Support NeoGAF

[Calverz]

Executive editor at IGN and Xbox guru Ryan McCaffrey said that he is dissapointed and letdown by Xbox Series X|S launch line up, when this was brought into discussion in the latest Unlocked podcast.

Xbox Series X Launch Lineup Reactions – Unlocked 466 - IGN

Say hi to special guest Cam 'The Cinephile Guy' Hawkins!

www.ign.com

Link to streamable:


Edit: linking to source instead of twitter.

Edit 2: added a poll, as someone requested.

Bonus:

Can we add the 2nd tweet here too? To add balance?

 

[FranXico]

Can we add the 2nd tweet here too? To add balance?

Added. Although that much was already clear.

 

[Knitted Knight]

Added. Although that much was already clear.

He doubled down. There is no walking back what he said or the obvious.

 

[Tulipanzo]

I remember being in a con in 2013, and lining up to play on next-gen for the first time.
For the X1, I queued up to play Dead Rising 3, Ryse, and Killer Instinct. While those games ended up with pretty mid reviews overall (except KI), I do think they did a great job selling the idea of a poweful next-gen, and eventually got me to buy the system a couple years later.

Were I able to go to a con now (thanks covid), I don't even know what I would be bothered to play on XSX tbh. It's supremely dull, and the worst is that little will come to change it in the next two years.

 

[Vawn]

No, it‘s an entirely new game according to the article.

Lol. Ok...

It's still Tetris Effect.

 

[Papacheeks]

Well, if we now start to argue that racing games aren't "as complex and work intensive" as a Last of Us 2, then we'll to trap ourselves into a fallacy. Racing games require a lot of work as well, just on different fronts. I could construct the same argument about linear, cinematic third-person games like Last of Us 2 or God of War and their work required. But I know I would do the devs a huge disservice. They are very complex projects, just like racing games, that require more work on different fronts. Just as an Apex Legends requires more work on a different front than both racing games or cinematic action games require, or just as an Age of Empires IV requires more work on different fronts than any of the aforementioned games.

And as you already mentioned, Sony have to prove the exact same thing as Microsoft. They're essentially buying their "exclusives" (which are, thank god, often temporary) just as Microsoft have bought studios. I'd love for both Sony and Microsoft to do away with third-party deals and focus on their first party stuff but I already have said that.

I can tell you in terms of mechanics, bug fixes, from that making a racing game can be done in less time than that of something like Last of us. Reason is there is more conceptional design that happens. A licensed car game gets the car scans if they have permission from the dealers. They dont have to drive out and scan the car. Those official pics, sometimes scans are given to them.

Not saying they dont work as hard, I'm saying there are way more factors at play in terms of getting the game to gold, and that includes time of conception to production. Production on a game like LOU is longer on average. And that would be because of the time it takes for rigging, animators, mo-cap scenes, then there;s the actual game code. Which with all those variables even within a npc can cause major bugs and issues during production.

When your working on a car game, there are less variables to make your game buggy as hell. But difference is in the amount of content a car game has to make which is substantial. But a lot of that is contracted out now.

LOU had to contract people up to 1500 workers just to get the game finished. If that says anything about varying variables that can destroy your game code/build.

 

[SirTerry-T]

I can tell you in terms of mechanics, bug fixes, from that making a racing game can be done in less time than that of something like Last of us. Reason is there is more conceptional design that happens. A licensed car game gets the car scans if they have permission from the dealers. They dont have to drive out and scan the car. Those official pics, sometimes scans are given to them.

Not saying they dont work as hard, I'm saying there are way more factors at play in terms of getting the game to gold, and that includes time of conception to production. Production on a game like LOU is longer on average. And that would be because of the time it takes for rigging, animators, mo-cap scenes, then there;s the actual game code. Which with all those variables even within a npc can cause major bugs and issues during production.

When your working on a car game, there are less variables to make your game buggy as hell. But difference is in the amount of content a car game has to make which is substantial. But a lot of that is contracted out now.

LOU had to contract people up to 1500 workers just to get the game finished. If that says anything about varying variables that can destroy your game code/build.

Don't underestimate the amount of work involved in a racing game, especially if said game involves licensed assets. That a whole minefield of development, right there.

 

[Papacheeks]

Don't underestimate the amount of work involved in a racing game, especially if said game involves licensed assets. That a whole minefield of development, right there.

It does not add variables to fixing game code though which was my point. Having multiple rigging, animations, mo-caped scenes work on top of if you have a interactive world with advanced physics adds so much complexity.

On top of there is more art needed that's created by hand where in a racing game those scans and locations can be used as a blueprint for their tracks. Obviously they hand create the tracks, but the geography is used as a blueprint.

Story based games have more mo-cap, hand animated cutscenes. Takes more time but also adds more work, and variables that could crash a game when compiled to be play tested.

 

[reinking]

13 pages and still going for what should have been a lot of "yep" replies.

 

[Flintty]

I voted yes because the first party launch games are disappointing. But they usually are. Still buying the shit out of it day one though, as I always do.

 

[Hudo]

I can tell you in terms of mechanics, bug fixes, from that making a racing game can be done in less time than that of something like Last of us. Reason is there is more conceptional design that happens. A licensed car game gets the car scans if they have permission from the dealers. They dont have to drive out and scan the car. Those official pics, sometimes scans are given to them.

Not saying they dont work as hard, I'm saying there are way more factors at play in terms of getting the game to gold, and that includes time of conception to production. Production on a game like LOU is longer on average. And that would be because of the time it takes for rigging, animators, mo-cap scenes, then there;s the actual game code. Which with all those variables even within a npc can cause major bugs and issues during production.

When your working on a car game, there are less variables to make your game buggy as hell. But difference is in the amount of content a car game has to make which is substantial. But a lot of that is contracted out now.

LOU had to contract people up to 1500 workers just to get the game finished. If that says anything about varying variables that can destroy your game code/build.

Well, I could tell you the same but for a racing game. It seems we have had similar dev experience, just for different genres. Big projects are always complex and a lot of things can go wrong. In your cinematic game, there are a lot of things happening with the animation system (among other things), how it blends animations together, how they are chosen and adapted to the world, etc. I understand. In a racing game, there are a lot of things happening that are (unfortunately?) not directly visible to the player like temperature-based tire deformation and degradation, different weight factors for your fluid in the tank, models for air resistance, models for simulating physical behavior with the surface type, etc (among other things).

I have actually forgotten why the argument shifted to a contest which game is "harder" to make, which is kinda a stupid/fruitless conversation when it comes to AAA projects anyway. So let's leave it at that.

 

[truth411]

Hey Ryan you forgot to name the ps5 aswell you scumbag the ps5 has no games aswell to spend 500 fucking bucks on it aswell asshole

Ummm... Demon Souls?

 

[Esppiral]

It's like saying there is no need to upgrade your PC because there is no game that takes advantage of it, it will allow you to play your existing games with better performance and visuals and it will future proof you for upcoming next generation games, stop with this narrative already.

 

[Hendrick's]

Tetris Effect? A slightly modified Tetris Effect that came out for PS4 years ago?

It's Tetris, it's been out for decades, but the addition of online play is huge for me as a big Tetris fan. Looking forward to this game.

 

[supernova8]

With the recent acquisitions that MS has made we should get a blowout of amazing exclusives in the next 2 years.

MS knows they will get beat by Sony again when it comes to exclusives in the beginning of this gen. That’s why they are mainly focusing on games pass and xcloud because they are using that to stay a float until the exclusive titles are ready.

Well yeah IF they have Game Pass AND a huge blowout of exclusive titles (available on Game Pass at no extra cost) then that's when a lot more people start to get interested.

 

[Vawn]

we should get a blowout of amazing exclusives in the next 2 years

I'm getting serious deja vu.

 

[WakeTheWolf]

It's why I'm sticking to PC but to someone who doesn't have the budget for a gaming pc it's a very good option.

As for PS5 they have new experiences but I don't feel like playing Tom Holland or Jayden smith in my games or angry capable female it's each to their own I feel Sony really screwed over their Japanese market though

 

[thismeinteil]

I'm getting serious deja vu.

It's amazing how much time MS wasted this gen. They could have spent it getting ready to release one of their best consoles and launch lineups. I mean they had plenty of time, as their exclusive output this gen slowed to a drip. Instead they are pulling the same thing they have done all gen long, "just wait a little longer (1-2 years), the great exclusives are on the way."

And Xbox fans are still ok with this? Demand better, guys.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Don't underestimate the amount of work involved in a racing game, especially if said game involves licensed assets. That a whole minefield of development, right there.

GT maybe, not Forza

 

[A Rifter in Space]

PS5 has the same problem. Both launch lineups are a joke with maybe one good game that doesn't justify the purchase by far.

 

[Vawn]

PS5 has the same problem. Both launch lineups are a joke with maybe one good game that doesn't justify the purchase by far.

I am personally quite excited for PS5's launch day, launch window and 2021.

Launch Day:
Demon's Souls
Godfall
Spider-Man Remastered
Spider-Man Miles Morales
Astro's Playroom
Sackboy
Destruction All-Stars

Launch Window:
Ratchet and Clank
Kena: Bridge of Spirits
Ghostwire Tokyo
Returnal
Deathloop

Announced for 2021:
Horizon Forbidden West
God of War Ragnarok
Final Fantasy XVI

Compared to every other PlayStation launch, that's a huge improvement.

 

[MasterCornholio]

PS5 has the same problem. Both launch lineups are a joke with maybe one good game that doesn't justify the purchase by far.

I honestly don't believe the PS5 has the same issue. Plus then there's the rest of 2021 to worry about.

 

[GHG]

It's like saying there is no need to upgrade your PC because there is no game that takes advantage of it, it will allow you to play your existing games with better performance and visuals and it will future proof you for upcoming next generation games, stop with this narrative already.

??

Most people only upgrade their gaming PC when something comes out that their existing hardware can't or struggles to play.

Hence lots of people upgraded their PC around the time of the release of games like Crysis, Flight Sim, the witcher 3, etc and I'm sure many more will do so for Cyberpunk.

Being able to play older games at better quality levels is a bonus, not the primary driver.

 

[yurinka]

No, it‘s an entirely new game according to the article.

Xbox Series X Launches this November with Thousands of Games Spanning Four Generations - Xbox Wire

Today, we announced updates to Halo Infinite’s launch timing. Our vision at Xbox and 343 Industries has always been to deliver the most ambitious Halo game ever for our fans, while also balancing the team’s well-being. To do that, we will need some more time to finish the critical work...

news.xbox.com

It's exactly the same Tetris Effect game but they added a new multiplayer mode.

MS doesn't allow indies to release games later than in other console unless they come with extra content and a new name (what indies traditionally do is to release DLC and bundle it with the Xbox version probably with a new name, so it counts as a new game so it doesn't count as beng released late on Xbox).

 

[Reptars Revenge]

Dont worry there will be another geometry wars hidden gem in there

 

[ReBurn]

I am personally quite excited for PS5's launch day, launch window and 2021.

Launch Day:
Demon's Souls
Godfall
Spider-Man Remastered
Spider-Man Miles Morales
Astro's Playroom
Sackboy
Destruction All-Stars

Launch Window:
Ratchet and Clank
Kena: Bridge of Spirits
Ghostwire Tokyo
Returnal
Deathloop

Announced for 2021:
Horizon Forbidden West
God of War Ragnarok
Final Fantasy XVI

Compared to every other PlayStation launch, that's a huge improvement.

People keep tossing up this list like it speaks for itself. I don't understand it.

When I read this list the $500 investment doesn't become worthwhile until we get to the 2021 list. Demons Souls is pretty, but it's not new. We did that two generations ago. Miles Morales is on PS4. Nothing else on launch day is worth the $500 investment. Ratchet and Clank is nice, but is it a system seller? I'm fine with waiting until next year to play everything from 2020.

The 2021 list is where it becomes compelling for me. But if the list excites you then I sincerely hope that you have fun.

 

[Kagey K]

The fact is that, if you decide to buy a console down the road you will get all the games that released before it, and those that released after.

Everyone wants to say game X or game Y is why they bought a console, but let’s be honest we all want it just to have it.

It’s not like the game we want is going to disappear in 2 years when we buy it, (and it may seem shittier after better games come out)

But for now this is the fight, and either you bought it or you didn’t.

i am down to 2 series X and 1 PS5 that I swore I was holding for me, but if the right price comes along I might just wait with the rest of you.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

The fact is that, if you decide to buy a console down the road you will get all the games that released before it, and those that released after.

Everyone wants to say game X or game Y is why they bought a console, but let’s be honest we all want it just to have it.

It’s not like the game we want is going to disappear in 2 years when we buy it, (and it may seem shittier after better games come out)

But for now this is the fight, and either you bought it or you didn’t.

It's true. Games like TLOU 2, Ghost of Tushima, Spider-Man and a few others are among the reasons I'm getting PS5. Haven't played any of their new stuff in a while, decided I could wait for PS5 and have a lot of things to play (traded in my Pro at the beginning of 2020 during a Gamestop deal). I totally wasn't planning on maybe not being able to get a PS5 at launch (I got a PS4 at launch, I figured I had this shit covered!). Same would go for XBOX, I plan to go prowling the stores when launch day hits, if I can't get a PS5 but can get an X I will, Gamepass will give me quite the library to play with.

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

I am personally quite excited for PS5's launch day, launch window and 2021.

Launch Day:
Demon's Souls
Godfall
Spider-Man Remastered
Spider-Man Miles Morales
Astro's Playroom
Sackboy
Destruction All-Stars

Launch Window:
Ratchet and Clank
Kena: Bridge of Spirits
Ghostwire Tokyo
Returnal
Deathloop

Announced for 2021:
Horizon Forbidden West
God of War Ragnarok
Final Fantasy XVI

Compared to every other PlayStation launch, that's a huge improvement.

The biggest issue for me having a PS4 Pro and PC is that Sackboy and Spiderman are cross gen and Godfall is on PC. That leave Demons Souls (don't enjoy souls games) and Destruction All-Stars, which could be fun, but not $570 fun.

Launch window, Kena is cross gen. Kena, Deathloop, and Ghostwire are all also PC. Really the only exclusive on the list that interests me is Returnal and it isn't dated. In fact none of them are dated except the launch date titles.

Late 2021 games - Horizon cross gen, GOW will more than likely be cross gen and FFXVI is projectes to come out on PC (plus it looked terrible).

Everything about these launches screams wait to me.

 

[Kagey K]

It's true. Games like TLOU 2, Ghost of Tushima, Spider-Man and a few others are among the reasons I'm getting PS5. Haven't played any of their new stuff in a while, decided I could wait for PS5 and have a lot of things to play (traded in my Pro at the beginning of 2020 during a Gamestop deal). I totally wasn't planning on maybe not being able to get a PS5 at launch (I got a PS4 at launch, I figured I had this shit covered!). Same would go for XBOX, I plan to go prowling the stores when launch day hits, if I can't get a PS5 but can get an X I will, Gamepass will give me quite the library to play with.

Using a PS5 for PS4 games, when you already own a PS4 seems weird, but do whatever, if it makes you happy.

Hopefully they enhance the bc for you.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Using a PS5 for PS4 games, when you already own a PS4 seems weird, but do whatever, if it makes you happy.

I don't currently own a PS4, it was traded in at the start of 2020 because I decided games like TLOU II would be better on PS5 and I believe they will be, honestly.

 

[Kagey K]

I don't currently own a PS4, it was traded in at the start of 2020 because I decided games like TLOU II would be better on PS5 and I believe they will be, honestly.

Well good luck to you then. Hopefully it works out.m

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Well good luck to you then. Hopefully it works out.m

So long as I can get PS5 or X I'll be fine. Don't wanna wait till 2021, I thought I'd be fine waiting but my PC is breaking down hard on me, I dare not do anything with it besides run web browses and listen to music, it could simply explode at this point. Basically the only games I'm playing until I get a new console are phone games, pity me.

edit - prolly gonna try playing older games/indie games, though, see if my PC can handle it

 

[Zoro7]

It's Tetris, it's been out for decades, but the addition of online play is huge for me as a big Tetris fan. Looking forward to this game.

Lol you’re paying 500 dollars for a machine and this is one of your most hyped games??!! Thanks for the laugh this morning.

 

[Rolla]

At this point there must be some strategic calculation by Microsoft's marketing team, that we simply can't fathom. I saw a social media post that detailed how every console showcased games well before launch with each generation.

I'm still hopeful we see XBOX's marketing pitch to the wider public. But like many, I'm confused as to why it's taken them this long.

 

[evanft]

He's not wrong. The Series X launch lineup and even launch window lineup is laughable.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I bought Series S basically because it looked nice. I don't even have a TV

PS launch is stronger for sure. What I find odd though, is that for some reason MS tends to show too much CG on their events, unlike PS or Bethesda.

But well it seems for this launch MS's is pushing GamePass(they for sure expected Halo Infinite on launch). Considering that in the latest interview Phil said that they consider an additional subscription level and TV stick (I would subscribe just for fun). Though I wonder - are those TV sticks are really that popular? I mean always thought that people use TV cables and Internet (considering that smart TVs have apps)?

 

[ZywyPL]

I bought Series S basically because it looked nice. I don't even have a TV

 

[TBiddy]

Though I wonder - are those TV sticks are really that popular? I mean always thought that people use TV cables and Internet (considering that smart TVs have apps)?

Chromecast seems to be doing alright.

 

[ikbalCO]

Ryan is right but thats ok.

I always lean more to playstation due to where i'm from and till the bethesda exclusives hit, this will be the situation for the xbox family for a while.

but again, thats completely fine since microsoft strategy is mainly to offer value over exclusives.

and series family are freat value. both are.

getting into 4k/120-60fps gaming for 500USD and 1440p/120-60 fps gaming for 300USD is insane bang for anyones buck.

and with the gamepass and xcloud deal gets better and better.

also forcing exclusives to launch day (when most consoles will sell out regardless of games) afford risking quality and i'm happy they are sticking with their initial value plan.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Chromecast seems to be doing alright.

But it is for streaming no? As far as I recall you could stream from Chrome to TV directly no?
What I meant sticks like Amazon Fire or something (though I also not exactly sure what are they for)

 

[SirTerry-T]

GT maybe, not Forza

Nah fella, that's bullshit, sorry and just comes across as petty warring.
A licensed asset will have to go through the same legal and q&a checking regardless of the publisher OR target machine, whether that's Sony, Microsoft or bloody RadioShack.
The license holders are the guys that have the final say, until they are happy, your game code won't get to that gold disc.

 

[lock2k]

My body is sayin´ let's go
But my heart is sayin´ no

 

[VincentMatts]

- There is nothing here that tells me I need to spend 500$.

(after using it for a month and getting used to the load times and how much better everything is)

- I definitely dont wanna go back to current gen.

Oh yeah, im sure hes not gonna have one at home on day 1.

 

[Barry Burton]

It's not a good lineup. The Medium would have been nice to have on launch day, but at least it's still coming this year.

Granted, if it wasn't for Demon's Souls, the PS5 lineup would be just as unappealing. The PS4/XBO launch lineups were really bad, and not much has changed this time around. DeS is the biggest difference, along with Cyberpunk releasing around the same time.0

Ideally (for me) CP2077 will look/run a little bit better on the Series X than PS5, and I'll have that on the XSX and Demon's on the PS5 to play through Nov/Dec.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Someone mentioned how launch day consoles sell out no matter what. I was wondering how true that would be without scalpers though. And even with scalpers I was wondering what's the threshold, how many units can they create before they have enough to meet demand. part of me thinks it should be criminal that people are getting ripped off by scalpers because they need the new console for their bratty kids. Another part of me thinks those people made their own decisions and have to live with them. The second part of me might just be because I feel like a hypocrite because I'm someone who scalped their PS4 launch day version. Basically when the pre-orders went up I hit pre-order on Amazon and in the months leading up to launch when it became clear how much I could get for it on eBay I sold someone the console which basically meant I just had to change the shipping address on it. I then waited a few months and got one of my own when they were readily available. Part of me feels like I shouldn't have done that, but if someone's willing to pay for that how big of a deal is it and it's not like I took up two pre-orders or more. The way I looked at it was if someone was willing to pay me more money than I was willing to pay for the console then I might as well let them. Because if they were only willing to pay me the amount of console cost then I would have just kept the pre-order and had the console on launch day. I guess my real problem is with people who scalp a whole bunch of copies. Like I'm clearly not taking a principled stand but I still feel like there's a point where it becomes much scummier and I would really like for these console manufacturers to come up with plans for how to deal with stuff like this. Even if they did something crazy like exclusively working through GameStop and you need a GameStop membership and through that GameStop membership you can only buy one of each launch day console and then after that your account isn't allowed to buy another one for like 60 days or something. I'd be totally in favor of something radical like that. But so long as it doesn't exist all you can really do is try to shame people for taking advantage.

 

[FrankWza]

or bloody RadioShack.

dude, you’re stuck in fucking chickentown

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Nah fella, that's bullshit, sorry and just comes across as petty warring.
A licensed asset will have to go through the same legal and q&a checking regardless of the publisher OR target machine, whether that's Sony, Microsoft or bloody RadioShack.
The license holders are the guys that have the final say, until they are happy, your game code won't get to that gold disc.

That doesn't mean that they have the same level of attention to details and technical requirements... The only thing I would say Forza seems to do better is the road and grass textures.

Car paint.. it doesn't look like paint (it looks good, just not like what it should look like)
Interior details... Too much missing, low poly all over the place
Exterior details, same as the inside, it just doesn't offer the same level of details


As you said, the manufacturer sign off, but they don't make the game.

 

[Md Ray]

I agree.

 

[onQ123]

See I wasn't tripping

Something feels off about Xbox Series X unveiling , a month later & it still don't feel like a next generation console was unveiled

As much as people hated the Xbox One unveiling with all the TV , TV , TV stuff & Kinect 2.0 it still felt like something new compared to Xbox 360 good or bad. But with the Xbox Series X unveiling they was more like this is the new Xbox it play Xbox games but better than the older Xbox. I...

www.neogaf.com

As much as people hated the Xbox One unveiling with all the TV , TV , TV stuff & Kinect 2.0 it still felt like something new compared to Xbox 360 good or bad. But with the Xbox Series X unveiling they was more like this is the new Xbox it play Xbox games but better than the older Xbox.


I kinda feel like this was intentional on Microsoft behalf making new console launches less of a big event & more of a biennial upgrade to fit your needs.
This could be a good thing for Xbox if they can push the message that if you buy a Xbox game you're not stuck with the hardware that it was released with .


Less about the new console generation but more about the extension of the software beyond generations.


Xbox games vs PS4 , PS5 , PS6 , PS7 games