah, I'm gonna stop replying to you after this post, you're stopped even trying to hide the disingenuous nature of your rhetoric.
To correct you, Take Two are a publisher, not a developer, and they don't publish any other game like GTA for comparison that aren't made by Rockstar - the developer of GTA... whose games are always compared to GTA's in terms of success. Meanwhile Media Molecule, the developer of Dreams, are not a publisher and they've spent multiple console generations making several games with similar custom-content focus such as Dreams - so there's multiple fitting comparisons from the same developer on the same platform in the same genre we can use as a yardstick. Best of luck.
No shit Take two are a publisher, but did you know MM didn't make all the LBPs either and the IP is owned by the publisher? So again with the irrelevant stuff. I tell you that success of a game is irrelevant to what a dev has made before and only based on their projections for that game and all you can come up with is Take Two is a publisher. Bye, best of luck to you too.
Alx
Member
Project Spark released on PC too, it didn’t help.
killatopak
Member
I think it makes sense for Dreams to release on PC.
I think the thing that’s holding them back is compatibility with PS4/PS5 content with PC content and vice versa.
I think the thing that’s holding them back is compatibility with PS4/PS5 content with PC content and vice versa.
EDMIX
Member
Not really.
The generation just started, how do you know it won't have a PS5 version later down the road?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I think Media Molecule have went too far in making this amazing, yet too complicated "engine". LittleBigPlanet was so accessible and was easy to use, hard to master. Dreams is just too complicated.
They need LittleBigPlanet 4 but 3D this time with a 2D option like Sackboy A Big Adventure.
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Shmunter
Member
Why not quote my entire post. What are ya CNN?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
.MaxwellParrish
Member
I don't think Is telling at all. What do you expect from a PS5 patch ? Dreams already allow you to create experience extremely more complex on a PS5 then onthe Ps4. This experience, of players on a Ps4, would run at an awful frame rate. Of corse, the software could utilize the Power of a PS5 in more interesting way, but this would require much more then a simple patch, fondamentally a Dreams 2
Seems as of Gamescom 2010, Little Big Planet 1 sold 4.5 million copies. Going by the MMDreamQueen page in the dreamiverse, which I believe all new players automatically follow for Dreams content, has about 1.6 million followers, suggesting about that many sales.
EDMIX
Member
The rest of your post doesn't see the future so.....lol
It simply doesn't matter. I don't see anything "telling" here.
The generation just started, you know not of when they will remaster, update, make a next gen version, Dreams 2, Dreams 2.0 etc.
Nothing is telling here as why the fuck would they need to do it RIGHT NOW to give you an answer about the whole gen to really be saying stuff like "telling"? lol For all we know that shit gets remastered next gen or has a PSVR2 component etc. Who knows, but not enough time has really passed to really be making it sound like them not doing it RIGHT NOW means something. We've seen remaster deep into generations, it means whats happening right now doesn't really give much answers, if anything Sony even talking about Dreams and the PS5 shows they are very much ok supporting it long term. Nothing else in your post really answers any of this btw.
Doesn't really give any details as to why this would be "telling" less then a year after PS5's release. We've seen ports and remasters deep into generations before, so I don't see what is telling. For all we know Sony is updating based on what they have ready to be updated.
Shmunter
Member
But that’s the essence of my post, it’s telling - but could be totally random just as much. Hence I cancel out my premise making my post entirely useless in the first place.
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Shmunter
Member
There’s more content on there than I care to check out. It all comes down to quality over quantity.
The engine is great, but it’s no AAA basis that’s for sure. I finished media molecules own game and it’s very pretty, but the gameplay is still janky. There seem to be limitations to what can be achieved.
Hope I’m wrong and there is more untapped potential.
ZywyPL
Banned
That's the point, PC community with M+K is what would bring a ton of quality content, that's the kind of creative community who enjoys such tools and spends weeks, months or even years on a project, instead of something that's been slapped together in just a few hours max like the console players do.
TheDreadBaron
Member
Dreams would be fine on PC, it would work fine. But y'all have no imagination!
The experience of dreams is a totally fluid seamless creation environment with all your tools at your fingertips. You never get interrupted by bullshit like you do with every single piece of PC software I've ever used. If you haven't actually played Dreams (which it seems like most of the people posting probably haven't) then none of this will make sense because software is software and it PC is the best platform. The PC is great for many many things but Dreams is built to work on a Playstation with a controller as your primary input device and it's more fun and fluid to create in than any piece of PC software I'm aware of. There's a lot of quirky things about it that are special and tied to the platform it's on, and the most special thing is that you can always boot it up zero problems zero crashing, create for hours at a time without interrupting your flow, and share it with a whole community that's into the same shit. It wouldn't be the same on PC, you know not what you ask.
The experience of dreams is a totally fluid seamless creation environment with all your tools at your fingertips. You never get interrupted by bullshit like you do with every single piece of PC software I've ever used. If you haven't actually played Dreams (which it seems like most of the people posting probably haven't) then none of this will make sense because software is software and it PC is the best platform. The PC is great for many many things but Dreams is built to work on a Playstation with a controller as your primary input device and it's more fun and fluid to create in than any piece of PC software I'm aware of. There's a lot of quirky things about it that are special and tied to the platform it's on, and the most special thing is that you can always boot it up zero problems zero crashing, create for hours at a time without interrupting your flow, and share it with a whole community that's into the same shit. It wouldn't be the same on PC, you know not what you ask.
Wouldn't it also be fair to judge success based on the product itself, in relation to what it it tries achieve?
ZehDon
Gold Member
It depends on the type of success one is trying to measure. Financial, critical, public opinion; there are many kinds of success. In terms of a game that focuses on community created content, however, the size of that community is a fairly reasonable measure of its success, I feel.
Agreed.
But sales would be 100% financial, right? I don't know if you play it yourself, but as of right now the community life in Dreams is pretty good. Making it bigger wouldn't necessarily make it 'better'.
ZehDon
Gold Member
Not quite; sales aren't all for the same price, so it only paints part of the picture for financials. Sales is a useful metric for relation to the size of a community for paid titles, however. Community focused titles with small communities typically don't last long, because small communities lack the larger player pool needed to sustain the necessary content creation to keep players attached. Its usually a small fraction number of players making the high quality content. But if its only being played by the same few players, the creators will move on to titles with larger communities so their efforts are enjoyed. This isn't a uniquely "Dreams" issue; it's the same for every game with custom content. But most of those titles are on the PC, where as players in this thread have pointed out, they can absolutely thrive.
Okay, I'm just pointing out that right now, the community is alive, well and productive. Whether or not it is big enough to sustain itself, time will tell. How big is the dreams community? I don't have the means to tell whether its size is good or bad, maybe you can help.
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Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
ZehDon
Gold Member
Cool. And no, I can't sorry, that's why I asked the question in my first post.
skit_data
Member
I don’t understand why they won’t realease this on PC.
It’s like releasing a RTS game only on console in terms of controls.
This should’ve been a PC release long before Days Gone, Horizon ZD or Uncharted 4. Lunacy IMO.
Edit: Might be worth mentioning that I do own the game on PS4 but the controls were simply too much of a barrier to overcome. Navigating in the menus and in 3d space with only the DS4 was too much, would’ve been much easier with M+KB.
It’s like releasing a RTS game only on console in terms of controls.
This should’ve been a PC release long before Days Gone, Horizon ZD or Uncharted 4. Lunacy IMO.
Edit: Might be worth mentioning that I do own the game on PS4 but the controls were simply too much of a barrier to overcome. Navigating in the menus and in 3d space with only the DS4 was too much, would’ve been much easier with M+KB.
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