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PS5 Beta is perfectly analogous to Sony today

SlimySnake

Member
Look at the games Sony has put out since the PS5 launched. Now compare that to the competitor.

That's all I care about. Keep that up Sony, like you did all of last generation, and nothing else really matters.
Absolutely hilarious if not alarming post. You dont care about Sony's PS5 output, just their competitor's lack thereof. So you only care about console wars. Incredible lack of self awareness here.
 

njean777

Member
they are literally fucking digital toys. they are not essential, and you shouldn't be charged an arm and a leg for them. This isn't food, water, shelter or clothing. I really shouldn't be paying for it, let alone paying 70 fucking dollars

That is exactly why they are 70$, because they are not essential. Games have and always will be a luxury item. You don't need it to survive. Same reason that people pay extra for streaming services, you don't need them and can always have the antenna TV/radio but if you pay a bit more than free, then you get whatever said service you are paying for. I am not defending the price of The Last Of Us as even I think that is steep, but for games in general it is a hobby first and foremost and there is plenty of free games to play if you do not want to pay, but if you want the games you have to pay for, then pay up. Also there are plenty of sales that throw games for cheaper than launch.

This isn't even going into the behind the scenes of game making and how many people need to be paid, etc.
 
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SlimySnake

Member
As much as we've complained about Sony, I think this is completely off-base. Sony is actually one of the rare few actually delivering timely content, along with Japanese third parties like Capcom/Square. We at least get a few AAA games every year interspersed with big-budget AA games. Horizon FW was absolutely in a playable state when it delivered, it just had some odd QOL issues and the 60 fps mode wasn't as clear. But there were more modes available than the original game had. From a glitch/bug/production standpoint it was absolutely fine.

2020 - Demon's Souls, Miles Morales, AstroBot
2021 - Returnal, Ratchet, Kena
2022 - HFW, GT7, SIFU. Stray, TLOU Part 1, GoW: R
2023 - Factions, Spider-Man 2, Final Fantasy 16, Forspoken, FF7:R Part 2

This is an acceptable lineup, even though I'd personally like to see more ACTUAL next-gen exclusives. These are all quality releases.

The bigger problem is the complete lack of quality WESTERN third party titles and continued struggles from Microsoft first party. Where is EA? Where is Activision? Where is Ubisoft? Where is Crystal Dynamics? Where is Rocksteady? Where is Rockstar? They are essentially all MIA with tons of problems. It feels like whenever COVID hit their entire employee base just gave up on being efficient or timely and all secretly hate their management and just phoning it in big time. The entire year of posting a donut for Microsoft is another unacceptable place to be. They had a good 2021 and absolutely nothing the next year. With all the investment Phil has made this should not be happening in 2022.
In terms of content, Sony has been fine. A lot of decent games. Nothing truly mindblowing. Just a step or two above Ubisoft Id say. There is a reason no PS5 game has won GOTY so far in two years and doubt that will continue this year since their only ps5 only release is a TLOU remake. That said, it's fine. They have been better than EA, Micorosft, and other third parties so they havent been all bad.

But the OP isnt exactly talking about their lack of first party output, is he? He brought up the state in which HFW and GT7 launched and we both know how poor HFW was at launch. Literally an eye sore. I dont think ive ever had graphics strain my eyes before. GT7's microtransactions were something out of a bad Battlefront launch. EA levels of greed here. The OP points out that the game still has a 2 on metacritic. Way lower than TLOU2's 5.7 which was review bombed to shit by angry fans.

I mean come on, why is 1440p shipping without VRR? Why add PAL versions of games on a service in the first place? Did they not playtest any of this? I asked myself this question when struggling with platforming in HFW because Sony games used to be polished as fuck. They never had this much jank. I love Returnal but so many crashes in that game where they shipped with no save option is game breaking. I struggled so much with that game because several of my runs where id beat the boss and have an incredible build would get wasted on a crash. It's probably why it took me almost 20 hours to beat the first half and just 3 hours to beat the second half because i was able to take my boss killing builds from one boss to the next without crashing and starting over from scratch.

These are all his complaints. I really dont think he's offbase here. Especially with how secretive they have been under Jim Ryan. He's right about not seeing anything from GOW since last year. The game is due out in 3 months. TLOU was only shown after it was leaked. weeks after it went gold. They have missed the last two E3s in a row. We dont know what Spiderman's gameplay looks like and thats their first next gen game since Ratchet. They wouldve gone 2.5 years without a next gen since Ratchet's launch if they didnt make TLOU a PS5 only game which lets face it, it's not.

In short, the OP isnt just talking about the PS5 output, but the level of polish, their ridiculous VRR implementations, the dumb PS+ rollout controversies and their ridiculous decision to skip E3s every year. If they do hold a September conference like they did last year, that would be AFTER Gamescom. Way too late. Im almost glad everything is leaking because hopefully that will get sony to start attending events earlier in the year.
 

SlimySnake

Member
I didn't say it was, I said it LOOKS like DLC, LOOKS LIKE, as in it looks iterative rather than evolutionary or revolutionary.
Pretty sure Evillore also said it looks/feels like a DLC expansion. So if you ever get shit for this post, try and find Evillore's post. Thats your get out of jail free card lol

I wont lie. I also had the same reaction. Couldnt believe the didnt change Kratos' character model at all. Freya and the Dwarves look the same too. I also rolled my eyes when they revealed them in midgard's frozen lake of nine again as if they are reusing assets for a sequel like its miles morales or something.

But the fact that the game has taken 4.5 years makes me think this will be like GOW2 in terms of scope, boss battles and variety. It will be huge. They are probably keeping everything under wraps because they just want to finish the damn game and move on. I remember watching the GOW2 documentary where Cory pretty much burns out trying to make the GOW2 E3 demo while also trying to ship the game on time. Im guessing he doesnt want another repeat of that crunch. When the game is ready, they will probably do a TLOU style deep dive before launch.
 
In terms of content, Sony has been fine. A lot of decent games. Nothing truly mindblowing. Just a step or two above Ubisoft Id say. There is a reason no PS5 game has won GOTY so far in two years and doubt that will continue this year since their only ps5 only release is a TLOU remake. That said, it's fine. They have been better than EA, Micorosft, and other third parties so they havent been all bad.

But the OP isnt exactly talking about their lack of first party output, is he? He brought up the state in which HFW and GT7 launched and we both know how poor HFW was at launch. Literally an eye sore. I dont think ive ever had graphics strain my eyes before. GT7's microtransactions were something out of a bad Battlefront launch. EA levels of greed here. The OP points out that the game still has a 2 on metacritic. Way lower than TLOU2's 5.7 which was review bombed to shit by angry fans.

I mean come on, why is 1440p shipping without VRR? Why add PAL versions of games on a service in the first place? Did they not playtest any of this? I asked myself this question when struggling with platforming in HFW because Sony games used to be polished as fuck. They never had this much jank. I love Returnal but so many crashes in that game where they shipped with no save option is game breaking. I struggled so much with that game because several of my runs where id beat the boss and have an incredible build would get wasted on a crash. It's probably why it took me almost 20 hours to beat the first half and just 3 hours to beat the second half because i was able to take my boss killing builds from one boss to the next without crashing and starting over from scratch.

These are all his complaints. I really dont think he's offbase here. Especially with how secretive they have been under Jim Ryan. He's right about not seeing anything from GOW since last year. The game is due out in 3 months. TLOU was only shown after it was leaked. weeks after it went gold. They have missed the last two E3s in a row. We dont know what Spiderman's gameplay looks like and thats their first next gen game since Ratchet. They wouldve gone 2.5 years without a next gen since Ratchet's launch if they didnt make TLOU a PS5 only game which lets face it, it's not.

In short, the OP isnt just talking about the PS5 output, but the level of polish, their ridiculous VRR implementations, the dumb PS+ rollout controversies and their ridiculous decision to skip E3s every year. If they do hold a September conference like they did last year, that would be AFTER Gamescom. Way too late. Im almost glad everything is leaking because hopefully that will get sony to start attending events earlier in the year.

HFW was fine at launch. Played it at 30fps, just like I did HZ:ZD. Same with GT7.

It wasn’t an unplayable mess like Cyberpunk or FO76.

VRR…FW updates…1440p….. YAWN, wake me up when I care about some of these fringe features
 

Bojanglez

The Amiga Brotherhood
Lists are so much better than folders, I don't want to limit myself to categorising a game in one way. I have games that are I'm my backlog list and in my classics list, sometimes they might also be a fighting game, so they're in that list. Depending on my mood I can access them easily from any list 👌
 

Gamerasi

Member
I have been a member of this forum for years, but I do not open a topic on any subject without knowledge. The problem with the launch of Gran Turismo was the economy for the game, the players took a stand because of this and they lowered the user rating, one of them was me, when they fixed it with the patch, I edited the user rating. Has anyone done this post-patch, of course not. Didn't you see this? You're wrong about Gran Turismo 7.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
you guys do realize it's fucking 2022 right? it's not the fucking 90s anymore. game prices shouldn't have to adhere to prices we had 30 years ago
Apparently you start from a point of view that you should not be paying for them at all so not sure why or how entering a rabbit hole of discussing game prices and odd arguments about how these are “so 90’s…” as of prices were a thing of fashion would make sense.

Sure, right now I can prey more on addicts thanks to real-time behaviour metrics in games and microtransactions, but if this is your “modern” strategy to lower game prices and subscriptions where you do not feel
Like you are paying for games anymore/value of games for you drop to 0… well, it is a bit pointless aside from hearing people like yourself complain about of quality of games in 10-20 years if all of this were the default for most… 🤷‍♂️.
 
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DenchDeckard

Gold Member
I'm an Xbox fan but all I can say is, Sony are the only company out of the two that have had a consistent release schedule (cross gen or not) so if they are failing then we are doomed.

Yes, the OS isn't great but if there is one thing I'm confident on is that Sony owned studios ship games, especially Insomniac they are one of the best in the biz for consistency.

I am more than happy with my PS5, the ugly fucker!

And there is no way that God Of War will be glorified DLC. I can't wait for the sea of 10/10 reviews to come in for people to realise that they know what they are doing. GoW 2018 was absolutely amazing.
 
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reksveks

Member
Sony software in terms of games clearly 10/10
Sony software in terms of os features feel like a 7/10 (although they do try some interesting stuff that doesn't always work out imo)

Does anyone expecting anything more to come out of the switcher?
 

ShakenG

Member
I'm an Xbox fan but all I can say is, Sony are the only company out of the two that have had a consistent release schedule (cross gen or not) so if they are failing then we are doomed.

Yes, the OS isn't great but if there is one thing I'm confident on is that Sony owned studios ship games, especially Insomniac they are one of the best in the biz for consistency.

I am more than happy with my PS5, the ugly fucker!

And there is no way that God Of War will be glorified DLC. I can't wait for the sea of 10/10 reviews to come in for people to realise that they know what they are doing. GoW 2018 was absolutely amazing.
Nods head, you're a good man Deckard... a good... man. Gaf could do with more of these comments.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
They have been very sloppy when it comes to OS/features updates that's true. Even their own proprietary sound solution Tempest 3D Audio in literally in beta stage, Cerny openly said during Road to PS5 presentation that it's gonna be "a few years journey" before it's fully functional across headsets, TV speakers and surround sound setups, while in the meantime Dolby Atmos support is nowhere to be found.

VRR support has been terrible, it took them YEARS to add that standard HDMI 2.1 feature into their TVs, just recently it's been finally added tobthe PS5 but in a rather half-assed workaround shape that requires the games to be individually patched to support it.

External SSD support took them quite a while as well.

The cross-gen support, seems like they weren't ready for it with all the save file transfer, the console downloading both PS4&5 versions, lack of different SKUs of the games, and so on.

The copying mechanism when updating the games is still present, while Cerny said during his presentation it's not gonna be the case anymore thanks to SSD, so that was a big fat lie. Sure it's much, much faster now but nevertheless it's still there, so instead of just downloading a small patch it has to re-install the entire game afterwards (which requires appropriate disk space).

Once the cross-gen is over some of the issues will naturally go away, some will get sorted out with time, some probably never will, but yeah, so far the PS5 is far from being a simple, user-friendly experience the consoles used to be synonyms with.
 
they are literally fucking digital toys. they are not essential, and you shouldn't be charged an arm and a leg for them. This isn't food, water, shelter or clothing. I really shouldn't be paying for it, let alone paying 70 fucking dollars
A prostitute cost 50€ per 20 min.
A movie ticket costs 10-15€ for 1.5h movie
A ski shoe cost over 150€
To able to use the ski area in Austria for couple hours is 35€
Are this essential ? No but it's entertainment and they are not cheap. Gaming is the cheapest hobby available and most accessible.
 
Both games have a lot of reason for concern.

Starfield looks like absolute trash and GOWR looks like GoW 2018 DLC.
Oke, after all you where posting in this topic, and many people proofing you wrong and you cant stop and going on and on and on, you are on my ignore list. I can stand people who keep posting comment after comment to win the discussion even if they wrong. Let it go dude.
 

Banjo64

Member
Astro, Sackboy, Miles Morales, Returnal, Ratchet, DeS, Horizon, GT7, Kena, Sifu, Stray. Console came out 20 months ago and I can play those games on it. You can complain about the quality relative to the PS4, but you’d have to be stupid to say those aren’t some of the most polished and quality games being released at present.

You’re choosing to complain about VRR and game lists? Ok that’s fine but you’re complaining about something that bothers less than 1% of the user base. There’s also things that Sony are doing well like their SSD expansion programme.

Overall, pretty funny thread.
 

Sosokrates

Member
The only issue I have with sony is that I have to look at the terrible design of the PS5 everyday, why couldent they just done a black + white rectangular box, why did they have to go all picasso on me 😆

But jokes aside they are doing very well lots of great games and very powerful console, Jim Ryan gets a thumbs up from me 👍
 
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Sosokrates

Member
A prostitute cost 50€ per 20 min.
A movie ticket costs 10-15€ for 1.5h movie
A ski shoe cost over 150€
To able to use the ski area in Austria for couple hours is 35€
Are this essential ? No but it's entertainment and they are not cheap. Gaming is the cheapest hobby available and most accessible.

Can I come on these hooker filled Austrian ski 🎿 trips with you?
 

MikeM

Member
You love your straw mans as well.

Who said it had to be a reboot.

God of War 2 blows the doors off God of War 1 and God of War 3 which was on PS3 blows the doors off of God of War 2.

God of War Ragnarok literally looks like an expansion of God of War 2018 and nothing they've shown YET (keyword YET) suggests it is in any way an evolution like past games have been.
The game isn’t even out yet. We have seen what, 20s of actual gameplay? Easy there with declaring it as a glorified DLC without it even being released yet.
I'm an Xbox fan but all I can say is, Sony are the only company out of the two that have had a consistent release schedule (cross gen or not) so if they are failing then we are doomed.

Yes, the OS isn't great but if there is one thing I'm confident on is that Sony owned studios ship games, especially Insomniac they are one of the best in the biz for consistency.

I am more than happy with my PS5, the ugly fucker!

And there is no way that God Of War will be glorified DLC. I can't wait for the sea of 10/10 reviews to come in for people to realise that they know what they are doing. GoW 2018 was absolutely amazing.
Agreed. Did you see the PS5 in the different shell colours? I bought the black ones and that combined with the blue light is mean AF.
They have been very sloppy when it comes to OS/features updates that's true. Even their own proprietary sound solution Tempest 3D Audio in literally in beta stage, Cerny openly said during Road to PS5 presentation that it's gonna be "a few years journey" before it's fully functional across headsets, TV speakers and surround sound setups, while in the meantime Dolby Atmos support is nowhere to be found.

VRR support has been terrible, it took them YEARS to add that standard HDMI 2.1 feature into their TVs, just recently it's been finally added tobthe PS5 but in a rather half-assed workaround shape that requires the games to be individually patched to support it.

External SSD support took them quite a while as well.

The cross-gen support, seems like they weren't ready for it with all the save file transfer, the console downloading both PS4&5 versions, lack of different SKUs of the games, and so on.

The copying mechanism when updating the games is still present, while Cerny said during his presentation it's not gonna be the case anymore thanks to SSD, so that was a big fat lie. Sure it's much, much faster now but nevertheless it's still there, so instead of just downloading a small patch it has to re-install the entire game afterwards (which requires appropriate disk space).

Once the cross-gen is over some of the issues will naturally go away, some will get sorted out with time, some probably never will, but yeah, so far the PS5 is far from being a simple, user-friendly experience the consoles used to be synonyms with.
Agree with everything except the VRR stuff. I see a toggle to make it work with games even though its not natively patched in.
 
Sony has really, I think done a great job listening to their audience this generation, but their execution just leaves a lot to be desired. It strikes me as absolutely amateurish for the leader in this industry to act the way they do.

Sony released the PS5 beta and obviously, the features are well in beta, but what do we have?

Game lists!!!!

Finally, this is great, but there always seems to be a caveat with Sony these days.

When you add games to lists there is no option to have them removed from the general library. I understand why you might ultimately want games in multiple lists, so this should be an option, but having to navigate through your entire list just to add additional games to lists (not knowing whether they are currently in a list or not) is complete amateur hour. How did they get this so right on PS4 and so wrong here? Did they fire the folder guy and hire someone new here?

What's worse is you also can't change the order of the lists or sort within the list themselves, they both just go in order of creation/addition. This is something they absolutely need to fix before this goes into the production version, and I'm stunned that it's this way even in a beta. It took me all of 2 minutes to discover these clear issues.

Similarly, we see that Sony listened to those that wanted 1440p and they delivered, but without VRR... And even when they delivered VRR they did so in a way that it only works above 48 fps iirc.

Sony put out PAL games for their freshly launched subscription model, tried to fix the frame issue leading to ghosting, and then finally decided to offer NTSC versions. They listened which is great, but I just don't understand why they can't get things right out of the gate.

Both Gran Turismo 7 and Horizon's launches were botched and eclipsed by Elden Ring. GT7 is still sitting with a user score of 2.0...

I'm one of the few people who are entirely in favor of a Last of Us Remake, but they've even lost me on purchasing this at full price. The marketing from Sony on PS5 has been bewildering. They don't generate hype for any of their games and the games have not had the same polish they had with the previous gen (so far). I feel like Sony has tried to rest on the success of the PS4 a bit too much, whether that involves cross-gen or PS5 ending up more of an iterative upgrade over the PS4 and particularly the PS4 Pro. (I think Microsoft has done an even worse job this generation and their lack of IP to date is baffling).

I'm not one of these guys who thinks that thinks Jim Ryan is a monster or totally inept, but I do find Sony utterly rudderless under his direction. They seem like they're about 18-24 months behind where they should be and finding it very difficult to discuss their games in advance. Last of Us Part 1 and God of War both are coming out in a few months and we've seen little to nothing on them (I don't think we would have seen Last of Us yet if it had not been for leaks). Remasters of Uncharted 4 and Lost Legacy instead of remakes of Uncharted 1-3 (but that's just my 2 cents).

Spider-Man 2 is supposed to come out next year and we've still seen nothing on it. Maybe that's just how the industry works today for many games, but when Sony says its sales are down (games, not consoles), I'm not surprised. I didn't buy GT7 or Horizon and won't buy LOU P1 until they drop in price. The only game that might still be day 1 for me is God of War, but maybe even that is a stretch. I lament the death of e3. I think we all know that Spider-Man 2, God of War, and Last of Us P1 would have been showcased at E3 and that pressure to create something for E3 leads to diamonds (even if that content isn't used in final games).

Edited: To fix the time frame of how far behind they seem to be.
100% agree with this.
It is very sad to see clowns defending Sony in its current form.
 
That God of War release date triggered some folks hard

God Of War Ps4 GIF by PlayStation
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
The game isn’t even out yet. We have seen what, 20s of actual gameplay? Easy there with declaring it as a glorified DLC without it even being released yet.

Agreed. Did you see the PS5 in the different shell colours? I bought the black ones and that combined with the blue light is mean AF.

Agree with everything except the VRR stuff. I see a toggle to make it work with games even though its not natively patched in.
Yeah man, I've nearly pulled the trigger multiple times but I can only find them for 45 pounds.....If I could get them for 30 Id probably go for it.
 

billyxci

Permabanned.
all the beta tells me is that sony is incompetent. it took them this long to add 1440p and can't make VRR work with it. pathetic.
 

Draugoth

Gold Member
Not having 1440p in mind itself is an oversight. Do I care about 1440p? No, but obviously a large segment of gamers do.
When envisioned products you dont focus on hardcore games but on the larger percentage of possible buyers for maximize profit, which in the case for video-games are casual gamers, and most casual gamers have the standard 4K/1080p 60hz televisions instead of high fresh rate monitors with the non standard 1440p quality.
The lack of "spoilers" didn't help Horizon.
Horizon knew they would be releasing alongside Elden Ring, they decided to take the gamble on that release date.
Maybe you delay Horizon a few months, clean it up, and release it against no competition this summer?
Sometimes you are forced to abide by investor and the best release schedules, if they didn't delay the game is because they couldn't. People forget that delaying products also cost money.
I'm not saying they should have delayed the PS5. I'm just bewildered that this beta is in such rough shape on such a simple thing such as game lists/folders. This is like dev 101-type stuff.
You normally would be correct, but every console since the OG Xbox does this.
Jim Ryan became President of SIE, 3 years ago, nothing that he did as President brought the Ps4 to where it ended up.
I thought we were talking about the PS5...
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Are this essential ? No but it's entertainment and they are not cheap. Gaming is the cheapest hobby available and most accessible.
you pay 500 dollars for a giant box that may or may not break in the future, then you pay 70 dollars for a disc with a game on it, 15 dollars a month for online or a subscription service, and 80 dollars if you want another person to play with you (so 320 dollars if you want a group of 4 to play games with you)

tell me that isn't more expensive than all of the other hobbies you listed. Sony and Microsoft are making Arcade gaming look good in fucking 2022
 
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Similarly, we see that Sony listened to those that wanted 1440p and they delivered, but without VRR... And even when they delivered VRR they did so in a way that it only works above 48 fps iirc.
I have to say, I'm still flabbergasted that Sony finally listened and is going to support 1440p on their console.

That resolution is a really good tradeoff for the hardware and for the costumer. I don't care about VRR more than I care about 1440p.

Now here's hoping the 1440p monitors replace the 1080p as entry point, because as of now, and as much as I like them, it seems stupid to pay nearly as much as you pay for a 4K monitor.
 
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their ridiculous decision to skip E3s every year. If they do hold a September conference like they did last year, that would be AFTER Gamescom. Way too late. Im almost glad everything is leaking because hopefully that will get sony to start attending events earlier in the year.
Late? Am I missing some invisible deadline?
We already know this year's lineup. If we get s show in September or November after god of war releases it's more than fine.

MS has been at every damn show and for what? Does that make that console a best place to play for that reason? What games are being released for it? 1st party games...

Again lots of you guys are still looking at 2008 and thinking times haven't changed. There's absolutely no reason why Sony needs to drag their studios to multiple shows per year to be there physically when most people watch the trailers later on YouTube and not the live conferences.
Sony probably realized those shows are obsolete now. You guys should as well.

One show from them per year is more than enough with the rest of the year with state of plays and blog announcements.
 
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Terrible thread, they are still at the top where it counts. Switch sold over 100 mil and you can’t even send a friend a message on the system.
 

scydrex

Member
Of course they should. Games at that time didn't nearly take as long to make as games take to make today.

$70 is cheap cheap for a game that takes 4-5 years to make today and have ~100 hours of playtime.

Exactly how much Nintendo budget spend on their games? A budget don't mean the game will be bad or good. Still Nintendo ask $60 for their games. Do you think the budget of a Nintendo game is half of what Sony spend on Horizon 2? GOW or any other game? Even MS with Halo, Gears or any other? We know that is not even half the budget still they sell for $60. Every gen the games get more complex and take more time to develop as you said.
 
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8BiTw0LF

Gold Member
Exactly how much Nintendo budget spend on their games? A budget don't mean the game will be bad or good. Still Nintendo asl $60 for their games. Do you think the budget of a Nintendo game is half of what Sony spend on Horizon 2? GOW or any other game? Even MS with Hali, Gears or any other? We know that is not even maybe half the budget still they sell for $60. Every gen the games are get more complex and take more time to develop as you said.
Yes, the only solution (seen from a publishers perspective) is to have everything in a subscription-based service, so developers are getting a budget based on their earlier output. I know for a fact that Nintendo's in-house teams isn't as big as Sony's or Microsoft's teams - but they "have to" follow the market prices for games, or else people will see them as a budget company.

Only reason Microsoft hasn't adjusted their prices for games, is because they're 100% focused on GamePass - something Sony can't risk to do yet, cause they can't take the loss in revenue, if their service doesn't meet the customers demands.

Microsoft has endless money and can take a loss every year for 10 years without breaking a sweat.
 
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