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[SegaSnatcher]

2 - 3 yrs after release of a console is when you start planning for the next generation. Given PS4 and PS5 success it is also not surprising that Cerny would be the lead architect of the PS6 as well. We don't need rumors to realize the obvious.

I'd be surprised if they went straight to the PS6 without a PS5 Pro model.

 

[Neilg]

Directors, editors etc use different frame rates based on what they are trying to convey in difference scenes.

Which directors do this?
As far as I'm aware the only known movie to switch frame rate per scene is avatar 2. And outside of James Cameron most directors pick a frame rate and stick to it for their entire career.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

PS5 (and Series) aimed for solving the CPU bottleneck and going all in on SSD. Both of those features were clearly the weakest links of the previous gen, so that makes sense.

Now that we have well rounded consoles, what in the world could the next gen have to improve on, other than the usual "bigger numbers across the board"? Because if that's the case, why not just have a PS5 Pro and keep this train rolling?

Much better ray tracing capabilities/performance would be the obvious.

 

[EDMIX]

Which directors do this?
As far as I'm aware the only known movie to switch frame rate per scene is avatar 2. And outside of James Cameron most directors pick a frame rate and stick to it for their entire career.

I might be confusing that with editors slowing down or speeding up a scene to convey something, but either way the choice of frame or speed or even camera type is based on what they are trying to convey.

What I'm thinking of is under and overcranking.

 

[Hunnybun]

Its not saying they are the same media, its saying both have different frames for the same reasons....

That its dependent on the creation of what is being made and what they are trying to convey.



No, its 100% a choice. There is not law saying that it must be 24fps or anything dumb like that.

Directors, editors etc use different frame rates based on what they are trying to convey in difference scenes. That is the same thing going on in gaming where developer choose 30fps as oppose to 60fps. A choice is being made based on the end goal if the product. MP games make sense for 60fps, while a game that is narrative based that is going for a cinematic feel, the developer would rather spend those resources on graphical fidelity capped at 30.

So some of the same reasons why someone might use 30 or 24 frames in film are some of the same reasons why a developer might do that in game.

All of what you are saying is based on a personal preference, not some law or something. All of that is artist dependent and you'll need to get over that bud.

Of course it's a hangover from the original technology you dumb fucking cunt. Physical projectors ran at 24fps so that's what movies were filmed at, and therefore 24fps by definition became the "cinematic" look. But there's nothing more fundamentally artistic about that presentation than any other watchable frame rate.

But even given that, movies as a medium aren't interactive and so low frame rates are watchable in that medium in a way they aren't in games, because the director etc can exactly tailor each scene for maximum readability. You just can't do that with games, even cinematic ones like TLOU.

 

[normalguy09x]

Everybody wants Knack 3.

Oh don't think I don't want Knack 3.

 

[Azurro]

Of course it's a hangover from the original technology you dumb fucking cunt. Physical projectors ran at 24fps so that's what movies were filmed at, and therefore 24fps by definition became the "cinematic" look. But there's nothing more fundamentally artistic about that presentation than any other watchable frame rate.

But even given that, movies as a medium aren't interactive and so low frame rates are watchable in that medium in a way they aren't in games, because the director etc can exactly tailor each scene for maximum readability. You just can't do that with games, even cinematic ones like TLOU.

There's no need to be so mean, wtf.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

2. The 24fps standard in cinema isn't really any kind of artistic choice. It's just a hangover from the original technology. 60fps looks jarring but it'd almost certainly be better for films too - if we had the chance to get used to it.

Back when the standard was created, 24fps was selected initially because it was the least amount of frames they felt that could produce good enough motion while also saving on the amount of film stock used.

But its objectively used as an artistic choice now, as there is nothing limiting the industry from moving to say a 48fps standard. 24fps gives that "Cinematic" look that people don't really want to give up on.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Of course it's a hangover from the original technology you dumb fucking cunt.

 

[EDMIX]

you dumb fucking cunt

Unnecessary and unproductive to any discussion, we got to part ways here Hunnybun.

Added to ignore.

Azurro smh, truth. Theses types of responses are more emotional and do nothing to add any value to what is being talked about.

Artist will have the choice to use hardware as they feel just. I don't see that ever changing, no matter how triggered someone gets over that.

SegaSnatcher Pretty much. It simply depends on what is being filmed. Like a sporting event or soap opera or reality show want it to feel like real life an high frame rate makes sense here, but someone wanting a more fantasy, cinematic type look and feel would likely opt for 24, 30 etc.

We can't even get 1 frame rate type in that world, how would we in gaming when we have just as many different genres and stuff. It just makes sense to allow the artist to choose that setting based on what is being made.

 

[Hunnybun]

Back when the standard was created, 24fps was selected initially because it was the least amount of frames they felt that could produce good enough motion while also saving on the amount of film stock used.

But its objectively used as an artistic choice now, as there is nothing limiting the industry from moving to say a 48fps standard. 24fps gives that "Cinematic" look that people don't really want to give up on.

But it became the cinematic look because of those original constraints!!

The point is that that rate was arbitrary from an artistic point of view.

 

[Hunnybun]

There's no need to be so mean, wtf.

He was very rude to me and I don't take that shit kindly.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

But it became the cinematic look because of those original constraints!!

The point is that that rate was arbitrary from an artistic point of view.

All I know is I saw Hobbit in the HFR theatrical showing and it made me feel uneasy. The higher FPS made it look cheap looking.

 

[In Cold Blood]

If consoles only have 24GB next gen that'll suck. By today's standards 16GB is pitiful especially considering it's shared between cpu and gpu. On PC today I am seeing a lot more games require 20-25GB RAM alone and as much as 13GB VRAM. Fortnite, a game that is running on UE5.1, uses 19GB RAM and 11GB VRAM and that's not even at 4K (I play at 1440p). More and more games will be using UE5 and by 2027/2028 there is no way that 24GB is going to be enough.

32GB seems more likely. I could see a console running with ~20GB to system and 10-12GB for VRAM. With the enhancements of UE5 and if people want more raytracing and to keep 60fps or even play at 120fps then you're going to need 32GB for sure.

Not sure about the CPU/GPU side of things. I suppose a Zen 5 isn't too crazy and 8c/16t is more than enough for gaming now but I'm not sure if it'll be good in 10-13 years from now when we're well into next gen. a 12c/24t would be nice to have.

SSDs need to be 2TB standard. Prices of SSDs are dropping hard so there is no excuse for anything less come 2027/2028. As for speed, now that AMD is on PCIE5, then SSDs could go up to about 14-15GB/s. No PCIE5 drives exist today as far as I'm aware. 10-11GB/s will probably be a safe bet. When faster drives come out you should be able to swap it out. PS5 comes with a 5.5GB/s drive which is quite slow but you can replace it with a 7GB/s one.

I don't understand why both Sony and MS just don't have some cheaper RAM pool to just run the OS and then keep the more expensive faster RAM for games. The only reason I can come up with is them being limited to how much RAM the OS can have, whereas if they are taking it from the main pool they can just take some more of that RAM to expand the size of the OS if they need.
We heard alot from both MS and Sony about the ability to use the SSD as virtual RAM. The next generation will have two to three times the speed of this generation, so quite possibly this will help keep the need for more RAM down.
What I did was look at what VRAM thr highest GPUs have at this point.
The 4090 has 83 tflops, and only has 24gb of RAM. I don't see any future where either of the next generation of consoles having anywhere near 83tflops, so I don't see a need for the consoles to have a greater amount than that.
The OS won't get too much bigger than they are now, so couldn't imagine the need for greater.

Personally I think the main improvement over just raw power will be specialist hardware to help the games look better outside of pure grunt.
We saw some of this in the XSXS with hardware VRS, Sampler Feedback Streaming and lower precision abilities for ML.
Maybe down the track AMD will have FSR built in with some sort of hardware addition to their GPUs.
Better dedicated Ray Tracing accelerators will be a given.
Things like this can I.prove the fidelity of the game without adding alot to the heat output or die size.

Efficiency gains will also be a bigger thing going forward as well. I fully expect the PS6 will have hardware VRS, a Sampler Feedback Streaming alternative without doubt.

 

[MikeM]

The funniest thing I generally hear are people who have this idea that the hardware is creating the frame.

Something being 60 fps has more to do with how demanding the game is , So I don't know what to tell you Mike but it doesn't matter what the playstation 6 is fucking running if a developer wants to use the hardware to make a very demanding game and they want to forego some of the frame rate to get to that point that's what they're gonna do no matter how powerful you make the system.... That has nothing to actually do with hardware. That has more to do with developer intent, artistic direction, creative freedom etc


And this has nothing to do with the industry being backwards in needing to move forward or anything fucking silly like that , the thing you're talking about isn't some deep requirement, it merely is a preference that you have, Considering that consoles outsell high end gaming PC's by significant amount it's clear the majority don't really care about this as much as you might think. Steam statistics literally show us how little people really care about the thing you are talking about.

So maybe you should just stick to PC because even on that platform you need to change and alter your settings to even get to 60FPS based on the hardware , That is based on a modular design and I just don't know how many people give a shit about that number to spend $3000 or $4000 to go above it....

To save the industry based on your preference what would you even suggest Sony and Microsoft do? Force developers to only use 60 FPS no matter how much it fucking downgrades their game?

Oh yes design on our hardware where we tell you how to make your game lol

In all seriousness, the industry is moving towards higher framerates (i.e. TVs are now including 120hz). Consoles are catching up with 120fps modes which were no where to be found at any other point in history. GoWR ran between 75-95fps with a proper VRR 120hz TV and more games are including unlocked VRR options. Higher frames are coming and PS6 should help drive that. But only Sony, MS and devs know what the data is on whom is choosing which frame options on console.

As for sticking to PC- I have a high end one for insurance against low fps nonsense. I invested $2.5k as a middle finger to 30fps.

 

[Physiognomonics]

- For PS4 Sony needed to integrate X86 PC technologies into console tools with a "supercharged PC" hardware focused on async compute with the aim of greatly simplifying hybrid PC + console development. The first thing Cerny did for PS4 was to study PC X86 tools to see if they were mature enough. They also started to tweak a little the hardware in order to improve GPU efficiency (this will be some kind of ancestor for the cache scrubbers inside PS5).

- For Pro Sony created an innovative checkerboarding solution to double (ish) the resolution at a rather low rendering cost in order to reach 4K (ish) and counter PC gaming. The pro was also created to help PSVR1. To help with their CBR rendering techniques they also created a few specific hardware units for their GPU (that are still exclusive to both Pro and PS5).

- For PS5 Sony significantly improved CPU power and created a unique and very fast I/O solution (hardware / software). They also created cache scrubbers in order to improve GPU efficiency notably when combined with I/O. Both of those unique hardware units are still exclusive to PS5.

- My guess is that for PS5 Pro they are going to lean of what they already have on PS5 (inheriting tools, custom hardware and tech since PS4 gen) and they will add custom RT hardware (Maybe then used by AMD in their own GPUs) that will significantly improve RT rendering similar to how it's done by NVidia GPUs. Their aim will be to easily do RT rendering at 60fps (at least in one mode with reduced resolution) in first party and multiplatform games. I think this is what they are going to market for PS5 Pro.

 

[Hunnybun]

All I know is I saw Hobbit in the HFR theatrical showing and it made me feel uneasy. The higher FPS made it look cheap looking.

Yeah, because it's so unusual.

 

[Hunnybun]

In all seriousness, the industry is moving towards higher framerates (i.e. TVs are now including 120hz). Consoles are catching up with 120fps modes which were no where to be found at any other point in history. GoWR ran between 75-95fps with a proper VRR 120hz TV and more games are including unlocked VRR options. Higher frames are coming and PS6 should help drive that. But only Sony, MS and devs know what the data is on whom is choosing which frame options on console.

As for sticking to PC- I have a high end one for insurance against low fps nonsense. I invested $2.5k as a middle finger to 30fps.

The only thing I've ever heard on that is Colin Moriarty on a recent Sacred Symbols episode saying that he's heard it's about a 70/30 split in favour of fidelity mode.

I'm pretty sure they're almost always the default option, though, so it's biased right from the beginning.

 

[EDMIX]

In all seriousness, the industry is moving towards higher framerates (i.e. TVs are now including 120hz). Consoles are catching up with 120fps modes which were no where to be found at any other point in history. GoWR ran between 75-95fps with a proper VRR 120hz TV and more games are including unlocked VRR options. Higher frames are coming and PS6 should help drive that. But only Sony, MS and devs know what the data is on whom is choosing which frame options on console.

As for sticking to PC- I have a high end one for insurance against low fps nonsense. I invested $2.5k as a middle finger to 30fps.

TVs have had higher frame rates for years, it doesn't mean someone who loves watching sports at 60 wants to watch films at that too though.

I too own a few gaming PCs and have nothing against high frame rate, simply that I like it depending on what genre I'm playing just like I like high frame rate when it comes to film and television. I mean, sure I own a TV that has 120hz for sports (99% for MMA lol), that doesn't mean I actually watch all my content like that, merely depends on what it is.

I treat gaming the exact same way, its not like I'm telling you I want GT7 or CODMW or BF or something weird like that to be 30fps, I love those at high frames, but for me I don't just apply that to all things as that just doesn't make any sense. I invested well beyond $5k on my new build and I still put certain games at 30. Just cause I own a big screen tv with 120hz, doesn't mean I want all my films to look like soap operas or something weird like that lol

I'm not arguing for an absolute to this even remotely

 

[AncientOrigin]

The next generation will still be 4K resolution that means nothing throwing away of the power for frames or resolution.Instead of 1400 60 or 4000 30 we will have native 4K with 60 fps
So the whole 60-100 TF power can go to graphics and physics

 

[TrebleShot]

I think many will be very dissapointed.

Almost gurantee they will keep it cheap and rely on upscaling and frame generation. Isn’t FSR 3 out soon? I think it will become more reliant on streaming.

 

[GymWolf]

Hopefully he is gonna cut the crappy gimmick to put a powerfull gpu inside this time.

 

[Tarin02543]

Any chance of something exotic like risc v?

 

[DenchDeckard]

Now the ssd tech is established I hope they stay reasonable with that and pump funding into the gpu and cpu side.

No need for a 10gbs ssd, stick with what you have in ps5 and go for a 3d cache section on the apu and a nice fat,fast CU arrangement.

That would be killer!

 

[Daniel_Mallorca1985]

PS5 Slim and PS5 Pro????

 

[Ic3man]

REDGAMINGTECH

 

[Shubh_C63]

PS5 Slim and PS5 Pro????

Waiting for the same and a slightly cheaper model. still above 600$ where I'm at.

 

[EliteClarity]

Gimmie "on the fly" AI. My Biggest bugbear is when you raise the Difficuilty level of a game, rather then make the AI more Intelligent, It dumbs you down (Looking at you, FIFA). Using FIFA as an example, I want the opposition to REALLY see who is effecting the game and react accordingly. My Wingers getting too much space? Push up and close him down. My Striker getting too many shots away? Force him onto his weak foot. Getting pressed with the Ball? Go route one.

Basically Everything Sony/Polophony have done with Sophy, but accross the whole platform. All AI Bots are still pretty poor in all of gaming.

 

[Corndog]

Those are weak specs for even a ps5 pro...not happening. We are getting a ps6 probably when 3nm becomes or lower becomes feasible allowing for a 8/10x leap its hard enough trying to justify a ps5 rightnow considering the lazy cross-gen games and middling fidelity displayed by the current crop of next gen games launching on a far superior machine(ps4 to 5). Launching a console with those specs would be a disaster and redundant.

You are not going to get a 10x improvement. Did we get a 10x this generation? Nope.

 

[ozz ex machina]

The next generation will still be 4K resolution that means nothing throwing away of the power for frames or resolution.Instead of 1400 60 or 4000 30 we will have native 4K with 60 fps
So the whole 60-100 TF power can go to graphics and physics

Native 4k is honestly such a waste. Decent FSR/DLSS with better frames is going to be infinitely the better use of resources.

 

[hussar16]

I hope there is no PRO this time around and we just jump to 6 with full ps4 and ps5 BC and physical drive.
But hope it's no sooner than in 4-5 years.

Ps4 pro was the biggest lie I swear. Marketing as a 4k ps4 console where only 5 percent of games even reached 4k . I got duped .no longer Wil o buy a mid gen upgrade

 

[The artful mincer]

Remember when the ps4 was supposed to be the last generation! Those were the days...

I guess it's impossible to know what will happen in a decade but still those hot takes did not age well...

 

[AncientOrigin]

Native 4k is honestly such a waste. Decent FSR/DLSS with better frames is going to be infinitely the better use of resources.

But on an big TV native 4K looks way better than upscaled or 1440 and we are already there it’s either 1400 60 or 4K 30.
And there will be a major Jump in TF now we have 10 but PlayStation 6 will be around 80-120. we lost lots of TF going from 1080 to 4K that is not needed anymore because we are already there. and 8k is not doable for normal good looking games would be nonsense no one has a 8 k tv maybe in 10 years from now

 

[crazepharmacist]

How many CPU cores do you think we will get?

I hope we get 16 cores/32 threads. Maybe even some of that 3dv-cache tech would be awesome.

 

[JackMcGunns]

Probably working on PS5 Pro. PS6 would be too soon, the PS5 hasn't even had a slim version or dropped in price.

Battle of the Pro consoles here we come! Xbox won the last one, lets see who can make the better mid-gen refresh this time

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Whatever is needed to make Nanite and RT work at 60fps.

 

[Physiognomonics]

How many CPU cores do you think we will get?

I hope we get 16 cores/32 threads. Maybe even some of that 3dv-cache tech would be awesome.

Adding 3D cache (+ overclock) will be much cheaper and efficient than adding cores. Current consoles CPUs are clearly under-engineered in that area (caches).

Whatever is needed to make Nanite and RT work at 60fps.

Nanite is not a big problem already with primitive shaders and healthy amount of compute available in GPUs since PS4 gen. What they really need to focus on is RT performance.

 

[ozz ex machina]

But on an big TV native 4K looks way better than upscaled or 1440 and we are already there it’s either 1400 60 or 4K 30.
And there will be a major Jump in TF now we have 10 but PlayStation 6 will be around 80-120. we lost lots of TF going from 1080 to 4K that is not needed anymore because we are already there. and 8k is not doable for normal good looking games would be nonsense no one has a 8 k tv maybe in 10 years from now

As someone who uses DLSS on my 55inch 4k. 1440p upscaled to 4k when properly implemented is very hard to tell the difference. To say it looks "way" better is completely placebo effect. You've probably not seen proper DLSS implementation.

 

[Synless]

Great news! We can get another generation of off the shelf parts that barely push envelope just like this gen.

I can’t fucking wait!

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Great news! We can get another generation of off the shelf parts that barely push envelope just like this gen.

I can’t fucking wait!

It's not simply off-the-shelf parts, both consoles have their own unique features. And this has nothing to do with the hardware, but what developers choose to do with it. Both the PS5 and Series X have adequate power to produce true next gen experiences, but since most games still target last gen hardware there is going to be a limit on what they can do with those titles on the current hardware.

 

[Fredrik]

I'd be surprised if they went straight to the PS6 without a PS5 Pro model.

PS5 Pro isn’t needed. What would they actually correct? There is already 60fps modes on everything and resolution is high enough and RT hasn’t really catched on yet. I hope they go for PS6 directly.

 

[Hunnybun]

But on an big TV native 4K looks way better than upscaled or 1440 and we are already there it’s either 1400 60 or 4K 30.
And there will be a major Jump in TF now we have 10 but PlayStation 6 will be around 80-120. we lost lots of TF going from 1080 to 4K that is not needed anymore because we are already there. and 8k is not doable for normal good looking games would be nonsense no one has a 8 k tv maybe in 10 years from now

Not to me, and not to most people, I bet.

From any kind of normal viewing distance native 4k is pretty much worthless.

In my experience the big jump was from 1080p to 1440p.

 

[ozz ex machina]

Not to me, and not to most people, I bet.

From any kind of normal viewing distance native 4k is pretty much worthless.

In my experience the big jump was from 1080p to 1440p.

Some people really can't be objective and rational with this stuff. Anybody who thinks there is a big difference between good dlss and native 4k is delusional. They would really struggle to tell the difference in a blind test.

 

[Synless]

It's not simply off-the-shelf parts, both consoles have their own unique features. And this has nothing to do with the hardware, but what developers choose to do with it. Both the PS5 and Series X have adequate power to produce true next gen experiences, but since most games still target last gen hardware there is going to be a limit on what they can do with those titles on the current hardware.

I used to think that way too. Now I’m thinking they maybe are not that great after all. We shall see, hopefully you are right and I’m wrong.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Making consoles was never an issue for Sony.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

PS5 Pro isn’t needed. What would they actually correct? There is already 60fps modes on everything and resolution is high enough and RT hasn’t really catched on yet. I hope they go for PS6 directly.

That seems to be the general feeling with how much cross gen games we have had why label something a pro model when you can just call it the PS6

I mean really whats the difference

 

[Fredrik]

That seems to be the general feeling with how much cross gen games we have had why label something a pro model when you can just call it the PS6

I mean really whats the difference

Calling it PS6 says it’s a new generation, Pro means it’s current gen with something upgraded.
But last gen you would at least get 60fps in some games on the Pro.
How would they sell a Pro this time? It wouldn’t be easy. I skipped PS4 Pro even though I love high framerates, I highly doubt they could sell me a Pro this time.

 

[begotten]

I would love a PS5 Slim above all else. I'm not even sure what we need to warrant a PS5 Pro.

 

[UltimaKilo]

2 - 3 yrs after release of a console is when you start planning for the next generation. Given PS4 and PS5 success it is also not surprising that Cerny would be the lead architect of the PS6 as well. We don't need rumors to realize the obvious.

I'd be surprised if they went straight to the PS6 without a PS5 Pro model.

Margins are bigger on "pro" consoles, so I can't imagine that SNY would pass that up with the PS5 being as hot as it is. Likewise with margins, they really need to release a much smaller and lighter PS5 that they can squeeze more juice out of.

 

[Hunnybun]

Calling it PS6 says it’s a new generation, Pro means it’s current gen with something upgraded.
But last gen you would at least get 60fps in some games on the Pro.
How would they sell a Pro this time? It wouldn’t be easy. I skipped PS4 Pro even though I love high framerates, I highly doubt they could sell me a Pro this time.

Well I'm not necessarily saying it'd have mass appeal but isn't the obvious offer fidelity modes at 60fps? Virtually every game already has that mode just waiting to be unlocked, after all.

I suppose the other obvious improvement is better RT, which again is usually already implemented in PC versions. That'd presumably just be a case of raising the setting.