ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Your point?
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Ray Tracing is not meaningful and is a dumbness Galore demand
- Thread starter TrueLegend
- Start date
Good comparisons.Good old SSR yeah, fuck RT
Already showed you on my previous post lol
It's also really good in non-photorealistic games. Say what you want about Fortnite, but it looks good with RT.
GymWolf
Member
I know, i tried all forms of rtx, i can barely notice all of these things outside of cherry picked screenshots, not just the reflections.
But i can immediately notice shitty textures, lower res\framerate.
The only one i haven't tried is the rtx revamp in metro exodus.
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explain why
YeulEmeralda
Member
RT is irrelevant until we get a console that can actually pull it off.
Guilty_AI
Member
RT is only really useful in certain circunstances, otherwise the increase in IQ is marginal.
Large, procedurally generated, dynamic worlds with a lot of verticality and interior areas would be the ideal use case of RT. Minecraft remains, unironically, one of the best use cases of RT so far.
On the other hand, RT in a linear game with static lightining like Tomb Raider would be barely noticeable to anyone who doesn't know what to look for.
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lostinblue
Banned
RT is a great hardware development and a good thing to have. I agree though, that I don't feel it's relevant enough right now, doesn't warrant me spending hundreds of extra dollars and I will most likely prefer framerate to having it. It's a nice to have on enthusiast consumer tech.
But it's in it's infancy and we'll look back to stuff coming out now as early examples decades from now, like we look to Playstation 1 even doing 3D, or X360 doing HD. Doing so much with so little is full of caveats, basically.
Also there's no guarantee that when power becomes enough it'll still be deployed as it is today (might or might not). Basically like how 90's 3D acceleration is mostly broken on modern cards, or dependent on wrappers. Again, they were doing omeletes with barely any eggs. RT specially on current gen consoles is just that, but look at it as free sneak peak, or something like VU's on PS2 and SPE's on PS3. They're just there, so why not use them.
But it's in it's infancy and we'll look back to stuff coming out now as early examples decades from now, like we look to Playstation 1 even doing 3D, or X360 doing HD. Doing so much with so little is full of caveats, basically.
Also there's no guarantee that when power becomes enough it'll still be deployed as it is today (might or might not). Basically like how 90's 3D acceleration is mostly broken on modern cards, or dependent on wrappers. Again, they were doing omeletes with barely any eggs. RT specially on current gen consoles is just that, but look at it as free sneak peak, or something like VU's on PS2 and SPE's on PS3. They're just there, so why not use them.
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Just imagine what Naughty Dog would pull of with RT then.Vick come here show these fuckers what uncharted 4 does without RT on a potato hardware
Or should we announce that 2020 is the date when the graphics improvements should stop because of Uncharted 4?
Some ppl...
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lostinblue
Banned
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
RT would mean that ND would have to do poor quality but real time RT, instead of very high quality baked solution with some cheating to get dynamic lights.
I am sure we will see.
And uc4 came out in 2016. 7 years ago was the day the graphics peaked
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If you have zero imagination, then yes.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
you need a hell lot of imagination to see the graphics improvements since uc4 lol that is correct
If you really think that graphics cannot be improved from now on, then there is no point arguing with you. I guess the CGI movie stuff is in UE4 already, I bet Avatar 2 runs on UE4.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Are we talking about cgi or effective game graphics in games because I know I am talking about games and uc4 stands tall about any other new game released today. Sure, games do look a bit better but it's not so obvious
Game graphics ultimate aim is to look like CGI movies. And there is a hell long way to go yet, so claiming that graphics peaked already is fucking stupid take.
Guilty_AI
Member
Time to sell all your pcs and consoles then, just keep a switch and a deck at hand.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Bruh you can't be serious. UC4 was one of my fav game when it released and it looked incredible (still looks good). But saying that improvements after that are small or that RT wouldn't make it look better is just wrong. Even with its baked lighting there are still many things wrong. Games like UC4 would actually benefit alot if they used RT. And the graphics improved alots since UC4, and im saying that after i replayed it 4 months ago on my PS5.
Gaiff
Member
Lol are you serious? Uncharted 4 didn't even look great in 2016, let alone in 2023. It got dunked on by games like Crysis 3 or Battlefront 2, and later Sony games like GOW. It did have nice physics and animations but nothing else about it was impressive. Bad textures, bad foliage and outside of cutscenes it didn't look good at all. TLOU2 improved immensely upon it.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
wrong. What are you even saying? crysis 3 ? hahaha get out of here with this shit.
Dude what are those screenshots? Are you for real?Bruh you can't be serious. UC4 was one of my fav game when it released and it looked incredible (still looks good). But saying that improvements after that are small or that RT wouldn't make it look better is just wrong. Even with its baked lighting there are still many things wrong. Games like UC4 would actually benefit alot if they used RT. And the graphics improved alots since UC4, and im saying that after i replayed it 4 months ago on my PS5.
These are my shots from last year when I replayed the game on ps5. I have 300 screenshots from that single playhrough. Are you kidding me with this crap?
Mind you this is lowly, compressed jpg off of ps5. I am playing with HDR and screenshots are compressed below 1mb.
The shit looks insane with HDR on oled.
and one hdr screenshot although from old phone, so maybe it doesnt capture it well enough
I have all my games screenshots on 1 minute randomizer on oled and every time uc4 screenshot pops in, the shit looks stunning.
Gaiff
Member
No, not this bullshit photo mode again. And the character models look way better in cutscenes. Look at what photo mode does for the image quality:
Photo Mode:
Actual gameplay
See how much cleaner Photo Mode looks? This is actual gameplay and not bullshit Photo Mode screenshots with filters or cutscenes.
And that's from The Legacy of Thieves Collection maxed out. PS4 looks worse than this.
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It does. However, levels in UC are mostly static, with a set day time, fixed spotlights and only few dynamic light sources. They can carefully place static lighting and shadows when they have full control over the world that doesn't change (unless the player triggers it and they developed another 'state' of the world) . If you have games with let's say dynamic global lighting due to day time changes (e. g. often in open world games) or interactive environment that can be altered or even be destroyed, you don't have this kind of control over the realism of a scene unless you're using ray tracing.
That's why linear games with fixed levels often look better than highly dynamic worlds you'll find in open world games.
RaySoft
Member
Most think of what RT can do for you, but RT's most key ability is what RT can do for the devs.
Instead of having a person to painstakingly place different lightsources around in a scene, you just hand the whole job off to the engine.
It's a win-win situation really. We get more true to life lightning, and the devs can save time at the same time. The only bad side is temporary, since hardware will soon be designed around RT to a point that it will be more or less "free" anyways.
Instead of having a person to painstakingly place different lightsources around in a scene, you just hand the whole job off to the engine.
It's a win-win situation really. We get more true to life lightning, and the devs can save time at the same time. The only bad side is temporary, since hardware will soon be designed around RT to a point that it will be more or less "free" anyways.
Umbasaborne
Banned
Ill have to boot it up again, it was low res and ass on my pc
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
So outside that 1 gameplay shot, you posted 2 close up cutscene shots and 3 small interior shots from the last house (which is the best looking level). I have also played it on my 55 inch oled in HDR at 4K, finished 2 times on PS4Pro and 1 time on PS5 the remaster with the DLC. And i didn't say that it looked wrong or bad all the time, ofcourse there are good looking areas, i have even posted them some months ago in the remaster thread. But the problem is that there are still lots of areas not looking that good and RT would fix most of those areas. Showing baked lighting from small rooms and faces from cutscene is not a good way to show UC4 lighting problems during gameplay which mostly is in caves and jungles. Also photomode enhances the graphics in UC4 so next time just post some gameplay shots.wrong. What are you even saying? crysis 3 ? hahaha get out of here with this shit.
Dude what are those screenshots? Are you for real?
These are my shots from last year when I replayed the game on ps5. I have 300 screenshots from that single playhrough. Are you kidding me with this crap?
Mind you this is lowly, compressed jpg off of ps5. I am playing with HDR and screenshots are compressed below 1mb.
The shit looks insane with HDR on oled.
and one hdr screenshot although from old phone, so maybe it doesnt capture it well enough
I have all my games screenshots on 1 minute randomizer on oled and every time uc4 screenshot pops in, the shit looks stunning.
It looks much much better than Forespoken i give you that
yamaci17
Member
I disagree. here are games where I think ray tracing is amazing
First and foremost, Witcher 3+ Cyberpunk.
Both games have stellar RTGI+Rt shadows . Yes, rt shadows is like a meme in halo and elden ring. but not in these games. its a legit huge improvement in graphics. both games have exquisite open world full day time designs that lend themselves well into the sun shadows. elden ring's open world owes its beauty to its art style and its a technical shitshow. halo is even worse.
W3 RTGI+rtao+rtshadows is a huge upgrade to visuals. it was a genuine pleasure to play the game. i already finished witcher 3 almost 3 times, and I went for the 4th
metro exodus enhanced has another supreme ray tracing implementation. breathtaking lighting. it looks so natural and beatiful and so realistic to a point it actually makes up for aged assets. (similar case for w3 too)
half life path tracing mod. amazing, simply another amazing addition. and made possible by a mere modder. you can literally see how path tracing rendepath can do the job of sophisticated renderers nowadays try to achieve with one single solution.
marvels spiderman's ray traced reflections is also another huge addition.
I'm glad I can still enjoy games at 30/40/45 FPS. most of the hate for ray tracing comes from people who does not want to compromise on 60+ FPS. I can understand them a bit. But personally, I'd prefer playing witcher 3 with full blown rtgi+40 fps instead of 120 FPS with no ray tracing. it looks that good for me personally. 40 FPS + VRR+ 120 hz is a godly smooth combo that has good input response (with full VRR+reflex) with pleasingly enough visual smoothness
First and foremost, Witcher 3+ Cyberpunk.
Both games have stellar RTGI+Rt shadows . Yes, rt shadows is like a meme in halo and elden ring. but not in these games. its a legit huge improvement in graphics. both games have exquisite open world full day time designs that lend themselves well into the sun shadows. elden ring's open world owes its beauty to its art style and its a technical shitshow. halo is even worse.
W3 RTGI+rtao+rtshadows is a huge upgrade to visuals. it was a genuine pleasure to play the game. i already finished witcher 3 almost 3 times, and I went for the 4th
metro exodus enhanced has another supreme ray tracing implementation. breathtaking lighting. it looks so natural and beatiful and so realistic to a point it actually makes up for aged assets. (similar case for w3 too)
half life path tracing mod. amazing, simply another amazing addition. and made possible by a mere modder. you can literally see how path tracing rendepath can do the job of sophisticated renderers nowadays try to achieve with one single solution.
marvels spiderman's ray traced reflections is also another huge addition.
I'm glad I can still enjoy games at 30/40/45 FPS. most of the hate for ray tracing comes from people who does not want to compromise on 60+ FPS. I can understand them a bit. But personally, I'd prefer playing witcher 3 with full blown rtgi+40 fps instead of 120 FPS with no ray tracing. it looks that good for me personally. 40 FPS + VRR+ 120 hz is a godly smooth combo that has good input response (with full VRR+reflex) with pleasingly enough visual smoothness
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Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Double post?
yamaci17
Member
yeah sorry, I wanted to edit but somehow made another post
The Finals uses RT GI so it can have good visuals and destruction, baked lighting has ruined dynamic game worlds for a whole generation. Your baked static worlds can go die in a fire, whats the point in great visuals when you cause an explosion near something like a car and it doesn't even move, let alone get damaged.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
What would make it “meaningful” and by what metrics would that be gauged?
Also everything that may be considered meaningful at some point wasn’t. There are going to be growing pains.
Also everything that may be considered meaningful at some point wasn’t. There are going to be growing pains.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Yup it perfectly shows why RT is the way to go with all that destruction. You cannot bake in all the lights in dynamic games and expect it to look right all the time. Just because some games with static worlds look good with fake baked lighting doesn't mean that RT is unnecessary.
Codeblew
Member
If you don't see it, there is no use in explaining it.
wrong. What are you even saying? crysis 3 ? hahaha get out of here with this shit.
Dude what are those screenshots? Are you for real?
These are my shots from last year when I replayed the game on ps5. I have 300 screenshots from that single playhrough. Are you kidding me with this crap?
Mind you this is lowly, compressed jpg off of ps5. I am playing with HDR and screenshots are compressed below 1mb.
The shit looks insane with HDR on oled.
I have all my games screenshots on 1 minute randomizer on oled and every time uc4 screenshot pops in, the shit looks stunning.
Uncharted 4 used prebaked lights and probes like there's no tomorrow. It's a work made by artists and you can't have the same results with any other game if you're not Naughty Dogs with Sony behind it.
UC4 has many issue when the character is not under the sun and other 150 light sources placed by hand, like caves and big areas.
sendit
Member
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Me and others have posted tons of screens/gifs that also doesn't have any of those and you can see immediately which one has RT.
winjer
Gold Member
AMD presented a tech demo on a system using Two-level Radiance Caching for Fast and Scalable Real-Time Dynamic GI in Games.
Not as good as full path-tracing, but good enough and much faster.
Not as good as full path-tracing, but good enough and much faster.
Honestly, they should've never told game nerds about ray tracing. If they can implement it without tanking the frame rate then just do it. It's a visual setting. Of course, on PC it should be another check box in visual settings because you can just brute force it on PC. On console, you either include it on an acceptable level or leave it out. You know if ray tracing looks like ass on your game. Why let that shit out the door Many of these talented graphical artists make beautiful games without ray tracing. It's okay to admit these consoles aren't ready on a whole, although there are some really talented programmers who can get it done on a game per game basis. Those tech demos showing ray tracing are just that: a demo.
YeulEmeralda
Member
You are conveniently forgetting that one requires a 1500 Eurodollars GPU and the other came with a PlayStation.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
yamaci17
Member
add this to the list. practically a 329 bucks msrp gpu
hey lowest end RTX gpu getting upwards of 50 frames at native 1080p with fully fledged RTGI? should be heresy. almost as if optimized ray tracing settings do not exist within the ray tracing scheme of things
German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
This is just the beginning.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
They think it only works if you have a RTX 4090 or you need to max out at 4K to see RT. There are soo many people with a even stronger card than the RTX 2060 you showed like RTX 2070, 2070 Super, 2080, 2080 Super, 2080ti, 3060, 3060ti, 3070, 3070ti, 3080, 3080ti, 3090, 3090ti, 4070ti, 4080, 4090, and AMD RX6700 XT, 6800, 6800XT, 6900XT, 7900XT and 7900XTX. All of those cards can display RT and most of them are alot cheaper than 1000$ let alone 1500$.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
most of my shots are not photo mode thoughNo, not this bullshit photo mode again. And the character models look way better in cutscenes. Look at what photo mode does for the image quality:
Photo Mode:
Actual gameplay
See how much cleaner Photo Mode looks? This is actual gameplay and not bullshit Photo Mode screenshots with filters or cutscenes.
And that's from The Legacy of Thieves Collection maxed out. PS4 looks worse than this.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I played the game in 4k30 mode and it looked as sharp in gameplay as in photo mode.So outside that 1 gameplay shot, you posted 2 close up cutscene shots and 3 small interior shots from the last house (which is the best looking level). I have also played it on my 55 inch oled in HDR at 4K, finished 2 times on PS4Pro and 1 time on PS5 the remaster with the DLC. And i didn't say that it looked wrong or bad all the time, ofcourse there are good looking areas, i have even posted them some months ago in the remaster thread. But the problem is that there are still lots of areas not looking that good and RT would fix most of those areas. Showing baked lighting from small rooms and faces from cutscene is not a good way to show UC4 lighting problems during gameplay which mostly is in caves and jungles. Also photomode enhances the graphics in UC4 so next time just post some gameplay shots.
It looks much much better than Forespoken i give you that
it is actually good that photo mode enables 4k rendering ... for photos.
But let's not move the goal post here. I am saying that this game looks great. Not in photo mode or gameplay. I never even knew there is a difference
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I don't care how.
I see results. Every graphics is "cheating and shortcuts".
It seems unfair to look at rasterized techniques as inferior if they are giving similar results