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[Max_Po]

Be careful, there may be a lot of stupid questions ahead.. you have been warned.



Good Afternoon everyone, I am thinking of buying a mini van. Previously, I bought (fully paid) a used car Toyota Camery 2007 SE for my parents and still used local transportation. Now we have baby number 2 on the way so we are thinking of upgrading.

Things we dealth with Camery,
My brother uses the car, can change oil and normal tire rotation. I am not really into cars.
If you don't know mechanics you get royally ripped off. My brother has been ripped off many times .. (he never learns ...)
Sometimes the old car breaks and you spend 500+ dollars to get repaired.

We are looking to get New Toyota Sienna 2021

Question is buying vs leasing.

If I buy, I can put down 20K Canadian and the rest either take it from bank or Toyota's financing .. who ever gives better interest rate.
I have excellent credit ... I am the nutcase who pays the bill the day I receive them... Credit Cards Clear... etc

If I buy and go with financing, after 3 to 4 years of payments, the car will be mine but .. then the car will eventually need more care... more mechanic visits and $$$

If I go with lease, I can go back in 3.5 to 4 years (Depending on lease) and get a new van and does have to face the headaces of getting ripped off my mechanics ...


My question is, I have never leased a car before, after the lease do I still have my 20K if I opt out of lease ? I am sure there is some fees associated.

What would you guys recommend..?



Thanks for your time.

 

[Cravis]

I’ve always purchased never leased. I’d much rather own after the 4 or 5 years. Granted I don’t put a lot of miles on my vehicle. Got an 04 Tiburon with 155K miles on it and a 19 Ranger with 11K miles.

 

[T8SC]

I would never lease. To me, it's just money down the drain.

 

[haxan7]

Don’t lease

 

[juliushandle]

you can buy off the car after lease too after you depreciated it yourself.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

Ive exclusively leased, though im getting ready to buy as my kids get older.

if you lease try to do a 2-3 year lease, 4yr lease is a rip because your tires typically need replacing around yr 3-3.5, so youll pay for new tires and then have to turn it in, also negotiate for higher milage per year, even if you dont think youll drive that much, its good to have the buffer than be forced to cut it close and keep it in mind, any mile over is very costly in the end. Benefit for the lease is they typically will cover your check ups and oil changes etc annually so you never really have to worry about much.
Also the check up on the car once youre ready to turn it in is easy, theyre pretty lenient with the dents etc. as long as you dont mind the “renting” aspect.. its nice to always drive a fresh reliable car. And you dont have to worry about its long term care, so its easy to be carefree with it… you can say this with all tech but i feel like cars are quickly innovating with batteries, so any time put off the better at this point, but thats just me…

imo, with two kids (4 and 2), i would lease, because kids destroy cars, at least mine do, so you can get it stickered up, crumbs and liquids spilled, and just get it out of your hair, THEN buy when they are a bit older and more controllable.

plus youre not locked in if you dont like the car or realize youd rather get a suburban.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

If you plan on driving the car into the ground, are willing to pay for repairs past warranties (you arent the kind of guy to buy big extended warranties), and are ok with the hassle of selling a car, then buy.

If you want an easy way to change cars every 4 years with the option to buy it out, lease.

Changing a car every 4 years is good to avoid big car problems later because you shouldnt get any in the first 4 years. And if if you get a lemon, it's covered under lease warranty anyway.

 

[Billbofet]

I never buy a car new. You lose 30-40% residual value in the first year or two. I would buy a used 2019 with low miles - not a rental car, though.

That said, do whatever works best for you and yours. Pros and cons either way,

 

[Ownage]

Buy used or lease new.

 

[TransTrender]

Last time I did this for a friend we worked out the math the the additional out of pocket at the end of the day was about $150 after 3 years.
So it cost him about $150 more after three years of leasing versus financing and how everything would look at terminus assuming he would then buy/finance the car at that point and then TCO over a total of 5 years.
It was a good experiment to get elbow deep in this stuff and see how much more it would 'cost' to do it in order to have the flexibility after 3 years in case his family or living situation changed.
Of course there were many personal and market factors which drive the math and offers, so not everyone will have the same experience based on their credit, financial history, living situation, state/county/zip code, or make/model of the car you're looking at.

Given current conditions I would probably finance a car since you're paying in 2021 dollars and inflation/prices will be going through the fucking roof sooner or later here.


There used to be a time when used cars were a great deal but that time is passed. I think the last time the used market was making really broad sense was 2017, maybe?
Not that deals can't be had....well....at this point I'd say a screaming deal is a 1 in a million chance these days, but there are a lot of reasons buying new makes sense, except that the average cost of a new car is crazy high because everything a fucking crossoverSUV or something on top of the crazily constrained availability.

 

[TylerD]

For a Toyota, I wouldn't hesitate to buy new at this time, putting no more than 10% down and financing the rest for 4 or 5 years at the lowest interest rate possible. The chances of you having any major issues with it should easily be taken care of within the factory warranty period and then you should have many years of practically worry free driving assuming you keep up on very basic maintenance. If you decide you want something else after 5 or 6 years, being a Toyota, the private party resale value should still be high and I assume that trade-in value towards a new vehicle would also be strong.

 

[AJUMP23]

Why don’t you save 5 to 10 thousand and by a used sienna. That is what I did. I bought one from a rental company under 20k miles and saved $10k. Then finance what you don’t have saved. Never lease a car, it makes the dealer money and you miserable.

 

[Max_Po]

Why don’t you save 5 to 10 thousand and by a used sienna. That is what I did. I bought one from a rental company under 20k miles and saved $10k. Then finance what you don’t have saved. Never lease a car, it makes the dealer money and you miserable.

Well the new one is Hybrid, has smaller engine and better fuel economy. Base model is 40,000 + fees

I am in Toronto, ON Canada

Checking out a used 2019 model in great condition, the sellers are asking anywhere from 34k to 37k

If I lease, I can put down 5500 security deposit and get a rate of 3.49% or better.

If I finance, I can put down 20K, but I am not sure how the new car works after that. Do I sell it myself or trade it in at Toyota ?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Well the new one is Hybrid, has smaller engine and better fuel economy. Base model is 40,000 + fees

I am in Toronto, ON Canada

Checking out a used 2019 model in great condition, the sellers are asking anywhere from 34k to 37k

If I lease, I can put down 5500 security deposit and get a rate of 3.49% or better.

If I finance, I can put down 20K, but I am not sure how the new car works after that. Do I sell it myself or trade it in at Toyota ?

Financing means you own it.

So after you put down a deposit, you get a loan for the rest and how long the term is is what you agree to do. After it's paid off it's yours. From there, selling or trading it in is all on you to do bargaining with buyers or dealerships to take it off your hands.

 

[AJUMP23]

Well the new one is Hybrid, has smaller engine and better fuel economy. Base model is 40,000 + fees

I am in Toronto, ON Canada

Checking out a used 2019 model in great condition, the sellers are asking anywhere from 34k to 37k

If I lease, I can put down 5500 security deposit and get a rate of 3.49% or better.

If I finance, I can put down 20K, but I am not sure how the new car works after that. Do I sell it myself or trade it in at Toyota ?

You own it. You drive it for 100 years because it is a Toyota and then sell it.

When you are ready to get rid of the car you can trade it in and get a fair but less than retail value for the car. Or you can sell it using any number of methods. You could give it away for tax reasons. you just have to transfer the Title to the new owner and a signed bill of sale. Check your laws for clarification but if you finance you own. It is a car loan.

 

[TylerD]

Why don’t you save 5 to 10 thousand and by a used sienna. That is what I did. I bought one from a rental company under 20k miles and saved $10k. Then finance what you don’t have saved. Never lease a car, it makes the dealer money and you miserable.

When did you buy your used Sienna? Used prices are so high right now that I don't see it making much sense. Personally, the last thing I would do is buy a used vehicle from a rental car company. That under 20K miles were probably really hard miles.

Ideally, OP would be able to wait until the chip shortage and supply issues for new vehicles get worked out and maybe used prices will be somewhat more reasonable. Since there is very little new inventory right now the used market is insanely high.

 

[Nester99]

It’s a Toyota, buy it, maintain it and drive it till your kids go to college.

Used cars are insanely overpriced right now do to COVID.

 

[The Pleasure]

Some places may offer to sell you the car after the lease is up. That can be an option. But most people lease to not have to worry about repairs and continually get that new car smell.

 

[l2ounD]

If its a car you think you'll keep for over 7 years buy it. It'll save you money the longer keep it running.
If you dont mind always having a lease payment in your budget then enjoy a newer every couple years

 

[haxan7]

Some places may offer to sell you the car after the lease is up. That can be an option. But most people lease to not have to worry about repairs and continually get that new car smell.

 

[AJUMP23]

When did you buy your used Sienna? Used prices are so high right now that I don't see it making much sense. Personally, the last thing I would do is buy a used vehicle from a rental car company. That under 20K miles were probably really hard miles.

Ideally, OP would be able to wait until the chip shortage and supply issues for new vehicles get worked out and maybe used prices will be somewhat more reasonable. Since there is very little new inventory right now the used market is insanely high.

2017


I have not looked at used cars in a while so the market now may have changed, but traditionally a used program car has been the way to go.

 

[Amory]

Borrowing rates are very low right now, so the smarter option is to buy.

The chip shortage has also greatly constrained supply of new cars, and one of the results has been comically high per-month lease payments. My friend always prefers to lease for whatever reason, and even he's given up on the idea because every dealer wants like $700/month for a pretty basic SUV.

 

[Thaedolus]

If you can wait, I’m pretty sure now is a terrible time to get into a vehicle. I got a 2018 truck in March right before shit started going crazy with the used market. I got it at auction for about 4k under blue book, and the same year and model trucks now are going for about 10k more than I paid now. It’s insane, if I waited just a few weeks longer I would’ve just given up due to the prices

 

[McHuj]

I think it really depends on the brand as well. I’d buy a Toyota, Lexus, Honda. In my opinion, only these brands are built to last and have reasonable maintenance cost. I’d only lease a European luxury brand due post warranty cost of repairs.

to me car depreciation is a non factor if you you buy for the long term as all car values approach zero.

 

[AmuroChan]

I've bought and leased cars before and both options have pros and cons.

- The smart thing to do financially is obviously to buy, because you own the car after you pay off the loan. The downside is you will be dealing with an aging car eventually.
- If money is not an issue for you, leasing may be the ideal option. You get a brand new car every 3-4 years. You never have to deal with an aging car breaking down. These days most dealerships make the process very easy for you. They'll even come pick up your car and drop off your new one when the lease is up.

For me, purchasing was the right option for me in my 20s and early 30s because money was tight, but since I started making good money I've been leasing and I have no regrets so far.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

Do you have a business where you can write off a big portion of the lease? Lease it.

If not, then finance.

 

[ClanOfNone]

I have two requirements from a car. That it gets me from point A to B, and the air blows cold.
I always buy, I love having a paid off car and that cheaper insurance is a nice bonus.

 

[AJUMP23]

Do you have a business where you can write off a big portion of the lease? Lease it.

If not, then finance.

If you have a business you can write off the purchase and then take depreciation. That is even more of a tax write off.

 

[8bitpill]

I leased my first car in 2018. It was the first car I ever "purchased". Before that my wife had her car and there wasn't a need for a second car. Didn't need a car where I grew up since I was right in the city.

Leasing was the best option. I leased a Volkswagen Tiguan 2019. The financing to leasing per month price was about a $100 different. Financing was $460 per month and the leasing was $359 per month. This came with the option to buy at the end of the three year lease. The lease was 30K miles. We knew we wouldn't go too much over since we run a home business and don't drive all that much. But I was also pretty set with buying this car so I knew that pretty much the first six months of leasing it, so the 30K cap wasn't a issue.

This November I have the choice to buy it and the financing will be something like $30 less than the leasing per month.

Our VW came wit a 70K tire warranty.

We were going to lease the ID.4 but want to wait a couple of years since that vehicle is new this year and want to wait a to see how it performs over a couple of years.

 

[Punished Miku]

Car prices are quite high at the moment from what I've heard.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

If you have a business you can write off the purchase and then take depreciation. That is even more of a tax write off.

Oh for sure, I was kinda just driving home the point that there is a very narrow niche where leasing would even make sense, but I guess in the end yeah buy it and write it off too haha.

If you like pissing away money to have a car you will never own, have to watch your mileage, and any sort of damage (or they'll nail you with fees) just to have them turn around and try and sell you the vehicle once the lease is up when you could've just bought it in the first place...go ahead I guess. It seems ridiculous to me.

There's a reason dealerships push leasing so hard, and that reason is certainly not in your best interests.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

I leased my first car in 2018. It was the first car I ever "purchased". Before that my wife had her car and there wasn't a need for a second car. Didn't need a car where I grew up since I was right in the city.

Leasing was the best option. I leased a Volkswagen Tiguan 2019. The financing to leasing per month price was about a $100 different. Financing was $460 per month and the leasing was $359 per month. This came with the option to buy at the end of the three year lease. The lease was 30K miles. We knew we wouldn't go too much over since we run a home business and don't drive all that much. But I was also pretty set with buying this car so I knew that pretty much the first six months of leasing it, so the 30K cap wasn't a issue.

This November I have the choice to buy it and the financing will be something like $30 less than the leasing per month.

Our VW came wit a 70K tire warranty.

We were going to lease the ID.4 but want to wait a couple of years since that vehicle is new this year and want to wait a to see how it performs over a couple of years.

This doesn't sound ideal at all though, this sounds like you were pushing for a vehicle you couldn't (or didn't want to) afford in the first place. Now the dealership gets to double dip on your purchase. Three years of sweet profit for them, AND they get to finance the vehicle to you afterwards?! Youre a dealerships ideal customer. The whole idea sounds ludicrous.

 

[Warnen]

Just traded in my 2011 Mini Cooper Clubman S (65k miles) for a 2021 Dodge Challenger SXT Plus. Trade in prices are way up at the moment got just under 9k for mine and some good sales are out there as well if you get lucky.

I have family that likes to lease cars but they change them out every 3 years so might be worth it if you like to change things up a lot but as other mentioned much longer then that and your into tires and such so prob not worth it.

I tend to keep good care of my stuff, besides normal matnece on the mini (oil, tires/brakes, etc) and a few recal/warranty repairs only ever had one big bill with the mini. About 2 years ago had a bad head gasket and it cost like $5k to fix (had to take car apart to get at it). When the check engine like popped up again it was time to trade it in

 

[8bitpill]

This doesn't sound ideal at all though, this sounds like you were pushing for a vehicle you couldn't (or didn't want to) afford in the first place. Now the dealership gets to double dip on your purchase. Three years of sweet profit for them, AND they get to finance the vehicle to you afterwards?! Youre a dealerships ideal customer. The whole idea sounds ludicrous.

I could afford it without a problem. Leasing was the better option. It wasn't about the price, that was just to give a little insight in case someone is going off of price. There are more details I'm not detailing out, but I had my eye on a Tiguan for a couple of years prior to leasing one. I wanted to make sure it was the right fit so I didn't want to purchase it out right, kind of like a three year test drive. If it wasn't up to the standards I was looking for in a vehicle, I would have just moved onto something else from the dealer

I also had my Father in law go over the details with me since he had 40 plus years of buying and leasing vehicles. It was sound and the better option for our situation. At the end of the day it all depending on the needs and wants of said person.

We can't all be pro consumers, companies are there to make profit. If you're offering a easy transaction, along with a vehicle that will keep myself and family safe while driving, let me feed into that profit.

 

[McHuj]

I’ll add that I’m thinking about leasing my next car instead of buying because it will likely be an electric one and given that the EV industry is so rapid evolving I fear the tech that comes in these cars will obsolete very quickly.

I guess I’m the kind of guy that’s either-or and nothing in between. Give me a Tesla to lease or a naturally aspirated V8 to buy.