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PS4 sold "more than twice as many" units as Xbox One, new court papers show

Dolodolo

Member
Don’t really get this fascination with YouTube views personally. How strong is the correlation to actual sales/interest? Do we have any data?

Animal Crossing had like 4M views on its reveal trailer, sold around 40M copies. Meanwhile Spider-Man has tens of millions of views yet Miles-Morales have ‘only’ sold around 8M (?), despite being multiplatform. Same with R&C Rift Apart which has a reveal trailer of 6M views but sales are only around 1M from what I can tell.

Doesn’t seem like a very good indicator.
It is very easy to assign arguments in your favor.
What does "Total" 8 million copies mean?
You know very well that people now mostly buy games on new hardware.
If you don't believe me, go and look at the sales chart statistics.
Therefore, just in this regard, Miles Morales is a very prolific release.

It's funny to hear about Animal Crossing when this game is literally a switch exclusive, which was promoted by a bunch of people on YouTube, if you simply type a query on YouTube by the number of views.

And it's hypocritical enough to insert here a platform that is literally sold through its games, and the multiplatform there is just a small bonus.




Starfield will have a bunch of other competing content. Switch exclusives have no competing content, basically And if you don't like this view/sales correlation, then show me another one?

It's funny to hear about Ratchet. You understand that this game sold a million copies when the total Ps5 was about 10 million. Don't you think that this is an excellent result in a month. At the same time, it still cost $ 70, from the release. Nothing about this bothers you? And why do you cite Animal Crossing's statistics for his entire life, while Ratchet's is only for a month. Maybe there are already 3 million copies, or even five, but why talk about it, right?
 

Dolodolo

Member
Are you seriously using the court agrument as somthing to strengthen your opinion?

Microsoft have been saying everything they can to make Xbox and COD appear weaker so the acti-blizz deal goes through.
I dont believe in xbox or playstation they are just names, I believe in market realities, the zenimax acquisition is a reality, Ms intending to aquire acti-blizz in the largest deal in the history of the industry... is a reality, Microsoft creating quality hardware is a reality, Microsoft having the best sub service is a reality, Microsoft having there gaming platform connected and available through console, PC and cloud over home and portable devices is a reality.

They are delivering.

And the product is what matters.

This is all you took from your head. And your arguments about sales are so standard that they can be applied to any device, including the Playstation. Once again, on the fingers I explain to you As soon as all the consoles are on the shelves all the time, then it will be possible to make predictions and look at the statistics. For now, it's all just speculation.
 

yazenov

Member
50 million despite all the fire sales every month and being so much cheaper than the PS4 by dropping the Kinect. Yeah, its pretty bad.

Xbox one flopped in unit sales and flopped more in profit. that thing was basically always sold at a discount. No wonder MS hides units sales and profit numbers.

Oh and the "this time will be different" folks are in for a rude awakening and a long generation.
 
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Three

Member
Back then, Gamepass wasn't nearly at the level it is now. As you said, the first day one game only came 4.5 years after Xbox One launch. The first 3rd party day one games arrived in October 2019, roughly six (!) years after Xbox One release. And yes, the gen was actually over by then. Gamepass had little to no impact on that gen.
Does it have more users now, yeah sure. How is this relevant though? You are trying to make it seem like xbox one didn't have gamepass with some excuses.

When gamepass launched it had their big first party games straight from the gate in 2017. Halo 5, all Gears, even BC games like Fable 3, Perfect dark zero. Almost everything they had. Obviously their next major release would be their day one release some date later. Doesn't mean gamepass didn't exist until the gen was essentially over though. It existed through half the gen.
 

Pelta88

Member
Back then, Gamepass wasn't nearly at the level it is now.

What is that level? If you don't mind me asking.

Whenever XB/MS has an opportunity to talk GP numbers, they don't. Particularly in earnings calls when investors are specifically seeking that type of info they talk in PR terms so I'm wondering if you have some additional info or insights.
 
Y'all need to start talking with real people outside gaming forums, damn.

I work within video game retail and speak to plenty of people in my personal life and at work about games.

The Series S is doing incredibly well. We sell plenty of those daily with a game pass subscription. For parents who can't afford to keep buying games it's a no brainer.

That was actually our second just successful product Christmas last year and it was quite close to the switch sales.
 

Dolodolo

Member
Why is that so hard to believe? You clearly don't know me, you've provided nothing to back up your claim? Is it just cool to say that?
Your statements are ridiculous in and of themselves, because we literally don't have anything available for sale other than the Series S.
And even this console, often, I see on some discounts
Anyone can literally buy it, right now, in any online store, or even offline.
The same cannot be said for the Xbox series X and Ps5

You work in the field of trade, and you carry such nonsense, knowing that this is a priori incorrect statistics

Seriously?
 

yazenov

Member
I work within video game retail and speak to plenty of people in my personal life and at work about games.

The Series S is doing incredibly well. We sell plenty of those daily with a game pass subscription. For parents who can't afford to keep buying games it's a no brainer.

That was actually our second just successful product Christmas last year and it was quite close to the switch sales.

Are you in the US by any chance?

Because Xbox outside of the US and UK, Xbox as a brand is basically non existent.

And PS5 has been extremely supply constraint so there is no competition on the next gen front.

Unless MS has an intentional presence outside of these countries, I don't see how they will do better than their previous offerings, unless the US and UK has an exponential increase in population growth during these 5 years.
 
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Does it have more users now, yeah sure. How is this relevant though? You are trying to make it seem like xbox one didn't have gamepass with some excuses.

When gamepass launched it had their big first party games straight from the gate in 2017. Halo 5, all Gears, even BC games like Fable 3, Perfect dark zero. Almost everything they had. Obviously their next major release would be their day one release some date later. Doesn't mean gamepass didn't exist until the gen was essentially over though. It existed through half the gen.
It's not about users, it's about games. Way more games now, way more day one games too. Back when Gamepass started, it was hardly a reason to buy an Xbox. Now it is a very good reason. Big difference.
 

Robb

Gold Member
And if you don't like this view/sales correlation, then show me another one?
I’ll just start with that nothing I wrote was a jab at you, I’m just curious if there is/you know of any data on correlation/causation on this, because I see YouTube views being brought up from time to time and the comparisons usually never make sense to me looking at the actual outcomes in sales. A single video might just start to trend and get a ton of views, but in the end that means nothing.

I just brought up these games as examples of what I’ve seen. If you have more recent data on Ratchet and Clank feel free to share, I just took what I could find on short notice. And I’m sure StarField will get a ton of additional coverage by YouTubers as well closer to release just like AC, so that point feels moot to me.

Nothing you’ve written has convinced me that YouTube views is a good indicator.
 
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SmokedMeat

Gamer™
This is why Microsoft had to shift gears and focus on a subscription service. They weren’t going to beat Sony in a standard console battle. They needed something new to bring to the table.

Only now the wallet has opened up wide and they’ve purchased a lot of big studios and franchises. So I expect the Series Xboxes to outsell the Xbox One, considerably.
 
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spons

Gold Member
If only Microsoft would invest even a single buck in proper localization outside English-speaking countries. The Dutch version of the dashboard is so bad.
"Saving money" on something (e.g. when a game is on sale) is translated from "to save" as in saving a file. How the fuck does shit like this get through QA.
It literally says in the Store on a button when buying a game that you can "save" 30% .
 
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BlackTron

Member
I agree that for MS to sell that many Xbox One systems despite their massive blunders is a testament to the strength of the Xbox brand.

No doubt, they caused damage, but Nintendo can screw up so badly they barely sell more than 10 million while the very next system is over 100.

I think people put too much stock in what happened last-gen. History for the past 30 years shows battle lines changing fast all the time in gaming. Of all 3, I think Sony is in the toughest spot at this moment. Nintendo pivoted completely and MS is literally trying to buy Sony's market. Just going on doing what they've always done may not be enough, even though that's all they needed to do to wipe the floor last time.

If games like COD really ever became exclusive, Sony would be in a position like Nintendo, trying to make a case for you to buy a second/companion system. They NEVER wanted to be there.
 

leo-j

Member
Console war was always an American thing. The US is usually the market that decides the victor. Consoles are the minority in many places compared to PC/Mobile.


MLB 22 is on Xbox/Gamepass. All thats missing is PC.
Not really, Xbox is usually almost as relevant as anyone else in the US. In fact Xbox 360 was ahead of Wii and ps3 for a majority of the gen and still ended up 3rd world wide. I believe 360 outsold ps3 in the US as well.
 
It's crazy that xbox even got within vicinity of Playstation during the 360. I don't think that will ever happen again. Yeah sony will make mistakes but not to such an extent. The mistakes they make these days are nothing compared to then.

What was even more stupid though, was Microsoft throwing away that marketshare and giving it back to sony with the xbox one blunders. Seriously, some of this shit is so bad that it has to be on purpose.
 
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AlexxKidd

Member
Thread title is incorrect. It sold "more than twice as many." This current title implies the Xbox One sold more than 60 million consoles, which of course is false.

https://gameluster.com/court-documents-confirm-xbox-one-sold-less-than-half-ps4-numbers/

The information can be found on page 18 of the Microsoft court papers dated Aug. 9, 2022. The translated line reads “Sony has surpassed Microsoft in terms of console sales and install base, having sold more than twice as many [than] Xbox in the last generation”, from a rough Google translation. A member of GameLuster staff who can read Spanish was able to partially read the Portuguese, and concurs with this translation.

Sony recently released their final PS4 sales figures, confirming 117.2 million sales of the console line, making it the second biggest home console of all time. This means the Xbox One consoles must have sold less than approximately 58.5 million units, which is in line with former industry analysts predictions. This places the Xbox One right below the NES, and just above the SNES.
 
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John Wick

Member
I'd argue Microsoft have dominated mind share for quite some time. Sony have been riding their own coat tails since 2018. They've allowed Microsoft to really grow into the market and made the process of increasing market share much easier.

Your source is nearly a year old, last time i checked PS5 is at 21+million and xbox series at 15million+



In fairness the easily available, £250 brand new Series S model inflates those numbers significantly. If Sony had a cheaper budget PS5 that was less powerful than the main unit and easily available, I'm sure they'd sell gangbusters.
Sony would sell gang busters of the PS5 now if it was widely and easily available. The only reason Sony haven't increased their lead is the supply chain shortages.
 

Javthusiast

Banned
And that’s why Microsoft don’t give numbers anymore.
Dj Khaled Compliment GIF
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
And? releasing near the end of gen when the rest of the consoles sales are slowing and competing with no one else in the handheld market has its benefits. Guess we have to acknowledge it as a consolation prize after the Wii U got completely destroyed. But then again most of the switch library is wii u ports.
*cough* and it's a portable
 

buenoblue

Member
I was under the impression that the Xbox division was profitable for many years now, aside from the new large acquisitions.

I mean the original Xbox surely wasn't profitable. They must of taken a bath on the 360 with all the red ring of death stuff. Xbox one was a distant 3rd in sales. Now series x is a great machine but they can't be making a profit on the box itself considering it's parts. And what are we talking 10-15 million Xbox series sold to date? Offset that to the 100+ billion they have spent on aquisitions, then add on all the money they must be subsidizing for gamepass games. Yeah it doesn't really all add up.

It's like Chelsea football club in the UK. Looks successful from the outside, now we find out the previous owner just ploughed 20 billion of his own money into the club to keep the club going.
 

yurinka

Member
Thought it was over 2x WW?
Yes, it's over 2x but closer to 2x than to 3x.

I thought XBO had sold more but in this interview with Phil Spencer they mention 51 million, which is an estimate (50-51M) that some analysts made months before getting discontinued. So maybe sold a millon or two more. The most recent PS4 number we got is 117.2M.

3x would have been ~153M+, which is in PS2 range and pretty far from the current PS4 numbers.
 
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JCK75

Member
One X was the best console of that generation but it was too little too late..
the One was so horribly underpowered it was kind of sad.
But I did get a One S as it was the cheapest option for a UHD blurayer player at the time.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
One X was the best console of that generation but it was too little too late..
the One was so horribly underpowered it was kind of sad.
But I did get a One S as it was the cheapest option for a UHD blurayer player at the time.
One X would of fared better if it released at the same price as the Pro.
 

Sosokrates

Member
This is all you took from your head. And your arguments about sales are so standard that they can be applied to any device, including the Playstation. Once again, on the fingers I explain to you As soon as all the consoles are on the shelves all the time, then it will be possible to make predictions and look at the statistics. For now, it's all just speculation.

And? Of course its speculation... I never said it wasn't.
 

FergusFrost

Member
One X was the best console of that generation but it was too little too late..
the One was so horribly underpowered it was kind of sad.
But I did get a One S as it was the cheapest option for a UHD blurayer player at the time.

I disagree with the One X thing but I love Coheed.
 
While I think Sony has done a bit better in the games department, Xbox have been releasing some very good stuff too. (Flight sim, infinite, FH5, psychonauts 2)

Sonys current superior mindshare is a result of the PS4s success.
COD is the most popular online game on PS4, once thats on gamepass and Microsoft have marketing the mindshare will be more even, may even shift majority for XBOX.

Buying zenimax + acti-blizz is a big deal, big enough to shift mindshare and sony knows this.
psychonauts 2 is on PS as well and Infinite was a failure.
 

Kerotan

Member
Mindshare can't be purchased. It can only be built. Hats off to PlayStation and the PS4. What a wild gen they had. What a bevy of incredible games.

And Sony didn't have to spend billions buying the media the entire gen or constant fire sales just to clear stock.

Xbox got destroyed last gen.
 

As spotted by GameLuster and translated via Google Translate - so bear with me; this may not be a 100 per cent word-for-word translation - page 17/18 (paragraph 46) of Microsoft's own published court papers state that "Sony has surpassed Microsoft in terms of console sales and installed [sic] base, having sold more than twice as many Xbox [One units] in the last generation".


Back in January, Sony confirmed that more than 116m PS4 consoles have now been sold worldwide, and recently gave a lifetime sales total of 117.2 million, making it one of the most successful consoles of all time, if not quite eclipsing its most popular system, PS2. And while Microsoft has been more reticent about its sales figures, if the claims in the Brazillian court papers are right, that means Microsoft's Xbox One system could have sold around half that amount: somewhere in the region of 50-60 million.

If Sony sold more than twice as many XBOnes, then Xbox sales are below 58.6 million. So stating a range between 50 - 60m is incorrect; as where does the 50m lower bound come from? It's more accurate to just say < 58m.
 
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