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PS5 will outsell Xbox Series consoles 2-to-1 this year, Ampere Analysis forecasts

Ozriel

M$FT
Europe barely had units in 2022 for the PS5 though.

If that’s the case, and with Sales relatively close in North America and the UK, it does seem like you’re not convinced of a staggeringly large sales delta between Xbox and PlayStation in 2022 that could lead to a 2:1 scenario.

We know Japan’s sales accounts for around 1 million unit delta. Interested to hear ideas on where the gap is supposed to be happening if the narrative is being pushed that consoles weren’t readily available in much of Europe.
 

jm89

Member
That's 90k units for the entire year difference....for Spain

A drop in the ocean.
Spain is a small market, but it will paint a picture for alot of europe.
Japan is one million units.
A large market....

I need to know where another 3 to 4 million units are coming from for the rest of the world.

I think its pretty obvious that MS has had a stonking 2022 with the series consoles. Not as much as ps5 but still an absolute shit load and no where near 2 to 1 worldwide.

Well unless MS release numbers we won't know about other parts of the world.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
It does paint a picture.

PlayStation dominance, as expected

But also improving Xbox performance from the previous gen. Also as expected, tbh.

Two truths that can co-exist.

Exactly. Sony and Microsoft can both be winning.

It's like people can't handle that Microsoft is having their best gen in their xbox history as well as Sony doing really well. It's odd.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
That's 90k units for the entire year difference....for Spain

A drop in the ocean.

Japan is one million units.
A large market....

I need to know where another 3 to 4 million units are coming from for the rest of the world.

I think it’s pretty obvious that MS has had a stonking 2022 with the series consoles. Not as much as ps5 but still an absolute shit load and no where near 2 to 1 worldwide.
Looks like you are helping to put the “Xbox cannot compete without purchasing Activision - Blizzard” argument to rest. Very high degree of sportsmanship ;).
 
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jm89

Member
Exactly. Sony and Microsoft can both be winning.

It's like people can't handle that Microsoft is having their best gen in their xbox history as well as Sony doing really well. It's odd.
Nothing really odd about it, the discussion was never about winning.

Somebody said nowhere is playstation is outselling Xbox 2 to 1, when we know that is not true. And now you guys taking the discussion all over the place.
 

Godot25

Banned
Exactly. Sony and Microsoft can both be winning.

It's like people can't handle that Microsoft is having their best gen in their xbox history as well as Sony doing really well. It's odd.
Because they have same mindset as Sony.

Why do you think Sony moneyhatted like crazy at the start of this gen? Because they wanted Xbox burried and stomped. They probably knew that it will take few years for Microsoft to build their first party portfolio and they wanted to be sure that they are clear winner by the time Microsoft get there. Maybe even more than in last gen. But then Microsoft took one shortcut (Bethesda) and now is taking another (ABK) and also Sony did not managed to switch as much players as they wanted to next-gen (thanks to shortages) and situation is somehow different. Yes, they are clearly leading, but I don't think they are leading as much as they wanted to.
 
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reksveks

Member
1) xbox has made gains re: marketshare including ES and JP
2) xbox is getting outsold more than 2:1 in specific markets
3) both platform holders have reasons to believe that their products will become more desirable in the following year
4) both platform holders have had supply constaints (personally believe sony more so but xbox has had issues in the US) and they will get resolved.

all above points aren't mutually exclusive, not sure what else to add
 
If that’s the case, and with Sales relatively close in North America and the UK, it does seem like you’re not convinced of a staggeringly large sales delta between Xbox and PlayStation in 2022 that could lead to a 2:1 scenario.

We know Japan’s sales accounts for around 1 million unit delta. Interested to hear ideas on where the gap is supposed to be happening if the narrative is being pushed that consoles weren’t readily available in much of Europe.
Everyone knows UK got most of europe's units for last year.
As an european who lives in portugal and has friends all over european countries i feel like i know what i'm talking about.

There were weeks where the PS5 was selling less than 40 units in Spain, lmao.

Dude...PS5 sold 10M units from June to December last year as soon as production started to increase. A third of all PS5 2 year sales came from the past 6 months only...it's pretty clear production issues affected the first 6 months of last year we all know that.
 
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Ozriel

M$FT
Nothing really odd about it, the discussion was never about winning.

Somebody said nowhere is playstation is outselling Xbox 2 to 1, when we know that is not true. And now you guys taking the discussion all over the place.

I’ve gone back to trace where your input started. It does look like you misconstrued SenjutsuSage SenjutsuSage comment. Looks like he’s saying Xbox wasn’t outsold 2:1 in 2022 as Ampere forecasted…not that he’s questioning if any region had that sales disparity. Everyone knows it’s probably 10:1 in Japan, for example.

The thread is about overall sales. That’s the angle replies to your post are working with. Perhaps the Sage could have worded his post better.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Everyone knows UK got most of europe's units for last year.
As an european who lives in portugal and has friends all over european countries i feel like i know what i'm talking about.

There were weeks where the PS5 was selling less than 40 units in Spain, lmao.

Dude...PS5 sold 10M units from June to December last year as soon as production started to increase. A third of all PS5 2 year sales came from the past 6 months only...it's pretty clear production issues affected the first 6 months of last year we all know that.


I’m not disputing any of that. I’m only pointing out to you that this position further reinforces the fact that Ampere’s prediction fell flat, with Xbox having better relative performance than they’d assumed.

Clear?
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
I haven't read all the posts, so I'm not sure of specific points raised. But are people arguing that it's not 2:1 and Ampere Analysis was wrong?

I think they were right, at least almost right.
  • PS5 has officially sold more than 30 million units. We'll know more specific data after this quarter's financial reports.
  • Xbox doesn't have official data, so we'll have to go with estimates from reputable analyst and market research firms.
  • Ampere Analysis put Xbox at 13 million in June 2022 (IIRC?). That amounts to 13 million units in 19 months or 0.68 million units per month.
  • Keeping the same pace, Xbox would have sold 4.08 million more units b/w July and December, which puts the total to 17.08 million units.
So it's 17 million Xbox vs. more than 30 million PS5s.

The ratio turns out to be 1.76, instead of 2. I think Ampere didn't foresee how severe the PS5 supply chain issues would be.

In 2023, I foresee this gap to widen at a more rapid pace -- especially because of EU and Japan where PS5 supply is just ramping up. Sony outsold Xbox Series's lifetime sales in just 30 days last month in Japan. The gap will increase if Sony can keep EU and JP well supplied.
 
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jm89

Member
I’ve gone back to trace where your input started. It does look like you misconstrued SenjutsuSage SenjutsuSage comment. Looks like he’s saying Xbox wasn’t outsold 2:1 in 2022 as Ampere forecasted…not that he’s questioning if any region had that sales disparity. Everyone knows it’s probably 10:1 in Japan, for example.

The thread is about overall sales. That’s the angle replies to your post are working with. Perhaps the Sage could have worded his post better.
Nothing was misconstrued other then with you with my posts, he mentioned specific markets USA and UK, and then said anywhere else.
 

Godot25

Banned
I haven't read all the posts, so I'm not sure of specific points raised. But are people arguing that it's not 2:1 and Ampere Analysis was wrong?

I think they were right, at least almost right.
  • PS5 has officially sold more than 30 million units. We'll know more specific data after this quarter's financial reports.
  • Xbox doesn't have official data, so we'll have to go with estimates from reputable analyst and market research firms.
  • Ampere Analysis put Xbox at 13 million in June 2022 (IIRC?). That amounts to 13 million units in 19 months or 0.68 million units per month.
  • Keeping the same pace, Xbox would have sold 4.08 million more units b/w July and December, which puts the total to 17.08 million units.
So it's 17 million Xbox vs. more than 30 million PS5s.

The ratio turns out to be 1.76, instead of 2. I think Ampere didn't foresee how severe the PS5 supply chain issues would be.

In 2023, I foresee this gap to widen at a more rapid pace -- especially because of EU and Japan where PS5 supply is just ramping up. Sony outsold Xbox Series's lifetime sales in just 30 days last month in Japan. The gap will increase if Sony can keep EU and JP well supplied.
Ehh. Ampere was talking about sales in 2022. Which makes your post kinda...pointless?
 

reksveks

Member
Something Aaron Greenberg failed to mention when he was talking about Series S/X selling faster than 360

“We’ve sold more consoles life-to-date than any previous generation of Xbox


Quote from Greenberg? would be interesting to see the date.
 
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Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Ehh. Ampere was talking about sales in 2022. Which makes your post kinda...pointless?
The first estimate (13m vs. 21m) by Ampere was for LTD console sales. If you want to isolate 2022's data, it is easy to do that with the data I shared.

4.08M Xbox consoles vs. 9 million PS5 console sales from July to December 2022 makes for a ratio of 2.25. You can estimate H1's console sales ratio using this 2.25 [H2's console sales ratio].

In that case, 2.0 would be a very safe bet.
 

clampzyn

Member
I haven't read all the posts, so I'm not sure of specific points raised. But are people arguing that it's not 2:1 and Ampere Analysis was wrong?

I think they were right, at least almost right.
  • PS5 has officially sold more than 30 million units. We'll know more specific data after this quarter's financial reports.
  • Xbox doesn't have official data, so we'll have to go with estimates from reputable analyst and market research firms.
  • Ampere Analysis put Xbox at 13 million in June 2022 (IIRC?). That amounts to 13 million units in 19 months or 0.68 million units per month.
  • Keeping the same pace, Xbox would have sold 4.08 million more units b/w July and December, which puts the total to 17.08 million units.
So it's 17 million Xbox vs. more than 30 million PS5s.

The ratio turns out to be 1.76, instead of 2. I think Ampere didn't foresee how severe the PS5 supply chain issues would be.

In 2023, I foresee this gap to widen at a more rapid pace -- especially because of EU and Japan where PS5 supply is just ramping up. Sony outsold Xbox Series's lifetime sales in just 30 days last month in Japan. The gap will increase if Sony can keep EU and JP well supplied.
There were no "severe" supply issues for both consoles, most of them goes to scalpers and people buying this consoles had a hard time getting one. And if there were "severe" supply issues, PS wouldn't have sold 30m just like ps4 in same 2 year time frame. And oh the "gap" would widen since PS is now more available thingy? Is it because there are more stocks or the console isn't that demanding anymore. Do you know? Coz I don't know either, it could go both ways so don't assume too much that the gap "will" widen moving forward.
 
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Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
There were no "severe" supply issues for both consoles, most of them goes to scalpers and people buying this consoles had a hard time getting one. And if there were "severe" supply issues, PS wouldn't have sold 30m just like ps4 in same 2 year time frame.
  1. The '20 million estimate' is by VGChartz, which literally guesses the numbers and adjust when they receive official information (in case of PlayStation) or never does (in Xbox case). One of the least credible websites out there for this.
  2. PS sold 30M despite the severe supply issues (PS4 sold 36M by this time frame). You can't say that PS5 is more popular than PS4, can you? In that case, why did PS5 sell less than PS4? Supply issues have plagued both Xbox and PS this generation. It is evident, considering the demand and supply and the fact that so many people still haven't been able to buy the consoles.
    1. Phil Spencer on Xbox supply issues
    2. Jim Ryan on PlayStation supply issues
    3. Analysts on both PS5 and Xbox supply issues
 
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Godot25

Banned
The first estimate (13m vs. 21m) by Ampere was for LTD console sales. If you want to isolate 2022's data, it is easy to do that with the data I shared.

4.08M Xbox consoles vs. 9 million PS5 console sales from July to December 2022 makes for a ratio of 2.25. You can estimate H1's console sales ratio using this 2.25 [H2's console sales ratio].

In that case, 2.0 would be a very safe bet.
So, that's why Microsoft said that they gained marketshare in comparison to PlayStation globally two quarters in a row? And sales in UK was neck in neck for entire year? Same as US?

Yeah. Something is not adding up here...
 
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Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
So, that's why Microsoft said that they gained marketshare globally two quarters in a row? And sales in UK was neck in neck for entire year? Same as US?

Yeah. Something is not adding up here...
These things aren't mutually exclusive. All of them can be true at the same time.

Microsoft only gave vague statements; they were never specific regarding console sales data.
 

Topher

Gold Member
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Ozriel

M$FT
I haven't read all the posts, so I'm not sure of specific points raised. But are people arguing that it's not 2:1 and Ampere Analysis was wrong?

I think they were right, at least almost right.
  • PS5 has officially sold more than 30 million units. We'll know more specific data after this quarter's financial reports.
  • Xbox doesn't have official data, so we'll have to go with estimates from reputable analyst and market research firms.
  • Ampere Analysis put Xbox at 13 million in June 2022 (IIRC?). That amounts to 13 million units in 19 months or 0.68 million units per month.
  • Keeping the same pace, Xbox would have sold 4.08 million more units b/w July and December, which puts the total to 17.08 million units.
So it's 17 million Xbox vs. more than 30 million PS5s.

The ratio turns out to be 1.76, instead of 2. I think Ampere didn't foresee how severe the PS5 supply chain issues would be.

In 2023, I foresee this gap to widen at a more rapid pace -- especially because of EU and Japan where PS5 supply is just ramping up. Sony outsold Xbox Series's lifetime sales in just 30 days last month in Japan. The gap will increase if Sony can keep EU and JP well supplied.


Sony were at approx 17 million PS5 sold by end 2021. In this thread’s OP, Ampere predicted 18 million units sold in 2022, which would have taken PS5 sales to 35 million by now.
If you think their prediction is ‘close’ and there’s no significant difference between 30 and 35, I don’t know what to say to you.

We have estimates for xbox for end of 2021 as ‘over 12 million’. Based on Microsoft confirming Xbox Series consoles had outsold both the 360 and Xbox One, launch aligned. Ampere estimates of 13 million by end june 2022 are thus not credible, especially with Xbox Series having record H1 2022 hardware sales.
 

M16

Member
analysts...lol

fzgoh2D.jpg
 

reksveks

Member
Ah it was when he retweeted vgchartz lol…


Like I said, Xbox One was also the fastest selling Xbox ever

until the Series but yeah, the Xbox One didn't falter until late year 2 slash year 3. We haven't got to that yet so it might happen again or might not.

If it happens again, XGS will have fucked up as a whole.
 
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DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
L

Looks like you are helping to put the “Xbox cannot compete without purchasing Activision - Blizzard” argument to rest. Very high degree of sportsmanship ;).

Sounds good. Xbox can obviously compete. They are competing with absolutely 0 first party games. Not 2 to 1 sales but they are closer than last gen so that's good I guess.
Because they have same mindset as Sony.

Why do you think Sony moneyhatted like crazy at the start of this gen? Because they wanted Xbox burried and stomped. They probably knew that it will take few years for Microsoft to build their first party portfolio and they wanted to be sure that they are clear winner by the time Microsoft get there. Maybe even more than in last gen. But then Microsoft took one shortcut (Bethesda) and now is taking another (ABK) and also Sony did not managed to switch as much players as they wanted to next-gen (thanks to shortages) and situation is somehow different. Yes, they are clearly leading, but I don't think they are leading as much as they wanted to.

Interesting points. Deffo the supply constraints for both xbox and ps5 have kept them both fighting to deliver the sales they'd hoped.
I haven't read all the posts, so I'm not sure of specific points raised. But are people arguing that it's not 2:1 and Ampere Analysis was wrong?

I think they were right, at least almost right.
  • PS5 has officially sold more than 30 million units. We'll know more specific data after this quarter's financial reports.
  • Xbox doesn't have official data, so we'll have to go with estimates from reputable analyst and market research firms.
  • Ampere Analysis put Xbox at 13 million in June 2022 (IIRC?). That amounts to 13 million units in 19 months or 0.68 million units per month.
  • Keeping the same pace, Xbox would have sold 4.08 million more units b/w July and December, which puts the total to 17.08 million units.
So it's 17 million Xbox vs. more than 30 million PS5s.

The ratio turns out to be 1.76, instead of 2. I think Ampere didn't foresee how severe the PS5 supply chain issues would be.

In 2023, I foresee this gap to widen at a more rapid pace -- especially because of EU and Japan where PS5 supply is just ramping up. Sony outsold Xbox Series's lifetime sales in just 30 days last month in Japan. The gap will increase if Sony can keep EU and JP well supplied.
It ain't 2 to 1. Hopefully ms gives us some insite soon.
  1. The '20 million estimate' is by VGChartz, which literally guesses the numbers and adjust when they receive official information (in case of PlayStation) or never does (in Xbox case). One of the least credible websites out there for this.
  2. PS sold 30M despite the severe supply issues (PS4 sold 36M by this time frame). You can't say that PS5 is more popular than PS4, can you? In that case, why did PS5 sell less than PS4? Supply issues have plagued both Xbox and PS this generation. It is evident, considering the demand and supply and the fact that so many people still haven't been able to buy the consoles.
    1. Phil Spencer on Xbox supply issues
    2. Jim Ryan on PlayStation supply issues
    3. Analysts on both PS5 and Xbox supply issues

Both playstation and series x have had serious supply issues. They both would have sold more.
 

Kokoloko85

Member
Good thing this current generation doesn’t seem to have any of the baggage that held the Xbox One down, eh?
Competitive on price, power…and an exponentially bigger first party setup. No launch scandals too.

We’ll have to see how it plays out. I doubt it will do alot better than last gen and hit higher than 360 numbers, maybe 10-20m units more than X1?
They released there biggest franchise already ( Halo )

Whereas 360 got a huge boost when Halo 3 came out 2 years after launch. I dont see any other title doing that again, Elder Scrolls 6 could but thats not coming out for awhile
And even with a Series S priced machine and no stock issues, its closer to 2:1 then 1:1 with PS
 
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Wrong. In January 2022, Phil Spencer in a NY Times interview confirmed that the Xbox Series consoles were outselling all other Xbox generations at the same time frame. Unless you claim the XBO wasn’t an Xbox console, your claim that the new console is tracking behind the Xbox One is nonsense.

Do you know how many 360s were sold by the start of its 15th month? XBOs? Because we both know those numbers are not particularly high, especially if the 360 for example reached 11.5 million sold-through by its 20th month, and XBO sales started to dramatically slow down after its launch period (~6 months)?

Claims don't mean much if they don't have numbers provided. Things also can change in the span of a year. Series may have been outpacing XBO in January 2022, but I doubt they maintained that for the whole year, because I doubt they've hit 18 million sold-through as of this January.

Again, nothing's stopping Microsoft from making a public statement on general sell-through rate of the system IF it's outpacing both 360 & XBO at this point still. They don't even need to provide numbers. But they won't do it if it's not true otherwise that could end up being a legal liability.

And yet, Using the ‘selling better than Xbox One’ metric, analyst estimates were that the Series consoles had shipped more than 12 million units by the end of December 2021. 8 months ahead of your August 2022 claim.

Sold-in (to retailers) != sold-through (to customers).

This seems like an attempt to deliberately mislead, since Microsoft’s CMA response dated the 63.7 million figure at the end of 2021. Calendar year 2021. So by your logic, that should have had approx 13.7 million Series consoles sold at the end of 2021. Not August 2022 like you’ve been pushing.

Do you have a source for the 63.7 million being attributed to end of 2021? I might have missed that part. Given the timing in which they provided the information I figured the results would have been more recent, at least up to the end of their FY 2021 (which ended June 2022).

Why would they provide the CMA with install base figures that leave out multiple months where more units would have been sold and therefore given a more pertinent indication of console sales near the time they actually provided the statement to regulators? I'm pretty sure pertinence of data is rather important to regulators as they investigate into the acquisition.

Since that time, Microsoft has gone on to announce record setting Xbox hardware sales quarters during 2022, so it’s safe to say there’s been a significant increase on those numbers.

Again, general claims but with no data provided to the public or shareholders on actual console sales units. There's a serious lack of transparency in the way they provide these numbers, yet still want to toot the horn when the optics favor them, that they're outselling competitors in a given time frame.

Also if you didn't notice those claims stopped right before summer hit last year, because they were based on NPDs (NA only), and they stopped selling the most consoles in NA around that time.

This is not a credible assumption for reasons outlined earlier. It just reads like you’re invested in downplaying Xbox hardware sales. Why?

I'm not interested in downplaying anything. I'm interested in talking real numbers, which is something Microsoft are very coy to provide when it comes to Xbox console sales. So I have to use metrics they provide, metrics 3P analysts provide, common-sense deductions, numbers that their competitors provide etc. to try getting a realistic measure of where their hardware sales are actually at. There are also circumstantial things too, like sudden Series S price cuts and promotion deals coming in at odd timings in Xbox's strongest markets (historically) that also have to be considered.

If Microsoft aren't willing to provide transparency on these numbers, this is what they risk happening. The risk members of the public attempting to figure out and extrapolate the numbers themselves. I'm just interested in trying to figure what a realistic range of sales numbers are actually at, and cut past the PR BS.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Do you know how many 360s were sold by the start of its 15th month? XBOs? Because we both know those numbers are not particularly high, especially if the 360 for example reached 11.5 million sold-through by its 20th month, and XBO sales started to dramatically slow down after its launch period (~6 months)?

Claims don't mean much if they don't have numbers provided. Things also can change in the span of a year. Series may have been outpacing XBO in January 2022, but I doubt they maintained that for the whole year, because I doubt they've hit 18 million sold-through as of this January.

Again, nothing's stopping Microsoft from making a public statement on general sell-through rate of the system IF it's outpacing both 360 & XBO at this point still. They don't even need to provide numbers. But they won't do it if it's not true otherwise that could end up being a legal liability.



Sold-in (to retailers) != sold-through (to customers).



Do you have a source for the 63.7 million being attributed to end of 2021? I might have missed that part. Given the timing in which they provided the information I figured the results would have been more recent, at least up to the end of their FY 2021 (which ended June 2022).

Why would they provide the CMA with install base figures that leave out multiple months where more units would have been sold and therefore given a more pertinent indication of console sales near the time they actually provided the statement to regulators? I'm pretty sure pertinence of data is rather important to regulators as they investigate into the acquisition.



Again, general claims but with no data provided to the public or shareholders on actual console sales units. There's a serious lack of transparency in the way they provide these numbers, yet still want to toot the horn when the optics favor them, that they're outselling competitors in a given time frame.

Also if you didn't notice those claims stopped right before summer hit last year, because they were based on NPDs (NA only), and they stopped selling the most consoles in NA around that time.



I'm not interested in downplaying anything. I'm interested in talking real numbers, which is something Microsoft are very coy to provide when it comes to Xbox console sales. So I have to use metrics they provide, metrics 3P analysts provide, common-sense deductions, numbers that their competitors provide etc. to try getting a realistic measure of where their hardware sales are actually at. There are also circumstantial things too, like sudden Series S price cuts and promotion deals coming in at odd timings in Xbox's strongest markets (historically) that also have to be considered.

If Microsoft aren't willing to provide transparency on these numbers, this is what they risk happening. The risk members of the public attempting to figure out and extrapolate the numbers themselves. I'm just interested in trying to figure what a realistic range of sales numbers are actually at, and cut past the PR BS.

Not read all of your post but I would put a bet with you that they have sold through 18 million easy. They are less than 100k units behind Sony for 2 of the largest markets of UK and USA in 2022. its almost mathematically impossible for Microsoft to not be over 18 million lifetime.
 

jm89

Member
Both playstation and series x have had serious supply issues. They both would have sold more.
There supply issues where nowhere near comparable. Ps5 stock was practically non existent for the few months of 2022, whilst Xbox had pretty much no stock issues through out Europe in 2022.

Maybe in USA there stock issues where comparable and other smallers markets.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
There supply issues where nowhere near comparable. Ps5 stock was practically non existent for the few months of 2022, whilst Xbox had pretty much no stock issues through out Europe in 2022.

Maybe in USA there stock issues where comparable and other smallers markets.

Series x was better in the first 4 months of 2022 when compared to ps5 but it was still very much in constraint.
 
There supply issues where nowhere near comparable. Ps5 stock was practically non existent for the few months of 2022, whilst Xbox had pretty much no stock issues through out Europe in 2022.

Maybe in USA there stock issues where comparable and other smallers markets.

I think the easiest way to view it Is tha the ps5 stock issue were similar to the series x stock issues, while not really having an alternative more accessible console on the shelves pretty much all year like the Series S.

The latter is what kept Microsoft in the race
 
Not read all of your post but I would put a bet with you that they have sold through 18 million easy. They are less than 100k units behind Sony for 2 of the largest markets of UK and USA in 2022. its almost mathematically impossible for Microsoft to not be over 18 million lifetime.

Then where's the PR statement? Why is it so hard for Microsoft to be consistently transparent with at least pronouncing system sale milestones if they are consistently trending ahead of prior consoles? No other platform holder seems to have this transparency or consistency problem, only Microsoft.

Are we even going to get Game Pass sub numbers this month? They gave them last January. I guess we'll have to wait nine more days.

Also, Microsoft is positioning itself in a way that they are not only reliant on sales of their consoles. They have strong presence on PC and subscription service for PC. That's why lower sales for Xbox consoles in comparison to PlayStation will not hurt them as much.

They are positioning themselves in that way by buying large publishers who already generate a huge amount of revenue which therein gets assimilated into the Xbox division's revenue. They are also doing things like increased peripheral presence/sales, and increased revenue from 3P advertisers getting attention and traffic through the Xbox console dashboard. Things like that.

If they had not purchased Zenimax, were not in the process of attempting to acquire ABK, and had reduced 3P ad partner presence through the Xbox OS, that revenue increase would be monumentally harder for them to achieve. And while yes they are increasing it, and plan to increase it further, even aside from console sales, the question can be asked if those methods being used to increase revenue are genuinely healthy for consumers or the larger market.

And, in what way(s) would they be, if so.

Which is not that great for Sony since they actually predicted that they will increase their market share this gen. Which I doubt will happen

_F9E6C0CB_2F38_4D14_8FC6_103919AD0D53_.png.jpg

Companies can increase their market share in a multitude of ways. We already discussed how Microsoft are primarily going about that. For Sony their plan is increased volume of software sales from 3P games on PS platforms (which already looks to have manifested in some cases, extremely so in a particular few i.e Square-Enix, Capcom etc.), and by having recurrent revenue streams from 1P GaaS/live-service titles.

They also count hardware revenue to this and even if overall console sales for PS5 this gen aren't notably more than PS4, the fact Sony doesn't have a significantly cheaper SKU model contributing to their hardware revenue means that even if they sold a small percent of less PS5s than Microsoft sells Series, they would generate more hardware revenue and that contributes to their market share. Most of the Series consoles being sold are the Series S model, and as we saw over the holidays, they can be dropped to very low prices.

That could help with install base numbers but not with revenue, and Game Pass subs aren't guaranteed to make up for the reduced hardware revenue because for starters, not every Series S owner has Game Pass. Not only that, but if the ARPU remains where it's likely at despite install base unit increases, then you won't see exponential increases in division revenue from any Game Pass contribution at the very least.

That's 90k units for the entire year difference....for Spain

A drop in the ocean.

Japan is one million units.
A large market....

I need to know where another 3 to 4 million units are coming from for the rest of the world.

Italy, France, Argentina, South Africa, South Korea, China, Phillipines, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Canada, Portugal, India, Indonesia, Thailand, Egypt....

...there are a LOT of countries in this world, my dude. They may not account for much individually but combined? Well, we saw how they helped PS3 edge out 360 despite 360's dominance in the US & UK that gen. Microsoft don't have that factor this generation, where at best they'll stay a close 2nd (between them and Sony anyway; Nintendo could either outsell them both or crater depending on how Switch 2 is received). And they are still weak in many global markets outside of the US & UK, to this day.

All the smaller ones start to add up.
 
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Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Sony were at approx 17 million PS5 sold by end 2021. In this thread’s OP, Ampere predicted 18 million units sold in 2022, which would have taken PS5 sales to 35 million by now.
If you think their prediction is ‘close’ and there’s no significant difference between 30 and 35, I don’t know what to say to you.
The 35 million (total) forecast (18m for 2022) was actually from Sony's. It wasn't something that Ampere projected. Sony couldn't resolve their supply chain issues and, therefore, missed their mark for 2022, and sold only 30 million units LTD.

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We have estimates for xbox for end of 2021 as ‘over 12 million’. Based on Microsoft confirming Xbox Series consoles had outsold both the 360 and Xbox One, launch aligned. Ampere estimates of 13 million by end june 2022 are thus not credible, especially with Xbox Series having record H1 2022 hardware sales.
That Daniel Ahmed's tweet is overestimating the actual data we have.

Launch aligned, Microsoft sold less than 10 million units by EOY 2006 and slightly more than 10 million Xbox One by EOY 2014. So Xbox Series X|S being the best-selling console could be as low as 10.5 million units. Daniel's jump to 12 million is an overestimation.
 

reksveks

Member
The 35 million (total) forecast (18m for 2022) was actually from Sony's. It wasn't something that Ampere projected. Sony couldn't resolve their supply chain issues and, therefore, missed their mark for 2022, and sold only 30 million units LTD.
Think either mixing up FY and CY or slightly jumping the gun.

They don't forecast CY only FY so can't say they missed their market for 2022. Their 18m forecast could include a crazy FY22Q4 (jan-mach)
 
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