• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Scalpers struggling to sell RTX 4080 cards, now ‘graciously’ offering them at MSRP | Retailers refuse to refund

SLB1904

Banned
Honestly for me the worst thing about these cards is the size and not tge price. I hate how big they are, they just ugly. I hope nvidia manages to reduce the size on the next models
 

brian0057

Banned
Honestly for me the worst thing about these cards is the size and not tge price. I hate how big they are, they just ugly. I hope nvidia manages to reduce the size on the next models
With those sizes and ludicrous prices, It's never been easier to wait for a price drop, buy old or used, or maybe even go with a console.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fuz

GHG

Gold Member
Pretty much Econ 101. Then again they appear to think the scalpers function as a monopoly or a cartel. (With no evidence btw)

People love a villain and always need to find someone or something to blame.

There's no such thing as a perfectly balanced economy, there's always a constant tug of war between supply/demand. But some people are naive enough to think that if scalpers didn't exist then it would make things perfectly balanced. If scalpers aren't there to take advantage of high demand or supply shortages then the companies who make the products will simply put their prices up to take advantage of the situation.
 

Gamer79

Predicts the worst decade for Sony starting 2022
People love a villain and always need to find someone or something to blame.

There's no such thing as a perfectly balanced economy, there's always a constant tug of war between supply/demand. But some people are naive enough to think that if scalpers didn't exist then it would make things perfectly balanced. If scalpers aren't there to take advantage of high demand or supply shortages then the companies who make the products will simply put their prices up to take advantage of the situation.
You sound like a scalper. All that bs you just said is compete crap. They are taking advantage of global shortages. The scalpers are snakes and help no one. They make a bad situation so much worse.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CLW

GHG

Gold Member
You sound like a scalper. All that bs you just said is compete crap. They are taking advantage of global shortages. The scalpers are snakes and help no one. They make a bad situation so much worse.

Of course they are, and if they didn't then someone else would. It's how economies have functioned from day one. How do you think commodities get priced?

And for reference no, I'm not a scalper, just a realist.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Yes, of course. At MSRP, they would've flown out the window.
But let them compete with scalpers on pricing and now people with high end cards already on their rigs will think "maybe I don't need to upgrade right now" and leave those cards to those willing and able to buy them.

Now scalpers will have to lower their prices if they don't wanna lose money.
Then retailers will have to lower their prices in turn to not lose customers to scalpers.
And the cycle repeats until the price goes down to MSRP or close enough.

Scalpers can't really influence retail pricing, ever. Because their source of stock is retail and to make money they have to sell at above retail pricing. If they buy too much of something or overestimate demand they might temporarily undersell retail, but to such a limited extent that retail would never alter course because of it.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
If scalpers aren't there to take advantage of high demand or supply shortages then the companies who make the products will simply put their prices up to take advantage of the situation.

This doesn't even make sense. Companies will price goods as high as possible depending on their sales targets (they might choose a lower price to facilitate greater overall sales), regardless of if scalpers exist or not. LOL

If companies matched scalper prices they could make higher margins but would do scalper volumes too (next to nothing in the grand picture).
 

GHG

Gold Member
This doesn't even make sense. Companies will price goods as high as possible depending on their sales targets (they might choose a lower price to facilitate greater overall sales), regardless of if scalpers exist or not. LOL

If companies matched scalper prices they could make higher margins but would do scalper volumes too (next to nothing in the grand picture).

No.

Companies price their products in accordance with price elasciticy. If they have to price a product too far down the demand curve which would result in diminished or negative margins then they will opt to not sell the product or adapt the product accordingly. Sales targets are a result of this work. Good and highly profitable companies don't set sales targets before doing the underlying economic analysis.

Unforseen supply shortages create a shift in the supply curve which then has implications for the products demand at a set price - the demand increases. Scalpers or no scalpers that demand increase is already there and will be taken advantage of. It might not occur immediately but as long as supply remains an issue it will happen eventually. Graph 2 below:

market_equilibrium_g12.gif


We are still in the graph 2 scenario. Hence hardware manufacturers and vendors around the world are increasing their prices. The scalpers' influence is not diminishing because of an increase in supply, their influence is diminishing because companies have adjusted their prices further up the demand curve to compensate for the reduced supply.
 
Last edited:

Topher

Gold Member
This doesn't even make sense. Companies will price goods as high as possible depending on their sales targets (they might choose a lower price to facilitate greater overall sales), regardless of if scalpers exist or not. LOL

If companies matched scalper prices they could make higher margins but would do scalper volumes too (next to nothing in the grand picture).

Scalpers thrive when the MSRP is underpriced. Demand is higher than projected and the price point should be higher than it is.

Edit: GHG GHG explained it much better than I did.
 
Last edited:

DaGwaphics

Member
@ GHG GHG I was referring to your position that companies were making decisions based on scalpers (you said that IF scalpers were not there to take advantage THEN companies would). When the reality is that the companies would take advantage if they could regardless of scalpers. Ultimately, the companies would prefer to get the margins for themselves.

And certainly potential sales volume is a consideration in pricing. The cheapest models of cars are typically sold at negative margins because there is a direct correlation between the number of those units sold and the sales of more expensive, more profitable models (via brand building and consumer loyalty) plus the sales volume they get there supports the brands service network after the sale. And there are many, many more examples where pricing isn't nearly as simplistic as you implied.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Scalpers thrive when the MSRP is underpriced. Demand is higher than projected and the price point should be higher than it is.

Edit: GHG GHG explained it much better than I did.

Obviously, scalpers thrive on products with high demand and some headroom between the retail price and what fools will pay for the product. But still, if retail matched that pricing they would reduce their customers to just those fools that typically purchase from scalpers and reduce sales volume considerably. That reduced volume would drastically alter the backend figures (greatly increasing production costs per unit and so on). It almost sounds like you think Sony would have sold the same number of PS5s if they matched the scalper pricing, but I can all but guarantee you that they would not have sold a fraction of the real number because the majority of buyers did not and would not pay those prices.

Nvidia is the living embodiment of that right now. They have basically scalped the 4080 themselves, they will get higher margins but will sell through substantially fewer units as a result. What effect continuing in that direction across all future lines and skus would have on their brand long-term remains to be seen (I doubt it would be good).
 
Last edited:

Fuz

Banned
Honestly for me the worst thing about these cards is the size and not tge price. I hate how big they are, they just ugly. I hope nvidia manages to reduce the size on the next models
Am I the only one bothered more by power consumption?
Or are my worries unfounded for some reason?
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Honestly for me the worst thing about these cards is the size and not tge price. I hate how big they are, they just ugly. I hope nvidia manages to reduce the size on the next models
a solution to this is to buy one of those watercooled models made by other manufacturers, some of them reduce the size massively at the cost of you needing to install another radiator. check it


OFC with that cost you're not gonna be able to afford it....
 

Gamer79

Predicts the worst decade for Sony starting 2022
Of course they are, and if they didn't then someone else would. It's how economies have functioned from day one. How do you think commodities get priced?

And for reference no, I'm not a scalper, just a realist.
If that was the case, ps5 and series x would of sold for $800 during the shortages. The simple fact is greedy assholes were making a fortune by cheating the system. (using bots and what not) I refuse to pay over retail but there are enough idiots out there feeding the scalpers.

The true value of an item is whatever someone is willing to pay. However when they use bots to buy up all the stock to artificially inflate prices, it's a piece of shit practice.

Scalping is negative no matter how you look at it.
 

GHG

Gold Member
And certainly potential sales volume is a consideration in pricing. The cheapest models of cars are typically sold at negative margins because there is a direct correlation between the number of those units sold and the sales of more expensive, more profitable models (via brand building and consumer loyalty) plus the sales volume they get there supports the brands service network after the sale. And there are many, many more examples where pricing isn't nearly as simplistic as you implied.

Of course it's not, but there's a strategic element to it if you are to take on a risky endeavor of selling a product at break-even or even negative margins. However most companies are not in a position to do this unless they can be certain the sale of that product will almost guarantee increased sales in a higher margin business area as a result (see console hardware sales at low or negative margins leading to software sales at high margins). You mentioned cars, cars are a low margin business, always have been but that's also why the financial health of many auto-makers is so poor.

But we are specifically talking about GPU's here were gross margins of >50% are typical for this industry.
 

calistan

Member
What about the Apple model of cutting out retailers almost entirely? Their products are in high demand, but I don’t see much of a scalper problem with Apple stuff because they don’t allow bots to scoop up all the stock from countless outlets.

If you want to buy the latest Apple thing, you go on their website, pay the same price as everyone else, and it will tell you exactly when you’ll get it.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Obviously, scalpers thrive on products with high demand and some headroom between the retail price and what fools will pay for the product. But still, if retail matched that pricing they would reduce their customers to just those fools that typically purchase from scalpers and reduce sales volume considerably. That reduced volume would drastically alter the backend figures (greatly increasing production costs per unit and so on). It almost sounds like you think Sony would have sold the same number of PS5s if they matched the scalper pricing, but I can all but guarantee you that they would not have sold a fraction of the real number because the majority of buyers did not and would not pay those prices.

Nvidia is the living embodiment of that right now. They have basically scalped the 4080 themselves, they will get higher margins but will sell through substantially fewer units as a result. What effect continuing in that direction across all future lines and skus would have on their brand long-term remains to be seen (I doubt it would be good).

No, that's not what I said at all. I didn't say anything about matching scalper prices. That would be absurd. Scalper pricing is the extreme. 4080 pricing isn't even close to what scalpers were selling the 3080 for. Yes, 4080 needs a price adjustment, certainly, but considering the 7090 XTX is sold out at $1000, 4080 isn't that far off where it should be.
 
Top Bottom