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[Hero of Spielberg]

The ps5 design is bold and pretty slick imo

This one looks better as the black ‘wings’ tone down how garish they look in white and the lack of scale in the image means it’s difficult to see how massive it is.

 

[Imtjnotu]

It's time to move to a 12c CPU and actually use 3d cache.

3D stack hbm onto the Gpu

 

[SolidQ]

I mean, the PS6 is going to be the easiest console to quess the specs of.

CPU - Zen 5 8C/16T
GPU - RDNA 5 72CU @ 3ghz
RAM - 24GB
SSD - 2TB @ 10gbs

Based which year, if 2028 then
Zen6-7X3D
RDNA6 with AI(AMD talking about future RDNA npc AI) If 2027 then RX8900XT is PS6 perfomance, if 2028 more like 9800XT perfomance
32RAM

 

[lestar]

PS5 (and Series) aimed for solving the CPU bottleneck and going all in on SSD. Both of those features were clearly the weakest links of the previous gen, so that makes sense.

Now that we have well rounded consoles, what in the world could the next gen have to improve on, other than the usual "bigger numbers across the board"? Because if that's the case, why not just have a PS5 Pro and keep this train rolling?

There is one thing the next gen consoles selling point will be: AI

 

[//DEVIL//]

Ah yes, Mr. Red - "Take it with a truckload of salt" - TechGaming. I watched his videos and now have high blood pressure.

Yeah man I can't stand the guy. Whatever his logo or his hair or the snot in his mouth when he talks.

Very annoying. Add to that all his insider sources are his left or right ass*

 

[Tommi84]

'we believe in generations' Cerny

I still remember this, Cerny. This was utter lie. Let's see what you lie about this time.

 

[mckmas8808]

This arms race has to stop. Moore's law is more relevant than ever. Console cycles should last 10 years now. PS6 Pro? Bulljive...

I would say they should last 7 to 8 years. 10 years is extremely too long.

 

[sinnergy]

There is one thing the next gen consoles selling point will be: AI

And Ray-tracing .. enough to solve.

 

[Fredrik]

Bring it! And no Pro in-between.

 

[Panajev2001a]

'we believe in generations' Cerny

I still remember this, Cerny. This was utter lie. Let's see what you lie about this time.

Was not said by him, it was not a lie.

References (again):
https://www.neogaf.com/posts/262385909/
https://www.neogaf.com/posts/261946360/

 

[Three]

I have a feeling that gaming consoles may start going the way of Phone upgrades, but instead of a yearly cycle refresh, it's more like 4-5 years (or however long it takes for a new process shrink to occur going forward).

So instead of a PS5 Pro, we may just get a PS6. Then 4-5 years later we get a PS7. And all games that come out will essentially support PS5 to PS7 with various degrees of upgrades. Eventually, support for certain consoles will drop off (perhaps only keeping 3 active hardware gens at any given time). Think of it like the Apple iPhone way of approaching it.

This may sound like "cross gen hell" to folks like @SlimySnake but I honestly think we've sort of maxed out the big changes in hardware and therefore it must become more incremental and more broadly supported.

It already has. This only happened as we started to go towards standardised PC hardware instead of the manufacturers doing anything exotic that would require more dev effort/cost. Since we did that ports have become so easy that "cross gen hell" and backwards compatibility are almost guaranteed now.

One of the last remaining significant differences in hardware that seems to remain is nvidia and their raytracing hardware but even that might be standardised soon enough where dev support for it might pick up.

 

[Little Chicken]

The whole one SKU release is so archaic now, I hope Sony and MS release different powered SKUs at different price points.

MS started with X|S, but I'd love a tier above Series X at launch.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The whole one SKU release is so archaic now, I hope Sony and MS release different powered SKUs at different price points.

MS started with X|S, but I'd love a tier above Series X at launch.

I argue it is more relevant than ever… but you want a PC and that is fine, consoles are single specs HW stable for 4-5 years at least allowing/creating an incentive for devs to take advantage of their specifications creatively and not needing complex and abstracted API’s like PC’s do in order to hide the variety of specs and architectures away from devs (who rarely would go deep down each of them to optimise their games).

The more consoles variations scenario has a cost, better optimised games is not the result it would bring (either some users would be shafted with sub par versions or you would with HW that is under-utilised, but at least you would know it could be pushed harder than that… ).

 

[UnNamed]

PS6 Slogan: "We believe in PS4 generation"

 

[Ar¢tos]

Sort of the same thing as ps5, but beefier specs, more focus on Raytracing hw and costing 600-700$ would be my guess.

 

[In Cold Blood]

Based which year, if 2028 then
Zen6-7X3D
RDNA6 with AI(AMD talking about future RDNA npc AI) If 2027 then RX8900XT is PS6 perfomance, if 2028 more like 9800XT perfomance
32RAM

For Sony to keep BC it will require a multiple of 36.
PS4 went from 18CU to the PS4 Pro with 36CU being a butterfly GPU design where old PS4 games would run just off one side of the GPU with 18CUs.
The PS5 kept the same 36CU GPU as the PS4 Pro to keep BC, so the most likely move for the PS6 would be 72CUs butterfly design like the PS4 Pro was.

 

[Seider]

Development of the next console begins when last console development is completed.

They have engineers under contract and they cant be quiet. They are always working. And thats the way it must be.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

How do Sony and Microsoft spend billions on R&D on these things, when the components that will power the consoles of the future are already in the market, or will be years before they launch? Seems like a massive waste?

 

[odhiex]

the dream is getting closer:

Sony has trademarked the names PS6 to PS10, for this reason.
https://www.gematsu.com/2019/10/son...-trademarks-ps6-ps7-ps8-ps9-and-ps10-in-japan

 

[Panajev2001a]

How do Sony and Microsoft spend billions on R&D on these things, when the components that will power the consoles of the future are already in the market, or will be years before they launch? Seems like a massive waste?

Do not spend actual billions in R&D, but they tend to co-finance AMD in the development of some features that make sense only for consoles and other features you then see being used on PC around the time or shortly after console’s launches. That is why they love working with AMD, the ability of having semi-custom designs with their entire future roadmap open to them.

That is how they both get consoles punching above their weight.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Why is this even a story? All hardware teams begin work on a successor right away.

 

[Black_Stride]

Custom RT cores please.
Global Illumination as a baseline for first party titles.

 

[TVexperto]

hopefully he is back to do this:

 

[yurinka]

Obvious rumor, they must be working on it in order to release it around November 2027.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

I didn’t watch the video but the concept of Mark Cerny "coming back" is pretty stupid to begin with. AFAIK he never ceased to be Playstation's Lead Architect, regardless of whether he's on the payroll as a direct employee or as a contractor.
He does months-long studio tours every 2 years to gather spec and feature requirements for future consoles, which then feed into the 3-4 year lead times for every new GPU architecture at AMD.

The design of a new console isn't seasonal, it's continuous.

 

[Physiognomonics]

I hope there is no PRO this time around and we just jump to 6 with full ps4 and ps5 BC and physical drive.
But hope it's no sooner than in 4-5 years.

He probably already finished developing the Pro (which is why he could start PS6 dev). By the way a pro is necesssary to bring better RT performance. There was a Cerny patent with supposedly big improvements on that front. But not sure if for Pro or PS6.

It's time to move to a 12c CPU and actually use 3d cache.

3D stack hbm onto the Gpu

I think 3d cache + 8c should be good enough on a console. Currently those consoles have mobile CPUs with drastically reduced caches compared to desktop PCs. The problem currently is performance by core on console, not lack of cores.

 

[TrebleShot]

One of my favourite times of a console gen when the next ten rumours begin!

PS4/5 I was glued to these threads without a clue about what I was reading.

Let’s go PS6 streaming stick

 

[nightmare-slain]

I mean, the PS6 is going to be the easiest console to quess the specs of.

CPU - Zen 5 8C/16T
GPU - RDNA 5 72CU @ 3ghz
RAM - 24GB
SSD - 2TB @ 10gbs

If consoles only have 24GB next gen that'll suck. By today's standards 16GB is pitiful especially considering it's shared between cpu and gpu. On PC today I am seeing a lot more games require 20-25GB RAM alone and as much as 13GB VRAM. Fortnite, a game that is running on UE5.1, uses 19GB RAM and 11GB VRAM and that's not even at 4K (I play at 1440p). More and more games will be using UE5 and by 2027/2028 there is no way that 24GB is going to be enough.

32GB seems more likely. I could see a console running with ~20GB to system and 10-12GB for VRAM. With the enhancements of UE5 and if people want more raytracing and to keep 60fps or even play at 120fps then you're going to need 32GB for sure.

Not sure about the CPU/GPU side of things. I suppose a Zen 5 isn't too crazy and 8c/16t is more than enough for gaming now but I'm not sure if it'll be good in 10-13 years from now when we're well into next gen. a 12c/24t would be nice to have.

SSDs need to be 2TB standard. Prices of SSDs are dropping hard so there is no excuse for anything less come 2027/2028. As for speed, now that AMD is on PCIE5, then SSDs could go up to about 14-15GB/s. No PCIE5 drives exist today as far as I'm aware. 10-11GB/s will probably be a safe bet. When faster drives come out you should be able to swap it out. PS5 comes with a 5.5GB/s drive which is quite slow but you can replace it with a 7GB/s one.

 

[rofif]

He probably already finished developing the Pro (which is why he could start PS6 dev). By the way a pro is necesssary to bring better RT performance. There was a Cerny patent with supposedly big improvements on that front. But not sure if for Pro or PS6.

I think 3d cache + 8c should be good enough on a console. Currently those consoles have mobile CPUs with drastically reduced caches compared to desktop PCs. The problem currently is performance by core on console, not lack of cores.

Pro is not necessary for anything. Rt is not necessary for anything.

 

[DenchDeckard]

You know what, I'd love one of these consoles manufacturers to throw a curve ball and go with someone like intel.

I know intel isn't in a position to support this yet but once they have GPU tech down and could consider some all singing and dancing APU I would love it.

It's a risk but one that could pay off in droves.

For consoles I hope Sony or MS go with a 3d cache design with AMD. I would want that as a minimum from a next gen gaming console.

 

[Pedro Motta]

You know what, I'd love one of these consoles manufacturers to throw a curve ball and go with someone like intel.

I know intel isn't in a position to support this yet but once they have GPU tech down and could consider some all singing and dancing APU I would love it.

It's a risk but one that could pay off in droves.

For consoles I hope Sony or MS go with a 3d cache design with AMD. I would want that as a minimum from a next gen gaming console.

I hope they stack Cerny sauce on top of Cerny sauce, then we have 3D Cerny V-sauce.

 

[RCU005]

'we believe in generations' Cerny

I still remember this, Cerny. This was utter lie. Let's see what you lie about this time.

That wasn’t Cerny. It was Jim Ryan, so I don’t know what you are remembering.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Custom RT cores please.
Global Illumination as a baseline for first party titles.

We need to think about where the design will evolve and where they will revolutionise it (balancing evolution and revolution is a known principle of this, unknown is the budget vs MSRP of the console, is the latter going to increase?) as well as finding as they say new dreams that are driven by their first party studios or by their most forward looking R&D teams.

RT improvements are a given, I would see them going for a leap in features and performance (see BVH building acceleration, batching and reordering to improve coherence, etc… IMG Tech has some nice white papers on it: https://blog.imaginationtech.com/in...vels-system-and-what-it-will-mean-for-gaming/ ). ML and acceleration in that area might be something also financed by MS and Sony (AMD seems a bit cautious in adding dedicated cores like Tensor cores vs adding more instructions to reuse the shader ALU’s and just adding more of them… then again it might be them trying to mislead nVIDIA too).

I see them taking advantage of having a single SoC (not sure they will go chiplets) and investing in something like stacked memory like AMD is doing for CPU and GPU (something like in the ~96 MB range or so). More than just raw bandwidth it would help reduce power consumption / pressure on the external off die GDDR memory pool.

I still think we will see Xilinx’s acquisition being part of the new dream, with them adding an FPGA accelerator (the dreamer part of me would like them to include it in a plug and play card to allow users to upgrade it hehe ).

 

[Azurro]

Pro is not necessary for anything. Rt is not necessary for anything.

The market remaining stagnant for 6 to 8 years is not applicable anymore imo. A PRO console would reignite interest, would get your hardcore audience that WANT to get a nicer version of a console after 3 or 4 years something to buy and you'd be able to offer a combo of performance + fidelity modes in one machine. What's not to like?

 

[remember_spinal]

The whole one SKU release is so archaic now, I hope Sony and MS release different powered SKUs at different price points.

MS started with X|S, but I'd love a tier above Series X at launch.

Yes, lets add even more development time for games, they don’t take long enough to optimize already

 

[Azurro]

Yes, lets add even more development time for games, they don’t take long enough to optimize already

The PS4 Pro and One X versions of games were relatively simple to do.

 

[aries_71]

I really hope that for the PS6 launch the buy the license in exclusivity for the The Who song…. “People try to put us down, talking 'bout my generation”.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The market remaining stagnant for 6 to 8 years is not applicable anymore imo. A PRO console would reignite interest, would get your hardcore audience that WANT to get a nicer version of a console after 3 or 4 years something to buy and you'd be able to offer a combo of performance + fidelity modes in one machine. What's not to like?

3-4 years of technology progress will give you less and less absolute improvements, it is an extra R&D investment on top of the next generation design (and it brings one off costs, manufacturing, marketing, and even chip R&D that brings overhead to each console, mid generation upgrade or not, launch).

Mid generation consoles only seem to get token support third parties can get by brute forcing the existing games’ existing tech.

Raising console prices, bigger boxes, and longer R&D times are the kind of answers we need (a mix of them), but we can also ask companies to keep selling us promise:untapped potential…

 

[SkylineRKR]

This gen might've not been the enormous jump in graphics (diminishing returns is also a thing), but it is in accessiblity. Load times are a thing of the past. Perhaps some cross gen stuff still has them but in general there is no loading anymore. A current-gen only game like Forspoken instant fast travels anywhere on the map for example. The reductions in load times for games like FFVII R is immense too. On top of that, you can (esp. on Xbox) switch out games instantly. It was by far my biggest annoyance with consoles before this gen, like having to wait minutes in TW3 just to finish up a side quest. Some games were just not fun because of it.

I wouldn't worry about SSD space too. Its already quite affordable today. Its like SATA in 2006, you can buy sufficient storage without breaking the bank. I expect 2tb to be the norm next-gen. But perhaps file sizes can be compressed further, many games are relatively small in size.

I guess 120hz will be pushed more, in conjunction with 4k resolutions. This will ofcourse be a game changer. You get razor sharp graphics with a framerate to boot. Perhaps they push 8k for the masses, even the PS5 already has it on the box lol.

 

[Tommi84]

Was not said by him

 

[Elysion]

I think the next big bottleneck they‘ll try to overcome is memory bandwidth. I think their goal will be to reach bandwidths of >1 or even 2 TB/s. The SSD will also be much faster, possibly >20 GB/s.

Though I wonder if a more radical approach might be possible. What if future SSDs get so fast that they can essentially serve as memory? Maybe normal RAM won’t be necessary anymore, and they instead just put a big chunk of embedded RAM on the GPU, and let the SSD serve as normal memory for the rest? Though I guess something like this might be more likely for PS7 or beyond. But I do think the unification of memory and storage will be reality at some point, and it will a big paradigm shift for the computer industry.

 

[Bernardougf]

Pro is not necessary for anything. Rt is not necessary for ananything.

For someone in this very thread championing 30 fps like it still good and acceptable in 2023 Im sure its not necessary for anything ... for the rest of us that cant stomach 30fps anymore.. it sure is necessary.. very much necessary for stable 60 fps with all the bells and wistles and as close as 4k as possible .. couldn't give a shit for RT at the moment either

They should release a pro next year ... and I sure hope next gen comes with 2 skus one 500/600 dollars with the normal evolution and a PRO 800/900 dollars .... or they settle for something in the middle .. scalpers proved that people dont give a shit about paying more them 600/700 on consoles so is time to start moving this bar up

 

[Panajev2001a]

Ok, produce the quote and show how it was misleading or how the kids say nowadays “problematic”. Will wait, can keep on trolling them with your interpretation of what you think a sound bite might mean but wrote it down and it will fall apart .

PS5 does deliver a generational update and exclusive next generation features, you can proceed on dismissing them of course .

 

[Azurro]

3-4 years of technology progress will give you less and less absolute improvements, it is an extra R&D investment on top of the next generation design (and it brings one off costs, manufacturing, marketing, and even chip R&D that brings overhead to each console, mid generation upgrade or not, launch).

Mid generation consoles only seem to get token support third parties can get by brute forcing the existing games’ existing tech.

Raising console prices, bigger boxes, and longer R&D times are the kind of answers we need (a mix of them), but we can also ask companies to keep selling us promise:untapped potential…

True, I think this generation is proof that the kinds of tech jumps we used to have are pretty much a thing of the past. I don't think the investment in R&D is anywhere close to a next generation console, as you start with the current platform as a starting point.

The thing is, with my limited understanding of videogame development and the rendering pipeline, there's nothing much new out there. Ray tracing is incredibly expensive, even more so for these machines, so using it for more than some small feature here and there as it has been so far this gen is out of the question if we want to keep performance/resolution. I'm not aware of any game using the Geometry Engine or Mesh Shaders, and the only example I know of, the Matrix demo, had big performance issues. So, it seems the PS5 and XSX are great at what the current rendering pipeline does, but they don't have the performance to do anything else. I'm not sure what kind of potential to demand out of them, this is probably the best we are ever going to get out of them at a decent resolution and framerate.

So, in my opinion, if devs are going to start using more of the more taxing features to the point that the consoles can barely keep up at 30 FPS and possibly struggle to get to 1440p, I'd be glad to get a machine that gives me my 60 FPS and >=1440p resolution back, because I definitely don't want to go back to 30 FPS. And in a market where you get new phones every year, new TVs, etc, I don't see what kind of damage a higher specced PS5 would do, it would actually give us the hardcore fans something neat to spend money on.

 

[existensmaximum]

Can't say I care about new hardware, I care about developers taking full advantage of the PS5 to create some impressive and worthwhile exclusives (such as Ratchet & Demon's Souls).

So far most of the PS5 generation has been wasted potential.

 

[rofif]

For someone in this very thread championing 30 fps like it still good and acceptable in 2023 Im sure its not necessary for anything ... for the rest of us that cant stomach 30fps anymore.. it sure is necessary.. very much necessary for stable 60 fps with all the bells and wistles and as close as 4k as possible .. couldn't give a shit for RT at the moment either

They should release a pro next year ... and I sure hope next gen comes with 2 skus one 500/600 dollars with the normal evolution and a PRO 800/900 dollars .... or they settle for something in the middle .. scalpers proved that people dont give a shit about paying more them 600/700 on consoles so is time to start moving this bar up

I just think we focus too much on technicalities. I just want games. I would be fine if we still played on ps3 lol

 

[Tommi84]

Ok, produce the quote. We will wait, can keep on trolling them with your interpretation of what you think a sound bite might mean but wrote it down and it will fall apart

You said Cerny didn't say about generations. I gave you proof, now you dismiss this. Not sure what else you want, but that's fine. I'm not going to indulge you more

 

[Black_Stride]

Can't say I care about new hardware, I care about developers taking full advantage of the PS5 to create some impressive and worthwhile exclusives (such as Ratchet & Demon's Souls).

So far most of the PS5 generation has been wasted potential.

Im kinda in the same boat.
It feels like the PS5 hasnt even been fully utilized yet people are pining for Pro and PS6 consoles.
Devs havent even explored these machines yet, but we want the next ones?

 

[Panajev2001a]

You said Cerny didn't say about generations. I gave you proof, now you dismiss this. Not sure what else you want, but that's fine. I'm not going to indulge you more

Ok, so the burden of proof was saying the word “generations” … whoa… you’re hilarious. You know the context and you know what Sony is saying, I provided context and quotes, you tried with drive by trolling…

 

[Beechos]

For those wanting pro systems so much aint the series s and x basically this? Then we going to start complaining things are held back.