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[deriks]

Late to the party, I just finished Dead Space 2, and holy shit, by the end of chapter 13 trough chapter 15 there's an imortal enemy that basically sucks ass. So I remembered that there's a lot of games that has that, and they all pretty much sucks

Resident Evil in this gen says a lot. You have your Jack Baker, Mr X, Nemesis, Lady Dimitrescu. The original RE 2 and 3 you could defeat Mr X and Nemesis and he stayed out of the picture for a while, so that doesn't count, is a way better mechanic than the new ones.

Coming back to Dead Space 2 enemy, it's not enough the waves after waves of enemies before him, which are not really that hard but annoying to the point of being exhausted of doing the same shit over and over, the enemy comes and I really considered rage quiting. Thanks for the internet, I searched a little and chapter 14 and 15 are very tiny, so I continued to the end, but man, the game was so great until this happens. The lazy part confirms because those chapters are small and basically only corridors, with maybe one or two "puzzles"

So yeah, it's a lazy design choice to put that. Probably worse than obligatory walk - which also should not exist anymore in a videogame

Which other games has it and you despise?

 

[Knightime_X]

Are you annoyed because they're hard or annoyed because it scares you?
I'm betting it scares you because they keep coming after you.

Also are you playing on normal or something else?
None of these creatures should be too much of an issue on normal. Much less on easy.

 

[Mr Hyde]

You also got that terrible Regenerator enemy in RE4. Worst part of the game. RE is a big offender in this department. I know it's a staple in the series with these immortal enemies chasing you around, but Capcom needs to move on from that. Do something fresh instead.

Regarding DS2, I just ran from that enemy, absolutely terrible. Even more so when I did Hard to the Core mode, I failed big time because of him and all the annoying enemies that swarms the fucking place. Never tried it again. That trophy is self torture.

 

[Johnny Concrete]

No, regenerating health player characters is a lazy design and shouldn’t exist anymore.

Ah my screen is red, let’s wait in cover until it isn’t anymore… pff…

 

[Fredrik]

Haven’t played Dead Space but in general I think it’s fine as long as there is a way around it. Sometimes there is a wizard or healing droid, or whatever applies to the theme, which regenerate the health for a bigger enemy. In those cases it’s great design since it adds some strategy where you have to kill the thing that is healing first before going for the big guy.

 

[Con-Z-epT]

I wouldn't call the Ubermorph from Dead Space or Mr. X lazy in terms of design because they do add a lot of tension the these games and also a fresh twist. They are essential to the experience.

 

[SEGA_2012]

Yeah i agree, Mr.X is the worst thing about Remake 2 and one of the worst things of all things in videogames.

 

[Danjin44]

Not liking the design = lazy.

What the hell is that even mean exactly?

Devs slept in instead doing their job that’s why put this design? Does that make any sense?

 

[KillaJamm]

I've played through Dead Space 2 twice, second time was on a higher difficulty and I'm pretty sure you can just ignore those enemies and run, I think they are mainly used to heighten the tension for the gameplay segment, I seriously can't remember ever having a problem.

 

[KillaJamm]

And Mr X in the remake was epic, the musical cue when he start chasing you down makes it terrifying.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[Mediocre Arachno-Lad]

The original RE 2 and 3 you could defeat Mr X and Nemesis and he stayed out of the picture for a while, so that doesn't count, is a way better mechanic than the new ones.

That's exactly how Bakers, Mr.X, Remake Nemesis and Dimitrescu work. What are you even on about.

 

[Con-Z-epT]

Not the most innovative would be ok. But lazy?

You have to design the model, then apply animations, do some sounddesign and code the AI routines. Doesn't look all that lazy once written down, does it?

 

[daveonezero]

Like most mechanics there are good and bad implementations.

You also got that terrible Regenerator enemy in RE4.

It was a reason to have a thermal scope. I think I figured it out my first play through.

You just had to use the rifle and thermal to shoot weak points. Pretty sure there were in game clues.

 

[Zeroing]

You should play nioh 2 and the depths of the underworld, you would see how hard those bosses are.
I wouldn’t call it lazy but artificially making the game harder…

 

[Captain Toad]

Whenever a choice comes down to what is more realistic or what makes more sense from a gameplay perspective, the latter should always win out.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[deriks]

That's exactly how Bakers, Mr.X, Remake Nemesis and Dimitrescu work. What are you even on about.

No it doesn't. You could shot Nemesis as soon he shows, and he will be down until later. On the new games you can only pause them for some seconds

Are you annoyed because they're hard or annoyed because it scares you?
I'm betting it scares you because they keep coming after you.

Also are you playing on normal or something else?
None of these creatures should be too much of an issue on normal. Much less on easy.

Scares me an enemy that shows everywhere and is predictable as hell?! Dude... I played on normal, and it's not a hard enemy or something, but you need constant atention, constant shooting and constant stasis. Not smart using those stuff, constantly using. It's lazy

 

[Danjin44]

The nicest person on this forum​

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Agreed

 

[Mr Hyde]

It was a reason to have a thermal scope. I think I figured it out my first play through.

You just had to use the rifle and thermal to shoot weak points. Pretty sure there were in game clues.

I know how to defeat them. They're just terribly designed enemies.

 

[Sid Of Bee]

I believe the player and enemies should be on a level playing field. Not for overall strength or skill, but for health/hit points.

If you can regenerate they should be able as well. If you require health pick-ups they do too.

Granted, I think there's plenty of other ways and games don't necessarily fall into this opinion.

 

[01011001]

Not liking the design = lazy.

What the hell is that even mean exactly?

Devs slept in instead doing their job that’s why put this design? Does that make any sense?

lazy design = "I have no unique or interesting design so I'll just throw a trusted old cliche in"

I disagree with OP in the specific cases he mentioned... but lazy design is a real thing. just think about Halo Infinite for example. instead of coming up with unique ways to make the Halo formula more modern, what they instead did is just copy/paste what every shooter does and slap in a vaulting and a sprint + slide mechanic...
even tho it has been demonstrated and argued that these features are detrimental to Halo's core gameplay by many players with very convincing arguments for years...
but 343i is scared to innovate and so they just copy/paste these mechanics into the game to be save...
that is lazy design.

they couldn't come up with a good and fitting mechanics to modernize Halo and just copied what other developers do, which is a shame if you remember the origins of the series and how it paved the way for modern shooters in so many ways.

another lazy design we often see in modern games is bullet sponge enemies in shooters with RPG mechanics. instead of making the enemies harder in other more fun ways (attack patterns etc.), they just slap a bigger health bar on them and leave the rest the same. sadly that is kind of a systemic issue with RPG mechanics in general, which is why shooters with RPG mechanics can be extremely annoying to play.
I am currently playing a bit of Outriders on the side from time to time. playing through the campaign was fun and wasn't too bad with the RPG stuff but the end game? it's literally just bullet sponge shooting with a player character that is basically immortal. so there is no challenge and all that changes with better gear is how fast the boring shooting is over

 

[Syphon Filter]

I think regen health in games like COD is corny, in Halo it makes sense but not in military style games.

 

[Danjin44]

I believe the player and enemies should be on a level playing field.

Not in survival horror games, in my opinion in good survival horror you need to be at disadvantage.

 

[Danjin44]

lazy design = "I have no unique or interesting design so I'll just throw a trusted old cliche in"

But what isn’t “cliche” these days? If that’s the logic then 90% of devs are lazy?

 

[bender]

Not in survival horror games, in my opinion in good survival horror you need to be at disadvantage.

Your face is a disadvantage!

 

[01011001]

But what isn’t “cliche” these days? If that’s the logic then 90% of devs are lazy?

if it fits and it is fun, then that's not lazy even if it is often used. but if a developer throws something in because "well that's just how others do it" even tho it is detrimental to the design of the game, then it is lazy.

Halo is the example I brought up specifically because of this happening.
Sprinting should not be in Halo, neither should be Vaulting. both of these common Shooter mechanics that EVERY FUCKING shooter has these days just ruin parts of Halo's gameplay. I could now write an essay on why, but I did that in other threads on here I bet already, so I'll spare you from it lol but when the community makes hour long analysis videos on this and the developers just ignore it... well then you know they are just lazy and are scared that being more unique is too risky.
so in a way it is lazy and cowardly in equal measures

 

[daveonezero]

I know how to defeat them. They're just terribly designed enemies.

Idk it was two or three encounters and fit into the almost near pacing of the game.

So you think the enemy and thermal scope should be removed?

 

[Danjin44]

if it fits and it is fun, then that's not lazy even if it is often used.

But who determines that? for example, lot of people find Souls series difficulty is not fun so in their eyes FROM devs are lazy?

To me "lazy" is just not the right word for it, I think "uncreative" or "unimaginative" fits that much better.

 

[ProgenitorCastle]

Lmfao this thread has some of the worst takes I've read I'm wheezing

Git gud

 

[Atrus]

It's a cat and mouse setup. You can't have much of a survival horror scenario when the mouse immediately kills the cat. This is like saying Alien Isolation has lazy design because you have to hide and cannot survive being attacked.

If these games are too stressful or scary, then they aren't for you.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Made me stop playing BOTW Master Quest.

 

[01011001]

But who determines that? for example, lot of people find Souls series difficulty is not fun so in their eyes FROM devs are lazy?

To me "lazy" is just not the right word for it, I think "uncreative" or "unimaginative" fits that much better.

well being uncreative or unimaginative are just different forms of lazy. creatively lazy instead of work-effort lazy.
it can also be that the developers are just lacking creativity of course, in which case it would be just them being shit devs. but I bet these days it is often more so that developers in AAA studios especially are creatively lazy or cowardly when it comes to design choices.
they just copy/paste what others are doing because they lack motivation or they are too scared that not having these generic mechanics will hurt the game due to the lack or familiarity for the casual audience.

343 Industries almost admits to this through the gameplay of Halo Infinite. they have a sprint mechanic there, not because they think the game needs it but because they either couldn't come up with other way to make the game feel modern or because they were scared the CoD casuals will not play it if it doesn't have sprint.
they admit to this simply due to how sprint is implemented, as in it barely does anything. it is gimped to such a degree that it might as well not be there... but it is, because they were lazy (or cowardly, hard to tell)

 

[Mibu no ookami]

People care too much about realism instead of games being fun.

 

[Danjin44]

well being uncreative or unimaginative are just different forms of lazy. creatively lazy instead of work-effort lazy.
it can also be that the developers are just lacking creativity of course, in which case it would be just them being shit devs. but I bet these days it is often more so that developers in AAA studios especially are creatively lazy or cowardly when it comes to design choices.
they just copy/paste what others are doing because they lack motivation or they are too scared that not having these generic mechanics will hurt the game due to the lack or familiarity for the casual audience

To me most of the time it comes down to having creative and unique mechanics has risks, risks that high budget AAA games can't effort. with high budget it comes less room to be creative and your game needs to have mass appeal in order to sell in high numbers.

In my opinion Marvel movies are most unimaginative movies out there but it still take lot of works make those movies happen so I just can't call them "lazy".

 

[zeorhymer]

Tethered and regenerating mobs are worse.

 

[daveonezero]

Made me stop playing BOTW Master Quest.

Exact opposite for me. Vanilla got old and encounters became meaningless 20 hrs in.

Master mode makes the gameplay loop different and for me gave a distinct early mid and late game experience.

 

[01011001]

To me most of the time it comes down to having creative and unique mechanics has risks, risks that high budget AAA games can't effort. with high budget it comes less room to be creative and your game needs to have mass appeal in order to sell in high numbers.

In my opinion Marvel movies are most unimaginative movies out there but it still take lot of works make those movies happen so I just can't call them "lazy".

I don't think that should be something that stops developers tho.
Ubisoft often gets a lot of hate. but look at what Watch_Dogs did with the hacking mechanics and which they then iterated on and expanded a lot in Watch_Dogs 2. AAA game that sold well, and it had mechanics that you will not find in any other game really. there are missions in Watch_Dogs 2 that can be done by barely moving your main character and just using different tools and hacks to get into an open building and steal data etc. using mechanics and gameplay elements no other game has.

of course it is risky but to me that isn't really an excuse. I do not really care about the publisher's side of things I only care for what I download or install onto my console and play... so this is an excuse sure but not a good one for me.

also I really think due to the nature of how AAA games are made these days it often is also not about risk but precisely about being lazy. if you are a contractor or even a main part of a 1000 head studio... then what is your motivation to do something special there? it is rare that you get a AAA dev team that seems motivated to do something special these days. the most standout things you will see in these games is "OH look at our motion capturing! look at those emotional face animations!" as if we didn't see that in Hollywood movies since at least 2 decades already, adn they try to hide the lack of any real unique design through this eyecandy stuff

 

[TheMay30thMan]

I wouldn’t say the design is lazy. It can be frustrating and difficult, but it’s not lazy. The regenerator in Dead Space is supposed to a stressful fight. It shows up in every game. The first game did it the best.

Edit: Upon further thought, I think the only thing lazy about regenerating enemies in video games are the people that hate them.

 

[Green_Eyes]

Late to the party, I just finished Dead Space 2, and holy shit, by the end of chapter 13 trough chapter 15 there's an imortal enemy that basically sucks ass. So I remembered that there's a lot of games that has that, and they all pretty much sucks

Resident Evil in this gen says a lot. You have your Jack Baker, Mr X, Nemesis, Lady Dimitrescu. The original RE 2 and 3 you could defeat Mr X and Nemesis and he stayed out of the picture for a while, so that doesn't count, is a way better mechanic than the new ones.

Coming back to Dead Space 2 enemy, it's not enough the waves after waves of enemies before him, which are not really that hard but annoying to the point of being exhausted of doing the same shit over and over, the enemy comes and I really considered rage quiting. Thanks for the internet, I searched a little and chapter 14 and 15 are very tiny, so I continued to the end, but man, the game was so great until this happens. The lazy part confirms because those chapters are small and basically only corridors, with maybe one or two "puzzles"

So yeah, it's a lazy design choice to put that. Probably worse than obligatory walk - which also should not exist anymore in a videogame

Which other games has it and you despise?

You also got that terrible Regenerator enemy in RE4. Worst part of the game. RE is a big offender in this department. I know it's a staple in the series with these immortal enemies chasing you around, but Capcom needs to move on from that. Do something fresh instead.

Regarding DS2, I just ran from that enemy, absolutely terrible. Even more so when I did Hard to the Core mode, I failed big time because of him and all the annoying enemies that swarms the fucking place. Never tried it again. That trophy is self torture.

 

[Mr Hyde]

 

[Elder Legend]

Late to the party, I just finished Dead Space 2, and holy shit, by the end of chapter 13 trough chapter 15 there's an imortal enemy that basically sucks ass. So I remembered that there's a lot of games that has that, and they all pretty much sucks

Resident Evil in this gen says a lot. You have your Jack Baker, Mr X, Nemesis, Lady Dimitrescu. The original RE 2 and 3 you could defeat Mr X and Nemesis and he stayed out of the picture for a while, so that doesn't count, is a way better mechanic than the new ones.

Coming back to Dead Space 2 enemy, it's not enough the waves after waves of enemies before him, which are not really that hard but annoying to the point of being exhausted of doing the same shit over and over, the enemy comes and I really considered rage quiting. Thanks for the internet, I searched a little and chapter 14 and 15 are very tiny, so I continued to the end, but man, the game was so great until this happens. The lazy part confirms because those chapters are small and basically only corridors, with maybe one or two "puzzles"

So yeah, it's a lazy design choice to put that. Probably worse than obligatory walk - which also should not exist anymore in a videogame

Which other games has it and you despise?

Lazy gamers are a detriment to video game design. Stop crying about dumb stuff, git good. There was a reason why that enemy was created and how you had to tackle that section in Dead Space 2. If your IQ is too low, don't blame the game play something a bit more simple like like Call of Duty where your hand is being held through a ton of scripted events and super linear pathway. Just make sure to play on the easiest difficulty though, veteran might kill you judging based on this thread of yours.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

And Mr X in the remake was epic, the musical cue when he start chasing you down makes it terrifying.

He was even more epic and scary in the original Resident Evil 2 where you don't see him comin. What's scary in the Remake when you hear him stomping arround all the time. This Shit was pissing me off and that shit wasn't scary at all.

 

[Chittagong]

Regenerating health forces you to take the battle to the enemies more aggressively, and not complete the campaign in crawling position hiding behind corners.

 

[ByWatterson]

Disagree. They create urgency, which is hard to balance with risk of aggressive attack, creating interesting choice for the player.

It's one of the reason Halo CE felt so new. Regenerating shields on elites was such an interesting risk/reward.

 

[Duchess]

My personal gaming bug bear is enemy level scaling.

Find it tough to beat some enemies? Okay, go grind out some levels, to up your hp, skills, and gain access to better armour. However, upon returning to said enemies, you discover that they, too, have been off at the gym, and are still able to give you a sound beating around the head. Ugh.

 

[ZehDon]

I don't mind regenerating - seemingly invincible - enemies, so long as they are only present for a segment of, rather than long stretches of, the game. In Dead Space, it's a relatively short amount of time you have to deal with that particular enemy. It's a very tense segment, no arguments there, but it is ultimately just one segment, meaning it's just one particular brand of horror in Dead Space's pretty vast bag of tricks. In Dead Space 2, they save the enemy till near the end of the game to amp up the late-game horror, and I think it worked pretty well there, too.

In REmake2, however, they went overboard by trying to implement that kind of mechanic into a good third or more of the game. This feels like its copying from contemporary horror games where you have to play hide and seek, which I personally think is pretty garbage. However, you can mitigate Mr X with good routing, allowing you to only have to deal with him for a couple of minutes. Of course, that just highlights how unenjoyable a mechanic he ultimately is - that basically rendering the mechanic as moot as possible is considered "good routing". Having to run circles around the environment to create enough space between you and him so you can do small tasks isn't "tense" or "scary". It's "busy work" and "lame as fuck" that changed the tone of the game too much from the original. In REmake2, I consider him a blemish on a nearly perfect game.

 

[Braag]

I feel like their purpose is mostly to drain the player of resources rather than being scary. At least that's how it feels like.

 

[Sid Of Bee]

Just because a story's canon is retroactive doesn't make it bad.

Just because you plan a long story doesn't make it good. AKA Star Wars.