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Rebuilding The Last of Us Part I: A deep dive into combat, animation, audio and visual changes with Naughty Dog

DForce

Member
Even in today's video addressing the technical side of the game they STILL skirted around the issue of what's improved over LoU2. Everything was compared to the ps3 game but what should matter is what's improved in 3 years since Part 2 now that we're on Ps5. They focused yet again only on cutscenes which do look great but what about the environments is improved over 2?There was a vague mention about lighting but they went into no detail.

Someone said this is the first real next gen game on ps5. I'd like to know how they watched trailers for this and came away thinking that. All I can maybe see some ambient occlusion indoors looks really great and the cutscenes. Ratchet has tons of npcs all doing complex animation and filling each scene, 4k res textures which hold up when zooming in the camera, ray tracing, great particle effects, lots of far distant detail and just smacks of next gen. Demons Souls has the best tesselation ever in a console game which would've been impossible on ps4. Horizon is open world with high res textures everywhere, greatly expanded lods, extremely detailed character models, great lighting and global illumination and dense geometry.

Last of Us remake looks exactly like Part 2. It's beautiful yes but so was Part 2. The character models in cutscenes are phenomenal looking and the ambient occlusion seems really excellent. I'm hoping this dynamic 4k/60 will result in a higher overall resolution than LoU2. That would help to be a clear improvement but we don't know if the final game will average out any higher than LoU2's 1440p res. How about the textures? They seem pretty good but are they better than Part 2? Do they have the same crazy detail that Demons Souls and Horizon have? I can't tell from the leaks which is not a good sign. The foliage is definitely not better than Part 2.

Today's video could've clarified some stuff and silenced people like me from complaining about the graphics.
The texture quality was low in The Last of Us Part II. Even the draw distance wasn't that great in many areas due to the PlayStation 4's limitations.

If you think the level of details on the enemy NPCs is exactly the same, then you're only lying to yourself.
 

ChiefDada

Member
... They are obviously saying that they improved it compared to the original release, not Part II

It's using same tech that Part II used.

Let's wait for Digital Foundry take then

Hmmm Digital Foundry, eh? The same guys who made an educated and reasonable, but ultimately incorrect, guess that Stray on PS5 was using RT reflections? Yet when I do the same thing and explain my reasoning, you mock me. Strange.

Ratchet and Clank is the only truly next gen game that's been shown so far IMO. It looks way better than this.

Horizon 2, in some areas, also looks as good as Ratchet, but is fairly inconsistent.

IMO Deathloop is the next best looking. People laugh at that idea because they can't see past the rather strange art style, but the actual fidelity of the lighting, draw distance, overall geometry etc is excellent. Again, much better than this.

Returnal and Demon's Souls are probably the next best. Returnal has higher highs - at times it just looks staggeringly good - but is VERY inconsistent.

I agree with your list (haven't played deathloop, so can't speak on that). I find it weird people can't see the clear visual leap but hey it is what it is.
 
Ratchet and Clank is the only truly next gen game that's been shown so far IMO. It looks way better than this.

Horizon 2, in some areas, also looks as good as Ratchet, but is fairly inconsistent.

IMO Deathloop is the next best looking. People laugh at that idea because they can't see past the rather strange art style, but the actual fidelity of the lighting, draw distance, overall geometry etc is excellent. Again, much better than this.

Returnal and Demon's Souls are probably the next best. Returnal has higher highs - at times it just looks staggeringly good - but is VERY inconsistent.


As for your images: here, please peruse this screen of TLOU2, which likewise 'proves' that it's better looking than this remake.


Fucking Deathloop?

This is just straight up trolling

I've been critical of TLOU1 Remake due to the price and the fact that it's not AS mind blowing as it should be. The gameplay looks the same as TLOU2, visually. But IF it gets a resolution bump that makes it clearer, that'll certainly help. But I was hoping more for that "nanite" type detail for mind blowing next-gen richness.

The cutscenes, however, are pretty much best-in-the industry from a visual standpoint.

So it absolutely is near the top of ANY game's visuals, literally DESTROYS Deathloop in so many ways, but it arguably doesn't reach the heights of Ratchet or Horizon overall. I think it looks better than Demon's Souls, which I think people view more favorably due to the big gap it has over the PS3 game rather than on the stunning visuals by itself. Don't get me wrong, Demon's Souls is an amazing looking game, but I'm not sure I'd claim it's at the top of the next gen tier.
 
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DForce

Member
The Last of Us Remake

The Last of Us Remaster

Her animation in the Remake looks similar to The Last of Us Part II
 

SlimySnake

Member
The way that our melee system has evolved is monumental,” Wohlwend said. “So we were able to use all those new development tools from the Last of Us Part II in this remake. It makes it much more flexible, easier to improve and prevent bugs, and elevates everything there.”

In italy we call this "having your face like your ass"

Boy it must be sad for these devs to lie with a smile on their face to make jimbo happy.


Monumental...i'm still laughin:lollipop_grinning_smiling_eyes:

Barely any game in existence from the same saga change the combat in a monumental way, let alone this thing being less evolved than the previous entry from 4 years ago.


See, this is the type of shit that people call out sony for when they talk about false marketing.

But english in not my native language, maybe monumental really means barely...
No, its not you. It's their marketing. For example, "leveraging ALL of latest PS5 tech."

We sought to make The Last of Us Part I authentic to the original -- while leveraging all the newest PS5 tech we could have only dreamed of almost 10 years ago.

Its just marketing. Just ignore it.
 
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Hunnybun

Member
Fucking Deathloop?

This is just straight up trolling

I've been critical of TLOU1 Remake due to the price and the fact that it's not AS mind blowing as it should be. The gameplay looks the same as TLOU2, visually. But IF it gets a resolution bump that makes it clearer, that'll certainly help. But I was hoping more for that "nanite" type detail for mind blowing next-gen richness.

The cutscenes, however, are pretty much best-in-the industry from a visual standpoint.

So it absolutely is near the top of ANY game's visuals, literally DESTROYS Deathloop in so many ways, but it arguably doesn't reach the heights of Ratchet or Horizon overall. I think it looks better than Demon's Souls, which I think people view more favorably due to the big gap it has over the PS3 game rather than on the stunning visuals by itself. Don't get me wrong, Demon's Souls is an amazing looking game, but I'm not sure I'd claim it's at the top of the next gen tier.

I'm not claiming DS as top of the next gen tier either. In fact I put it at the bottom of the 5 next gen games I've played - and I actually can't think of any others that have even been released. Oh, Ghostwire - not played that. I suppose FH5 counts too, but again not played it.

I'm serious about Deathloop. I knew before I posted that that people would react with incredulous and puerile laughing emojis, but to me they're just idiots who can't see past a quirky aesthetic to the underlying technical fidelity.

It's not as good as Ratchet or the best of HFW, but it's still clearly a next gen game in terms of poly count, lighting, texture work, draw distance, depth of field etc and other effects etc.

In terms of cutscenes in TLOU, though - you could be right, but I just don't CARE. I've genuinely no interest in how cutscenes look. Generally they look much worse than gameplay to me, but even when they don't they're still an irrelevance compared to the actual in game graphics.
 
I'm not claiming DS as top of the next gen tier either. In fact I put it at the bottom of the 5 next gen games I've played - and I actually can't think of any others that have even been released. Oh, Ghostwire - not played that. I suppose FH5 counts too, but again not played it.

I'm serious about Deathloop. I knew before I posted that that people would react with incredulous and puerile laughing emojis, but to me they're just idiots who can't see past a quirky aesthetic to the underlying technical fidelity.

It's not as good as Ratchet or the best of HFW, but it's still clearly a next gen game in terms of poly count, lighting, texture work, draw distance, depth of field etc and other effects etc.

In terms of cutscenes in TLOU, though - you could be right, but I just don't CARE. I've genuinely no interest in how cutscenes look. Generally they look much worse than gameplay to me, but even when they don't they're still an irrelevance compared to the actual in game graphics.
Demons Souls deserves its place in the top 3 best looking games man. The game is insane looking. Tesselation had never been used in a console game to the extent it is in DS. The lighting is phenomenal. Game looks next gen. It's a close race between DS, Ratchet and Forbidden West. I agree Deathloop is criminally underrated graphically.
 

Hunnybun

Member
Demons Souls deserves its place in the top 3 best looking games man. The game is insane looking. Tesselation had never been used in a console game to the extent it is in DS. The lighting is phenomenal. Game looks next gen. It's a close race between DS, Ratchet and Forbidden West. I agree Deathloop is criminally underrated graphically.

It's good looking for sure, but I've always just found something slightly off about it. Like the whole is less than the sum of the parts somehow.

It doesn't really scream next gen to me the way Ratchet and Horizon do.

I know it's not a pervasive issue, but just as an example: wtf is up with the quality of the human models in the game?! All those people in the temple/church/whatever it's called - the models are bad by LAST gen standards, let alone THIS gen's!

There are plenty of other issues I could struggle to describe, but those models just seem so blatant that I guess that makes the point.
 
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decisions

Member
Won’t buy this as I don’t want to support the precedent of paying full-price for improved versions of the same game every 5-8 years. $70 Bloodborne and the Witcher 3 coming up next I bet.

Remakes can be worth it when a game becomes seriously outdated…This is not that.
 
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Stooky

Member
"Crouch is not prone, where the player can see under objects. Tell where that exist in tlou. "

It exists on the entirety of TLOU Part 2. A game with maps MUCH bigger than Part 1, nonetheless.

"Then you have add the in the Ai search functions all the animations to support that"

Like the ones used in Part II that they could easily port? Like the other animations (and AI) that they are already porting? I see

"“ Put up some invisible walls?” BAD, crappy horrible idea, are you a gamer? You know that’s bad game design right?"

You know that every game has invisible walls, right? Including that very linear game called The Last of Us for the PS3?

All they had to do was to put a chair on the debris that's already there blocking the player's passage. WOW, that would require some work. Specially since they are already redesigning and remodeling every map in the game.

You can keep defending them all you want. But trying to make it justifiable is plain stupid.
Not defending anybody I’m stating the facts of what it take to do what you are suggesting. Understand That everything you mentioned would require a complete redesign of the game. There is No quick port of anything you mentioned At all. Its so great when gamer fanboys try to expend their immense knowledge of game design as fact lol. Suggest that to a dev, I would love to see that reaction.
 
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ChiefDada

Member
Deathloop looks like ass for last gen, let alone next gen

I got this same impression just looking at the marketing but gave him the benefit of the doubt since I haven't played it.

Today's video could've clarified some stuff and silenced people like me from complaining about the graphics.

I'm sure they'll manage lol.

Remakes can be worth it when a game becomes seriously outdated…This is not that.

When standing side by side with Pt. 1, yes the PS4 remaster looks especially dated. I think similar case can be made for the majority of games made pre PS4/XBONE generation.
 

Becausssee.......

I last played it 8 years ago. Since then, I've upgraded my gear to an oled and atmos setup and would like to replay one of the best story games ever made. So I may as well enjoy the best version.

Is that ok?
Who said it's not OK and why are you taking it personally? We have to keep these companies held to high standards or else they'll keep giving us less while charging more. There's nothing wrong with you buying it and enjoying it but please don't act like the pricing is in line with normal prices for games. Even 5 year ago this woulda been unheard of at $70 no multiplayer, no upgrade path, etc

I think this is the problem with lot of you guys. Instead of getting annoyed that Sony is treating you like crap you get annoyed at the people who can are calling them on their anti consumer practices because you want to not feel bad that you're excited about the game.
 

DeepSpace5D

Member
Who said it's not OK and why are you taking it personally? We have to keep these companies held to high standards or else they'll keep giving us less while charging more. There's nothing wrong with you buying it and enjoying it but please don't act like the pricing is in line with normal prices for games. Even 5 year ago this woulda been unheard of at $70 no multiplayer, no upgrade path, etc

I think this is the problem with lot of you guys. Instead of getting annoyed that Sony is treating you like crap you get annoyed at the people who can are calling them on their anti consumer practices because you want to not feel bad that you're excited about the game.
Look at the question being replied to though. “Why would anyone buy this?” To me, that is not calling out Sony on their practices. People can call out Sony all they want, and each individual should vote with their own wallet as a consumer.

But trying to influence the spending of others or make others feel bad about a purchase they want to make is uncalled for. I’ve seen people say that anyone who buys this is an idiot. To many people this is one of their favorite games of all time. For me personally, it’s in my top 5 all time. Of course I’m going to get the best version of one of my favorite games.

The market will decide what is and is not worth a purchase. Just my two cents.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Who said it's not OK and why are you taking it personally? We have to keep these companies held to high standards or else they'll keep giving us less while charging more. There's nothing wrong with you buying it and enjoying it but please don't act like the pricing is in line with normal prices for games. Even 5 year ago this woulda been unheard of at $70 no multiplayer, no upgrade path, etc

I think this is the problem with lot of you guys. Instead of getting annoyed that Sony is treating you like crap you get annoyed at the people who can are calling them on their anti consumer practices because you want to not feel bad that you're excited about the game.
Sony is treating me very well. All I can ask is that they provide games and if it's something that I want to buy, I buy it

I haven't felt like I've wasted $70 yet and I own most Sony games released this gen
 

Clear

Member
yeah it looks good but not Part II good and still waiting on devs to match UE5 Matrix graphics.....

UE5 Matrix was such an obvious tech demo though. Impressive as it was the limitations were equally striking once you actually took a closer look.

I kinda feel like detail for the sake of detail is a road to nowhere. Past a certain point it feels if not redundant, way along the path of diminishing returns.

Which I guess sums up my feeling about this remake. Its admirable and all, but I'm not sure how valuable to the overall experience these graphical improvements are going to be. For me, the only things that matter are getting over the bar for the gaming equivalent of "suspension of disbelief", and not having situations where technical limitations get in the way of enjoying the gameplay. Both of which I feel the original release did already.
 

farmerboy

Member
I think this is the problem with lot of you guys. Instead of getting annoyed that Sony is treating you like crap you get annoyed at the people who can are calling them on their anti consumer practices because you want to not feel bad that you're excited about the game.

I don't have a problem. I'm not even annoyed. I feel like Sony treats me ok, I get what I want out of them.

Creating a product, and charging what you think is reasonable is not anti consumer. Far from it.

Now, if this was another game, I probably wouldn't buy it. But it's TLOU and I'm going to happily pay.
 

Hunnybun

Member
UE5 Matrix was such an obvious tech demo though. Impressive as it was the limitations were equally striking once you actually took a closer look.

I kinda feel like detail for the sake of detail is a road to nowhere. Past a certain point it feels if not redundant, way along the path of diminishing returns.

Which I guess sums up my feeling about this remake. Its admirable and all, but I'm not sure how valuable to the overall experience these graphical improvements are going to be. For me, the only things that matter are getting over the bar for the gaming equivalent of "suspension of disbelief", and not having situations where technical limitations get in the way of enjoying the gameplay. Both of which I feel the original release did already.

Totally agree about the unproven case for that crazy level of geometry that UE5 is selling.

Most of the time you'll never notice it, and ALL of the time it's way into diminishing returns territory.

Ratchet and Horizon FW already have extremely dense geometric detail. It's not close to Nanite, but it's close enough that it's scarcely an issue.

For me the Matrix demo has as many problems as merits. The IQ is *terrible* by modern standards. It looks soft and there's flickering and shimmering everywhere you look. I notice that WAY more than whether or not a chainlink fence is made of real polygons or not.

I know I'll get more incredulous replies, but I honestly much prefer the look of Ratchet and Horizon. At least I'm getting the benefit of my expensive tv from those.
 
I just watched short tease on one of polish game review channels and apparently lou1 remake looks briliant, reviewer(who finished remake) thinks game is worth full price and compared it to Shadow of Colossus remake.
Can you post the link? Does it has good quality gameplay footage?
 

Clear

Member
Totally agree about the unproven case for that crazy level of geometry that UE5 is selling.

Problem with The Matrix demo was that all that geometric detail came at a cost of dynamics. The cityscape was just as static as all the rocky landscapes in the other Nanite showcases; no animation, no interactivity, just an inert hyper-realistic facade.
It was hidden a bit better, using lots of houdini-bakes for the vehicle deformations, and a smattering of conventionally rendered assets, but the limitations are really obvious.

Until Nanite supports animated instances its utility is pretty limited.
 

Hunnybun

Member
Problem with The Matrix demo was that all that geometric detail came at a cost of dynamics. The cityscape was just as static as all the rocky landscapes in the other Nanite showcases; no animation, no interactivity, just an inert hyper-realistic facade.
It was hidden a bit better, using lots of houdini-bakes for the vehicle deformations, and a smattering of conventionally rendered assets, but the limitations are really obvious.

Until Nanite supports animated instances its utility is pretty limited.

Not to defend it particularly, but didn't the original demo have quite a lot of dynamism, falling rocks, collapsing scenery etc?

FWIW I always found that demo much more impressive than the Matrix one. The Matrix one doesn't even make much sense as a concept - it's a modern city, which basically just have loads of large flat surfaces and right angles. The scope for adding detail with lots of triangles is really limited.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Curious to know as well. Digital will stay high for a while as usual.
I was considering buying new and then selling like a month later, i do this and got to olay the game for like £10, but im unsure how much this game will come down in price.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Smart move if you don’t plan on keeping it
Most single player game I play until I complete it, then I wont touch it again for months or years at which point its probably a lot cheaper.

Its one of the cheaper ways to game, but a bit of hassle.
 
Still not impressed, but I'll get it if it comes out on PC for the modding potential alone. Can't justify the cost when I've already played it to death and have the remaster which I can play on PS5.
 
Because they’re remaking the first game, not part 2. Of course they’re going to talk about differences from the game they’re remaking.
People who bought a ps5 would want to know this though. Seems pretty valid and relevant to this release. It IS ND's next game after Part 2 and first game on Ps5 as well as a Ps5 exclusive. They're not addressing the elephant in the room.
 

DForce

Member
People who bought a ps5 would want to know this though. Seems pretty valid and relevant to this release. It IS ND's next game after Part 2 and first game on Ps5 as well as a Ps5 exclusive. They're not addressing the elephant in the room.
Probably don't need to since YouTubers are going to do it.
 

SlimySnake

Member
I just watched short tease on one of polish game review channels and apparently lou1 remake looks briliant, reviewer(who finished remake) thinks game is worth full price and compared it to Shadow of Colossus remake.
the reddit leaker also said the game was the best lookin game on PS5 and then he released videos that dont look any better than whats been shown already. its just hyperbole. ignore it.

comparing it to SOTC isnt great, but SOTC was a $40 last gen remake released in 2018. it should be compared to Bluepoint's 2020 remake instead.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Still doesnt address what if any improvements there are over LoU2
the 4k 40 fps mode is an improvement but other than that if you know the history of this game you know this was built on TLOU2 engine so it is bound to look identical to it. they are reusing assets from that game. foliage looks the same. ellie and joel's character models are very close to what we saw in the flashback levels. Wouldnt be surprised if they lifted them from the sequel and used them as a starting point.



The game simply looks phenomenal in cutscenes.



We see the same thing here. Remake looks phenomenal in cutscenes. Not so much during gameplay.
 
the reddit leaker also said the game was the best lookin game on PS5 and then he released videos that dont look any better than whats been shown already. its just hyperbole. ignore it.

comparing it to SOTC isnt great, but SOTC was a $40 last gen remake released in 2018. it should be compared to Bluepoint's 2020 remake instead.

I mean, the cinematic visuals are NEXT LEVEL stuff and beyond anything I've seen thus far in terms of that. The gameplay isn't quite as updated, but if the resolution is higher it'll still stand pretty close to HFW in certain respects.

The thing with the YouTube videos that aren't direct feed - they don't do it anywhere near justice.
 

Stooky

Member
Same thing, because he then says that they bring on the ramake all the tools they learned from it...except the 2 most game changing features like going prone and the dodge.

Monumental my ass.


Seeing how much they improved IA and gore\animations is the only reason why i'm buying this remake.
prone are dodge are not tools it’s a gameplay mechanic. motion matching is tool and a game changer. There are many other things they are doing with the remake that did not exist when tlou first came out. Some of it looks simple like how the gameplay camera moves and blends, most people would just overlook it. Some how prone and dodge represents everything they have learned over the past 10 years lol this shit is hilarious.
 
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the 4k 40 fps mode is an improvement but other than that if you know the history of this game you know this was built on TLOU2 engine so it is bound to look identical to it. they are reusing assets from that game. foliage looks the same. ellie and joel's character models are very close to what we saw in the flashback levels. Wouldnt be surprised if they lifted them from the sequel and used them as a starting point.



The game simply looks phenomenal in cutscenes.



We see the same thing here. Remake looks phenomenal in cutscenes. Not so much during gameplay.

Btw, watching bill’s town footage on my 4k set and the resolution is way higher than 1440p

Definitely looks fantastic at the higher resolution
 
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