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[Lionel Richie]

How? C'mon.

If I buy some consoles and sell them at higher prices on eBay makes it illegal?

Use your head... if you don't buy it at higher prices nobody will sell at higher prices lol
Business 101... offer and demand.

Here in Brazil widespread scalping like mentioned in the OP is very much illegal. Vou falar português porque eu nem saberia como traduzir isso, mas ó o que diz a lei de crimes contra a economia popular:

Art. 2º. São crimes desta natureza:
VIII - celebrar ajuste para impor determinado preço de revenda ou exigir do comprador que não compre de outro vendedor;
IX - obter ou tentar obter ganhos ilícitos em detrimento do povo ou de número indeterminado de pessoas mediante especulações ou processos fraudulentos ("bola de neve", "cadeias", "pichardismo" e quaisquer outros equivalentes).

Isso sem falar que o código civil veda explicitamente o enriquecimento ilícito. É que a gente toma no cu de outras formas.

 

[LordCBH]

I mean scalpers are garbage, but no. The onus should be on the stores to come up with systems that don’t reward scalpers.

Now are we talking about essential goods like medicine and food? If so fuck scalpers. But PS5s and 3080s aren’t essential.

 

[Rodolink]

its really infuriating indeed but its just people taking advantage of the situation. if people were patient and if we controlled more our emotions (not letting hype get in the way) there wouldn't be scalpers.
companies wouldn't do limited runs, there wouldn't even be marketing.
but thats not happening.
best solution would be a middle ground where ppl could only buy 3 units ie.

 

[Soulja]

No, If its for a luxury item.

Idiots are happy to pay Nike £100 for a pair of trainers that cost £3 thus making the millionaire shareholders richer but people don't want to see your average Joe make a couple of extra £100.

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

Mmmmmmmm... As much as I hate it, no, I don't think it should be illegal. HOWEVER, I do think it should be legal to punch a scalper in the dick/cunt.

 

[KingT731]

so scalping shouldn't be illegal but you support private efforts to avoid it?
why ?
one is the state saying you can't do it, one is a private entity making so that you can't.
result is the same.

personally it's one of those things that i think should be illegal, but they technically are not and there are not many legal "levers" to sue to make it so

Because that would have ramifications outside of gaming. The issue is bots/scripts designed to snatch up stock.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

I mean hoarding say vegetables or Onions to hike the price in the market is illegal in many countries. Why can't same be implemented to the electronic devices ?

Because people need food to survive. Same for life saving medicine (in most countries atleast). You don't need a PS5 or XSEX to survive.

 

[Neff]

Of course not, but suppliers of commonly scalped goods should be encouraged to identify and block obvious scalpers.

Anti-bot screening should be much, much more effective than it is.

 

[junguler]

no, everyone should have the courage and fortitude not enable them tho.

 

[Chastten]

For medicine, or other important stuff? Absolutely.

For videogames or hobby related stuff? Hell no. If people are dumb enough to pay €1000 for a PS5 because they can't wait another 2 months to play a remake of an 11 year old game, than hey, let 'em do it. There's no actual harm done. I mean, I'm pretty sure you'll survive using your 2080Ti for a few more months, 5 frames less in Counterstrike won't kill you.

 

[Hunnybun]

There are zero scalpers who pay taxes.

"Well they'd be legit, if they didn't commit this major crime" is not how being legit works lol

Fine me a scalper with a real return policy too.. that is not legal in the UK lol

They aren't selling slaves or murdering anyone.. but they are not "legit" businesses. It's the wrong word to use.

If they're evading tax that's illegal because tax evasion is illegal.

Scalping, as in buying to sell at a profit, is not illegal.

You're just conflating 2 independent activities.

Same goes for a return policy or whatever. I'm actually not sure what the law says on that, but again: not relevant. The relevant point is that if they scapled the goods AND obeyed the applicable trading laws, the business is legitimate. The scalping itself is legitimate.

 

[bajouras]

I mean if they sell like loads of them without giving recipt, not paying taxes on the reselling price or even declaring the earnings... isn't that already illegal in several countries?

 

[Jack Videogames]

 

[Mokus]

Consoles are not on the list of vital necessities to be considered illegal for scalping. And in my opinion it would be stupid to. You won't die for waiting a little longer for your desired product. Other people can only dream for a PS5 but they can not afford it even after a year of savings.

What is illegal in any country and most likely al scalpers do, not to declare your profit/income to the proper authorities so you to pay the necessary taxes. If you really want to go after scalpers, find them and report them.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Absolutely not. There are implications waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond your ability to get a PS5.

 

[GloveSlap]

It's been said before, but these bots have got to go. Does Captcha type stuff even work against bots anymore? If so, maybe sites can do something like that for certain items.

 

[brian0057]

Now are we talking about essential goods like medicine and food? If so fuck scalpers.

Because people need food to survive. Same for life saving medicine (in most countries atleast). You don't need a PS5 or XSEX to survive.

For medicine, or other important stuff? Absolutely.

TIL declaring something a "necessity" automatically makes it inmune to the law of supply and demand.
Basic economics should be a required subject in high school.

 

[IntentionalPun]

If they're evading tax that's illegal because tax evasion is illegal.

Scalping, as in buying to sell at a profit, is not illegal.

You're just conflating 2 independent activities.

Same goes for a return policy or whatever. I'm actually not sure what the law says on that, but again: not relevant. The relevant point is that if they scapled the goods AND obeyed the applicable trading laws, the business is legitimate. The scalping itself is legitimate.

No; I said there are no legitimate scalpers, because there aren't, because none of them pay taxes or follow other laws.

Pretty simple stuff; is it possible to be e legitimate scalper? Sure. Nobody does it though.

 

[Neofire]

Alot of people saying no probably believe colonization was good for everyone lol.

Taking advantage of people's lack of knowledge or situation isn't good guys.

 

[Barnabot]

Here in Brazil widespread scalping like mentioned in the OP is very much illegal. Vou falar português porque eu nem saberia como traduzir isso, mas ó o que diz a lei de crimes contra a economia popular:

Art. 2º. São crimes desta natureza:
VIII - celebrar ajuste para impor determinado preço de revenda ou exigir do comprador que não compre de outro vendedor;
IX - obter ou tentar obter ganhos ilícitos em detrimento do povo ou de número indeterminado de pessoas mediante especulações ou processos fraudulentos ("bola de neve", "cadeias", "pichardismo" e quaisquer outros equivalentes).

Isso sem falar que o código civil veda explicitamente o enriquecimento ilícito. É que a gente toma no cu de outras formas.

We still get fucked this way even when the thing is still wrtten by law by people who love to find loopholes in those laws. On the grey market here some scalpers are selling the PS5 at 3x the MSRP price.

 

[Dargor]

Of course not.

If you're so well off that you're having time to complain about waiting a few months to buy a video game or even "worse", actually not being able to wait and paying a premium to get a console, yeah, things are ok for you and yours.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

TIL declaring something a "necessity" automatically makes it inmune to the law of supply and demand.
Basic economics should be a required subject in high school.

There's a difference between supply and demand and intentionally buying up stock in large quantities for the sole purpose of artificially limiting supply so that you can exploit the continued demand for a product that is no longer available from anyone but you to drive up the price well above actual market value and make rediculous amounts of profit. There's a reason this is illegal when it comes to necessities.
I do however agree that basic economics should be a required subject, one that you seem to be sorely in need of.

 

[michaelius]

No but since they are making profit on it you could report it to proper institution to ensure that all state taxes are paid
That would solve scalping problem much faster.

 

[MrS]

No. Can't knock the hustle.

 

[HE1NZ]

Ignoring the fact that banning scalping is just blatant communism... They do risk their money to offer a service. If you have a lot of money you can overcome the scarcity and buy from a scalper. Blame the manufacturers who's responsible for scarcity.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Alot of people saying no probably believe colonization was good for everyone lol.

Taking advantage of people's lack of knowledge or situation isn't good guys.

It doesn't need to be good for everyone, and if someone is stupid or manchildren enough to pay more than double the price for a gaming console instead of waiting a little bit well then, the jokes on them.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Ignoring the fact that banning scalping is just blatant communism... They do risk their money to offer a service. If you have a lot of money you can overcome the scarcity and buy from a scalper. Blame the manufacturers who's responsible for scarcity.

What risks do scalpers take? lol

Scalpers get the benefit of consumer return policies without ever offering the same policies. They can return stuff for full refund to stores if it doesn't sell, and sell something broken and still take the person's money and tell them to fuck off.

 

[itsArtie]

Am I butthurt that scalpers have multiple consoles and I couldn't get one? Hell yeah.
Should it be illegal? Nope. Let people make money. You are not entitled to get a console. Go complain to websites that allow 1 person to buy 10 consoles.

 

[ethomaz]

Here in Brazil widespread scalping like mentioned in the OP is very much illegal. Vou falar português porque eu nem saberia como traduzir isso, mas ó o que diz a lei de crimes contra a economia popular:

Art. 2º. São crimes desta natureza:
VIII - celebrar ajuste para impor determinado preço de revenda ou exigir do comprador que não compre de outro vendedor;
IX - obter ou tentar obter ganhos ilícitos em detrimento do povo ou de número indeterminado de pessoas mediante especulações ou processos fraudulentos ("bola de neve", "cadeias", "pichardismo" e quaisquer outros equivalentes).

Isso sem falar que o código civil veda explicitamente o enriquecimento ilícito. É que a gente toma no cu de outras formas.

That is the law most judges uses for "cambismo" but it is not a specific law and it is not clear enough... so depends of the judge interpletation.

Due that issue with the law vs "cambismo" it was created a new law in the "Estatudo do Torcedor":

“Art. 41-F. Vender ingressos de evento esportivo, por preço superior ao estampado no bilhete: Pena - reclusão de 1 (um) a 2 (dois) anos e multa.”

But again it only cover Sports events.

Plus there is another law Lei 1521 that says you need to take in accounts additional costs line logistics/locomotion, food, etc... that allow you to add these costs to the ticket (or product being sold).... in that case the ticket/product prices will be way higher than the actual market prices.

Most judges add that law to the process when dealing with "cambistas".... "cambista" had to travel to the place to sell these tickets plus he had to eat/drink, etc.... all these costs makes his ticket higher and so not being illegal.

So Brasil doesn't have a clear law for that.

We still get fucked this way even when the thing is still wrtten by law by people who love to find loopholes in those laws. On the grey market here some scalpers are selling the PS5 at 3x the MSRP price.

It is because that law is not really specific for scalpers... it is only being used in some cases.
There is no law for that in Brasil yet... more close is the "Estatuto do Torcedor" but it is specific to tickets in sport events only and even so it can be used other high tier level laws that allow the scalper to increase the price of the ticket.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

What risks do scalpers take? lol

Further to that...what service are they actually providing? It's not like I have to buy the console through them, if they hadn't bought it from the authorised distributor they would've been happy to sell it to me directly, and for far less than the scalper. At best you could describe scalpers as "middle-men"...but I think even that is a stretch.

 

[deriks]

“The free market is a jungle, it’s beautiful and brutal and should be left alone"
Ron Swanson

 

[IntentionalPun]

Further to that...what service are they actually providing? It's not like I have to buy the console through them, if they hadn't bought it from the authorised distributor they would've been happy to sell it to me directly, and for far less than the scalper. At best you could describe scalpers as "middle-men"...but I think even that is a stretch.

The only "service" is making it "easier" to get something, for an extra cost.

A rich person can attend any concert they want, or buy any product they want, at any time.. because of scalpers.

But the problem is that scalpers also cause some of the scarcity in the first place lol And in general they simply operate outside of any commerce that is actually logical or by design. In typical commerce everyone provides a service, that's why they are used.. companies are welcome to try to sell items direct, and some do.. but they prefer to sell to a distributor who then deals with stores, who then deals with the public.. because all of those people provide a service.

 

[zcaa0g]

I wouldn't mind if the brick and mortar stores only allowed in store purchases of newly debuted consoles for the first 3 months and a limit of one to purchase but that's as far as I would take it.

 

[Senua]

over 100 votes on yes, damn!

 

[Barnabot]

over 100 votes on yes, damn!

guess some people like to be gang banged by both scalpers and the government for the same subject.

 

[Calverz]

No but they should pay tax on profits

 

[reptilex]

Can you list them? I'm fairly sure I don't want to move into civilization by mistake.

That's because you probably live where you belong, my guess would be dumbistan

 

[brian0057]

There's a difference between supply and demand and intentionally buying up stock in large quantities for the sole purpose of artificially limiting supply so that you can exploit the continued demand for a product that is no longer available from anyone but you to drive up the price well above actual market value and make rediculous amounts of profit. There's a reason this is illegal when it comes to necessities.
I do however agree that basic economics should be a required subject, one that you seem to be sorely in need of.

Yeah, if only retailers were able to drive up the price in order to disincentive bulk purchases and to force those that do scalp to compete with them in order to drive the price back down.
Sadly, they can't because it's already illegal in 38 states. You know? That thing you want but now for individual purchases?
Your whole point boils down to "it's unfair"... So? Don't buy from them. Let them take the lose by competing with retailers instead of wanting the big daddy government to screw over the economy because the concept of "life is unfair" is too much for you.

 

[Pakoe]

What a fucking nerd. Imagine being this mad about tech.

 

[brian0057]

It's always fun to watch wine-drinking bourgeoisie pretend to be working-class people so they can accuse the working class of being wine-drinking bourgeoisie.

 

[johntown]

Yes it should be illegal. Scalpers should be jailed. Making money of desperate people is deplorable and the practice should be banned.

 

[THEAP99]

 

[MaestroMike]

Just be patient and wait while Sony makes more product. The best games come out a year or two later anyways. Lot of people are actually being done a favor indirectly.

 

[HE1NZ]

What risks do scalpers take? lol

Scalpers get the benefit of consumer return policies without ever offering the same policies. They can return stuff for full refund to stores if it doesn't sell, and sell something broken and still take the person's money and tell them to fuck off.

Depends on a place maybe. Can't get a refund after 2 weeks in my country.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

Yeah, if only retailers were able to drive up the price in order to disincentive bulk purchases and to force those that do scalp to compete with them in order to drive the price back down.
Sadly, they can't because it's already illegal in 38 states. You know? That thing you want but now for individual purchases?
Your whole point boils down to "it's unfair"... So? Don't buy from them. Let them take the lose by competing with retailers instead of wanting the big daddy government to screw over the economy because the concept of "life is unfair" is too much for you.

I didn't say I was pro-banning them. Infact in the post of mine that you initially replied to I explicitly stated that the reason it shouldn't be illegal is because they're not scalping necessities (which should be illegal because...ya know, people need to buy them, hiked price or not). I just thought you were being far too reductive. Lets not call scalping supply and demand or blame it on that, they're not even remotely the same thing.

 

[dorkimoe]

Lol good god. You people.

 

[brian0057]

(which should be illegal because...ya know, people need to buy them, hiked price or not)

Declaring something a necessity doesn't make it inmune to the laws of supply and demand.
Morality is irrelevant in this situation.

Why price hikes are good:

1. It disincentives those that don't need but want the product and makes them second guess if they actually want it. Thus, supply is conserved for those that do need it.
2. The price increase creates a profit incentive that tells distributers and sellers that the product is in high demand, increasing supply.
3. Even if someone still can't afford the product, said profit incentive creates competition, which drives down the prices for everyone.

You'll never get me to agree with price control in any way, shape, or form.
As a Venezuelan, I've already seen what happens when price gouging is made illegal.
It doesn't end well.

 

[LordCBH]

Alot of people saying no probably believe colonization was good for everyone lol.

Taking advantage of people's lack of knowledge or situation isn't good guys.

People don’t NEED a PS5, Series X, or 3080. If people stop being so thirsty over these goods, then scalpers stop making money on them. Thus, the scalping stops. I remember when scalpers bought up fuck tons of Wii U’s at release and then they couldn’t even give them away.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

Declaring something a necessity doesn't make it inmune to the laws of supply and demand.

Again, there is a difference between supply and demand and scalping. Stop conflating them. A lack of supply to cover demand will drive prices up, yes, but nowhere near as fast or as high as the artificial scarcity tactics employed by scalpers. Secondly would you say that food is not a necessity? What if someone was scalping food just to make a huge profit during a food shortage? Would you be 100% a-okay with not being able to eat because you can't afford to? Like I said, the only reason scalping luxuries should be allowed is because they are luxuries, you have the option of not buying them until the price comes back down.

As a Venezuelan, I've already seen what happens when price gouging is made illegal.
It doesn't end well.

As a Brit I've already seen how making price gouging of necessities in emergencies illegal is a benefit to the people and the economy. Regulating certain undesirable aspects of Capitalism (which do exist) is not Communism.

 

[Enjay]

Yes it should be illegal. The scalpers and the buyers should be heavily fined (since they can clearly afford it.)

Also wtf at everyone saying "we tried making scalping illegal in my house, it didn't work out too well..." acting like it lead to a nuclear attack in their country lol.